Aaron

Shen read my post before this one, because that is one of the important things I think need to be addressed in this conversation... although perhaps it's time we make a new thread, since we've been taking this one off on a tangent. If you choose to, let me know and I'll carry on the discussion there. Aaron

I must be a tantric master then, because I've never had a wet dream in my life, even when I was chaste for a few years. (I happened to be in a cult that told me all the things you're telling everyone here, which is one of the reasons I'm telling people that it's bullshit. I also learned that the easiest way to ensure devotion is to reinforce guilt, that's the reason for all of this.) Transmutation... call it what you want, but it's just a method that's supposed to diminish lust, which doesn't work. Do you think only a few monks are practicing these things? From my understanding it's like prison in those places, the higher monks choose the younger monks and the younger monks can't say no and they have no place to turn to for help, because if they go to the head monks or higher ups, they'll be admonished or accused of lying. This happens in Christian monasteries too. The fact that the same sordid tale pops up wherever large groups of men get together and live secluded lives tells me that it's a pretty normal occurrence, that sex isn't just about procreation, but perhaps about recreation as well, and that when you remove the chance for voluntary sexual intercourse, then the strong will force themselves on the weaker to achieve it. Come now, when you hear the same story over and over, throughout different institutions, religions, denominations, cultures, and geographic locations, don't you think you should admit to the pattern and try to find a way to fix it? (Keep in mind that in prison you aren't allowed to masturbate, it's considered self abuse and you can be criminally charged for it... do you see the pattern? Am I the only one that can see this?) Aaron

What is the point of having sex without an orgasm, unless you're prolonging the orgasm? Chaste sex... I can't even count the ways that's wrong. Orgasm is the natural way, celibacy is the screwed up "lets make sure we can dictate what you do with all your basic desires" way of programming young men into robotic followers of the supreme high order. No one has the right to dictate what someone does with their body, when they do it, or how they do it, plain and simple... I don't care what your defense is. Quit proscribing guilt under the mask of enlightenment. And for clarification, one can understand the nature of the universe without being omniscient, apparently when you were learning pranayama you missed that. Think of it as knowing the nature of sex, but not all the positions and variations. Aaron

My point is that you say all of this and then say that someone who is a "homosexual, masturbator, alcoholic, etc." shouldn't be allowed to practice in a spiritual organization. I'm also saying that pranayama is bullshit, it doesn't work. Ask the boys that are molested every day in monasteries how pranayama is working for them. Ask the monks having sex with other monks, how it's working for them. It's not because they're practicing pranayama wrong, it's that it DOESN'T work, simply because it's trying to remove something that is very much a part of our basic physical nature (the desire for sex.) Also, ask the numerous Lamas, laymen, teachers, masters and gurus how pranayama is working for them. When you find all of these systematic failures that pop up over and over, how can you still say "it's because you westerners don't understand the deep mystic symbolism of it all." It just astounds me that you can't see through all of this. If I could just give you a glimmer of what I know and have experienced, then perhaps that would let you see how absurd the things you say are, but I can't, so the most I can hope for is that you wake up one day with a woody, polish it off and say, "so this is what it's all about, screw pranayama." Aaron

First Shen, I am not attacking you per se, but rather addressing your comments in a manner I think they need to be addressed, because in my mind the thing's you're saying are harmful to others and people need to understand that. Second, I know without a doubt that I have reached an awareness of, not only my true self, but the nature of the universe, and I did this all while I was sexually active (and also I was masturbating). The way you describe it, none of this should've been possible, but it was. I know that one can never understand who they truly are without also understanding the nature of their sexuality. I know that one can never understand the nature of the universe without also understanding the nature of sex. Sex is not just about procreation, it's a blossoming of the spirit that allows us to share a bit of ourselves with others. It is also something meant to be enjoyed and there is no need to restrain ourselves for the sake of God or enlightenment, rather, like all things it should be enjoyed, but never to an excess that causes harm (notice I didn't say moderation, because that's not true either). I would love it if I woke up one day and every religion in the world was suddenly forgotten. Can you imagine how much peace and serenity there would be? Aaron

