Aaron

Usually when it happens, I am above my body looking down or slightly off to the side. I am aware of what's happening around me, but it all seems quite distant, almost neutral. I've experienced this phenomena all my life and it was not the result of practice that helped it to evolve. I have been able to duplicate it in others using hypnosis at parties, the only difference being they appear to be more lucid during the event, in other words they don't feel the distance phenomena. Other than through hypnosis, it doesn't seem to be something others, or I, can just do on command. Aaron

edit- I decided to not participate in this study. I don't care for the Chuang Tzu and after reading the following chapter found it to be less enticing than I did when I was a kid in college and more open to this type of nonsense. Aaron

Edited- I decided not to participate in this study. The Chuang Tzu isn't my cup of tea, nor is dictating what descriptions are appropriate to describe the chapters.

What do you mean exactly by out of body experience? I have had numerous occasions where I've been out of my body looking at myself, but normally it occurs when I'm stressed or bored. During meditation I have suddenly appeared elsewhere, but it was never done purposefully and I wasn't even sure of the location I appeared. I think others will be able to give you some good sources in regards to how to achieve this, but I think it would take a great deal of practice to be able to do it on demand and I've never actually had that desire, hence the reason it happens when it happens. Aaron

I agree, it isn't all the same. I think people like to say that to get people to be open to what they're saying. I see Buddhism and Taoism as being night and day apart. Buddhism is about coming to enlightenment by ending suffering through detachment from the world (I know this is a very simplified definition) and in Taoism enlightenment is achieved through one's attachment to the world. Night and day, despite how one might describe it. I can't even think of a term in Buddhism for what Tao encompasses, though many might try and make comparisons. Of course in the end it's probably best to put Buddhism and Taoism on the shelf and try to come to these realizations through an honest and thorough examination of one's self and the world, through meditation and introspection. Even if you fail to become enlightened, you'll at least have a fuller understanding of the person staring at you in the mirror. Aaron

I've actually done a lot of different types of therapy in my past to deal with abuse and the one that worked the best was the Twelve Steps (even if I don't attend meetings anymore). Essentially the twelve steps encourages one who is suffering to look within and find the root causes of their suffering. For me it had to do with fear. I know that my initial post and recent posts may lead some to believe I suffer from a great deal of depression and anxiety over my past experiences, but that is the furthest thing from the truth. Yes I have a weird mind and I'm not normal in any sense, but I also have a great deal of contentment in my life that stems from the knowledge that shit happens to everyone and it's not so much what happens that's important, but what you do with it. Now one can't do a fearless moral inventory of themselves and just stop and expect change to happen, part of it is realizing one's effect on others as well. The twelve steps encourages one to actively right the wrongs of their past and also right the wrongs they make in the present, so they do not repeat the same behaviors that led them to suffer in the first place. This includes understanding the limits of one's control over their environment, that the world does not revolve around them, and that the only one responsible for the way you are, in the end, is you. Of course one of the chief offenders for the cause of suffering is resentment, so one is also encouraged to examine their resentments and let them go. This takes active work, not just prayer, but understanding the cause of the resentment and taking steps to be rid of it, including changing one's attitude about the person, thing, or situation that is causing the resentment. (An example is that the person who abused me as a child is very successful today, earning in excess of five figures each year, much more than I make. I could easily say this isn't fair, but then I would have to ask myself why? A person's wealth isn't determined by their moral compass, but by their ability to earn money. If I believe that one deserves good things because they have suffered, then I am fooling myself. In the end what happens in a person's life is dictated by what they choose to do with their life. If I want money, then I need only apply myself and I can earn it.) Ironically (maybe it's not ironic but rather coincidental) these practices are also found in those who actively seek enlightenment in their life, they're just brought about less intensely. In my own experience with meditation, I have found that meditation alone does not bring one closer to awareness, but it also requires deep reflection upon the nature of who one is and understanding that their is something greater than themselves that exists that they can rely on. For me that greater power is compassion, for others it may be God, Shiva, the notion of good, or a multitude of other things. The bottom line is that the more one is trapped in the past, the less they can do to make their present a positive place to be. I've said this all before, so it's nothing new, but I thought it deserved a repeat, not just for my benefit, but for anyone who is struggling with the past. Aaron edit- One thing I failed to mention about my inner home, is that it's not a dank, dreary place to be anymore. My own change in attitude has also been reflected in the people within this home. My main concern is that I thought when I came to terms with my past that this would allow the other people within me to finally be free, because I thought that perhaps they were trapped by my own suffering, but what I realize is that from great suffering they were born, but it is through understanding the nature of living that they exist now. Maybe they are more fortunate than me, because they are still innocent and childlike. Perhaps my lesson here is not being rid of them, but trying to understand how they retained that nature, so I can achieve the measure of peace and simplicity they seem to have.

