Aaron

You're absolutely right, a member clean up, or banning of members that don't agree with other members, regardless of whether they've violated the terms of service is... completely irresponsible and ridiculous. Nothing has happened in this thread that's any more significant than any other thread in the past. People just need to chill out and not take this so seriously. So I disagree with Flowing Hands and his representation of who he is, I have that right. So Tulku believes sex is preventing people from becoming enlightened or evolving spiritually, he has that right. Flowing Hands has the right to believe he's the chosen one of the immortals as well, and apparently to threaten that they will be coming after me for interfering in their plans. I'm not holding my breath, but regardless there is nothing wrong with any of us, we have a right to disagree and state whatever we want within the limits of the terms of service. Tolerance and patience only go so far. If someone is running around murdering people, do we have tolerance and patience for them? Sometimes action is required to prevent others from being harmed. If I see someone's teaching as being potentially harmful and do nothing about it, then what kind of compassionate being am I? Aaron edit- Also I don't believe in karma or dharma, rather I believe in striving for harmonious living as much as possible. Karma and Dharma are essentially the methods of controlling people's actions in Buddhism and Hinduism, just like sin helps to dictate people's actions in Christianity. Also keep in mind if Flowing Hands just quit responding to what's being said, then I wouldn't be continuing the conversation. As the emissary of immortals, I'd think he'd have the wisdom to see that little bit of Tao.

I not only claim, but I am confident I have a much better understanding of the Tao Te Ching than Flowing Hands. I read his translation, I've read his discussions, and I think most ten year olds that read his interpretation would see it for what it is. It's not that complex really, I just see someone who has decided to translate something to support his own agenda, for whatever reason. Maybe he wanted to be an instructor and he thinks this whole "immortal returned to save the world" routine will get him more students, either way, I'm not falling for it, nor am I going to sit back and let him lecture me on virtue. If you've noticed, I didn't make any comments about this until he felt the need to come and enter this discussion. I left him alone and was very happy to be in a harmonious existence, he's stirred the pot and I'm just working to stop the pot from stirring, which may require me to stir it in the opposite direction. I have no more animosity towards him than I do a five year old that comes by and picks one of the flowers in my yard because they think it's pretty. I may not have wanted it to be picked, but the child was only doing what they thought was right, however that doesn't stop me from educating that child in regards to why I don't want them picking my flowers. Aaron

Umm... two people becomes so many? Maybe it's not so many, so much as a few who want everyone to hug and hand out flowers and giggle and love each other. My mind isn't that closed, rather I see your interpretation of Tao as being flawed and created to validate your own distorted view of the world, which I see as dangerous, since anyone who follows your ideas is probably in for a world of confusion. Even with that said, I left you alone out of respect, because I saw it as only minimally dangerous and also realized most people would see through your BS right away. However, when you come on here and start criticizing me and deciding to teach me the values of virtue, when you bicker just as easily as anyone else on this forum, I had to laugh and step up and give you a bit of a reality check. Also I don't believe that anyone that transcends this world can or would come back, there is no reason to. Nothing you do or I do can save someone else, because they DON'T NEED TO BE SAVED! That's your ego believing you are somehow special and that your involvement in their life will help them. Here's a little biology lesson, the ego being that is you, resides within the brain cells of your body. When you die you can't take them with you to the next body, hence the reason people don't remember their previous lives. The energy that makes you up, Chi, whatever you want to call it, well that has no memory in it, just the life force/spirit that is you. So you were never an immortal in a previous life, nor did you make a conscious decision to come back, because outside of your body that kind of consciousness doesn't exist, rather you were a source of energy that invested itself within a human shell upon conception. Nothing more and nothing less. I hope that clarifies things. Aaron

Oh wow. You left bliss for me? Have you heard of Jesus, he left heaven to do the same thing. I guess I should be thankful that you would sacrifice so much to save us unworthy unappreciative souls. I mean how often do I get the chance to actually talk to a savior, I guess I should be more respectful, because you wouldn't lie about such a thing. <---- Sarcasm to show how absurd your claims are. I would suggest that you need to examine your life and the reason why you feel you need to be more than just a normal person. If you examine your motivations and trace them back to their roots, I think you'll find that at some point you didn't receive enough attention and now you're trying to make up for that in an exaggerated fashion. I don't blame you for believing what you do, but I would recommend some serious introspection, because it can't be helping you in the long run, nor will duping others into believing your delusions help them. Aaron