Actually masturbation is considered immoral by most religions, and it makes sense. Most young men who learn to masturbate will practice masturbation on a daily basis, because it is a very pleasurable thing, so it makes sense if you want to warp their minds and create little ideas of guilt within so you can mold them into the little beings you want them to be, that you would tell them such things as "you are committing a sin" or "you are wasting sacred energy" or "this will prevent you from gaining enlightenment" and when these same young men turn into men who have rampant homosexual encounters and molest the young boys in their care, then we will just say they didn't meditate well enough or weren't practicing the proscribed paths with devotion, it was after all that they were weak, not that the monastic system is bent and defective. Again, show me one religion where they have achieved the ability to tame the sexual nature of man and I will show you a convert, til then I understand these things for what they are. I think most people today do. Control the sexual nature of the young (and old) and you control that man or woman. Tell them that these thoughts are evil, wrong, or wasteful, and you instill guilt in their heart, which we all know is the greatest form of control we can exert. Now if you look at a young man who comes from a non-religious family that learns about masturbation naturally and in a non-judgmental home, what they get from masturbation is a lot of pleasure and a release of stress. They enjoy it, it makes them smile, and puts a spring in their step, that is until some nut job comes along and convinces them that they're harming others by thinking about them in a sexual way or harming themselves because they are "loosing their sacred jing" or worst of all, making angels cry. It's screwed up crap like that makes the pacifist in me boil. If you want to dement yourself, feel free to do so, but for the sake of all that's good, don't do it to others, especially not the young who don't even know what it's all about yet or at least give them time to learn about it on their own and make their own decision. You have every right to screw up your own mind, but don't take something that's innocent and fun and turn it into something dirty and wrong. And don't tell people how harmful all of this is and then direct them to a webpage about embracing their sexual nature... can we say "hypocrite?" Or is that just a bit more backpedaling and justifying. I guess if it helps you to sleep at night knowing you're making someone feel guilty because they have a natural desire to do something that makes them feel good, well then, whatever works for you. Aaron

Hello Sloppy, You like martial arts and want to justify learning them as a means of fighting. You seem like the kind of person that wants to fight just to prove you're the best at it, even in your verbal confrontations, so you're the last person in the world I expect to understand what I'm talking about (and obviously you still don't get it.) See I wasn't using the people in prison as an example of what it takes to find contentment, rather I was using them as an example of how someone can have everything taken away from them and find contentment. There are others, including monks around the world, hermits, etc. that live minimal lifestyles and find the same contentment. You see you are bound and chained to your materialistic lifestyle and I understand the notion of being without that is terrifying because you identify yourself with it, but there are some that can step back and see all that crap that you think tastes like heaven, for what it is. Real heaven isn't sitting in your house having a cappuccino watching Friends on TBS after you get home from the fierce workout at the studio, but rather it comes from understanding that all that stuff is actually poison, that it does not bring you contentment at all, that if you were truly aware of what this world is and what matters, then all you would need is a cup of rice and some water and you would be happy, anything else is sheer gravy. So you can defend your need for power, but the sage, of old and new, understand that everything they need is where they are at, that as long as they have a bit food and shelter, then they have no worries. You can worry about your rent/mortgage/bills and claim you're free, but the fact is you're probably going to work today for a company you don't own, spending that money on things you don't really need, then shouting about how you need to defend these things you don't need, and telling your children how they need to go to school and get an education so they can afford these things they don't need. Well the fact of the matter is that if you love your children and you still are doing this, what's wrong with you? Now to get back to the matter of hand in this forum, those who seek power do so, in nearly every case, not to protect their loved ones, but to gain power over others, because they fear others being able to harm them. Before seeking power, you should address why you feel the need to gain power. If you address this and find that isn't the case then consider this, if you live a peaceful life, the chances that someone will decide to harm you is very slim. Might it happen? Maybe, but the chances, even today in our modern Western screwed up life, are so slim that they don't warrant the necessity to learn martial arts. If someone picks a fight with you, the wisest course of action is to back down, don't let your ego get in the way and force you to "man up", if the other person still is bent on fighting, then run. Now if you still want power, or if you're really bent on protecting yourself and others, then learn to communicate with others, the most powerful weapon you have is your voice. Most of all, if you're very worried and you don't agree with what I've said to the least, don't learn martial arts, but rather, do as Witch recommended and buy a gun. I guarantee you put any of the masters up against a guy who knows how to handle a gun and ninety-nine times out of one-hundred the guy with the gun is going to win. Aaron

