Aaron

Your neighbor is partly right. Up until the middle part of the twentieth century most people were intolerant of other races. Although I know racism and genocide was prevalent in the East, I don't know enough about the history of Asia to make a commentary on it, but in regards to the West, what I can say is that when one looks at history, what one finds is that people consistently judged others based on race, sex, religion, and even wealth. The Western world, for instance, didn't see slavery as being wrong until close to the middle of the nineteenth century. Even those who fought against it, abolitionists, weren't thinking of the slaves they were trying to free as equals, but rather as inferior people that deserved compassion. If you weren't racist before the mid-twentieth century, then you were probably raised in a cabin in the middle of nowhere and knew absolutely nothing about Western society. As an example of the extent of intolerance, keep in mind the Irish were persecuted when they first emigrated to the United States in the latter nineteenth and early twentieth century. Many were forced to take jobs that were traditionally performed by other minorities suffering discrimination, such as African Americans. People would destroy Irish camps and even lynch Irish men for crimes committed in the area, so it's not just people of other races and religions we are bigoted against. The fact of the matter is that for most of our existence, and some would say even currently, we have traditionally feared and loathed those who were different. In regards to self esteem, I think that only the term is modern, the idea has been taught to children in most cultures, at least on a national level and to a degree a personal level. I think in part, this notion of self esteem is responsible for a lot of the racism that went on and still goes on. Aaron

My brother goes to this cigar shop where he has a lot of friends. These friends are in constant competition with each other, not in an actual battle per se, but rather in a battle of appearances. They quantify their existence according to what they own and how much. They compare cutters, lighters, cigars, clothes, etc. None of them are ever winning, because it is always based on perceptions and even if most agree that someone has the most expensive cutter, someone invariably finds flaw in it. The problem that many have with spiritual pursuits is that they begin to quantify that experience, saying, "this experience was better than this one" or "I was closer to achieving enlightenment then, than I am now" and the list goes on. When we experience something it is our own experience and no one else's. If I decide my experience within light and silence was better than my awareness of the connection of all things in existence, then what I am doing, is not diminishing the potential or non-potential of each experience, but avoiding the actual experience because it was not enough to satisfy me. The key to being aware and learning is to be aware and learn, not to place value on what we learn, but accept that what we learn is merely what it is and that we cannot change what it actually is, only our perception of what it is. You are real because I observe you. I am real because you observe me, but in observing each other, that doesn't change that we exist because we realize our own existence, nor does that change the fact that our existence could be drastically different for us if we experience it in a different way, just understand that the person that experiences that in a drastically different way is no more you, then the you that experienced all those things in the past. The real you is here right now in this moment and that is what you should be searching for. Aaron

Hello K, I meant that if nothing is done to slow down the population growth, then the overpopulation of the world will be inevitable. If we don't want this to be inevitable, then the first thing I would recommend is to do what Blasto suggested and set up initiatives that reduce poverty globally and encourage contraceptives, but if that didn't seem to be able to solve the problem then other things might need to be done, including legally limiting the number of children that a person is allowed. I want to emphasize that I do not advocate abortion in any way shape or form, so my suggestion does not imply that if someone does have a child accidentally that they would be criminally negligent or be required to abort a child, what I'm saying is that people who intentionally had children would be held accountable in some way, maybe not even with jail time but higher taxes or something to that effect. The fact is currently you get a tax break for each child you have, which seems absurd to me (as does paying for education systems when I have no child of my own, but that's a different topic entirely.) I would never say that children should go hungry because their parents can't provide for them for instance, but I see full well the problems that could arise from instituting laws, that's why I think it would be much more beneficial for governments to advocate birth control methods that are humane, such as contraception and also the benefits of having a smaller family. I think we've actually decreased the average family size in the United States, not positive, but the key would be to reach out to those people in areas of the world where population growth is a big problem and educating them about the benefits of a small family. I would not think any kind of laws concerning family size would be needed until there was clear evidence that nothing else was slowing down population growth. Of course we could wait for the "inevitable" apocalypse that is going to occur because of the apparent collapse of western civilization due to a lack of fossil fuels, I'm sure billions will die as a result of that and then no more population problem (that was sarcasm by the way, the lowest form of humor, but sometimes it still feels right.) Aaron

