Aaron

Most people will tell you that revenge does not make you feel better, rather just empty in the end. The subjective qualities of revenge have more to do with the practicalities of it, than the morality of it. Most people have wanted revenge at some point in their life, the reason many stop using it as a means of dealing with their emotions, is because of the repercussions that follow. Whether it's being spanked because you tripped someone who pushed you, or going to jail because you tried to run over your boyfriend or girlfriend. Those who don't learn these rules oftentimes lack the ability to, due to serious personality disorders.

Lao Tzu would disagree I think. Knowledge does not bring happiness, in most cases. The less you know, the happier you will be. This is why a child can be in the middle of war zone and be thrilled with finding a red ball, they don't know of death or hardship yet, only the red ball and how much fun they can have with it. Three days later, in the same war zone, that child can find that ball, but because of the experiences they've had, they find no joy, it is only a ball, nothing more. Ignorance breeds possibilities that knowledge does not.

I think there's a difference between transient psychosis due to major depression, drug use, or other brief mental illness and schizophrenia and bipolar. I think many of the people who "recover" are most likely suffering from psychosis as a result of something other than a major mental illness. With that said, meditation helped me with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Depression, and Anxiety, removing the need for medication, which I had been taking long term. I found that the less involved in self I became, the less my mental illness ruled my life and the more I was able to escape the trappings of the world from which they grew. That being said, my OCD is a chemical imbalance and I still feel the need to check my door now and again, the difference is I allow myself to do it without feeling guilt over it. A lot of growth comes from acceptance, not necessarily getting rid of things.

Meditation and practice does not bring worth to one's life, that's a subjective value. If you are practicing and it's exacerbating your emotional state, often it's better to take a break. Practice rarely removes the hardship of life. Before enlightenment we chop wood and carry water, afterwards we chop wood and carry water. Enlightenment does not free us from our obligations of daily life, it only helps us understand the nature of existence.

I've seen very few cases where meditation has eliminated the need for medication with someone suffering from a chemical imbalance in the brain resulting in a mental illness such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. With that said, what meditation can do is help with some of the symptoms associated with mental illness, such as anxiety and depression, but keep in mind that the type of meditation used is different than Vipissana and other more intense forms of meditation. In therapy they normally teach meditation techniques that help people focus from distraction or relax, it's not intended to bring enlightenment, but rather relief from symptoms. When one suffers from mental illness, especially if they're experiencing psychosis, depression, anxiety, or other severe symptoms, practicing Vipissana, The Secret of the Golden Flower, or other intense meditation practices can do more harm than good. In fact it was common practice to not teach The Secret of the Golden Flower to people exhibiting these symptoms. This isn't something modern medicine has just figured out, but something that's been taught for a very long time. What I recommend isn't the exclusion of meditation for people suffering from mental illness, but rather the wisdom to know what will help them and what will harm them.

Doctors know that pharmaceuticals can alter the brain chemistry and cause psychotic episodes, long term psychosis, depression, anxiety, and the list goes on, well meditation also alters the brain chemistry, albeit not with the use of drugs. I think that in many cases people are susceptible to these side effects because of their own mental health at the time of the experience. If you have anxiety or depression and you begin to meditate, it opens your mind to the depths of that anxiety and depression and can overwhelm you. If you've been able to suppress paranoid and delusional thoughts through impulse control, meditation can reduce that impulse control and in fact is supposed to reduce it, allowing for one to begin to experience these ideas and thoughts and making it hard for them to stop once the meditation is over, especially if one is encouraged to continue and work through the experience. If you have seriously disturbing thoughts while meditating, STOP IMMEDIATELY and seek psychiatric help. I never recommend that people suffering from severe mental illness, depression, anxiety, or other mental disorders practice any extreme form of meditation. Relaxation is one thing, but nothing like a retreat. Most retreats wont even allow someone with a diagnosis to attend for this very reason. Be wise and knowledgeable. Don't encourage people who have issues with reality to experience something that can change that perception in a way they might not be able to handle.