I'm just putting this out there, but perhaps the reason they never came back is because, one, they probably never existed, except as fantasies, and two, if they did, THEY DIED! There's no coming back from that, at least not as the same person. Lighten up and live a little. I'm going to suggest to you again, you really need to experience life a little. Life is meant to be experienced, and I don't mean a completely miserable experience. Aaron

No offense but this just shocked me for it's blatant ignorance and apparent lack of attention to what I said. I said that if someone attacks you you have a right to defend yourself... do I need to point this out to you. Can't you make a logical deduction? If someone is going to attack you and you know it, avoid them to the best of your ability, but if you can't, you're not required to sit still and die, only do everything you can up until that point to avoid the violence. Yes this means run away and give up your homes if that's what's required. I think your reply showed extreme measures of ignorance in regards to what pacifism means and what compassion entails. If you want to make more absurd examples, then please don't expect me to reply to them. The problem is that you're going along the lines of right and wrong as you've been taught them. You believe you are entitled to freedoms, but you don't understand that many of those "freedoms" are the very reason why you're not free. In a peaceful society there are no laws to moderate others, rather people live along the lines that, so long as they don't harm others, they are free to do what they want. Do you think I'm advocating letting rapists run the street and do as they want? Do you think I'm advocating letting murderers murder indiscriminately? What I am saying is that you take the least violent means to solve an issue and under no circumstance should your answer be "lets kill them before they kill us!" The answer should be, "well if they want it so bad, let them have it." Leave, pack up, go someplace else and live your life as you choose. Now this lifestyle worked for mankind for over 200,000 years before we finally began to settle down and live a "civilized" life. Our problems stem from this idea that we possess this world, its resources, and its people, but we don't possess anything, so we don't have a right to deny anyone anything within it or claim it as our own. This isn't socialism either, it's simply that the notion of property in any form only causes wants. So if someone wants the land you live on, if you want peace within your life, give it to them and find someplace else. This is the rule for dealing with others, I'm assuming that those within a community will be wise enough to see those who choose not to abide by these rules and deal with them as compassionately as possible. Aaron edit- But in saying this, lets say that you cannot find peace, that war follows you and does not give up, do you give up compassion, teach your children how to kill efficiently and quickly? No! You say, "I will not let my children become like these men!" That's why I say it's better for your child to die young knowing happiness and kindness than live a lifetime caught in the cycle of death. Now to clarify, most of us are not in a situation where we need to make this decision, but if it came down to choosing whether or not to send a child off to war, or running and hiding, I'd choose to run and hide them. I'd choose to teach them what's right and good, and not water down those principles because I wanted to be sure I could wake up and buy ice cream at the supermarket or still have internet access tomorrow morning. I would rather have my child die young and happy, without a blemish on their soul, then be taught that there is any such thing as a good war or a right to take another persons life simply because you want something they have, even if what you want is what they want.

Hello Deci Belle, I really don't care who wrote the Art of War, it still has no more value than feces in my opinion. Of course manure is used in farming and other things, so it can have it's uses, but for my purpose it has none, other than being flushed down the toilet. I know enough about Chinese history to know that the Chinese have never seen peace, even though they have had the tools to cultivate it throughout time. The problem is that the answer requires resolve and sacrifice, not war and strategy. The only strategy required for peace is to give up fighting. Sun Tzu was a military genius, but he was never a wise man. If you wish to categorize a sage as someone who knows much about a topic, then perhaps he was a sage, but he was not a spiritual man or a man who understood the true nature of compassion. A general is a butcher, no matter what he butchers. A man kills a bad man, he is still a killer. I say the simplest things, but it confounds you. If you wish to be certain that you win a fight, then do not fight. If you wish to be happy within this lifetime, then be content with what you have. This doesn't mean if someone attacks you that you do not defend yourself, but so long as you prepare to be attacked, then you will be attacked. So long as you mass an army to defend yourself, then you will need to defend yourself, either from within or without. A peaceful people knows that they do not need swords or spears, but rather to possess nothing that anyone will want to take away from them. What they have they share with those in need, so no one needs to take it away from them. If you truly want your children and loved ones to be happy, then do not strive to be strong, but rather to be compassionate. If you are compassionate and kind and act in a way that is right, then whatever happens to you or your children is better than what happens to those who wage war. It is better that every peaceful man be snuffed out from this earth, then for them to live in a world where men continue to slaughter each other with abandon. Aaron Edit- I'm not saying these things to be popular, but rather saying what is true. There has never been peace in the history of mankind, simply because we no longer follow the heartmind, but instead avarice and greed. Give up these things and peace will follow. Continue to fight for equality and you will never find it, simply because those who gain it, must also take from those who have it. It is better to raise our children with a nature of sharing and compassion, then a nature of wants and entitlement. That's why I say it's better for your child to die knowing compassion and kindness, then being taught that they deserve more than anyone else. They may die young, but they will die happy, the latter will live a life of suffering and want for the remainder of their years.