That's possible, but it's also possible (and imo likely) that with the technological advances we're making, that we'll find solutions before the apocalypse happens. My argument isn't that we wont feel a crunch, but rather that it wont be the end of civilization, will civilization change, perhaps, but not to the extent that we devolve into manimals (m+animals) because of it. Anyways I'm out, so I hope by the time I get back everyone has come to a solution to the overpopulation issue, then all we need to do is let the United Nations know. Aaron

And now I can tell everyone I watched a Chinese movie clip in Spanish... which is almost as amazing as the scene. Aaron

I'm heading out of town on a job for a couple of days. I'm taking my I-Touch with me, so I'll check back if I can find an internet connection near my motel, in the meantime I really think this thread is going in the right direction. The fact that no one agrees is always a good sign that we're addressing all the possibilities. Aaron

Hello Anamatva, I'm not a big "fake it til you make it" kinda guy either, but I do see the practical applications in it. I have practiced it in the past, in particular in regards to dealing with people I'm angry at and despite the fact it sounded silly, it worked and still does. The method by the way is that you pray for the person you're angry with, that they have a good life and receive everything they desire. If you don't believe in prayer, then just consciously say something to that effect. In the end we each need to do what works best for us. I recommend things, even if I "know" that they work, simply because I am not fallible. In other words I try very hard not to say, "this is the only right answer and you need to do this!" Two books you might want to take a look at regarding intent and action are "The Book" by Allan Watts and "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot. Both give you a practical idea of the world and how our intentions and beliefs effect the actuality (or lack of) in the world. Aaron

I have to say, even though I might not agree that occupy wall street will have any lasting impact and that I also feel many don't understand what's actually going on, this is perhaps the best summation of the actual costs of corporate greed that I have seen yet in this thread. Good job Ralis. Aaron

Ahh... so I'm an authoritarian now or have you thought that perhaps I don't swoon over the idea, I just realize it's the only practical and humane solution. I am not saying it's the only solution either, only that it's the best solution I've thought of to date. It would be so nice if we could find another option, space travel and colonization of other worlds, etc. but the chances we'll be able to come up with those types of technologies before it's too late are slim, so I advocate something that seems natural. In regards to eliminating poverty, perhaps you haven't been listening, but the problem is that if we continue to grow in population there will be no feasible way to eliminate poverty. Yes we could eliminate poverty now if we distributed resources globally, but for how long? At our current population growth we'll reach ten billion by 2050 and twenty billion around 2075. At twenty billion the entire world will be living at around the poverty levels found in Africa. There is not enough land or water on the earth to provide for everyone humanely... absolutely not enough. This isn't debated (by most) but agreed upon by the majority of scientists. We know what are maximum levels of sustainability are. It's ironic, if one species threatens another species with extinction we have no qualms about culling their numbers to prevent the extinction, but when I say, perhaps we should prevent the world from being overpopulated through limiting the number of children people can have, then I'm an authoritarian who is bent on controlling other's lives. That's not the truth of course, it's just an attempt to throw a label on me to diminish the quality of my argument because you can't think of a solution that's better. So your solution is to train yourself to live in a post apocalyptic world, so that you can survive the chaos, because you believe it's inevitable. I don't think it's inevitable and I am certain that if people understand the consequences of overpopulation that they will begin to see the need for change. Perhaps it will be voluntary, with people voluntarily limiting the size of their families, but perhaps we will need to institute laws in order to prevent the eventual overpopulation. In my opinion everyone deserves to have a child if they desire one, but they do not deserve to have seven or eight if that puts the world at risk. This has nothing to do with authority, but with preventing people from harming others simply because they're selfish (and yes if you know the facts and still want to have a large family then you are selfish). Aaron edit- Also, even though the oil companies are against other forms of energy, there are a large number of people who are researching alternative means of energy. I know we are quite capable of coming up with solutions and I do not doubt for a minute that those solutions will be found and instituted before we reach the point of total oil and natural gas consumption. Something to keep in mind, we have no way of knowing that we've identified all the sources of energy in the world right now, it's quite probable and likely we'll find cheap alternative sources in the future, most likely within the next decade, so much of the doom and gloom stems from pessimism and a lack of faith in humanity. I think it's infinitely better to come up with a solution rather than gather guns, ammo, agricultural skills and run off and hide in the mountains. I do however think it would benefit everyone to learn how to grow their own food, I mean it's really a nice way of knowing that it's free of pesticides and such, so I wont knock that as a suggestion for life skills.