I didn't know the answer to this so I did some quick internet research and, although there was nothing about it's effect on chi or energy, they have also not found a link between it and arthritis. The link they did find was that people who habitually cracked their knuckles tended to have swollen hands more often and their hands weren't as strong as people who didn't. Now you know and knowing is half the battle. Aaron

Well to be completely honest I've never had a problem taking care of myself or working until this last year when the economy turned to crap. I found a job last week, so I'm hoping my recent financial woes will be history. As far as being poor or rich, I've never seen success as a measure of how much one makes, but rather of one's quality of life. Why make a million dollars if you're miserable, when you can make $10 an hour and be happy? I have no doubts if I buckled down and wrote a book my financial woes would be nonexistent, but I just don't have the desire to really write about anything. My goal in life is to live a good life, not necessarily one where I'll be financially well off. Aaron

Hello Old Green, I thank you for your advice, but I quit praying about a year ago. I prayed every morning and night for I don't know how long, praying essentially what you said, except mine was "May I do what is right and not what I want. May I find forgiveness as I forgive others. May I not work by my will, but be a tool of the universe." Anyways, it was reassuring, but after awhile I realized I wasn't exactly sure who I was praying to and if I couldn't be sure of that, what was the purpose? Anyways, thanks again and I am glad that it's working for you. Aaron

Hello Manitou, I'm sorry to hear that you have suffered from abuse, it's never an easy thing to admit or come to terms with. I'm patient, but at times perplexed. I'll work through this and it's not really causing me pain or suffering, just a bit of confusion. My own blackouts have been investigated and found to be psychogenic in nature, in other words they have no physical basis, so medication and such wont really help with it. I don't suffer them all that much and during those blackouts I don't behave irrationally or strange, in fact I seem to do normal things, like watch television and such. As I said they haven't been a real problem for years and the recurrence awhile back caused me a bit of shock, but I have come to terms with it. In regards to what others have mentioned, I have thought about integration, but I'm not so sure that's the way to go. I would feel tremendously guilty if I integrated other souls, purely for the sake of my own. As I said, I am giving it some thought, but for now I have no intention, nor would I make such a decision without the consent of the others that are living in that world in my head. If they didn't agree to it, I wouldn't do it, plain and simple. I think convention dictates that I somehow possess them, that they are me, and perhaps they are "me", since aren't we all a part of the greater "me", but in the same way they have developed their own self-identities, for whatever reason and deserve to make the decision regarding their fate. In retrospect I regret starting this thread, if only because most people don't seem to understand that this isn't really traumatic for me, just confusing. I'm lucid and very aware of the world, my mind is just slightly different from a normal mind, or maybe I'm just acutely aware of what others aren't? Who knows. In the end we need to do what's best for us, but in doing so we can't allow our own interests to blind us to the needs of others, whether that is a flesh and blood child or a child who only lives in a world inside someone's mind. Aaron edit- Vortex, what you said actually made a lot of sense in a Jungian archetype sense, except for the gay thing. I'm not exclusively gay, I have been attracted to women in the past and find myself still attracted to some, I just happen to find myself attracted to certain men as well, ironically it's the not the rough and tumble men, but sensitive, caring, and artistic men (while with women I tend to find myself attracted to take charge kind of girls, who aren't afraid of speaking their mind.) Hah... now I've shared a bit too much, so I'm going to shut up now.