Sun Tzu was not a sage in my book. He taught how to kill, plain and simple. If you would like to find another example, that's fine, but I'm not interested in debating when you are using a faulty foundation for your argument. Find something that does not advocate violence, for whatever sake, and then we can talk, til then you have already lost the argument. Aaron

You don't get it, I understand that, but let me tell you, there are people living in prisons, who will never see the light of day, that have found contentment in their lives. They eat crappy food, have someone tell them when to go to the bathroom, when to eat, and when they can go outside. Some of them only see the sky through a small box in the ceiling. The difference between you and them is that they are happy with what they have. They focus on what they have, not what they don't have. So the wise man says, eat when you are hungry, drink when you are thirsty, crap when you need to go to the bathroom, Sleep when you are tired, but never let anyone tell you that things bring you happiness, that the greatest things in human life are the relationships you experience, no the truest, greatest virtue, comes from giving up everything and understanding the nature of yourself and all things. When you can give up what you have graciously, gratefully, and gleefully, then you will find true peace, and within that peace lies true power. The sage leads people, but they don't know it. They support him, but no one feels his weight, he has nothing, but is never left wanting. He is happy like a newborn babe, but no one can understand why. Now I also say, do not willfully allow yourself to come to harm or suffer. Do not allow others to come to harm or suffer, rather live peacefully with those around you and in living in peace, you will find harmony in the world. Lay down your weapons, refuse to fight, and you have already won the battle. Aaron

Hello Sloppy, You've expressed many times that you think it's perfectly fine to learn martial arts in order to protect yourself and others. I see you choose to carry on the debate here as well and that's fine too. First you obviously don't understand what I am saying when I say, "do not value". Did I not say be compassionate as well? Would it be compassionate to allow another to harm someone? Do you think you it would be possible to connect the dots and say, that I was possibly talking about the ego and material wants and desires? That if one does not value their self, in the sense that they do not care what others think of them, do not value goods, in the sense that they will give them away freely to those who want them, then one has little to fear? Now if you want an example of this then look to the sage, but I really thought it was clear in my first comments. Remember the phrase, those who live by the sword, die by the sword? Well that's paraphrased in nearly every language and culture across the world. People, even the least spiritual, understand on an intuitive level that only by living peacefully with one's neighbor can one be assured peace in their lives. There are those who will feel the need to enforce their will on others and then their are those who will not resist them. Some may look down on these people, call them weak, but these are the same people who live their lives freely, because no matter what they do or are forced to do, no one can master them, because they want nothing and hold onto nothing, so nothing can be taken from them. These people are the ones who have true power. Those who force themselves on others are weak and wanting, hungry and never full, they are not satisfied because they can never have enough. You can choose which you'd rather be. I'd rather be the slave who is content, than a master who can never be happy. Aaron

Hello Cat Pillar, The first thing I'd say is that you know a lot. Do you know what color the sky is, how to tie your shoe, how to throw a ball, or even what foods are considered breakfast foods? Do you not know this? Well then, it seems logical that you would know other things based on your experience in this world, for example what compassionate actions are and what they aren't. You would also most likely have a gauge regarding what actions are right and what one's are wrong. However, if you would rather not worry about morality, social mores, compassion, or doing what is "right", then being ambiguous in regards to what you "know" and what is "right" is a good way to go. In regards to contentment, pain is the touchstone of change, but it is in no way the only way we learn to change (or learn for that matter). One who is truly on the path to awareness-heartmind-enlightenment will find contentment whether they choose to or not. I wish you luck, but I can't really help you with your answer anymore than I already have. Aaron