That's a short term solution. It might help for one or two centuries, but what happens when we finally have more people than the additional crops can support? For me the natural and practical solution is to institute some kind of population control that will allow the human race to diminish its numbers humanely and sustain itself for the long term. Keep in mind that scientists have been saying for awhile that in the next few decades it's highly likely that they will be able to slow down aging dramatically, so what then, we have people that can live 200-400 years, but not enough food to feed them? At that point I think you'll essentially have a lottery for who is able to have children and who isn't. I really wouldn't want to live in that kind of society myself, but it's the governments and corporations that actively dictate the flow of society, people haven't been in charge for centuries. Aaron edit- Ironically I will be living in that society, just not as Aaron. At least that's what I believe. Maybe the new me, having grown up with those kinds of restrictions will be less inclined to believe it's screwed up.

I realize I've been posting a lot of wild stuff lately, so I thought it would be nice to post something practical again, something others might be able to learn a bit from or share a bit of their own experiences about. With that in mind one of the aspects of my own life that I've been putting a lot of thought into is the idea of practice vs. philosophy. In my own experience I have found that in the past when I am interested in a philosophy or idea, more often than not, I tend to approach it intellectually, in other words I study the philosophy involved in the idea, rather than the practice of the idea. What I have found repeatedly is that trying to learn about a philosophy solely through intellectual study leaves one with only a partial understanding of the practice. In fact it's easy to point out those who practice a specific philosophy from those who have an intellectual understanding. A good example would be Christians. I can identify a person who actively practices Christianity almost immediately from someone who only has an intellectual understanding of Christianity, the same goes for Buddhism, Hinduism, and almost every other religion or philosophy out there. When I have a question about a philosophy, I tend to look for those people that actually practice the philosophy, simply because they tend to have a deeper insight into the actual philosophy, because they experience it on a personal level. In that light it seems to me that one area of our own lives that we can endeavor to improve in, is turning our intellectual curiosity into an actual practice. Now keep in mind this doesn't mean that one should convert to a religion or become a "true believer" but rather that in order to fully understand the practices we're talking about, oftentimes it requires practicing that philosophy. For instance if one is interested in understanding Christianity, then merely understanding the philosophical aspects of the religion will only get you so far, but applying the practices of the religion to one's life will help one to understand the reasoning behind the philosophy much more clearly, so one might be inclined to begin to pray and practice the lifestyle associated with Christianity in order to come to a clearer understanding of why people choose to be Christians and the inherent benefits or harm the practice my hold. I know this is simple simple stuff, but I think it's one of the things we tend to forget when we're beginning our studies or criticizing other people's beliefs. Also I'm not advocating or encouraging the practice of any specific religion, but rather using them as examples. Now the area of practice that I think is most important is understanding one's own ideas and practice. This is perhaps a bit more perplexing in that it involves a great deal of introspection and thought, in particular investigating one's own beliefs, the root of those beliefs and then putting into practice those beliefs. Simply defining one's beliefs can only provide a certain degree of benefit to one's life, but applying one's beliefs to their daily life can create a dynamic change in the way one understands who they are. Now the benefit of examining one's beliefs is that we can also come to a realization about those beliefs, for instance we may believe that helping others is the right thing to do, but we may not actually practice this in our lives. Investigating this belief will help us to understand the nature of that belief, why it is actually the right thing to do (for us), and whether or not this is something we should start to practice in our lives. If after investigating the nature of this belief, we choose to begin to practice it, then through that practice we can actually expand our understanding of that belief by experiencing it in action. Anyways, this is a very limited examination, and it stems from my own experiences in regards to learning to practice what I believe, rather than have them float around as abstract concepts. I'm interested in hearing other people's experiences in this regard, so if you have any please share. Aaron