Actually Fascism has always been linked to corporate power and nationalism. I would say the current trend in America started with Bush and was carried on through the Obama administration. This isn't just a Republican agenda, but a Democrat one as well. The goal is to remove freedoms from American's and increase the power of the wealthy, plain and simple. Anyone not on board isn't patriotic, plain and simple. the wrinkle in this plan is that they didn't expect as many people as there are, to be opposed to their singling out Muslims and Hispanics. Gosh darn morality taught to us before it fell out of vogue. In my opinion in the next few months we'll see a major terrorist attack that will be the cause of massive loss of life and that will be the reasoning for removing our civil rights. It most likely wont happen here, but the idea that it could happen here is all that matters. The current administration will blow it out of proportions so they can use it for their agenda. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I will be. "If you have nothing to hide, what do you have to be afraid of?"

Here's chapter Four of the Tao Teh Ching for discussion. I personally think this is a great chapter and certainly helps us to begin to understand Lao Tzu's beliefs regarding the Tao. I look forward to hearing everyone's comments. Chapter Four (Translated by John C. H. Wu) The Tao is like an empty bowl, Which in being used can never be filled up. Fathomless, it seems to be the origin of all things. It blunts all sharp edges, It unties all tangles, It harmonizes all lights, It unites the world into one whole. Hidden in the deeps, Yet it seems to exist for ever. I do not know whose child it is; It seems to be the common ancestor of all, the father of things. Chapter Four (Translated by Gia-fu Feng and Jane English) The Tao is an empty vessel; it is used, but never filled. Oh, unfathomable source of ten thousand things! Blunt the sharpness, Untangle the knot, Soften the glare, Merge with dust. Oh, hidden deep but ever present! I do not know from whence it comes. It is the forefather of the gods. Chapter Four (Translated by Robert G. Henricks- Note this translations is from an older version of the Tao Teh Ching and may differ from other translations) 1. The Way is empty; 2. Yet when you use it, you never need fill it again. 3. Like an abyss! It seems to be the ancestor of the ten thousand things. 4. If files down sharp edges; 5. Unties the tangles; 6. Softens the glare; 7. And settles the dust. 8. Submerged! It seems perhaps to exist. 9. We don't know whose child it is; 10. It seems to have [even] preceded the Lord. Aaron

So many people responded to the thread regarding starting a subforum about the Tao Teh Ching, I thought it might be nice to start discussing the chapters in order. What I'd like to do is present the chapter, then open the thread up for discussion on what we think the chapter is about. When I do this, I will be posting twice, the first post will contain the actual chapter, the second will be my comments on the chapter. If anyone else wants to partake in this project, I would suggest taking the same approach- Chapter first, then your comments. The intention of starting this thread is not simply to discuss my own interpretation, but rather allow people to discuss their views on the chapter and ask questions if they have them. With that said, here is Chapter One as translated by John C. H. Wu- Chapter One Tao can be talked about, but not the Eternal Tao. Names can be named, but not the Eternal Name. As the origin of heaven-and-earth, it is nameless: As "the Mother" of all things, it is nameable. So, as ever hidden, we should look at its inner essence: As always manifest, we should look at its outer aspects. These two flow from the same source, though differently named; And both are called mysteries. The Mystery of mysteries is the Door of all essence.

Ethics, morality, and capitalism are all forms of low virtue. They will never bring people closer to realization and enlightenment, nor will they create a society that brings peace and contentment. It is these things that actually create the problems in the world we face today. It is only when we give up these laws and live in Te, that we will be able to find peace in our own lives. Sadly I think society is beyond this, so saving society is beyond our means, the only thing we can do is save ourselves and comfort those few people we come in contact with. So my goal is be compassionate to those around me, to be the kind of person I would want others to be, and to not let emotions take control of my life, but rather be the calm at the center of the storm. It is only by being content that I can bring contentment to others as well.

