Aaron

I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but one of our newest members has been awol for awhile now. Can anyone send Grandmaster a message? Tell him we miss him (at least I do) and that he should at least stop by to say hello now and again. It's not the same without you. Aaron

My, I go to work for a day and come back to find that the thread is going further and further off topic. Lots of smart talk, little wisdom. Stroking egos together, is that sort of like mutual ego masturbation, or more like rough ego sex? I can't really tell. I'll stay out of all that and stay on topic. One thing to remember, your spiritual progress is measured in how you are able to communicate with others. Very few asses are spiritually aware, so keep that in mind when you decide who to listen to and who not. Also, just because someone says something ridiculous, doesn't mean we have to reply. Aaron

I've taken leave of many things recently and perhaps my senses. I still stand by my comments, but accept your view of the circumstances as being equally valid. Welcome back, it's good to see you around. Aaron

I've had so many strange experiences meditating, I couldn't even mention them all. What others have said is true, you shouldn't focus on them, address them and let them go. Now, with that said, I will try and shed some light on why these experiences happen, at least as I believe them to. We like to believe that meditation accesses a part of our psyche that we normally don't use, well that's not true, in fact it accesses a part of the brain we use throughout the day. When we take a long drive and can't remember most of the trip, we've accessed that part of the psyche. When we dream, we've accessed that part of the psyche. When we suddenly realize someone has been talking to us, we were accessing that part of the psyche. The truth is that we access this part of the psyche more often than we know, but we don't consciously access it. This part of the psyche has many uses, it helps to regulate our response to pain for instance, but it also helps us to process enormous amounts of information that we can't possibly pay attention to, now when you start paying attention to that, weird things happen, sometimes really weird. Well this is the crux, you can focus on the weird, or you can focus on your practice. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with your practice, but I do know what I try to accomplish, which is developing a deeper insight into the self. Now these transient sensations aren't the self, but rather what the self experiences, so focusing on them can distract you, but also they may be distracting you on purpose. In other words a part of you is sending a signal to take a break from what you're doing. When something weird happens, there is nothing wrong with stopping then and there and addressing it, but trying to repeat it may not be the best idea, because you're just repeating what your psyche is telling you not too, sort of like picking at a scab. Don't pick the scab, look at it, know it's there and let it heal. At least that's how I view it, I'm sure others will give you advice in this regard as well. I hope you find what you need, not necessarily what you want. Aaron

Okay, lets clarify my intentions with this thread, since I don't want to be drawn into a debate about what exists and doesn't. First I am a spiritual person, very much so. I have no doubt that we are more than just flesh and blood, neurons and synapses firing. We have a spark, a connection to something greater. My point was that in this quest for something greater, we oftentimes give up our own experience with this greater, truer, or original self, whatever you want to call it, and allow others to define that self for us. This self is the connection to the spiritual world that exists all around us. Not a world filled with ghosts and demons and angels and gods, but a world filled with wonder, miraculous things we can't even begin to fathom, nor should we. This self is only realized through introspection, looking within and finding it. When we take a rote path, one written and dictated for us, the path it leads us to isn't that original self, but another self whose creation is already being written by the experiences laid out before us. On these predetermined paths we never reach our original self, but rather the self that someone else has created for us. In my mind, Religion's greatest fault is the one that corrupts our ability to experience this freely, without restraint or fetters, but rather by contemplating our own experiences, winding down to the point when we began and seeing it all clearly and without corruption by anything else. When we can do that, religion isn't needed. With that said, there is wisdom to gain from religious traditions. I've gained much from it myself, but in studying the worlds religions, one message I hear repeatedly from the greatest minds of these religions is to not rely on the message, but rather our own experience, that the dogma and ideology are merely post it notes, the real book isn't something we read, but something we realize through coming to an understanding of who we REALLY are (or for some, aren't). Anyways, great discussion so far. Aaron

Welcome back VMarco, you know me well enough to understand what my views are regarding your post, so I'll just leave it there. I trust you had a nice vacation, good too see you again. Okay, I lied, I'm going to clarify some things. First Lao Tzu never claimed that spiritual insight comes from the heart, in fact he never mentions spiritual insight at all, but rather he talks about wisdom and insight in a plural sense. I don't necessarily disagree with your definition of wisdom, but I think that saying everything is a lie is a lie, and if it is a lie, then it is true that it is a lie, hence everything can't be a lie. Just wanted to poke you with that last one, hehehe... I have been working long hours, so that's the extent of my post today. Off to relax. Aaron edit- Also, could you please post your sources for the Lao Tzu quotes, preferably translator, text, and page in case someone wants to examine the context deeper?

