Aaron

C T you're avoiding the topic. With what is known, why would a compassionate person choose to own a dog that has the potential to kill someone else? It seems to me that the answer is that they wouldn't. They would see the danger and avoid it. I hope that this thread might at least wake some people up to the danger of pit bulls and hopefully rotweillers and wolf-hybrids as well. When three types of dogs constitute 93% of the fatal dog attacks in one country alone, it seems like something should be done about it. I'm not saying put them all down, but ban them, license them, make it so they don't pose a danger to children. My nieces both own pit bulls. Both have been bitten by their dogs and swear that they are sweet and loving animals. With what I know now, I'm certain I wont step in a house with a pit bull. I would very much like to prevent myself from being the next statistic. Aaron

A friend of mine who is a teacher in High School said that most schools are trying to convert to tablet PCs in lieu of books within the next ten years. I'm not sure if this is as good as it sounds, especially without knowing the health risks it might pose to a developing child's vision, as well as things like carpal tunnel, etc. It's nice that they wouldn't have to cut down trees to make school books, but at the same time, I think they should make sure and investigate it before enacting it. This could be the Nintendo Gameboy 3d all over. Aaron

Tulku, Okay... you never mentioned why they spent so much on porn? Also there are nearly as many Chinese as all the other races combined, so it would make sense there were a lot of Chinese prostitutes. There are also, despite what you say, an awful lot of brothels, not just hostess clubs. Monks go to brothels on a regular basis, just as they have gay sex, masturbate, etc. The dirty truth is that there are very few practicioners that don't have sex now and again, it's just that, unlike here in the states, in the East it's not considered anyone else's bussiness. Maybe you should think about that? Is it really your bussiness if anyone else wants to have sex? Just because sex makes you feel dirty and guilty, doesn't mean it should make everyone feel that way. Let go of your desire to make everyone else feel as miserable as you and instead go out and do something active. Soccer and basketball are lots of fun. You are really wasting your youth on worrying about something that doesn't need to be worried about. Aaron

I'm assuming you're missing a very important point, no amount of compassion will get rid of the traits pit bulls are bred for. They are bred to be fearless, which is why they don't back down, even from dogs bigger than them, to show no sign of attack, which helped them to win in dog fights, and to continue to attack until the animal (or person) they're attacking is dead. This isn't made up, it's documented by the original breeders. It takes very little time to breed a dog to be like this, within a few generations you can have a literal killing machine and that's exactly what pit bulls seem to be. Again, the reason you see so many incidents of apparently well behaved dogs turning on their owners or children is because of what I pointed out above. In regards to your own dog, if you know it bites and you have small children in your house, then who is responsible for the dog biting those small children? You or the dog? It seems you take responsibility for your dog, which is good, but keep in mind not everyone does. The reason I started this topic was because I was being chased down by a pit bull a few days ago on my bike, only to be saved by another larger dog that came after it, diverting its attention so I could get away. The dog is a neighbor's and I drove by yesterday and saw it off the leash in their front yard. Obviously they don't believe their dog is a threat, but I feel otherwise. They're not acting responsibly and I honestly believe it's only a matter of time before it attacks someone, I just hope it doesn't do too much damage. I also think if they know it's a danger to others and they don't do anything, they should be criminally liable for their dog's actions. Aaron

Apparently this is shown through the need for same sex trains to prevent men from molesting female passengers and of course the abundance of pornography. Korea and Japan buy more pornography than nearly every other country on the face of the Earth combined (USA is third)... check it out if you don't believe me. I would suggest looking for another country of purity, perhaps Iceland or Norway? With that said, there are a large number of high level practitioners in Japan, these same practitioners are well known visitors of the brothels there. No one really cares it seems, it's just how it is over there. In Japan as long as you don't flaunt your impropriety, no one really cares, that's the real secret to their high level practice. Maybe you should take a page from their book, it might help you with your own fixation on sex. Aaron

