Aaron

Derek Lin's translation has many inaccuracies. Remember he is a member of the I-Kuan Tao movement, so his agenda is to encourage a type of Buddhist/Taoist hybridism. If you want an accurate translation I recommend John C. H. Wu or Henricks. They are both widely respected in all facets of the Taoist community. Aaron

They have a new site, search Google for tea house forum.

Lao Tzu actually explains how to govern in the Tao Te Ching repeatedly and he distinguishes between his form of government and others, noting that his is natural and the others are not. So Nazism is not actually natural, nor is a republic, communism, socialism, and all the other forms of government we've tried. America is a social experiment that was set up to protect the wealthy land owners from taxation by the British Empire. The freedom Chenping talks about wasn't intended for everyone, but just the few landowners. This is why we had the electoral college and the reason why slavery wasn't abolished at the formation of the republic. Nazism wasn't a "spiritual" ideology, so comparing it to religions is kind of offensive, rather it was a philosophical ideology with a strong emphasis on race, in particular propagating the Aryan race and ridding the world of lesser races. Chenping, you still have failed to validate your argument by finding any justification in the Tao Te Ching for your own belief. If you want to purport a Taoist philosophy, you should really make sure you can show why it is Taoist. Aaron

They've since fixed it, so no worries. Apparently it happens to everyone when they get back from a ban or so it seems. Aaron

And have you ever wondered why there was so much war and destruction in China? The various empires and dynasties that rose and fell? Perhaps society isn't the best word, rather the government that does not recognize freedom and liberty is destined to fail. Aaron

I want to quote a passage that speaks about this... "Does anyone want to take the world and do what he wants with it? I do not see how he can succeed. The world is a sacred vessel, which must not be tampered with or grabbed after. To tamper with it is to spoil it, and to grasp it is to lose it. In fact, for all things there is a time for going ahead, and a time for following behind; A time for slow-breathing and a time for fast-breathing; A time to grow in strength and a time to decay; A time to be up and a time to be down. Therefore, the Sage avoids all extremes, excesses and extravagances." tr. John C. H. Wu This passage tells us that those who try to enforce their will on the world will ultimately fail and that there is a time for all things that are natural... if you wonder how I came to that conclusion, look at the examples given. It doesn't say, holocausts, human experimentation, genocide, or even fascism, it gives us very natural examples that are a part of the natural order of things. If we choose to add an example such as the holocaust to this list, then we should look at other passages within the Tao Te Ching and find a way to justify it. I don't think anyone could. So to say that their is a Nazi Tao is fine, but to try and allude to this idea that it's part of the natural order isn't, at least not if you are trying to use Chuang Tzu or Lao Tzu to support the notion, simply because the Tao Te Ching says very clearly that the principles of Fascism are not virtuous and not beneficial to the whole. Ultimately any fascist regime will fail, simply because they do try and "take the world and do what they want with it." In the end any government that doesn't recognize the qualities of freedom and liberty are destined to fail. I think in many ways we're looking at the decline of the United States, for this very reason. Aaron edited- changed society to government in the last paragraph.

This is an interesting question (the what is your diet like that is)... I currently have a very bad diet in regards to, cholesterol, fat, not enough veggies, too many starches, etc. Next Tuesday I am leaving to live in Sant Mat household (ashram)? The residents are lacto-vegetarians, which means not just no meat, but no eggs either. I was a vegetarian for a long time, but that was over fifteen years ago. I imagine the transition will be rough, but health wise, much better. When I can get back online, I'll let you know what it was like. Aaron

My messaging privileges have still not been restored. Could someone please restore them? Thanks in advance, Aaron

It's working now. Thanks Aaron

I've gotten a lot of support from others regarding my suspension and so far I have failed to hear anyone say they felt it was justified nor have I been provided with any evidence of a direct insult or violation of the ToS, new or old. Sean has apologized for my suspension and admitted that it was questionable. I'm not going to pursue it since he apologized. I have also added you to my ignore list and I recommend anyone that finds your speech offensive to do the same. With that said, I bid you adieu. Just remember I wont be reading any reply from you, so you'll just be wasting your breath if you do. Aaron

When did you send it? I looked through both my accounts and I can't find any email from you.