Hello Manitou, That's the screwy thing, my memories don't take me back, in fact I came to terms with most of that stuff in the first two years of my recovery, and the rest two years ago, so this new recurrence of "stress blackouts" is kind of strange. I'm not too worried about them because I don't leave my house when they happen, so I'm certain I'm not robbing a convenience store or managing an international crime syndicate, rather I'm probably just watching cartoons, reading a book, or something like that. My brother (who's my roommate) has never commented about it, except to say I talk too much sometimes. I guess my question isn't how to get rid of them, I know to someone else who doesn't experience the "We phenomena" it might be hard to understand, but they are very real. I think they have their own souls and spirits and they certainly have their own thoughts, likes and dislikes, and feelings. For all intents and purposes they're children too, so for me integration is like saying, you've served your purpose, now it's time to be rid of you. Anyways that's not meant to be negative, just my opinion. Things will most likely die down again. I haven't had a blackout in a couple of weeks and I actually don't have them that often. I went for years without having a blackout, so in that regard I'm just going to let things take their own course. Aaron

First this reminds me of a vampire, I'd never do that to them. I know you might see them as being fragments or not real beings, but I'm telling you, in the world they live in they are real, they're just stuck at one age and time. I already know why they're there, and knowing that, I still don't have the right to take them "out" because they inconvenience me. To be honest I haven't had a problem with them for quite awhile, I think it's the stress of homelessness and unemployment that's causing these things to occur again. Aaron

Actually I've been giving this a lot of thought. I'm not perfect by the way, I'm the first to admit that. I'm the least normal person I know, but I try very hard to do what I believe is right. Does that mean it's right, not necessarily, only that I think it's what's right. So maybe fighting is alright and it's not always the lesser of two evils, but maybe it is too. I think in the end each of us has to choose that for themselves. Aaron

Well there's a time when you just can't go any deeper than you have and I think we've reached that point. It seems pointless to continue when I don't think anything we say will really change our point of view. So I will wave the white flag here and move on to the next big thing. Aaron

Actually I just started watching it too, but I'm enjoying it. They mention Taoist and Buddhist sorcery a lot in the series, so it's the first thing to come to mind when the OP mentioned Taoist and Buddhist magic. Aaron

Sloppy, Lets agree that we'll probably never agree. Fighting is always bad, but sometimes it's the lesser of two evils. There is no way we'll ever agree on this topic, so I think it would be best to just shake hands and walk our separate ways, because we're expending way too much energy right now. Aaron

I can answer this question for you, watch Tokyo Majin, it will explain all of this in great detail. You can find it on Netflix. Aaron

I'm just trying to see if I read this right, are you essentially saying, it's your way or the highway? Are you just going to keep leaving and coming back until everyone suits your own method of behaving? That seem very immature to me. The fact of the matter is you can't change people, you can only change yourself. If you're finding that the only reason you come here is to bicker, then the problem is yours, not everyone else's. You are being very dismissive and your later retraction doesn't diminish that. If this is the reason you're leaving, Then let me remind you that where ever you go, there you are. If the problem really is you, and you are the one that needs to decide this, then you can run away, ban yourself for six months, and essentially shrink away into the abyss and nothing will change, because you're still there. And please don't use addiction as an excuse, it's silly. Yes there is a bit of mental masturbation that goes on here, but perhaps you need to discern when you need to interact with others and when you don't. I think what you're doing here isn't resolve, it's just running away from your problems, rather than facing them and making sincere change. I have my issues with you, but in the end I do wish you the best, so if you decide to leave fine, but if I'm one of the reason you're leaving, then just tell me you don't want me to talk to you and I will do that. Take away the enlightenment and heartmind stuff and essentially my goal is still the same now as it was when I first started recovery, to try to do the right thing, so if this is the right thing for you, then I will abide by it. In other words don't leave on my account, or anyone else's, but rather because you sincerely feel this is in your best interest. Aaron

