bodyoflight

B.O.L I'm getting confused?

 

Is the world devolving or evolving?

Why ask me? See with your own eyes

You know what's really funny?

There's so much politics going on in spirituality and among the highest levels of spiritual masters in this world too.

In fact, the level of "politics" in spirituality is much higher than the mundane level of politics found in the world's alphabet agencies, the world's governments and biggest MNCs in the world.

Cos the "politics" of spirituality involve the aims of opening up the minds/souls of the masses. They involve energy work and working agreements with parties other than humans born on this earth.

It is fcuking hysterical, it really is.

sunya, are there any tibetan ritual tools needed in the program?

I am talking about the dorje, the bell and possible the vajra as well.. thanks..

I don't necessarily agree that every syllable of the program is time and energy efficient but trekcho does seem rather useful with helping us progress on hindsight.

I've gotten into a similar tit for tat on another post. Ultimately the guy showed he knew what he was talking about and was willing to spend serious time on obtaining his goals. So all I could do was- go for it. Not that my permission is asked for, needed or wanted.

 

So honestly and peacefully, what are you doing and what do you expect from it? Don't run away from feedback. People here probably understand where you're coming from because we've been there ourselves.

 

Personally when a heavy hitter like Rawn Clark (a hermetic wizard, abardoncompanion.com) says he's had regular meeting in dreamspace with other real world people and they call each other later to confirm details, I believe him. We're talking about a very talented, dedicated person with decades of experience in a rather rigorous discipline (Bardon Hermetics).

 

Siddhis of the mind and body I'm relatively open to. Siddhis that defy gravity and other physical laws, not so much. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proofs.

 

Again in respect and out of curiosity, what are you doing?

 

 

Michael

Various things. I am lucky enough to meet and learn from teachers of various traditions and cross-reference their truths with each other. So yeah, I more or less understand what is true and what is false.

The topic of this thread is not about what I do however. I am just here to learn more knowledge, more wisdom and to evolve myself.

This thread, however, is about how lots of parents and grandparents all over the world whose ignorance have hindered the evolution of their children and grandchildren.

I once debated with a very high taoist master on the nature of the universe. He said that I was different from other people who have debated with him.

He said that although I have my own views and do not agree with everything he said, I remained very respectful and polite unlike other people who is very arrogant about what they think when debating with him. Those other people rudely criticize the taoist master flat out with the arrogance of their own views.

I told him it is because I have not verified my own truths 100% yet so how can I stamp my version of truths on the world?

What I can do however is to constantly challenge the truths of this world, to challenge not only other people's truths but also my own truths as well.

That is how we evolve cos the world is constantly evolving as well.

However, too many parents and grandparents think they know it all and expect their children/grandchildren to think the same outdated thoughts as them. It sickens me to see how the demon of ignorance rule in this world.

hm...

 

i don't know you. maybe i'll get to know you over the next few weeks or so, i don't know. but after reading this thread of yours, i can't for the life of me understand why you would PM me about what i teach. maybe you should do a search on my screen name. i don't pull punches or sugar coat my criticisms around here, and i have ZERO problem with telling people when they are NOT ready for something.

 

so it would seem to me that i would be last person you would want to contact with regard to teaching.

 

a school of cultivation is a knowledge community, and there are correct and incorrect assessments and answers within those communities. it's not all open to interpretation OR negotiation. if you were my student, i would tell you that your thought process and your attitude within this thread is flat-out wrong, and i would debate you and tear down your flawed reasoning, and you wouldn't go any further until you could either defeat my analysis or acknowledge where you were wrong. but the temperament you're displaying here suggests that maybe you wouldn't be able to get past it.

 

you're not entitled to ANYTHING that ANY teacher has to offer. PERIOD. if you had already accrued the necessary merits from previous lifetimes, then you wouldn't be knocking at those wrong doors, eh? no one else can keep you from your destiny, and if you're hungry enough, you should be willing to endure WHATEVER it takes. i might have you walk in sync with your breath for the first 6 months, and then add raising & lowering the arms the next 6 months. what you may not realize is that, while the other students may look like they're doing more advanced stuff, i might have recognized your natural gift and given you a challenge that would allow you to blow right past them, IF you had the temperament to endure it. but you wouldn't be in any position to judge my motives. now, maybe that's simply not the kind of student-teacher dynamic you want, but that doesn't make the teacher selfish or egotistical; just a poor fit for YOU.