Hmm... I think you might want to learn more about Buddhism than just what you've found on Wikipedia and Youtube? Jerard already explained to you in your other BS thread, that the Buddha actually discouraged these kinds of things. Oh wait, that's probably on Wikipedia... okay you need to pay more attention to what you're reading on Wikipedia and stop watching so much Youtube. Aaron

Are you so naive as to believe that we are immoral because of science? Pornography has been around for as long as man has been around, just not as movies and such. The Romans were notorious for the debauchery, stuff that would make anything out there today pale in comparison. This is just an excuse by the right wing religious fanatics to justify their reasons for instilling guilt for a very basic action. Did you know that nearly all men on the face of the Earth have masturbate, yet you are so confident that it's some kind of flaw in our being? Does nature, the Tao, or anything else you might want to call it, create such flaws? Lust is instilled within us so we will procreate, it's man that's decided that it's a sin, not nature. The drive to procreate is natural and supposed to be there, just as we all learn to masturbate, the vast majority without anyone explaining the process to them, so to we learn the basics of sex without being taught, because it is a natural part of our being. The interesting thing is that the most deviant among us tend to gravitate towards religion, most because they believe God, righteousness, or enlightenment will free them from that deviancy and make them pure and normal again, yet the question we should be asking ourselves is "what is normal?" Are homosexuals abnormal? Are transsexuals abnormal? How about people attracted to feet or food, or numerous other things? The problem with sciences exploration of human sexuality is that they rarely study it outside the confines of social and religious mores, so they blind themselves to the totality of it. I see religion's influence on sexuality as a blight, they tell us we're bad because we want to do something, but that would mean nearly all men are bad? That sounds like a good way to manipulate people into believing they're flawed and need something more to make them good, doesn't it? I see it here on nearly a weekly basis, some young man who is trying so hard to give up sex because they believe it's wrong to desire women (or men), when in fact there is nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with sexual desire at all. The fact that so many of the 'wise' have chosen to stay out of this thread tells me they know they'll lose this argument. It would be so horrible for religions if there wasn't sexual deviancy or a sinful nature, because then who would they trick into believing they needed to be saved? Aaron

Thank you! Aaron edit- Oh and Flowing Hands has said in other threads that he is or has been an immortal. I don't just make this stuff up you know.

Hahaha... I actually wrote a longer explanation before I decided to just point out that you should examine your own responses to others. I'm not going to do it for you, but you're not so clad in white either my friend. Heh... And I'm rarely every insulting or rude, I just point out what I believe needs to be pointed out. Tulku is harmful to himself and others. Flowing Hands is, in my opinion, not an immortal. I didn't even bother talking to Flowing Hands about that, until he came on and admonished me for my misunderstanding of Taoism. I don't just randomly pick people to admonish, they have to do something I feel is harmful to get my attention. If you hang around long enough you'll see that. Aaron

That's your first problem, you're trying to follow the Tao, but it can't be followed. When you understand what this means, then you'll start to understand what Lao Tzu was talking about. Or maybe the monkey god can explain it to you, that might be easier. Aaron

I guess I don't take people spouting off truths without examining them to be truths. A lot of people seem to appreciate what I do, so the few detractors should be aware that without conflict there can be no peace. If you want to get down to the nitty gritty of it all, there just is, everything else is something we've placed a value to. You value your peace, but is it really even peace? I'm particularly annoyed by people who know the truth, since every truth is a lie. So they spout their truth, but what good is it doing? I am merely sharing my understanding of the Tao, and I have yet to see anyone that's disproved my interpretations. If you want peace, so be it, If you want me to go, just say the word. I am not going to stay someplace where I am not wanted, there's so much to do and not do and my purpose here isn't to breed conflict or bicker, but call people on what I see as baseless accusations, prophecies, and beliefs, especially ones that might cause people harm. Belief is the real problem here. Stop believing and just start doing and I think you'll find peace will find it's way, but of course you need to understand that beneath that peace there will always be conflict. You can't have one without the other. Aaron