I think one could say that the experience of Tai Chi changes if one practices Taoism as well. It's kind of circular logic, not that it's a bad thing. My point was that it really wasn't necessary, even though it might be beneficial to the overall experience. I wanted to practice Tai Chi, but could never find any instructors where I lived in Washington, despite the fact there was a large Asian community (predominately Chinese and Korean) in Olympia at that time. When I moved back to Florida there was a Kung Fu school across the street from me, but they didn't teach Tai Chi at that time. When they finally decided to have an instructor teach at the school, I lost interest in the idea of learning it (mostly because I don't follow Taoism anymore, but rather I practice a more Vendantic/Buddhist approach). I'm almost glad I didn't, because I'm certain if I did, then I would've been less inclined to search other traditions and eventually reach the place I have now. Which leads me to believe that everything happens for a reason. Aaron

I don't think fossil fuels are going to play as big a part as many do in society's decay. I don't even think it's something that will occur quickly or overnight, but rather gradually and it will be a result of overpopulation and lack of basic resources to provide for the population, in particular food. Modest projections that I've read predicted something like 10 billion people by 2046. At that time the majority of the world will be living at around the same level of poverty as mexico right now. A few pockets of western society will still maintain a higher quality of life, but it will be more akin to living along the lines of what is considered poverty level in the states now. The poor in the western world will be living very much as rest of the world, in other words shanty towns and scraping by each day. Infant mortality will most likely be high, perhaps even as high as 25% die before the age of 2. And childhood mortality will be about the same with a high number of children dying from disease before they reach their teens. Now with this knowledge in our minds and 35 years to plan for it, one would think that we would get off our asses and try to make some real changes in the way we're living life. I blame much of this on religious organizations and capitalism. The first fights against any form of birth control or population control and the latter is so bent on making money that they aren't willing to back any changes that might impact the bottom dollar. Of course in 35 years their bottom dollar will be nearly non-existent, because the majority of people will be unable to afford luxuries, so it would seem to me, that it would be in the corporate interest to try and help with coming up with a solution. I think the easiest and most practical solution is to actively slow down population growth. This doesn't mean that we become a police state per se, but rather that we place limits on the number of children a person can have, that number being 1. If a person has more than one child, they would be guilty of a crime (yes it would be a crime to have more than one child). The circumstances of course would have to be taken in to account, but generally there should only be one child per person (not couple). So if a man goes out and gets a woman pregnant, then that's his one child. If he does it again, he would be guilty of a crime. I know it sounds draconian and many people might think it will destroy family values, but think about it, what kind of family values are we going to have in 35 years, when we're sending our kids out to scour the garbage dumps for items we can use or sell, while we do whatever we can to provide for them so that they can eat that day? I'm thinking having one child who can live a happy, safe, and healthy life, is far better than having five who suffer in poverty. That's my 2-cents at least. And yes we need to give up on fossil fuels. I don't have a car anymore and if I do end up buying transportation again, it'll be scooter or smart car, because I don't want to have my hands dirty, knowing I could've done something to help out and didn't. One idea I had to help diminish environmental impact and stimulate growth was to lower the average work week to 30 hours. This would require companies to hire more people and also reduce traffic and help stimulate economic growth through providing new jobs. Aaron

I don't necessarily believe that in order to understand the Tao or Taoism, one must practice Tai Chi or Qigong, rather one mast apply the lessons one learns from Taoism. It doesn't hurt to practice Tai Chi or Qigong, but it isn't a necessity. In my own Taoist practice (when I still believed one could be such a thing) I basically meditated a bit each day and tried to practice what I learned in the Tao Teh Ching and other manuscripts. I remember early on I was quite spontaneous and the girls (and guys) loved it. I was funny, carefree, and really very at ease with the world, then the young man (twenty-ish) became a man (thirty-ish) and started to be more practical. To be honest the twenty-ish fella probably had it right all along, at least in regards to how one practices Taoism. Aaron