No, I can't send or receive personal messages, the moderators removed that from my permissions. Aaron

I find it constantly perplexing when people say "Tao" and tend to confine it in this idea that it's someone's "natural behavior". I actually got into an argument about this, because the person was using the passage about straw dogs to justify his reasoning that the Tao doesn't care about the universe. That's not it actually. First, most archaeologists agree that straw dogs were effigies that were burnt in a symbolic gesture, in other words there is a drought in your village, you burn the effigy and it will appease the god's and ease the drought. With that in mind if you look at the concept of sentimentality in a proper context the meaning behind the passage changes dramatically. In my opinion Tao is not sentimental, it holds no preference to anything and in it's eyes all things will eventually be burnt (or die). With that said, it doesn't mean that there isn't a natural course of action that should occur, in fact the natural course is clearly defined in the Tao Te Ching. There are certain things a Sage does and doesn't do. It's mentioned over and over and because there is no explicit moral definition applied to it, we tend to overlook that it really is a specific moral doctrine in its own right. If that wasn't enough we can always look at the passage that states, "Good men are the teachers of bad men" and that "bad men are the students of good men". There is a moral imperative aligned with Taoism, one that is based on a higher standard perhaps, but it is still there. We also need to remember that there is a time for all things, but that doesn't mean there is a Tao for all things, unless we want to say tao (small t) in which the term is simply defined as "way". So in that sense the Nazi's had a tao, the republicans have a tao, the mother has a tao, but not all these things are necessarily in line with Tao, the unnameable and undefinable way. The notion of justifying Nazi Fascism by claiming it was their way, is not only ludicrous, but a bit absurd. It calls to mind the reason many people become Taoists, because they feel that Taoism is void of morals and that it allows people to do whatever they want, when in fact it doesn't. Lao Tzu said people can do whatever they want, but that not all actions are beneficial. If you want to believe a race is evil, you can, but I believe Lao Tzu was strongly against racism (after all he left China for the land of the barbarians) and instead believed that all men had strayed from what he believed was the natural way of living. This may seem long and lengthy, but it comes down to this. Taoism is ultimately about acting in a way that is beneficial to others. If your actions harm others, then they are not Tao. Compassion, frugality, and not striving to be first in the world (not to be confused with humility) are essential aspects of this philosophy, and although only mentioned once together, they are referenced numerous times throughout the text. If that doesn't amount to a morality, then I'm not sure what does. So to close this up, there are ways things occur, but don't confuse this with Tao. There is an integral part of Tao that is ultimately aligned with Te (virtue). If something is not virtuous, then it is against Tao, plain and simple. You can try to justify taking whatever action you feel is right, but you will have to cut out a lot of the Tao Te Ching and Chuang Tzu to do so. Aaron

Lately the number of off-topic disruptions and trolling occurring in various threads has become very disruptive. Most of these disruptions can be linked to a few members who seem to feel that there is no need to stay on topic. Now I'm not referring to the odd humorous post, but rather those people who seem to feel it necessary to push their own personal philosophical and ideological agendas, rather than remain on topic. With that in mind I wanted to hear what other people thought about this and what they might recommend regarding TTB's treatment of these incidents. Aaron

There was a thread about this awhile ago, it should still be in General Discussions. You might want to take a look there and see, I think it had a lot of responses. If I remember most of the members that shared their types were NFs (not surprising). Aaron edit- Oh, INFJ

I wanted to poke my head in, not to get reinvolved in the Gay issue, but to make a point that the some of the same people that have been attacking homosexuality on this forum have also been spreading anti-semitic messages as well. I think at some point the moderation team has to ask how much is too much? If you have any questions regarding the anti-semitism, go to the "Is the West descending into Fascism" thread and take a look. I've made my point, can't really explain it any more than this, so now I'm taking a deep breath and hoping reason will soon show its face here. Aaron