This is an excerpt from an article by Chris Moody at "The Ticket". It's about the republican's response to Obama urging states to require students to stay in school until they're eighteen or graduate... "WASHINGTON -- High school dropouts, do not fear. The Republican Party will protect you from Barack Obama's efforts to keep you at your desk. At his third State of the Union Address Tuesday night, the president challenged all states to ban children from dropping out of high school before they turn 18. "Tonight," Obama bellowed, "I am proposing that every state--every state--requires that all students stay in high school until they graduate or turn 18." Obama wasn't proposing a new federal program, but his use of the bully pulpit to tell local jurisdictions how to run their school districts was enough to make some Republicans, already sensitive to the increasing role of the federal government in education over the past few years, bristle. "That's none of his business!" said Utah Republican Sen. Mike Lee while speaking to reporters after the speech. "He's not a principal! He's not a public school teacher! He's not a governor, he's not a mayor. These are matters for state and local government." Standing in Statuary Hall outside the House chamber, Lee, a senator whose rise to prominence was propelled by the tea party, went on to say that there was plenty in Obama's speech that made him want to scream, but he held his tongue. "I did not want to be Joe Wilson!" Lee said. Meanwhile, Joe Wilson, who shouted "You Lie!" during a presidential address in 2009, was standing directly behind him, about three feet away..." Oh gosh... that has got to be the funniest thing I've read in the news in years. You can read the rest of the story here! Aaron

I'm not a Buddhist. Compassion is easing someone else's suffering. That may require allowing someone to suffer first or even causing suffering, so that in the grand scheme they might be free of what is causing them to suffer. Sometimes if someone else is causing others to suffer, then you have to decide what to do with them. I'm making a compassionate decision based on these things. Lacking the teaching of the monkey god, I have to behave as a normal person who has simply grown up in one life time would. Also, I think your grasp of Taoism is rudimentary. You have an understanding, but only those things that remain on the surface. Perhaps in certain circles you impress people, but you don't impress me. Again, I haven't spoken up about this or your claims of being an immortal because I didn't feel it was necessary, but since you are attacking my own understanding, I think it's important to make clear that you may have yourself fooled, but that doesn't mean you're fooling anyone else. There are many people on here I would be willing to learn from, you however aren't one of them. You're brand of Taoism strays from the authentic teachings. Of course since you've been ordained by the Gods I suppose you have a right. If you want to continue to push, I will be more than willing to push back, but I don't think this is a fight you'll win, so I would suggest you go back to your corner and talk with those people who find you fashionably quaint. Aaron

Why must you visit Rome? That's the first question you must answer. Second, why are the sites so important? The issues we have derive from our desire for more than what we need. Why learn something you don't need, but only want? Many people practice qigong with no intention of self-discovery or introspection, no desire to learn the Mystery of Mysteries, only a desire for power. Even worse is when they are tricked into believing in immediate enlightenment or awareness. This kind of awareness can never come without deeper introspection, because the key lies, not without, but within. The sage stays with the baggage cart because he has everything he needs right there. Some are ready to accept this, others aren't. Aaron

I'm getting on very early before work and I only have a few minutes to respond, so this wont be lengthy. Wrong and right are subjective experiences and if you had paid attention to what I was saying, you would realize that. In reality we apply a value to the object or thought, but it doesn't mean that value changes the object or thought. I have spent nearly twenty years trying to expound upon and improve upon Lao Tzu's ideas. I haven't been able to, nor was Chuang Tzu or anyone else that came along. Certain people got it right the first time and he was one of them. I don't admonish people for learning. If you're an electrician you need to learn the skills of your trade, what I admonish is people learning merely to fill their head with more knowledge or to show how much they know. Also actions are much more important that words. Most of the discussions on here serve no real purpose other than to stroke our egos. In real practice you learn just as much by watching as you do listening. You obviously have a very large vocabulary and I doubt I could compete with your intellect, so let me be kind enough to bow out now, since I've been wrong on all counts anyways. I'd hate to waste your time since you know what it's all about already. Aaron

Not in a long, long, long time. Like 20 years to be exact. Except for "The Book", which I read a couple years ago. That book was quite profound. No, regardless of what Watts might've said, there's no path, you are already here. Aaron

I may lack your apparent centuries of understanding so I can only make judgements based on what I've done in this lifetime. I'm not going to argue about whether you're immortal or not, it doesn't really matter to me, I was just pointing it out because it's seemed to support my idea that people like to come up with a self identity that makes them feel special. Also, the fact is compassion is sometimes hitting someone with a hammer, rather than stroking their back and telling them they're a good boy. Aaron

