Cueball

Lovely Manitou. Secret or not, that is something to aspire to.

At least in the UK, taking the oath isn't a requirement. It's mostly been superceded by agreeing to good medical practice as outlined by the GMC (General Medical Council). I suppose the sharing of money with patients has fallen out of favour with docs since Hippocrates' time, amongst other requirements. https://www.bmj.com/content/355/bmj.i6629

Just adding to what Michael and 3Bob and others have said, on the heads/eyes facing each other — why this is always the case on the caduceus (but maybe not always shown as such in the yogic illustrations) is Hermes role is the reconciler and the mediator in wars, trade negotiations and relationships of various kinds. He embodies the ’solution of antinomies’, especially between male and female (e.g. Two of Cups in Tarot), and the copulation of the snakes is the "secret intercourse”. Here is Hermes talking to Asclepius (he of the one-snaked staff):

ilumairen, interesting... when is rebooting a willful choice? Can you saw off the branch you're sitting on through an act of will? Given the choice, don't we end up just doing a bit of gentle topiary around the twigs and leaves to make things look tidier?

jadespear / Steve, I feel the paradox is important... even though the undertaking requires effort the fruit of the undertaking does not. In terms of Krishnamurti in particular, I do think he was a very rare being but it was dialogue and observation that he hoped would bring about the necessary shift from self to self-less and he didn't refer to anything about his own ‘process’. Which I find curious... I am not sure one arrives at that insight through mundane methods and indeed perhaps K himself didn’t either. (Even he wondered towards the end of his life whether, despite 60 years of talking and teaching, anyone else had really ‘got it’) It might be that the raft can be discarded when you reach the other shore, but it is an extraordinary thing to claim no raft is needed for your own crossing. Anyway just an oddity I find myself returning to these days.

What Krishnamurti tried to awaken in people via serious dialogue and looking seemed (to me at least) at odds with the process which he underwent and which look to be rather extraordinary and high level initiations. There is some criticism on this point that the guruless approach and freedom from the known wasn’t the whole story in terms of his own evolution. In terms of dzogchen master / pathless land advocate, if you haven’t seen the videos of CTR and K there's a series on YouTube. I find them quite odd... not least because it's hard to tell if they were relating to each other in any way, an audience, both or something entirely other.

Great stuff, thanks Yueya and Rex.

Mark I did read your piece with interest but I’m no mathematician so sets and completed infinity went a bit over my head I’m afraid. What makes a completed infinite as opposed to, say, ’incomprehensible or immeasurable’ which may not be equitable in mathematical or logical terms? My understanding of the Pali excerpt is that perfect wisdom — if it can be said to be grounded at all — is grounded in the non-phenomenal. It is knowing/seeing that is not borne of the aggregates/skandhas. So cessation is realisation of, or realisation beyond, the illusory nature of the aggregates…. thus only intent and action which appears to originate from a self (atta vs anatta) is said to cease. But I’m not a Buddhist practitioner so these are just my interpretations. In terms of cosmogony (and also praxis) there’s more in common with Mahayana and Vajrayana than Theravada. Obviously in those vehicles you have both action through intent and accomplishment. E.g. generating merit and tantra / deity yoga etc form the core of various practices, and are aids to realisation. This seems to hold true for both lay practitioners enmeshed in samsara, and also enlightened beings. So I suppose some of these same conflicts must also arise when comparing the original Pali texts to the later turnings of the wheel…? “Eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge (of good and evil) is precisely acting through intent, for good or for evil”… well the gnostic approach of which GThomas is a part does have a very different view on the tree of knowledge compared to the canonical version — especially with respect to realisation. And in the nitty gritty it really does become difficult to say much about who, or what, is doing the accomplishing.

The womb that has not conceived is the perfect power, the eternal aeon etc which precedes all but nevertheless does not give birth... "the incomprehensible Womb, the unrestrainable and immeasurable Voice..." (Trimorphic Protennoia). Also: "Wisdom, who is called barren, is the mother of the angels." Parallels here with the perfection of wisdom in the Prajnaparamita sutras where wisdom also is attributed to the female, but it is not conditioned phenomena, thus it doesn’t conceive or procreate in any conventional sense. And yet it is the mother of all… ‘perfect wisdom’ that “gives birthless birth to all buddhas.”

Yes the 'body' in 80 refers to the material body. Translation from the Coptic: "Whoever has come to know the world has found the (dead) body. But whoever has found the (dead) body, of him the world is not worthy." It’s the same as logion 56.The one who has discovered the world has in fact discovered death — a theme repeated throughout the scriptures (e.g. "This world is a corpse-eater" / Gospel of Philip).

On the subject of nothing to do, no one to do it after experiencing an 'awakening'... the situation could be quite the opposite:

Rome defeated by Mohamed? It's a fair kop.

If I recall correctly, according to David Godman, Ramana Maharshi insisted that Arunachala was Shiva himself. Not a manifestation, an emanation or a domicile... he was quite clear that it was Shiva. I particularly like the story of Mastan Swami and the gate to Arunachala: http://sri-ramana-maharshi.blogspot.co.uk/2008/09/discovering-mastan.html

That made me laugh! Maybe you could enter this: https://www.theonion.com/monk-gloats-over-yoga-championship-1819563855