Tolerance and apathy have nothing to do with the fall of civilization... Tao Te Ching Chapter 38 HIGH Virtue is non-virtuous; Therefore it has Virtue. Low Virtue never frees itself from virtuousness; Therefore it has no Virtue. High Virtue makes no fuss and has no private ends to serve: Low Virtue not only fusses but has private ends to serve. High humanity fusses but has no private ends to serve: High morality not only fusses but has private ends to serve. High ceremony fusses but finds no response; Then it tries to enforce itself with rolled-up sleeves. Failing Tao, man resorts to Virtue. Failing Virtue, man resorts to humanity. Failing humanity, man resorts to morality. Failing morality, man resorts to ceremony. Now, ceremony is the merest husk of faith and loyalty; It is the beginning of all confusion and disorder. As to foreknowledge, it is only the flower of Tao, And the beginning of folly. Therefore, the full-grown man sets his heart upon the substance rather than the husk; Upon the fruit rather than the flower. Truly, he prefers what is within to what is without. -- John C. H. Wu

You have the option of getting a rabid dog, a mutt, or a scarecrow to protect your property. Sure the rabid dog might be the most ferocious, but do you trust it not to bite you? And if you are bitten wont you have to worry about rabies yourself? The mutt isn't a purebred, it's not necessarily trustworthy, but if it does something wrong, it's most likely not going to lead to your death. The scarecrow is great in principle, but how practical is it? Sure you don't want the rabid dog or mutt, but the scarecrow isn't going to do anything and the fact is, the only options are the rabid dog or the mutt if you want anything done. I guess the question is what do we want done? My belief is that Hillary is guilty of all the things people say she is, however I don't worry that Hillary will start a nuclear holocaust or make some terrible decision that will send us into another depression or war that might just end the world as we know it. I also believe we will have time under a Clinton presidency to elect progressives and independents that will allow us to change the government and get money and corruption out of politics. So for me, I will vote for the lesser of two evils, because not voting for the lesser of two evils, might mean the greater evil wins and if that happens, then I am responsible for that.

Could you explain how you are the head of Judaism? Is this a mistranslation, do you mean you're knowledgeable about Judaism? If God is talking to you, do you hear him inside your mind or outside of your mind? Do you realize there are literally hundreds of sects (if not thousands) of Judaism? If this is a joke, can I just say it's a bit tasteless and possibly a bit racist as well.

I've come to experience a new found interest in my spiritual connection to the world around me. I think a lot of this has to do with my physical health. For several years I was either severely overweight or obese, and when my health began to decline, so did my spiritual well-being. I began to lose sight of the spiritual and focus more on the physical. I began to worry less about what I "should" be doing and rather the physical pleasures life had to offer. It was only after achieving balance in my physical life that I was able to achieve balance in my spiritual life again. I'm not sure if others have felt this way, but now that I am back in shape, relatively speaking (I'm 6'2" and 214lbs), I find I am able to meditate and contemplate more clearly and also have returned to an intuitive understanding of what I should be doing day to day. Has anyone else experienced this?

To add to my first comment mankind existed for around 200,000 years without any form of religion, to believe that religions somehow have the answer, simply because of a creation myth doesn't necessarily answer the question. Look in the mirror and you can see your beginning and your end.

My experience is that we are EVERYTHING and EVERYTHING has always been here, how things evolved isn't such an important question for me, rather I'm concerned with what am I doing right now.

There are teachers who claim to be enlightened and I will just say that those who teach and accept money, then hold onto that money, rather than help others with it, probably aren't the people you want to follow.