I just wanted to mention that I read C T's recommended reading for VMarco, then went and read the other things I could find on the internet, and I would like to say I'm somewhat informed now and what I know scares the shit out of me. Pit bulls are a freaking deadly dog. Facts that scared me- 1) Pit Bulls and rottweilers account for around 75% of all FATAL dog attacks in the United States alone. Hybrid Wolves account for up to 18%. (For those who want the actual breakdown, this adds up to around 64% of all fatal attacks by Pit Bulls (and hybrid pit bulls), 18% by hybrid wolves, 11 percent by rottweilers, and 7% by other dog breeds). 2) Pit Bulls and other fighting dogs are bred so they do not telegraph their attack. In other words they may be getting agitated and ready to attack, but you can't tell until they've already gone into attack mode. 3) Pit Bulls have such strong jaws they can literally crush bone. The reason their attacks are so dangerous is because they attack much like a shark, gripping something then shaking it. It's the vicious nature of this attack that causes most people to die, most often from a severed artery. In other words, don't worry about the size of the dog, a 6 month old pit bull can quite easily kill an adult male. 4) Pit Bulls got their name from their intended job, which was to fight in pits. Prior to 1835 they were commonly used in gambling halls to attack bulls (which is where the bull in their name comes from). They would send a pack of dogs into the arena and bet how long it would take for them to kill the bull. In 1835 they banned this practice in England, but still allowed rat baiting and dog fighting, which is why they started to breed the characteristics that made for a good fighting dog, no-telegraph attacks, locking jaws, and shake attacks. 5) The majority of attacks on children occur when the child comes into contact with a dog he or she has not met before. Experts on both sides of the issue advise that under no circumstances should anyone with children expose their children to a pit bull, especially not one they don't know. The fact that you find very few breeders that recommend the pit bull as a family dog, tells me something is up with this breed. There are only a few other breeds that receive this type of warning and none of them with the same vehemence from both advocates and opponents as the Pit Bull does (the rottweiler is a close second). In closing, I don't care how kind, loving, happy, and "good" a pit bull is, knowing these characteristics about the dog tells me that anyone that is compassionate, that is aware of these things, would most likely think twice before ever selecting a vicious dog as a pet. Aaron

The problem with the vicious breeds of dogs is that they're bred for temperament, so they can be friendly and nice and playful, but when something happens that clicks that violent instinct they react. What you hear time and time again is that the dog that killed the child, elderly man, pregnant woman, etc. was not a "bad" dog, but friendly and well behaved. The issue is that the dogs are bred to dominate those they view as being weaker than them. Their behavior isn't the same as say a saint bernard or golden retriever. These dogs were originally used for violent purposes, guarding homes, hunting animals, etc. but in some cases they were bred to fight, and they were bred to do this for CENTURIES, not just recently. Trying to domesticate these dogs is incredibly risky, because it would require many generations of breeding them with other dogs with mild temperaments. Evidence of this phenomena can be seen in the breeding of Doberman pincshcers in the United States, compared to their European counterparts. The American Dobermans tend to be calmer and less prone to aggression. This only occurred after their demand as a work dog lessened and they became a popular pet. Breeders made a concerted effort to breed them for their disposition, which eventually led to the disparity in temperament in the breed between the two continents. With that said, even today they are not recommended for families with children. The most successful methods for training these types of dogs has to do with dominance, ensuring that the owner is considered the pack leader. The problem is that someone who is physically disadvantaged, such as a child, is not seen as a pack leader in these environments, but rather as an equal, hence the propensity for attacks on children. In the same way, the elderly and sick can lack the physical strength needed to project this dominant position, hence the reason you hear of many attacks on the elderly, pregnant women, and sick. In fact many times when the rescue workers arrive at the scene of one of these attacks, the dogs are not violent towards them, because they view the individual's confident demeanor and physical strength as a sign of dominance. The continued advocacy of certain breeds of dogs as holding no more threat to the public, than say a labrador retriever, is not only irresponsible, but untrue, and is most often professed by owners and breeders. The scientific community time and time again has found this not to be true, and most responsible breeders refuse to sell these dogs to families with small children, in many cases for fear of legal responsibility if the dog should attack a child. Being aware of these things, one could say that a compassionate person could own a vicious dog breed, but also it would be highly unlikely that they would own one if they were educated about these dogs and knew it would put others in danger. For instance if you live next to a playground or elementary school owning a vicious dog breed would be highly irresponsible, because there is no way you can be one-hundred percent certain that the dog will not get out and pose a risk to someone. Remember this has nothing to do with training, but rather bred behavioral temperament and instinct. The most well-behaved pit-bull still poses a significant threat to those it does not view as a pack leader, especially if the pack leader is not present to reign in those instincts. Aaron edit- Something else to keep in mind is that simply positioning one's self as the pack leader through the use of dominance and punishment is not necessarily removing the violent traits within a dog, but rather suppressing them. This is one of the reasons many noted trainers disagree with trainers like Cesar Millan who use these methods, because the use of choke chains is only forcing the dog into submission, not actually treating the behavior. Even supplemented with behavioral training, the fact that the dog has been bred to react instinctually to certain stimuli means that they will remain a risk, regardless of the amount of training they receive.