Okay I was finally made aware that GranmasterP was suspended, I'm not sure why. From what I understand it was supposed to be a seven day suspension, but it's been well over seven days, so I'm not sure what's happening. In regards to this issue, could a moderator check to see what's going on here and if GrandmasterP is supposed to be reinstated, please do so. Second, could you also let us know exactly why he was suspended and provide some evidence to support the suspension? I personally can't remember any post that would warrant such an action, so for the sake of full disclosure, and also so we the Joe average members of this forum, don't have to fear unwarranted reprisals for comments made that upset other more prominent members. Aaron

No, not you. You might be hard headed, but you never seem intentionally rude. Aaron

This is the funny thing, scientists will tell you they're not absolutely certain that we evolved from single cell creatures, that it's a hypothesis and theory, but you have been brainwashed by the religion of science into believing it's the absolute truth. You don't even have proof. Humanity is not the beginning of everything, nor will it be there at the end. You are as delusional as any of the people you are bitching about. Aaron edit- Oh yeah, we're not even sure where the original human came from, remember the missing link? Without it, again, it's all hypothesis and theoretical.

The most important piece of advice I can give you is not to worry about whether or not people respect you. Respect yourself and everything else comes into place. May you find what you're looking for and may it be what you need. Aaron

congratulations you are the second person on my ignore list. Aaron

Vedanta came up with it 2000 years ago so you're a little late in that regard. oh and the Bible actually says we are made in God's image so nothing original there either. the problem is that you can't see past the concept of humanity. You believe that humanity is the beginning and the end, but it's neither. Aaron

I tried to login to chat and it said I don't have permission. Has something changed?

Ahh... well the answer there lies in, you guessed it, emptiness. "Between Heaven and Earth, There seems to be a Bellows: It is empty, and yet it is inexhaustible; The more it works, the more comes out of it. No amount of words can fathom it: Better look for it within you." Lao Tzu (tr. John C. H. Wu) Aaron

In regards to the OP, I agree with you to a degree. Yes we have been in the same rut for over 2,000 years, with little to no innovation, but remember religion isn't about innovation, it's about propagation. There's a reason little changes. With that said I wanted to address some ideas that you've mentioned, in particular the idea of emptiness. Having experienced "emptiness" I can tell you that it does exist and it most certainly isn't empty, after all you can't really experience emptiness. Emptiness is always here, but it can't really be described, Lord knows I've tried, so I wont try and explain it here, except to say that most people call it that for lack of a better word, but it's not really a good description. After twenty years I think I've finally got a grasp of the Tao Te Ching. I don't necessarily follow the traditional views of the Tao Te Ching. I wouldn't consider my practice to be stagnate, but alive. I see many correlations with the Tao Te Ching and modern science, in fact I know many programmers and mathematicians that are fascinated with the Tao Te Ching. I think we'll see some revolutionary ideas that will arise because of this interest, it just takes time. As far as the holographic universe goes, the Buddhists and Hindus were talking about that, oh, 2,000 years ago, so in that regard science was a little late. Aaron

Sinasencer, I'm sorry if my tone offended you, but let me explain some of my concerns. First, although you might not be aware, many meditation and energy practices can trigger psychological trauma, Qigong Psychosis being among them. When I recommend you take a break, it's because it's often for the best, especially if you're experiencing trauma. When I look at what you've shared over the last few months it makes me worry. If I remember correctly you're having issues with your parents, you're feeling emotionally stressed, and you seem very lonely, all of that only exacerbates these things. Meditation is fine when you're in a healthy mindset, but it can trigger deeper psychological issues if it is practiced while your mind isn't clear. I've been meditating longer than you've been alive, so this isn't conjecture, but rather compassionate advice because I care about you and don't want to see you harmed. If you don't like my tone, that's fine, but my tone was meant to say, "I care about you, you're working too hard, take a break." If I hurt your feelings, I truly am sorry, but all the same I wouldn't feel right if I had these feelings and didn't share them with you and you ended up having a psychotic experience as a result of your practice. Take this whatever way you want, but I do want you to know I care about you, that's the only reason I was talking to you in the first place. If you'd rather not have my input, just ask and I will leave you be. Aaron

how about a little prophecy on my part. I prophesize that you will not last here for more than 2 more weeks before you are suspended or banned. people like you can't control yourself enough not to insult others. In fact you have insulted many people already, it's just a matter of time before the mods take action. so the difference between you and I is that I am over myself. You are not. Aaron