I'm glad it brought a chuckle to you. I'm sure it does sound funny. I guess my question is this, which is more valuable your tv, dog, plant, and house or a human life. If someone came up to you and said, I'm going to take your house and the only thing you can do to stop me is kill me, would you kill him or give up the house? That's really the question I'm posing. What is more valuable? Even if you own that house, is it really worth more than a human life? My argument is that somewhere along the lines we stopped seeing what was actually valuable and started seeing other people as objects, rather than people. We like to think of these things we have as being special, but let me tell you they're not. I could give everything up today if I had to, simply because I know that in the end no one can take away peace and contentment from me, unless I choose to let them. With that said, I despise bullies. They make my blood boil, especially the sneaky manipulative ones. It turns my stomach, but at the same time, if push comes to shove, I'll walk away in the end, rather than allow things to escalate to a physical confrontation. So you can speak your mind, express yourself and try to evoke change, but actual fighting should be the last thing on your mind. I know this was a subtle jab at my philosophy, that your intent was to make it sound silly, but in the end what you're describing is a man at peace with the world. A man who realizes that the only things he needs to be happy are his family and himself. If you do end up needing to leave, I recommend letting the birds out of the cages and remembering that the cat and dog can take care of themselves if it comes down to it. Aaron

Hello Sloppy, Let me break it down simply. My philosophy is this, if you struggle, then someone else struggles. If you fight, then someone else fights. Do everything in your power to avoid harming others. If you can run, then run. If you need to give up what you own in order to avoid harming others or yourself, then do so. If you ultimately cannot get away, then do not just simply stand there and allow yourself to be killed, raped, maimed, etc. defend yourself as you need to, remembering to be as compassionate in that defense as possible. Yes sometimes compassion isn't about running away, sometimes you see a killer and you know that unless you stop him, they will keep on killing, so if the most compassionate action is to kill them so they cannot cause further suffering, then do so. But under no circumstance should you teach your child that fighting is alright, you teach them that if one must fight, then it should be the absolute last resort. Does that make it clearer? I advocate teaching pacifism, but not masochism. I'm advocating peace by bringing up the root cause of fighting, which is fighting itself. If one does not fight, then they cannot lose a battle. So in every instance the primary goal should be to avoid fighting, unless there is absolutely no way around it. I cannot believe the extent I've been attacked on this thread because I advocate peace. Peace should be on all of our hearts. If we devoted half as much time to cultivating peace in our lives and others, as we do cultivating Power, then the world would be a much more peaceful place. Aaron

Blasto, keep in mind that I posted that I was sexually abused as a child and you know this full well and you've actually commented on it before. What was your motivation when you resorted to making comments such as this following quote regarding me? Perhaps you should examine whether or not you are angry and ill-equipped as well. Just because, in the end I disagree with you, doesn't mean that's the reason you piss me off so much. To be honest, completely honest, you remind me a lot of a person who's caused me a lot of pain in the past, and I guess I have been pushing my feelings about him onto you. I'll try and stop doing that. In the meantime I hope you can refrain from making comments like this without understanding how hurtful they actually are. Aaron

Blasto really? You of all people are claiming I warp ideas and attack others? I think the only reason you haven't been banned from this forum for insults and personal attacks is because you're so buddy buddy with the mods. In my estimation you should've been long gone a year ago. You are the only member of this entire forum I have ever put on ignore. I've never put Vmarco, Vaj, Jack, or anyone else on ignore, no matter how much we argue, but you are a completely different story. I've sensed something from your comments that made it clear to me the first time we spoke that you weren't a healthy person for me to deal with. I stepped out this once because you're making generalized comments about something you know nothing about, that I take personally. I would wager you knew I would and that's the reason you made the comment. As I said you're a master manipulator, hence the reason you chose to talk about something no one has mentioned in this thread to date. I'm returning to ignoring you, as I've mentioned numerous times, you are not worth the trouble of talking to. Aaron