Three or four years ago I rarely had the opportunity to talk to other people that were interested in Eastern philosophy. Up until then I had a very egocentric view of what Taoism was and what it meant, for that matter what the world meant. I was well read and had a decent practical knowledge of Taoism, but it was really through the insight of others that my awareness of certain things blossomed and I had sudden and sometimes gradual insight into the nature of things. Before that time I believed that there was a higher power, a greater force that consciously controlled what happened in the universe and I believed that my purpose was to allow that higher power to work through me, rather than do what I wanted in this world. To a certain extent I still believe this, only my definition of the higher power has changed. I mention these things because I believe that they are some of the first steps to a greater realization that most people must come to before they are able to become enlightened or aware of their true nature, in fact the steps are almost universal, but at the same time the arrival at these steps can vary depending on the person. The first step is understanding that we are not the center of the universe, prior to this, there is little hope for achieving any form of greater awareness, simply because the desire for a greater awareness does not form, because we mistakenly believe we are already aware. The second step usually comes to be as we become aware of our own place within the universe and accept it. We understand that the world is not so much about us, but rather that there is something greater to it than that. When we understand this then it is only natural to desire a fuller understanding of what that something is. The third step is trying to understand what that something is, to open ourselves up to the possibility of something more than what we just perceive. When we do this we start to seek out paths that might grant us some knowledge of what that something might be, most often through examining the world's religions. The fourth step is settling on what that greater something is and devoting ourselves to learning more about it through research and eventually, when research is not enough, practicing those religions. This is a very important time in our lives, because it is also the time when we should be most open to other possibilities. Oftentimes people reach this step and stick to the first religion or philosophy that makes sense to them, sometimes one based on our culture, sometimes not. In my own experience as a Lao Tzu Taoist I closed myself off to many other traditions and as a result limited my potential in understanding the world on a greater scale. It is a sad fact that when we limit ourselves to one perceived idea of truth, that we are actually confining ourselves within a lie, because eventually, if we reach a certain degree of awareness then we begin to understand that every religion seems to have unraveled a piece of the puzzle, even those that we tend to discard. Take for instance Christianity. For a long time I discounted it as being worthless on the whole, but I understand now that certain aspects of Christianity touch on a greater awareness of being. For instance the 'Lord's Prayer' is an excellent example of how one should practice as a Taoist or Buddhist... for those who might not remember it, it goes like this- "Our Father which art in heaven, Hollowed be they name, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, And forgive us our trespasses, As we forgive those who trespass against us. Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil, For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever and ever. Amen" If one discounts Christianity then they'll also discount certain pearls of wisdom that exist within this prayer. For instance it teaches us to turn our will and lives over to the care of God, or if you wish the universe, to ask only for what we need, no more, to not ask for forgiveness, if we cannot forgive others, and to look for guidance, but most importantly it tells us that God is everything in existence, the power (or Chi) that exists within all things, and the glory (or virtue) as well, and that it is eternal. In Taoism we are told to trust in the Tao, to focus on our needs, rather than our wants, to be compassionate to our fellow man, and that the Tao is the creator of all things and that everything in existence stems from it. We also understand that by following the path of Tao we will be able to resist temptation and be delivered from evil... not too dissimilar. One could ask, why bother to try to understand this prayer, if the Tao Te Ching already tells us this? Well it's because it's a different take on the experience that allows us a greater understanding of what all of this means. Even if we don't believe in God, the concepts within the prayer can benefit us in understanding exactly how we can live a virtuous and harmonious life. Well I don't have much time left to type, so I'm going to stop there, but what I'm getting at is that many of us need to be open to the notion that our own individual path might not hold the entire truth that exists and that confining ourselves to it is limiting our own potential. The key is often seeing things from another perspective. In my own experience I never understood the greater totality of experience until I learned about Vendanta. It was through Vedanta, Taoism, Christianity, and Buddhism that I started to gain insight into my own place within the grand scheme of things. I look forward to comments. Aaron

I'm having enough trouble just walking these days, the thought of riding an ox is a bit more than I can handle. Thanks though... Aaron