Hello Seth, Let me just say this and I'm going to bow out (or maybe not owledge). I've had an epiphany and here it is. So long as someone hates, whether it is an idea, behavior, person, or thing, they will never find peace in their life. Case in point, I'm autistic, asperger's syndrome, very mild case, but I have it. Certain noises drive me crazy, in particular clicking and clucking sounds. They used to get me so angry that I became irrational, especially when people did it on purpose, but then I woke up to the fact that regardless of how much I despise those sounds, they are just sounds and holding hatred for these sounds is a waste of time and energy and only prevents me from finding peace in my life. I don't think I'll ever get to a point where I can hear them without cringing a bit, but that doesn't mean I have to hate them or devote all that energy to hating them, because it is all a waste of energy, so instead of focusing on them, letting them preoccupy my time, I take a deep breath... and let it go. Let it go. Cringe if you have to, but don't let it disrupt the peace in your life. There will always be hate and bigotry, without it we can't have love and understanding. You have to decide which one you want to foster and how you choose to foster it. I say stop feeding the fire and get back to posting what you love posting about. Let this fire die and take a deep breath and feel that compassion that is inside of you, work with that. In the end spreading compassion will benefit you and everyone around you a hundred times more than hating will ever be able to do. Aaron

Bump... Merged this with DynamicTao's translation of chapter one... merging doesn't notify of new topics, so just wanted to make sure everyone knew where it went.

Recently Serene Blue, who is a moderator on this board made a statement that I think warrants answering, which is that we as a community can't decide whether or not the comments occurring in the Right Wing War Against LBGTS thread was hate speech or an unpleasant fact. First I take offense to the term fact, because nothing stated in any link or statement is actually factual but rather circumstantial and subjective and much of the problem going on is that people are presenting this "evidence" as factual, when the sources are all biased and anti-gay to begin with. With that said, my question is whether or not the comments going on in the above mentioned thread are actual hate speech or are they unpleasant truths? I think the answer is clear, but I would appreciate the objective analysis of the community. Aaron edit- Added neither for the agnostics among us.

Does anyone else think this is a troll post? In other words it was just started to incite more bitter discussions about a subject that is finally winding down? Aaron

A troll is someone who purposely posts incendiary material in order to cause disruption on a website. Immortal4life, your recent post regarding Gay Men can't donate blood in Canada would be considered a troll post by many. Aaron

I applaud the recent move to start putting topics that are obviously not General Discussions about philosophical or spiritual matters to the Off Topic section. In support of this avante garde approach to maintaining the dignity and sanctity of the General Discussions section I have listed several topics that should be moved. http://thetaobums.com/topic/26905-americans-bringing-everybody-down/ http://thetaobums.com/topic/13088-tell-me-what-offends-you-and-i-will-tell-you-who-you-are/ http://thetaobums.com/topic/26917-healthy-places-to-live-no-gmo-no-flouride-water/ http://thetaobums.com/topic/26929-the-privilege-of-helping-someone-die/ http://thetaobums.com/topic/26844-sex-appeal/ http://thetaobums.com/topic/26870-new-web-site-your-thoughts/ http://thetaobums.com/topic/26849-keyword-heart-attack/ http://thetaobums.com/topic/26647-what-is-your-diet-like-how-does-it-affect-you/ http://thetaobums.com/topic/26713-vintage-ads-drugs/ I stopped at page 4, but I hope that helps. I've done my civic duty today. Aaron

I looked into the studies that White Wolf posted earlier in this thread and others that propagate anti-gay stereotypes. The vast majority are over a decade old and have been discredited and disproven, of the recent ones listed, I couldn't find any that directly related to homosexuality, but rather dangerous sex acts period. Just a bunch of hysteria and hate mongering. I can't believe Taobums is allowing this kind of pandering and hate mongering to exist. That post should, at the very least be noted for what it is, rather than allow it to cater to the homophobes that want to spread their hate and fear to others. Aaron

I have no problems with having it moved to off-topic. But it would be nice if you left it in both sections for awhile so people knew where it went. Aaron