I wanted to clarify some things about the quoted passage, even though I may not agree that Lao Tzu said this, the meaning is clear and relevant to my earlier comments regarding the three jewels. The three different types of energy correspond to the three jewels and are achieved by practicing them. Earth energy is equal to frugality, and it speaks of understanding the differences between needs and wants, which is achieved through understanding the objective nature of reality, that everything just is, that any value placed upon things is an illusion. Heaven Energy corresponds to Compassion, which is achieved through understanding the suffering of others and doing what we can to stop it. Harmonizing energy corresponds to "never striving to be first in the world" or not competing, simply being and allowing others to be. It doesn't matter what practice one endeavors to train in, if one does not master these three jewels in their own life, understanding the full depth of each, they will never be able to achieve more than a passing understanding of all three and hence, will only achieve partial understanding of the mystery of mysteries. Aaron

Its just the connotation, the broadening of meaning which tends to happen around this sentiment I oppose.One Might as well just tell folks to give up understanding others and the world around them. I believe A similar sentiment led to the 'Programs' of Pol-pot .. that intellectualism was a problem and everyone would be better off digging in the mud for a living. You strike me as well read ,Lao and Zhuang also are reputed to have been, It doesnt ring clear to me for any of ya'll to decry intellectualism. Admittedly one cant learn Karate from a manual alone, it has to be done also. But it doesnt mean that the manual is not of great potential help. But Yeah-sir , there is a time to walk the walk Regarding ..continuing a thread beyond the point at which new stuff is is being said , sure, its probably not helping much. Time for fresh stuff. I've seen a lot of people come on to the board with their own ideas about what Taoism is. If you want to lump Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu with Pol Pot, that's fine, but I think you have a very weak understanding of what Taoism is about. It's not a path for one thing, that's your Western dichotomy trying to grasp an alien principal. In Taoism there is no path, you are already there, you just need to open your eyes and see it. The sage stays with the baggage cart, while everyone else walks about looking at the pretty sights, because he has everything he needs right there. Open your eyes, quit walking down the path and you'll see that. Be done with knowledge. I hope you can grasp what that means before you waste too much time realizing it, if you even can realize it, most can't. Aaron

Perhaps I lack your intellect, but for me, it was rather obtuse. I intended the original post to be provocative, so that's fine. This isn't a new topic, so I will admit I had a general idea of what to expect, but to be completely honest, this thread was perhaps the most compassionate on the topic I've seen so far. I am not religious at all. I eschew all religions. I have studied Taoism and agree with the philosophy, but I don't advocate religious Taoism at all. I would not consider myself an atheist either, more of an agnostic, in that I believe in a universal or quantum consciousness. I don't remember saying 'talking about subjects is useless', but rather that there is some point where our egos propel us to continue a topic, when there's no need to do so. Also actions are much more useful than words because they demonstrate our sincerity. There are people that talk about meditation, compassion, and practice, and then there are people who practice those things. That's really the difference. Be done with knowledge... that's the one thing I was encouraging people to remember. Aaron

Hello Vmarco, I did a little research and here are your options. When you're ready to find a new service what you'll want to do is call Verizon and get the International Mobile Equipment Identity (IMEI) number for your phone from their customer service department. Once you have this number you can give it to the customer service of whatever phone company you decide to transfer to (except for Sprint, they don't use SIM cards) and have them give you the code to unlock your phone. Be wary of online sites because they are often scams. If the new company says they can't unlock your phone because it's an exclusive Verizon model (which it is) you can most likely find the unlock code on Ebay for a few dollars. The problem that arises is that your phone may not be completely compatible with the AT&T (and the T-Mobile networks, so you may have issues with data and such, for instance some smart phones designed to work on one network, can't be recognized by the second network, so the person will be charged for data, even though they have a plan. If you have trouble finding the code, let me know and I'll see if there's anything else I can do. Aaron P.S. I worked in customer service for a major cell phone company for years, so this information should be accurate.