Tulku, I'm beginning to think you didn't get enough attention as a child (in fact I have a stinking suspicion you still are a child), with that in mind, I'm not really aware of your own home life, so I can't speak for your family or lover (which you don't have and at the current rate may never have), but I can speak for the majority of people who tend to want what's best for their families. I think you're taking your own experiences and pasting them over everyone else, making what's happened to you be the norm, when I will be the first to tell you, that is in no way true. Anyways, cheer up dude, isn't it close to thanksgiving? You'll be out of school for the holidays in a couple weeks. Just look forward to that and bide your time. It can't rain all the time. Aaron

Normally I don't reply to your comments Blasto, but in this case, since you brought up the "gay" thing, I felt I needed to explain why the gay movement is destined to heartbreak. First I can't name one person that's died for Gay rights in the last 20 years, at least not one I can remember. Have people been killed by bigots? Yeah. Have they committed suicide because of bullying? Yeah. Have they marched against a horde of riot police and been gunned down for their display of rebellion? Not so much. In fact the Gay movement has been relatively peaceful, trying to make people aware of issues. If you listen to all the major leaders of the gay movement, they all say the same thing, we need to educate and encourage tolerance of others (not just gays). It is only by educating others that we'll ever really see change in this country. Now as far as the gay marriage thing goes, I think you'll see it repealed in the next few years at the supreme court level. The problem is that we are a minute minority, the smallest, and least protected, so it's easy to target us for these kinds of things. Now do I want that to happen? Of course not, but I can see that we took advantage of a certain climate and that now that climate is changing. My only hope is that it doesn't cause more harm to us in the future. In regards to gay youth, whom I worry a considerable amount about, I encourage them to stay in the closet until they're eighteen and able to take care of themselves on their own. The rights of the parent outweigh the rights of the gay child after all, so if they do come out there's no telling what might happen to them. All in all gays, especially those in red states, have very few rights. We are an unprotected minority. In Florida for instance, I can be fired because I'm gay (but not because of my race or religion). I can't marry. I can be excluded from certain groups, up until recently I couldn't adopt (note: from those I know who're are going through the process, it's not gay friendly in the least) and the list goes on. Maybe it's become more tolerant, but time will tell for how long. With the rise of islam and christian fundamentalism, I think we're placing a target on our backs and it's just a matter of time before someone chooses to aim at that target. It would've been better to just appreciate what we had and let things change as they should've (in my opinion.) Anyways I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. Aaron edit- You are a superb manipulator by the way. You know just how to draw people into conversations. That'll come in handy as a new parent. As far as idealism, Sloppy's way is much more ideal and simple. Someone pisses you off, go smack them, my way is far less than ideal, which is why not many people approve and you also hear so many people come out and argue against it. The fact is those people that tend to argue against it, understand on some level that I'm right, but they've been taught that change is impossible without force, so they can't seem to wrap their heads around the idea of peaceful change.

Hello Shen, But I can testify to the fact that not everyone who abstains suffers from nocturnal emissions. I was celibate for nearly two years, with only four "slips" when I was in a cult, I never once had a nocturnal emission. When I say I've never had one, I really have never had one. I thought they were an old wive's tale until a friend of mine explained that they were quite common. Now one thing I've learned is that they are much more common in the East (Asia actually) then they are in the West, not sure why. Anyways, the fact of the matter for me is that man is meant to release his "lust" for lack of a better word, I like to think of it as sexual energy. When you have energy building up and it doesn't have anyplace to go, then it's eventually going to explode. Crazy occurrence from my time in the cult, I was in the bathtub taking a bath, I was just a couple months past eighteen, when my roommate who they also assigned to be my descipler, which by the way was their term for someone who was more Christlike than you, that would instruct you in becoming more Christlike, well anyways, my descipler came in and pulled the curtain back and sat down on the edge of the tub and confessed that he had masturbated. It was the most awkward experience I've ever had in my life. Here was this bald guy in his late thirties crying about masturbating, while I was taking a bath. That was actually one of the turning points that sent me packing... that and the guy always wanted to wrestle with me. (I wont even begin to talk about the descipler who would kiss me on the lips, saying that it was alright because it was chaste and a godly kiss.) Anyways, I can honestly say that my own experience influences my judgement of these kinds of things, but rather than leave me blind, I think it has allowed me to see through these things and understand the nature of them. Aaron