Hello Everything, I think the answer you're looking for is that there is no truth and that there are no lies, but that would be a simplistic explanation of what you're trying to come to terms with. The fact of the matter is that there are truths and lies, they are simply a construct of the mind and hence the person you view yourself to be. Now so long as you see yourself in this context, as a being that exists within a shell of flesh, then you will most likely also be stuck with the idea that there are truths and lies. However, if you can see past the illusion of self, understand that you are not simply the being within a body, but the whole of the body, that you are not simply a person sitting in your home, but you are the entirety of your home (an the universe), then what you will find irrevocably is that the truth does not exist on a universal level, rather what exists are actions. There is no right or wrong, high or low, or even truth or lie, but rather there are things that interact with other things, nothing more. Even then, if you go deeper you will see that even these actions are transient in nature, that in fact all things corporeal have a limited time to remain in this universe. If even the rocks and earth will dissolve into nothing, then how can we even begin to believe that there is any kind of lasting truth? Aaron

Well that's good, once you lose your weight, I'm sure you'll be much happier with your self image, especially since weight seems to be a big issue for you. You're much better at backpedaling then Shen, but hopefully you'll take his queue and just drop this conversation. You guys were expressing ideas laced with bigotry, let it go and we can go back to enjoying this forum without all the BS you guys keep tossing around in the name of facts and "truth". From the way you two have been handling yourselves in this thread, I'm pretty sure neither one of you would be able to recognize the truth if it hit you smack upside the hide. Aaron

Trolling for responses... the way you phrased your comments is indicative of a troll, hence the reason I said you were trolling. Now to clarify a bit more about your comment, you mentioned the obesity research that was done, without mentioning that most clinicians agree that more testing is needed before we can fully understand what these findings mean. So you are taking a relatively new study, one most people might find offensive, so far as it classifies obese people as being less intelligent and unable to function at the same mental capacity as a normal weight person, and associating it with my comment regarding masturbation being healthy and that science and psychology have proven this to be true (over and over for the last four decades). So you can feign ignorance or innocence, claim I'm paranoid, or anything else you want to do, but I'm not going to sit back and let you brain wash the people here into believing this nonsense about masturbation. I will apologize however if you weren't intending to insinuate that masturbation was sinful, wrong, unhealthy, unspiritual, or anything like that, but my view of your comment and the previous comments you've made, including erroneous statements regarding Mohammed and other religions, leads me to believe you're really only helping Shen along with his hate mongering, only you're taking the side of the PC friendly faction. Aaron

Do they come by these figures by examining overweight people who fail to make correct logical assumptions, sort of like seeing masturbation typed out correctly numerous times and still spelling it masterbation? Just curious, have you ever thought of a spellchecker? Now to get back to your comment, yes I have seen the correlations that have been mentioned in regards to obesity and cognitive dysfunction, not disfunction by the way. Again, get a spell checker. I mean I know you've watched numerous shows and read all those articles, so shouldn't you have dysfunction down by now? Anyways back to the cognitive disfunction (crap now you have me doing it!) I would tend to say that the verdict is still out in that regards, especially with some recent studies done in Argentina and elsewhere that call into question what nature hormones and menopause have to play in these findings. (In case you missed it, since it wasn't on CNN, in three tests obese women on average scored higher than their normal weight counterparts.) Anywho, in regards to masturbation, can you show me the studies where it says normal masturbation is unhealthy (not sinful mind you, but unhealthy)? See I leave the onus on you simply because nearly everyone here has heard, or knows, that modern science (and post dark age psychology) has found that normal masturbation not only releases endorphins and chemicals in the brain decreasing depression and anxiety, but also reduces your chances of prostate cancer. (True dat!) So my advice, whip it out, have a go, and help fight prostate cancer and depression. Spread the word, masturbation is healthy, fun, and free, and doing it regularly will help to keep you happy and prostate cancer free! Yay for masturbation! You're trolling Mike, maybe you should go find a bridge to hide under, it might be more comfortable for you while you wait to jump out at people passing by. Hopefully while you're there you can check your spelling. Okay, I'm sorry if I joked about your spelling, but if you're going to attack something with such a lame argument, then you should expect a little humor at your expense. Aaron edit- At least I didn't make fun of your grammar... I mean you did say "I seen it on CNN and fox news"... oh wait. Crap I just did. Now I'm just depressed... Oh well, guess I'll have to go do something about that.