 

sometimes wisdom looks like crazy.

 

 

also, here's an article i posted back in '07 with regard to foundation building. i'm a better writer today than i was then, but it still has relevance to this thread:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/3470-breathe-deep-embrace-simplicity/

Hundun, i have a question.. do you have a problem with students whose might have greater potential and higher intelligence than you?

you said you studied lots of systems and you have stripped those systems of its traditional wrappings and unnecessary elements..

in stripping those systems, how do you think the teachers who taught you would feel about you changing their systems due to the fact that you have greater potential and higher intelligence than them?

I am a heretic too and a master heretic at that .. the first rule of being a heretic however is that you must be very willing to change the rules.. not only for others but for yourself as well..

however, i get the feeling that you are very willing to change the rules of others but not the rules for yourself..

"There is no such thing as a smart human being for it is only a matter of time before their ideas are updated, changed or eradicated." - ZEITGEIST

Nobody's ideas and concepts last forever.. not yours nor mine.. that is the true path of a seeker cos enlightenment is an ever evolving path..

"The Older Generation has really screwed up this world.." This really is a contradiction in it's self, after all if it's as simple as that then we may as well have a go at the first caveman who lit a fire because you're guaranteed that someone became jealous and built a bigger fire than his neighbour, but who should be blamed, the first for the discovery of warmth or the second for working out that a bigger fire means more heat ?

 

There is a reason for everything and everything has a reason, the grandmother may well have said there that her granddaughter need not pray so hard but she may have also said that there are many ways to be thankful.

 

We must always try to remember that relying on our external senses alone can be dangerous when they are in control of our hearts.

the grandmother's ignorance is hindering the evolution of the granddaughter

enuff said

There is actually a better translation since that book came out. It is by Tony Duff.

 

Its called Wisdom Guru by Tony Duff. (Wisdom Guru is the english translation of yeshe lama).

 

At the time of that other thread, it was not known that the snowlion pub was flawed in a lot of ways. I hope I was not responsible for ralis spending $100 LOL.

hey alwayson, thank you for your prompt reply..

some members are already kind enough to offer me some great knowledge through Private Messaging..

I have learnt to always check my Private Messages from now on.. you never know when Santa Claus is gonna call.. LOL..

I didn't mean to offend, but friends and family are important. There are times we need others because its easy to fool ourselves. Plus they inject fun and drama into our lives. Its also important to be able to support oneself.

Offended?.. incredulous is more like it

Aliens and stuff, whether they're around or not, I don't know how much we can blame on them. We screw things up pretty well all by ourselves, no need for a X factor, alien or devil IMO.

As I said, I feel pretty incredulous that those who claim to know everything actually know very little, and those who know a lot keep their mouth shut.

 

Siddhis are different then a College degree. I can see my engineer friend do engineering work, same for a teacher friend, art person etc. I don't see people flying, walking on water, etc. Take India, they have a huge population of holy men, people who spend every waking hour in prayer and meditation. They're not floating around.

And that is where the buddhist view on attachment to your sensory senses come into play.

You see the world with your physical sight and you accrue false views about the world based on the very limited information gathered from your physical sight.

 

Bodyoflight, I'm not hindering human evolution though I'm flattered you think I'm that powerful. I enjoy being alone, and I enjoy being with friends and family. I need both for balance; we all get a little crazy sometimes.

 

Monkey see, monkey do.

 

I enjoy doing esoteric stuff, I've done unusual retreats, like Max's Kunlun, searched w/ a group for ET's in the desert, gone on Burns. I have acquaintances who are pretty far out and a good friend who talks to aliens regularly (she's a great teacher). Nothing wrong with reaching for the stars, but its very important to be grounded.