I have every radiohead song ever written on my phone. They're not just good stuff, they're awesome! Aaron

And you may be talking BS. You really aren't a meet in the middle of the road kind of guy are you? Someone holds out an olive branch, you take the branch and the hand holding it. My advice, remember that one of the three jewels of the Tao Te Ching is not competing with others to be first. Don't think of your debates with others as something you must win, but something you must do you best at. There's a significant difference there. Aaron

At first I thought this was an off-topic discussion, but I think it has it's place if we discuss it within the context of religion and spirituality. Simulacra and Simulation actually play an important part in why we rely on religions in the first part, at least in my opinion. Aaron

Maybe you guys need to start a new thread, rather than derail this one any further? Aaron

Aaron I can agree with the premise of your comment, but I disagree on some points. First, children are not born selfish, they are born compassionate, satisfied to receive what they need, and are simply happy just doing what they're doing, with no desire to compete. Selfishness is taught by parents, like when two children are fighting over a toy and the parent says to one child, "Bobby that's Johnie's toy, he's playing with it now, play with your own toys." This reinforces the idea that the toy is Bobby's and Bobby believes that he has the right to play with it and doesn't have to share it with others if he doesn't want to. In order for any kind of economy to work, capitalist in particular, the notion of possession has to be ingrained early, and we do that. We take this child who only wants what he needs and is perfectly willing to share and teach him that he doesn't need to share, in fact I'm positive that the reason that Johnie didn't want to share had nothing to do with natural behavior, but rather it was picked up by watching how his parents behaved. Now two babies will fight, it's inevitable. But what normally happens (with good parenting) is that the babies settle their issues and move on. If one starts to cry, both cry, and we laugh, but on a deeper level this is important, because it shows the depth of empathy we are born with. The one baby doesn't cry because he's frightened, but because he knows he made the other baby feel bad and feels bad himself. I had a twin brother. Growing up we shared everything even our clothes. It was never mine or his, but ours. The few incidents where something was mine or his were very confusing for me (like when he won a bicycle in a contest), however my mother, with all her faults, was wise enough to make sure that we shared our toys and understood that it was proper to share. Today I can't stand to see someone hungry or suffering. I've bought food for my coworkers on numerous occasions because they couldn't afford to buy it themselves. I don't do this out of a moral need, but because I feel sad when I know they're feeling sad. I'm not sure what else to say, but you were on the right track, just a bit off, in my opinion. Aaron

eskrimar, I don't think you're in any position to analyze the well being of anyone else here. Sinasencer, your are perfect the way you are, don't let anybody else convince you otherwise. remember what was said in the religion is the poison of spirituality thread and also the friendship is a trap thread, if you have forgotton reread them. it's important for you to understand these concepts in order to understand just why you are as okay as you are. Aaron

Eskrimador grants Viator's wish, but in doing so reveals Viator's dark secret obsession with bunnies, leading everyone to believe Viator may in fact be a hyper-intelligent bunny himself. I wish people saw each other as brothers and sisters, rather than just strangers on the street.

I think it's important to separate atheism from this topic, because that's not what this topic is about. There is no reason why someone should or shouldn't believe in a higher power. This topic does touch on the coercion of children into religion and the indoctrination the majority of children receive. If someone decides as an adult that they want to believe in God or Buddha or any other higher power, well that's absolutely fine, but they shouldn't be pushing these beliefs as facts on those that can't discern the difference. In a perfect world there would be no desire for religion, but we don't live in a perfect world. Many people fear many things and religions offer them answers to these fears (of course in many cases they also encourage them at the same time). My goal with this thread was to get people to think about religion in context, to not allow the view they were raised with to cloud their judgement now. I hope that clarifies things. Aaron