GreytoWhite

Yup, I personally like the Yin bagua lines best my first bagua love but will learn from anyone who has something to teach and can demonstrate their skill.

Yeah I've been talking with my cousin about Burning Man but we may go to a different festival because of exactly that - no tickets.

Aye it is extremely expensive for many people. I would like to go next year - we shall see what arises but I'm going to some festival or another! It's been too long.

There are different lines of bagua Gerard. Some lines don't use mud wading step at all. I agree though daily practice of these things for years will truly allow one to examine it and understand whereas dabbling with something only gives a practitioner a glimpse.

Yup, most weapons were either slightly modified tools or tools reforged. Why not use a big ass sword to cut through wheat? Makes sense, you don't have to hammer it down and reshape it later.

So many weapons in gong fu were farming tools. Nanchaku were basically modified wheat flails. The da dao was meant for cutting bales of wheat. The list goes on but you get the idea, use what's at hand.

Neil Gaiman's American Gods China Mieville's Perdido Street Station Tom Robbins' Another Roadside Attraction

Here I thought you might be talking about these guys. http://www.greendragonsociety.com/

Aye, I am looking firstly for a functional martial art as that aspect is dying IMO. These arts need to be preserved and not just for qi cultivation - sifu's gong fu brother Ben Hill Bey got beaten and handily by a Muay Thai fellow on video a while back. One of the major issues was that he was using circle walking in the ring instead of as the training exercise it is meant to be. Some of us have real world fight experience and it's pretty difficult to use these arts in comparison to other arts like judo or boxing because of the difference between solo training and actual usage. Thankfully I have a few friends and my cousin is training to go pro for MMA so I have a range of people to spar with and see what works for me and what doesn't. I've found the footwork of bagua to be extremely effective against wing chun but the stepping shuai aspects of the art to be very difficult to pull off against friends who have trained jujutsu, and damned near useless when fighting an experienced ecstatic dancer/street fighter. While I'm by no means looking to compete I hope to coach someone in the future to contend on a wider stage. Right now I know I suck but the only way to get better is to keep using it and polishing the mirror. The exercises from the general's xingyi are quite effective at body changing I agree and what it's doing to my ribs and middle dantian is corrective and quite painful at times. The stepping is very different than what I was used to from taiji. Power seems to flow down the body then to the feet and then back up again in a very noticeable fashion but with little focus on lower dantian and greater focus on the solar plexus and middle dantian relationship. Paul Andrews' of Xingyi Academy's line also focuses more on the area above the qihai point and closer to the solar plexus. http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23442&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=34c0db06053733da05866f07215aead2&start=15#p394697 My Yin bagua teacher taught something similar but more lower dantian triggered he largely wanted to keep me in the bear and lion forms of Xie Peiqi's system. He was a very martially oriented guy and was sure to show every move's applications and usage from the beginning. From what I have read the bagua we do is Jiang Rong Qiao lineage but Kenny Gong's flavor of it seems to require the xingyi to power the bagua. I'm excited to learn more and am keeping a private journal as I go that I'm hoping sifu will let me release. I've been looking over different Jiang practitioners videos on YouTube the past few days trying to discern patterns.

Yesterday in class sifu got me started on some bagua partner walking with another student who had learned from sifu's gong fu brother. We are learning Kenny Gong's xingyi and bagua. Whilst we were walking he said in a Bronx accent, "You're doin' that mud steppin'. That shit ain't gon' work with me unless you've been walking the circle every day for two years and ain't busted a nut in seven. It's good for solo practice but ya gotta natural step when you're going against someone." He definitely had a more refined structure than I do and at one point after we had slowed down and I was getting dizzy from walking longer than I was used to I bounced off away. It was definitely an automatic reactive peng thing as the issue lied in my own body - he had done little if anything other than continue to hold his stance. I had started focusing on mud stepping about two years ago when I went through the beginnings of B.K. Frantzis' Bagua Mastery Program. Having started that program and then going back to a natural step focused method - mud stepping is difficult to unlearn after yards and yards of straight three and four part walking and many turns of the circle with the energy postures. My experience previously was in the Xie Peiqi Yin style bagua and it wasn't until I started doing the Bagua Mastery Program that mud stepping even entered into my formula. I now need to remove it as it's an obvious impediment to partner work and learning this style's walking. One of sifu's other students is also studying with Chris Matsuo and Ray Carbullido when he goes to Hawai'i. He says it is difficult to keep the Wu family influence out of his bagua from sifu. Mud wading step has its place but it is not as versatile in a live environment, one can keep the feeling of the mud wading in the natural step and gain the benefits. I'm a big proponent of the Yin style and see how some lines keep certain things from that versus Cheng. Devlin Glenn talks about the various ways of stepping in the Xie Peiqi lineage in the link below and I think it's very interesting. One of these days I'll study with Andrew Nugent-Head. http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?p=379719&sid=af7c31806aa13b44c24439f14ff39c08#p379785 Adam Hsu's lineage of Yin bagua does something called square stepping that I find interesting but haven't learned in person yet.