This Bill Gates conspiracy crap is funny, at least to me. There is no evidence to actually support any of it and in fact if he was actually sterilizing the majority of people in overpopulated areas, I'd give him a gold star for helping to do something about overpopulation. I mean lets face it, if something isn't done the world will be a miserable place for everyone to live in less than twenty years... unless you're very wealthy and can afford your own private compound. I'm not talking societal collapse by the way, that's not going to be the real apocalypse, the real apocalypse will creep up on us, slowly, so slowly that in forty years people will have forgotten the quality of life we have now. People will die of disease, starvation, and violent crimes in droves, all the while there will be more to replace them, increasing the population til we disintegrate and finally implode around eighty years down the line with a massive near extinction (if not actual extinction). Anyways these are conservative estimates, it might take a couple decades longer or less, but most agree it wont be much better than I describe and it could get very much worse much sooner. So next time you come up with some conspiracy regarding Gates sterilizing millions of people around the world, keep in mind that could probably be one of the most humane things someone could do for the human race. Aaron

I have a question related to this topic, so rather than start a new topic, I will just ask it here. How many people actually believe in the existence of deities as they have been defined by the Buddhist canon? I understand that most (many?) of the Buddhist in Asia have no problem understanding and believing this concept, but I think for most Westerners it's hard to understand the notion of deities, rather than a deity, hence the belief many Westerner's have that Buddhists worship Buddha. Anyways, for those that have no problem with this concept, do you have any experiences where you have interacted with, or been able to sense the existence of these deities? I value experience more than philosophy in most cases. Aaron

T C (the meditator formerly known as Tao Cow) or someone made a comment somewhere I can't remember that got me intrigued in Lucid Dreaming. I practiced awhile back when I was in college, and it was trippy, but never in any depth, such as dream yoga or whatever it's called. If anyone has some good info regarding Lucid Dreaming, could you shoot it this way. I'd like to hear some other people's experiences regarding lucid dreaming as well, my only experience is being aware that I'm dreaming, I've never actually been able to change the outcome of a dream, but the idea that it's possible is interesting, so is the idea that one can learn more about themselves by delving and molding their subconscious mind. Aaron

Who said anything about moral categorization? I was talking about behavior. I don't judge people as good or bad, believe it or not, but rather by their actions. I am strong advocate that one should behave in a socially acceptable way (if one wants to live within society) but they should not blindly follow moral ideology (be it Christian, Islam, Buddhist, Hindu, or whatever religion). In my own life I examine the effects my actions have on others and go from there. I also examine the effects someone else's actions have on others, and that of course requires judgement. Aaron

I love this song... has some great lyrics. If you don't listen to The Killers, you really need to take a look. Aaron

I'm with you here Kate. I'm not certain what the spirit is. Perhaps its the part of us that is part of the dharma cycle, perhaps it's an actual third part of us that exists (which I thought was true until I had some recent experiences). Now I only see myself as me. Me is not just what I think but my physical body as well, they aren't separate. Since I've begun to understand this on a deeper level, my thoughts about spirit have been diminished greatly. If my ego self is gone with this body, I am still a part of this world and I have no doubt that I am living through my own existence and yours as well, even if I'm not consciously aware of yours. I know it's trippy, but it's essentially why I don't fear death or dying, because I know as long as you or anyone else exists on this earth or universe, then I will continue to experience this world. Maybe that's why Buddha was so dead set on trying to release everyone from suffering, because on some level he understood until everyone passes on, we will all be right back here, maybe not as "us", but as "we/me". Aaron Edit- *shudder*... I didn't mean to bring up Buddha on a Taoist discussion board, but I got the sense this was more than simply a Taoist discussion. Please forgive my transgression.