So awhile ago I posted that I had been diagnosed with diabetes. I went to the doctors and found out I had a 9.1 A1C. It hit me hard. I was 258lbs and overweight, in fact I had lost weight to even get to that point, something like 20lbs. I told people I was going to diet and hopefully I would be able to get rid of it, but everyone I knew that was diabetic said it couldn't be done. It would've been easy for me to fall into that frame of mind where I said, "you're right, I can't control this with my diet" and maybe I did, because I started taking medication that everyone said would help me lose weight and only changed some of my eating habits, but after having severe side effects from the medication, I decided to quit taking it and focus on my diet. (I checked with my doctor before stopping my medication, let me make that clear.) My doctor wasn't very hopeful that I would lose weight either. He encouraged me to change medication, I guess he'd seen too many patients that had failed, but I had my mindset on getting rid of my diabetes through my diet. At first I cut down my carbohydrates to no more than 40 a day. It was tough, but I started losing weight, ever so slowly, like a pound and half to a pound a week. I stuck to it for three months, like religiously. I wasn't really watching calories, just carbohydrates, in three months I had lost 18 pounds. I wasn't too certain I had done much with my A1C, but I had it tested and it came back at 5.3, below the 6.0 cut off for Diabetes. I am no longer diabetic. I was ecstatic, I mean literally. Look up the word, that was me. I couldn't believe I'd done it. I went back 30 days later and the doctor didn't test me, but I had gained 2lbs. I was still only eating 40 carbs a day, but I was gaining weight so I decided to reduce my calories as well as stay under 40 carbs. It was miserable! I mean really rough. I decided to eat under 1500 calories a day. The first thing I learned was that our stomachs don't grow or shrink, only our appetite changes based on how much we eat. This changed the way I started to look at dieting, because I realized eating healthy foods wasn't enough, it was also how much food I ate. After thirty days I weighed myself again and I had gone from 232lbs to 219lbs. In a month I had lost 13lbs and I wasn't hungry all the time. My appetite shrunk. I could eat a chicken breast and some broccoli for dinner and that was enough. I could eat regular portions and not feel starved. I am still losing weight. Today I put on the shorts I had worn to bed last month and they fall to my ankles. I can't tell you how good that felt. If you think I'm telling you this to brag, you're wrong. I'm telling you this because so many people tell you it can't be done! It can be done, you just have to be willing to do it. The one thing I realized about all the people who were diabetic and struggling is that more often than not, they weren't willing to change how much they ate or what they ate. I don't care how good a pill is, it's hard for me to believe that pill alone is going to make everything better. So if you're struggling with your health, whether it's diabetes, obesity, or anything else, I think the most important lesson I've learned is that change doesn't come free, and it's not easy. It's work, but all those months of hard work are so worth it when you can look down and see your feet. Or when you walk and realize your knees aren't hurting anymore. It's amazing how great you can feel. I'm not done. I'm going to keep working on losing weight. I'm going to continue to eat healthy and manage my carbs and calories. Even when I get to my goal weight of 185lbs I'm going to keep working, because I don't want to be the person I was. I want to be an example for others, to say, "hey here's where I was and here's where I am" and when people ask how I did it, I can say, "just do what I'm doing." And maybe my life can be the lesson, rather than all of these words.

John C H Wu is my personal favorite. Read his translation and let me know what you think.

Actually the Tao Te Ching teaches that morality is relative to society. It also tells us how we should live our lives. It is very much a moral text, in the same way Zazen is the compass for Zen. Someone who reads the Tao Te Ching probably doesn't understand how they can achieve Te (or Virtue with a capital v). That's one of the goals of the book, to start us on a course of "right" action that will allow us to understand what Te actually is. We all know te, or the virtue of man, because we're taught it in school, church, and all the social institutions, but we can't know Te unless we allow Te to happen. That begins by behaving in a way that cultivates, Tao in our lives. When we achieve Te we can see the folly of te, but we can't explain it or express it, but it changes our perception of ourselves, even if but a second, into a person of Tao.

Read the Tao Te Ching. That's the best book I know about leadership.

We are the universe and the universe is us. We are the higher power we search for. When we stop searching and start looking at ourselves, we can begin to understand this and then stop hoping the universe looks out for us, and instead look out for the universe.

Thank you all for the kind words. My goal is to change my life in a way where I can be in harmony with my body, mind, and spirit. I don't have all the answers, but I believe it begins with looking within and then taking what I learn and effecting harmony with the world around me. If I can do that, I think I can be the wordless teacher, the guy who you see, who doesn't have to say a thing, but you want to live like them. There aren't many like that today.

I have a distinct belief that I am that higher power, just as you are that higher power, when I realized this, I spent less time blaming someone else for my problems, just like I spent less time thinking someone else saved me, when more often than not it was just being very fortuitous. Really it's kind of selfish to think like this, what do we say about those people who weren't so fortunate, "someone wasn't looking out for them?"

I just bought a Scion iQ mini-car. It's tiny, but it gets 36/37mpg city and highway. That is because of my 1% faith in the government keeping gas prices down.