I was actually bitten by a german sheppard when I was nine. My parents had just gotten the dog a few months earlier. My mom asked me to get the food bowl to feed it, I ran out and went to grab it and it bit me on the hand. Hurt like hell. My parent's got rid of the dog the next day, but I was left with a phobia of dogs up until about 3 years ago. I think most people don't understand the damage a dog can do. If I had children, there would be no way I'd have a large dog around them. Lets be honest, regardless of where you live, at least once a month you hear some story about someone in the area being attacked by a dog, but you never hear them being struck by lightening. I'm thinking that may be an illogical comparison, unless of course it's a liberal media cover up. Aaron edit- Also, if Pit Bulls are no more dangerous than any other dog, why does the CDC say they're the most common dog involved in fatal attacks? Hmm... that must mean that there are lots of different dogs involved in fatal attacks, but maybe they just inched out the poodle? Who knows?

For a second I thought you were talking about the pregnant woman from last year who was apparently killed in her sleep by an adopted pit bull. She was an advocate and ran some organization, I can't remember the name. Well I guess statistically speaking you're much more likely to be killed by a pit bull as a pit bull advocate, then you are to be struck by lightning... who would've known? Aaron

I'm sorry, but I had to laugh when I heard you say this, if only because I heard the same thing, a bit less vulgar mind you, from a preacher as a young teen. It seems that we're not supposed to masturbate because if we do, we're coveting someone, although I'm not sure how fantasy is real in that sense, maybe it's just me being logical... sigh. Oh and of course having sex with someone who wants to have sex with you is wrong too, unless you're married. If someone has sex with another person's wife, and the wife consented because she was unhappy with her husband and needed physical contact, does that make her a bad person, or the man who had sex with her a bad person? Your reasoning is flawed, I'm sure you can see that, but if you want to pop up some more scenarios, I'd be happy to address them as well. Aaron

No I'm not sure, just an estimate with no basis on fact... perhaps it's better to say the VAST majority find it through religion and philosophy. Remember AA is an excellent example of a philosophy turned religious. I don't think many people who have experience with AA would deny that it is very much a religion. Aaron

No they become enlightening. Bwahahaha Aaron

Alright, then make amends for what you've done to the best of your ability. Talk to those people involved honestly and tell them how you feel and what your part in this is, then tell them that you're sorry. If you make a sincere amends you're taking the first step towards resolving the issue. Remember it's very important that we take responsibility for the harm we've caused others, directly and indirectly. If we don't then this harm can come back to haunt us later. Aaron

Do you see the phrase in my signature? Do no harm to yourself or others. I think that maybe you think you have to act, but why? There's no one forcing you to do anything. You may have to make a decision, but it doesn't mean that you have to hurt one and the other, perhaps just refusing to take part in the conflict at all might be the best course of action. If you step back and let things play out between the people fighting, then you haven't harmed anyone and no one can harm you. In the case of arguments, sometimes this is the best course of action to take. Of course there is always the opportunity to make amends and more often than not when those amends are sincere, then the party involved, if they were truly your friend in the first place, will accept the amends and your decision to not get involved. I would say that if you know these people, then you're really the only one that can decide what you need to do, so take my advice with a grain of salt, since the world is rarely black and white, but often times a bit grey. Aaron

What I was touching on, wasn't what enlightenment was, but rather what propels people's towards achieving it. I think if we're willing to drop concrete terminologies like spirit and enlightenment and instead allow ourselves to examine things with an open mind, we can see how many of the experiences that occur throughout the spectrum of religions is similar, that the only thing that changes them is the definitions. I'm not even saying one must follow a religion, just that 99.99% of the time, that's how people are inspired to seek something greater. Aaron

You seem to be biased to one extreme, this is what I was talking about when I said, being confined within a lie, because you fail to see that much of the study that came down the line isn't crap at all, but it stems from realizations regarding virtue and awareness. We all enter this world as followers, we must follow in order to learn, there's nothing wrong with being a follower. Now there will always be lies within the religion, that's because most are manipulated in a way to ensure that society is malleable and obedient. This doesn't mean that the religion's themselves don't possess something worth investigation, to discount the foundation of the practice because of the institutions they've become is silly and will inevitably prevent you from being able to see awareness from more than just your own egocentric view. Aaron