 

There is a difference between being grounded and being afraid of change.

 

The best can be both, head high, feet solid. If you're only into Siddhis and aliens you can get paranoid and your life can start to really suck. You begin to think its 'them' doing it to you. Its not, 'they' don't care about you, its the beginning of a psychotic episode and before it get too far its important to have friends to pull you back a bit.

 

Uh-huh.. I see.. Btw do you know the richest, most powerful (spiritually, financially, mentally or otherwise) and most evolved people on this earth are also only into Siddhis and aliens?

 

At 47 I've been involved in alternate culture for while. I've seen people crash and burn. Most get back on there feet. Some don't. You can do serious cultivation without problems but keep contact with others. Balance.

 

Michael

I have also seen a lot of new-agers who pretend to do spiritual work all for the sake of appearing cool enough so that they will find a spouse to love them or friends to accept them.

It is because they did not receive enough love when they were young and now that they are grown up, they would ignore the truth and love in themselves and seek to find the love which they lacked outside themselves.

Pretty pathetic, if you ask me.

"siddhis are just siddhis.. they don't belong to the CIA or buddhism or taoism anymore than the sun belonging to your or me.."

 

Agree! Interesting notion that the appropriation of such would be...oh wait

 

"as for the rest of your post, well if you have a more truthful version of human history than the one I have learnt over the years, I am all ears..."

 

"More truthful"

Well, ain't that a doozer

 

Hang around here enough and you'll find out all kinds of truths (and stuff, and cake)

Naruhodo!

At least, it is better than finding out all kinds of mistruths spewed by rats in other forums.

This forum is more truthful than most, I suppose and rats have a harder time surviving in here.

Namaste!

Please have a good week ahead! The SUN is shining so bright today my eyes hurt!

So then what is this thread about?

 

Anger is a HUGE impediment to spiritual development, as is pointing the finger outside of oneself. Those two things are very self destructive actions. It's a very hard lesson to learn, so I think telling you directly would be easier than finding out the hard way.

 

But I agree with you, it's not within my power to tell you how to be.

I am very disappointed at the state of things but hardly angry.. which posts of mine in this thread showed anger?..

It is a Snowlion pub. and they require proof one has had the transmission. I have a copy and it cost me over 100.00 with shipping. A bit too pricey! I loathe the fact that these people still cloak these teachings in such secrecy.

really 100 bucks? shucks.. i think i better forget about it then..

"The human race is among the most inferior races of sentient beings, if not the most inferior race itself."

 

Uh-oh. Now I'm offended.

 

However, you're possibly onto something Mr Bof. But I don't believe for a second that humans "are" inferior but that they've/we've/I've become that way

 

When/how/why? Many stories and theories around. Be careful which ones you believe and which you don't

 

And be especially careful WHY you choose some to believe and others not to be believe.

 

I'd say if you're looking for "CIA" style siddhis, go join the CIA, it's really that simple They probably teach the more hardcore stuff

siddhis are just siddhis.. they don't belong to the CIA or buddhism or taoism anymore than the sun belonging to your or me..

as for the rest of your post, well if you have a more truthful version of human history than the one I have learnt over the years, I am all ears..

I don't know the context of this thread or the level anyone is at but in my own experience when I first got interested in this area of spirituality I tried jumping into the highest meditations and tried to learn about all the highest practices I could find, reading all the advanced texts and material, but after many years of getting nowhere I have had to admit that what I need is work on the real bottom and foundations of development, which was and still is hard to face. All that I learned about the higher stuff may well serve me in good stead in the future but without healing and work on the level that im at right now it's not much use except as motivation. Seeing a psychotherapist was quite good at cutting through all the bullshit, I would do some high meditation think that I was developing some advanced spiritual attainment and balance but then when I would sit infront of the psychotherapist I would revert back into my usual confusion almost straightaway as he could see through any pretense quite easily which showed to me that I had got nowhere.