Hello Leon, I think it depends on what you want to do with the degree. If you're getting a psych degree to counsel others, then a degree in industrial or organizational psychology might not be the best bet. If you're leery of getting a degree in social work (the pay is abysmal) then you might consider getting a MS in psychology and going on for your Phd. I made the mistake of stopping at a BA in Psychology and it didn't really help much. I ended up working as a case manager and burnt out fast. Kudos to you for thinking ahead though. I would talk to your psych professors about this, they'd probably be able to give you some help in making this decision. Just steer clear of alternative psych degrees if you can. Aaron

I'm trying to change my avatar, but it wont let me remove my old avatar and add a new one. Anyone know why this is? I've tried it numerous times with different images and so far nothing, any input would be greatly appreciated. Aaron

Doh! I just needed to clear my cache. Aaron

Hello ATMA, I understand that you are making a judgement regarding my behavior and attributing it to my ego, and that's fine, I have an ego and perhaps it is inflated, but what I might recommend is that you consider that my reaction was appropriate given the amount of time that Tulku has been behaving the way he has. He has been here a few months now and his behavior has been negative, abusive, and destructive, if not emotionally, then certainly spiritually. He has been trolling for reactions, making absurd and offensive statements for far longer than my patience warrants. Everything I said was truthful. He is in need of help, I think the majority of the people here see that. If I thought addressing him with compassion would've done any good, I would've but compassion comes in many forms. A priest was in charge of an orphanage many years ago, one of the boys at the orphanage was angry and disruptive. Over and over he would lash out at the other children, biting them, hitting them, even spitting on them. The priest, a man with great patience, took the boy aside each time and talked to him and tried to be kind, knowing the boy was angry at being abandoned by his parents, but the boy was far too angry to listen, and kept acting out. One day the priest called to him to come in for dinner and he ran away from him towards the street, the priest chased after him and caught him just before he ran into the street. At that moment a car whizzed by, narrowly missing both of them. The priest dragged the boy inside and spanked him til the boy began to cry. Then the priest dragged the boy into the room where the other children were eating and made him apologize to everyone in the room, then after the boy apologized to the children, he told the boy he needed to apologize to him as well. The boy was shocked and asked what he needed to apologize to the priest for? The priest answered, "I hurt my hand spanking you." The boy apologized and began crying, the priest took him out of the room and the boy talked to him for the first time. This isn't a made up story, I heard it in college, it was a personal essay written by another student in my class. Years later this student still returned to the orphanage to help the priest and the nuns. He said that it was that moment when this man, who had been so kind to him, had finally broken down and spanked him, that he realized all the pain he was causing others. Compassion is not just talking nice, sometimes it involves shaking someone's conscience til they understand something is wrong. I don't think Tulku has gotten the message yet, but essentially he is hurting and because he is hurting he is causing others pain. I have tried the nice approach, but it didn't work, so in the end I did what I do to all bullies, I push back, defend myself and others. Now this might seem strange for someone who advocates passive resistance, but there are two types of resistance, resistance against the abuses of society and individual resistance, against those individuals within a society who are causing harm to others. In the first case it is far more beneficial to resist passively, to try and avoid the many and commune with others peacefully whenever possible, but in the second case, when someone comes into that community believing they are more important than others and attempt to bully the rest into submission, then you have to put your foot down and show them the door and let them find a community where their behavior is acceptable. Unfortunately I don't think there is any place like that for Tulku, and despite what you might think, I feel very sorry for him and I wish that he could find some peace for his troubled mind, but at the same time I don't think it's beneficial to allow the one to harm the many simply because he has not learned to behave appropriately. If anyone thinks anything I said was dishonest or untruthful, then I will be the first to apologize, but I think that most of the people here understood Tulku's motives as I have. My advice is that in the future, rather than jumping to conclusions, allow yourself some time to understand what is going on. Sometimes the man being chased down isn't the victim, but the culprit. Aaron edit- Also, I don't think anyone deserves to suffer, regardless of what they do, but sadly, sometimes it is only through suffering that change can occur.