Heh... well I'm sure it's not the first time I've pissed you off and it wont be the last. I'm also pretty sure you'll forgive me. I did see the first point as an expansion of mine, but only because I had thought about what you were talking about and didn't have the time to add it, so I alluded to it. I've been working 10+ hour days for the last week and I don't have as much time as I used to to write (or read). If someone chooses to use your ideas to expand their own, that's a compliment, because they saw something valuable enough to add to their own ideas. No need to take offense. I'm sorry if it upset you. I do like your honesty though, never mince words. It's nice when someone actually tells you ahead of time that they're starting to upset you, rather than wait and let it all out in one long stream of anger. I spent time among sheep in Maine when I was a child at a small farm near the outskirts of Dover-Foxcroft. I was actually quite frightened of them, because they were always running around in a herd and I was certain they would trample me. They also had pigs, cows, and goats. I remember that the farmer who raised the sheep would whistle when it was time to bring the sheep to the pen and the dogs would run out and gather them up and bring them down to where they spent the nights. That's why I mentioned my sheep analogy. Anyways, it's a nice memory and perhaps an idealistic analogy, but still some food for thought. Have a good night. Aaron

Hello VMarco, I think we both know by now I'm not so concerned with paths. I agree, if a book has wisdom to offer, then accept that wisdom, but at the same time it is important to consider the intention of the manuscript as well. I personally found the passage you quoted to be an excellent example of the similarities between Buddhism and Taoism. I would not even discount what it said, even if I might not find the terms palatable to my sensibilities. I think the important thing is to be open to suggestions, to not get so hung up on one idea that we discount every other idea that comes along. I once read somewhere that a Zen Master read the "Sermon on the Mount" and said, that it was a wonderful piece and that Jesus was obviously enlightened. Did the Zen Master believe in God? No, but he could see past that to the underlying message and from that garner the extent of the speaker's knowledge. We need to remember that the constructs we create are only created so that we can reference what we know to be true within the duality of existence, that in non-duality there are no words to describe it sufficiently, so the best we can do is lay down a path for one to make it there. Namaste Aaron

Very good points K, I think what you're doing here is expanding on my points in step four, that we should not limit ourselves to only what is within our path, but be open to those answers that lay beyond it. A wise man sees how little he knows and is willing to learn, he understands that he is a fool and being content with being a fool is humble enough to accept wisdom when it is presented to him. No one should be a sheep except sheep. Of course I think sheep have a greater consciousness than just eating grass too, but what we can learn from sheep is the ability to trust that others may have something to offer us and within this trust find out one of the greater realizations that exist. Before we can trust ourselves, we must first trust others. A sheep's life depends on trusting that, not only will the other sheep protect them from the wolves by sounding an alarm when they are near, but also the shepherd himself. They trust that the sheep dog knows where to take them and when they wander off, more often than not, when the shepherd calls for them, they come to him. A wise teacher is a good shepherd. He does not need to hit the sheep for them to follow them, he only needs to show that he cares for their well being. If in our path we find someone who does not exhibit these qualities, then surely we should seek another flock to take refuge in. Of course there are other ways to live as well, we could easily be like the wolf or lion, but in my opinion, all three survive because they depend on each other. A good question to ask ourselves is who do we depend on? Aaron

Well we both know that doesn't mean you're where other people are supposed to be. Aaron

There is nothing beyond perception and non-perception. Nothing exists. Consciousness effects the existence of everything, even down to the smallest particles. It is only when we perceive something that it comes into being, that is why it is so silly to call things sinful or evil, since the only thing that makes it so is your perception of it. Aaron

I'm certain he is following Taoism as a religion, what I'm talking about is Taoism as it was taught by Lao Tzu. I think anyone that understands the history of Taoism in China realizes that there are numerous traditions that teach varying beliefs regarding what is Taoism and what is not. In Flowing Hands case, he is not really a member of any of these traditions it seems, but rather he claims to be from a secret sect directed by immortals and that he came back to this world after achieving enlightenment and nirvana/bliss, all to save humanity. He also claims to have been taught by the monkey god and immortals, and yet he wants us to accept this on faith. I have very little time for faith and I don't see any reason to believe that his translation of the Tao Te Ching or his comments regarding Taoism are accurate, even to the many different sects of Taoism. Rather he comes here believing that every Westerner is ignorant and that he can say something and we'll automatically accept it in our ignorance. I'm calling him out and asking him to prove what he has to say, to walk the walk, and not just talk. I am more than willing to walk the walk. Ask anyone who interacts with me at work or my daily life whether I would be considered a compassionate person, and I doubt anyone would say no. I strive to be compassionate, but that doesn't mean I have to be naive or not defend myself and others against baseless claims. Aaron