Yup I've seen similar things and done them to people myself. My first taiji teacher was 4'10" and 105lbs. He picked me up and tossed me about 10 feet with little effort and that's why I wanted to learn taiji. After a few months learning from him I watched him palm strike without windup into a guy's chest and watched the guy who was 6'3" crumple. I'm not saying that internal isn't different, that's it's not effective. Rather it is NOT the be all, end all that people make it out to be here and other places. I've only met one person so far whose skill internally is such that he has truly embodied it without effort and can teach it. I'm learning from him now. We have to remember that this is a consensus reality and that there are others whose development is different, who have equally strong will and/or energy, and will not always comply. This is why taiji players are often embarrassed when they fight - they have a different skillset but that does not make them invincible. Also, sometimes a fight is just fucking fun.

I call shenanigans. I've driven away more than my share of cowards with a look. However, there may come a time when you face someone who is skilled but practices something else entirely, whose only interest IS fighting, not the internals. Then you have to throw down because their own inner energy is high enough.

Yeah I don't think you'll get much understanding about Dan Harden via reading. Simply enough, when someone has incredible skill but is not well known then people will attack when they don't know their own inadequacy. Enough people have been humbled by the man to study with him. My teacher is somewhat similar having said, "It looks like I'll have to embarrass him as he's getting verbally aggressive."

A teacher that is a fighter worth his salt should teach you fighting applications from the beginning regardless of how well one has "internalized" taiji. Simple internal power generation methods that are quick to assimilate and use exist. It's a style of gong fu like many others from Northern China that has soft and hard training. Its origins are humble, so much so that the literal translation of its birthplace is Chen family ditch. Some groups after its exposure to the capital took the soft side of it and focused on that. Taiji is not the Grand Ultimate - that's a later addition of marketing and cultural milieu. How many real fights have you been in much less since you've started learning taiji? How many tussles have you been in with others outside of your school that have skill? I mix it up with people that do wing chun, jujutsu, Shaolin, boxing, and other styles of gong fu. Injuries happen in real life and the super duper optimal internal is not always possible. Self-development and an actual fight are different things. What will you fall back on when you are too injured to internal? While a good chunk of my time is spent here in front of the monitor every day I am not just a keyboard cowboy. I grew up in one of the most violent places in the USA and while I may fight and lose at least I fight with my arts. The xingyi I am learning now is not something I can muscle, I am learning the theory of its power generation. This is not the regular ol' xingyi you see on YouTube - this is the general's art taught by a true sage. My teacher has said that he's just continuing my education, not making me go through all of elementary school again.

For the OP I'll say that boxing and judo when trained properly are not very dangerous and can teach you some very useful skills as a precursor to internal martial arts. If you are not physically fit already then the internal arts will take a lot longer to learn and use. Many train arts like boxing and judo too hard not understanding that there is a difference between training, sparring, and competition. If you're not going for competitive purposes there should be no reason for you be injured unless someone has made a mistake. Also taiji's original focus was cutting the legs off horses. Imagine a bunch of bandits on horseback are raiding the caravan you're guarding or are descending on your village. You have a guan dao in your hands. Is it better to wait for the horseman to rush into your space or meet them yourself? It takes less energy to swing a guan dao with enough force if you wait for them. Many forget that the empty hand is just training for the body - it's cutting people to pieces that was often the true applications of past masters' arts. Here is a version of the Chen taiji which is still not as openly taught. Eh? Taiji should be martially applicable from the start. It's outer form is very similar to Taizu Chang Quan, Shaolin Rou Quan, et cetera. So many martial applications but some won't work until a certain amount of neigong is burned into the spine. Others will become supercharged. Taiji is not just throws, close in grappling, and joint locks - it can also be a LONG striking art as well. The issue is largely a teacher's experience and focus. I am currently learning xingyi which is often considered the more aggressive sister of taiji and I'll say from my perspective that this line of the art is more internal than the Chen taiji I used to practice. Are you learning martial arts to be a fighter? If you have no real interest in fighting but only cultivation and health then don't bother putting the time in.

If you're in the Rochester area like the Mu Dong guys I'd recommend checking out I Liq Chuan. Ashe Higgs who I've met and was quite impressed by recently moved to Oswego.

Mmm... might be bullshido. Where do you live?

I much prefer this man's taiji. Having trained Chen the xiaojia aspect of his presentation is truly impressive.

I wouldn't know how to explain it, I gained the ability after taking agomelatine.

Sounds like a blast, wish I could make it. The Han family line is a treasure in the Yiquan world. IMO neijia gets no better than this.

Yes, you are supposed to keep the tongue to the roof of your mouth, bring your jaw forward slightly, and swallow slowly. This helps you find the pathways going down your throat to the dantian.

I help people regularly but still need vacations.

Hmmm... I've found some of my best energy gains to be after a good night's sleep. However, I'm still working in my dreams.

The Six Harmonies and Eight Methods are not taiji. The dantien is not usually focused on even if it is created. From the little I've exchanged with liuhebafa practitioners there is more focus on the five hearts and nine joints than dantien. It's a different shenfa, a different art, and a different focus.

I second the recommendation of Nelson Ma. Also liuhebafa is most likely a fusion of styles just not the wider known internal arts. http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13902