 

But back in the day if anyone had told me I wasn't ready for a teaching I would have thought they were just trying to put me down and stifle my development so I wouldn't have listened to them, so it was something I had to learn myself the hard way.

as i said, what's inappropriate for you may be very appropriate for other people.. it would be egoistical of you to judge what other people can or cannot achieve..

remember the 4-min mile? no one actually thought it was possible until roger did it.. so don't ever use your own experiences to judge what's possible or impossible.. no human have the authority to do that..

think about it..

Hi Body,

 

There will always be critics. Most wish to help but many don't know the 'best' way to do it so they do the best they can.

 

All I can say is that whatever it is you are doing, if it is helping you then 'keep on truckin'. You shouldn't be concerned where anyone else is along their path. It is where "you" are and if 'your' path is 'good' for you.

I am curious but never concerned about where anyone else is along their path. It is never my prerogative to tell others what they should or should not do. I give them options maybe even some warnings then send them along their way.

But there are some in here who dispenses advice with the attitude that they are the sole authorities on what's right or what's wrong. It sickens me.

I assume that you got this idea in the thread on the Online Practise Program.

 

First of all, may I suggest that you look at any given craft or study and ponder whether or not it is possible to skip ahead of the first lessons and to become a "master" overnight?

Secondly, if you determine that you can do so, what is the cause of that conclusion?

 

You seem to be making a host of assumptions about both the people here and the arts that you seem to be chasing after. Looking at the specific words you used(ego, selfishness and greed) to complain about the ones that, in your view, hinder your development, I would like you to search yourself to see whether or not the same qualities are behind your complaint.

You assumed wrong. I have been looking at many other threads as well.

There are some here who gives knowledge freely with the noble intent of helping others progress on their path asap.

Yet there are some others who would insist that other people follow their own structure of learning paradigm.

It would be egoistic to think that everyone is at the same level as one particular person. Some are faster in some areas. Some are slower in some areas.

Does one have the psychic ability to know the true potential of a person and how much he is able to handle? If not, then I think it would be egoistic to say that everyone should follow the same structure.

Don't always look at things from your point of view in relations to matters which are not your own. In my case, my path of progress is my own matter and it would be egoistic of anyone else to say how my path should be like or how fast my path should progress.

What's really heart-breaking is that there are brothers and sisters of light in here who, due to their ego, selfishness and greed, would prevent others from reaching the highest levels immediately.. and some of us do have the potential to reach the highest levels cos we have trained in our previous life-times..

It is like.. "oh we haven't got to your level yet so how can you leave the world without us?"

How sad is the state of affairs..

Hey guys, I saw a thread about Yeshe Lama Thogal teachings and I am wondering what is the actual title of that book? I googled it and nothing came up. If anyone can give me any hints, that would be good. Thanks.

I thought it was a fundamental principle of Taoism.

do you think being attached to a job, marriage, kids, procreation is "balanced"?

What is the Jamilian university of the ordained? Where is it from?

http://www.jamilian.org/

Nevada

You didn't address any of my points and instead just backpedaled and restated your beliefs. That's fine, but I asked for evidence. Where is it? I am curious. I never said it was impossible for non-Vajrayana practitioners to attain Rainbow Body. I just said I've never heard of it. All religions talk about an immortal soul or something similar, but this is not the Vajrakaya.

 

Anyway, for 99% of us it's a waste of time to talk about these things. Sure, it's interesting and fun and intriguing, but you won't make progress. Dzogchen isn't the best path. We have different conditions and capacities, and the best path is relative to each of us. What is best for someone else isn't best for you, so just because someone says Dzogchen is the highest and best and Rainbow Body is best is completely meaningless unless you have the capacity to practice Dzogchen.

There are many paths to attain the rainbow body.. taoism is one, sufism is another.. the Jamilian University of the Ordained teaches it.. the Egyptian pharaohs did it.. the mayans did it and the south american mystics are still doing it.. please do not be that arrogant enough to assume that dzogchen is like the highest path in the world..

Dzogchen is one of the highest paths yes, but there is no such thing as the highest path in the world..

I quote from Zeitegist ...