Okay, from what I hear you saying, here's the difference, I actually practice hypnosis. I create induction techniques, lead guided meditations, do past life regressions, help friends quit smoking, and the list goes on. For me hypnosis is like qigong for others, it's a practice. Guided meditation (as it's practiced by most new age healer types) is a lot different from meditation, so comparing the two is like comparing stretching exercises with acrobatics. When you come in here with all this, "well there are better ways to deal with it" bullshit, it really pisses me off. Lets check which practice they're actually using in the medical field these days, not only in outpatient, but cancer clinics, dental offices, physical training, and also surgery... is it qigong? Is it guided meditation? No, it's hypnosis! Hypnosis works if the person doing the induction knows what they're doing. You've obviously gotten some nice tapes that you enjoy, but if you need pain relief for the long term, you'll actually need to get an induction geared towards that. Quit steering someone clear of a useful practice simply because you don't know enough about it or aren't able to utilize it. Aaron

It's too bad you left it behind, there is much more you can gain from it. It can really help with your meditation practice for instance. With continual practice you can practice self-hypnosis without even using a script, that's actually a convenient ability to have. A few years back I got in an accident and cut open an artery or major blood vessel near my eye brow. I was bleeding so much it was coming out in a steady stream. I used self-hypnosis to manage the pain and stay calm. My brother drove me to the nearest clinic in the area and I was lucky enough to find that the PA there was actually an emergency room physician from Russia. He said we didn't have time to take me to the hospital and sewed me up on the spot. It took thirteen stitches and he said the vessel/artery were shredded. He kept asking, "what were you hit with?" (It was actually a drill that was on full torque that slipped out of my hand and swung around and whacked me.) I sometimes wonder how much worse it would've been if I hadn't been able to use self-hypnosis to calm myself and ease the pain. I'm sure the added anxiety would've caused me to bleed much worse, if nothing else. Anyways z00se, I hope you don't give up on the idea of self-hypnosis, it really does work. Aaron

Why is everyone focusing on the freaking dog and not the context of the message, which is, what do you think world peace would look like? This is the reason competitiveness is bad, because even in a discussion about world peace someone has to say, "my world peace is better than yours." Those who practice Kung Fu or other martial arts might be interested in knowing that they weren't developed for war, but rather in order to defend one's self from other people who were warlike. In a world of peace, why would you need martial arts? In a world without competition why would you need to fight? In a world like that dogs wouldn't be needed to protect your house, you could leave your door unlocked and never have to worry about anyone coming in and harming you or anyone stealing your stuff. This thread isn't about the possibility of world peace, but rather the concept itself. In Taoism the three jewels are commonly referred to as, humility, self-control, and compassion, but in reality they are compassion, frugality, and never striving to be first in the world. Now the difference is very important because one says you should not think of yourself in vaulted terms, the other says, don't compete with others to be first. One cannot practice one jewel without practicing the others. One cannot give up competition if they aren't frugal and compassionate, nor can they be frugal without being compassionate and non-competitive, nor can one be compassionate if they aren't first non-competitive and frugal. Now don't take this to mean that there aren't incidents where a competitive person isn't compassionate, rather the general long term ability to practice the three requires that they all be practiced. I firmly believe that if we imagine a world where people practiced these jewels, we would see a peaceful world. Aaron

If you're happy with the phone that you have you can unlock it for any other cellphone company that uses the same type of chip. Sometimes it requires you to purchase a chip and have it unlocked at the store, other times you can buy the code from ebay or some other online shopping place. In regards to the different companies, I'd shop around, but to date AT&T is the best company in regards to coverage, customer service, and quality of service. I never have wifi simply because, as you stated it's so widely available I don't see the necessity. Something else you might want to consider is that you may not have to sign another contract, so it might benefit you to stay with verizon, especially if they're not going to increase your rate. If you can tell me the model of your phone, I'd be able to give you more information regarding this. Aaron

Who are you referring to? I'm thinking since you said "your topic" it's me, so If you're referring to me, then you've just stated everything I've already stated. In defense of Taoists, they aren't any different from members of any other religion (poke a Buddhist here and see what happens). I am not a Taoist by the way, but I've studied Taoism for a long long time and I'm confident that I have a practical understanding of Taoism. Now getting back to your final comment, I would ask how you can't see it in my argument, when you've essentially repeated what I've said? Perhaps you need to look a little deeper, because the crux of my argument is that no amount of spiritual awakening, enlightenment, or awareness will free us of the dualistic existence we live in. It will always come down to the fact that we are human and always will be human and as a result have to deal with being human. If you wanted to take it a step further I think the key is to accept our flaws and in accepting our flaws understand that what we perceive as flaws is merely because someone has told us that they are. If we can stop liking and disliking things about ourselves, then we are truly on the way to being at peace with who we are, then there is no need to even talk about issues anymore. Aaron