"All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is the most destructive, evil thing. Leaders destroy the followers and followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

I'm not sure where you got such ideas from. I'm not aware of any solid academic research on the topic, nor do I think there's any evidence of such people practicing it. You can believe whatever you'd like to believe though.

 

Just because other traditions use the same words doesn't mean that they're talking about the same thing. The rainbow body is attained at the time of death where the body disappears and only the hair and nails are left, and as far as I know only Tibetans talk about this phenomenon.

 

Tibetans talk about many different types of bodies. You can see some talked about here http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/approaching_buddhism/introduction/extra_bodily_states.html

 

 

 

lol ok. Go buy Heartdrops of Dharmakaya and practice thogal then. The full instructions are there. You'll find that nothing happens since you haven't mastered trekcho. It's a common misunderstanding to mistake skillful means for arrogance. Would you give a laptop to a 2 year old? They wouldn't know what to do with it

 

I used to be pretty obsessed with the highest and most esoteric practices too. Then I realized it's all ego. As I told someone else in this forum, you have to realize that you will die through these practices. Nobody becomes enlightened. Nobody becomes immortal or attains rainbow body. You die because you're not real, you're a self-grasping thought-pattern. 'Body' is a figure of speech. It's not a body. It's a continuum of compassionate energy. There's no 'you' in there.

The rainbow body is an universal phenomenon which does not belong to the tibetan buddhists.

I have just watched the movies dhamma brothers last night. There were some inmates who rejected meditation cos they think meditation belong to buddhism and not christianity.

However meditiation is a skill, a universal thing just like how the rainbow body is an univeral thing. Just cos some groups attach some names to a thing does not mean that thing belong to a certain order only.

Namaste

Solar meditation? Never heard that, perhaps you're talking about sky gazing. Anyway, the practice of Thogal which transforms the body into body of light is generally kept secret because rarely ever does anyone get to the level where it's even relevant. You need to master Trekcho first, which is the last practice taught in the program. Trekcho is when you practice resting in Rigpa. Most people are lucky to even get a taste of Rigpa once during their entire life, so obviously mastering the practice is difficult, but once you are resting 24/7 in Rigpa you go see a teacher personally, and they will teach you Thogal. That's generally how it works. I wouldn't worry about Thogal. Trekcho is hard enough, believe me.

Thank you for your honest reply, sunya.

Thogal is what every forumer here is subconsciously and unconsciously looking for.

Thogal is also known as the immortal body of light as taught by Mantak Chia, it is called the light body as taught by the taoists, the diamond body as taught by the dzogchen.

Thogal is also known as solar meditation.

It is the highest form of evolution of man and countless practioners of various tradtions all over the world has achieved it.

And Thogal is not that hard. I already know the rudiments of it. However, I am still searching for more information on that topic.

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/9356-yeshe-lama-thogal-teachings/

The Egyptian Pharaohs practiced it, the Hindu Masters practiced it, the Mayans Practiced it, the Sufis and other ME spiritual groups practiced it, the Shinto Priests and Taoists masters practiced it so yes, this practice is known to spiritual groups all over the world.

The Tibetan Buddhist monks are sometimes too arrogant, I think, in assuming that this practice is too difficult or too precious to be transmitted to the average Joe on the street.

True dzogchen teachings include 1) the art of solar meditation 2) the art of transforming your body into light aka rainbow body.

Does your program cover solar meditation or the rainbow body meditation?

Siddhis are no different from getting a university degree or a black belt in karate.

These are knowledge/abilities which can be used for good and bad purposes.

To deny yourself from gaining siddhis which can prevent you from fully developing yourself and limit your contributions to humanity is a sin not only to yourself, but they are also sins to your fellow men, to humanity and to the creator himself.

Imagine the whole of humanity being endowed with siddhis and using these abilities to create miracles in science, spirituality and technology.

The word "limits" would be wiped out from the dictionary altogether.

Michael thelerner, your concept of a balanced life plainly shows your fears about being alone and your desire to remain in samsara. You are one of those that are actually hindering the evolution of the human race, unfortunately.