Edited- The original poster deleted their post, so in respect I deleted my reply. Aaron

I understand that you posted that, but you can't post that and then say the things you did about "alcoholics, masturbators, homosexuals, etc." and claim no foul. Your comments do not reflect enlightenment or wisdom, but rather stem from the ideology that you have learned. One who has reached a state of enlightenment knows sex has very little to do with enlightenment. It is not required in any way for one to abstain from sex in order to achieve an awareness, rather it requires discipline, dedication, and openness. If one is able to maintain these characteristics in their practice then they can eat whatever they want, have sex (and masturbate), drink alcohol (moderately), and enjoy any other vice in moderation, because they will and can understand that these things are transient and in knowing their transient nature appreciate these acts for what they actually are. So the monk should, have sex before they reach enlightenment and after reaching enlightenment continue to have sex, because in reaching enlightenment they will understand that no act is sinful, nor is any act right or wrong, rather an act is an act, and in knowing this, their desire is to be compassionate, not deny others the pleasures that they have in this life, monk or layman. Aaron

Hello Friend, I understand what you're saying and why you believe what you do, but I disagree. I wont argue with you about it, because I see you are not saying these things with the intent of labeling anyone anything, but rather expressing why you believe certain people should behave in certain ways. In other words, although you might disagree with these actions, I do not sense that you are a bigot. Aaron

So Shen Chi Jing how are these people suffering, other than the alcoholic of course? Oh God, they are experiencing an orgasm and having sex with someone they are attracted too! Stop that immediately, don't you know that life is about suffering! You must suffer, if you are enjoying life, then you will never be able to reach enlightenment. Our members must abstain from enjoying life or anything like that. And all the while boys are being molested in temples, monks are engaging in homosexual acts, and it's all swept under the rug, because refraining from sexual acts is necessary to achieve enlightenment. It's bullshit actually, it's just, as I said, one of the ways that you enforce your will over others. If you want to completely control the way someone behaves, you must control their most basic needs. Control their sexual behavior, food, and thoughts, to the best of your ability. Whether it's christianity, buddhism, or any other 'ism', the goal for most of the top church officials, isn't to spread the faith, but to gain more power for themselves. When you can name me a religion where they've taught their followers to overcome their sexual desires in a way that they didn't act on them, then I'll believe that they have something down, but so far I've yet to see one. Christians, muslims, buddhists, hindus, jews, taoists, and the list goes on... Compassion is not encouraging someone to deny those things that are free to them... masturbation, sex, and of course love for one another, but rather to encourage people to enjoy the life they have. I really get tired of all the bigots on this forum. Aaron

I was going to stay out of this thread, because I'm not a follower of any of the religions being discussed, but I need to shake off the good nature that I have been caught up in and come down to the pragmatic level so that the things being professed in this thread can be pulled out into the light and exposed for what they really are. First Mohammed did marry a nine year old girl, but what most people don't know about the story, or choose to leave out, was that she was orphaned and had no one to care for her, so Mohammed married her to ensure someone was caring for her, but there has never been any evidence that he consummated that marriage until after the girl was of a respected age for that time. That's all I will say about Mohammed because I understand that people can be easily offended in these discussions. Second when we talk about sexuality, masturbation, homosexuality, and alcoholism, one thing that we should also address is that our knowledge of these practices has increased immeasurably since the times these backwards ideas flourished in certain cultures. Now regarding the remarks made in this thread about masturbators. From a psychological and scientific point of view there is nothing wrong with masturbation, it's enjoyable and actually quite healthy in moderation. From a spiritual point of view it is also healthy, because it is a release of stress and this release of stress allows one to be able to focus their life on spiritual goals without this distraction. Those who place limits on sexual behavior, including masturbation, more often than not, use this as a means to control their followers through guilt. In my own flavor of spirituality I not only encourage masturbation in moderation, but discourage people from chastity that includes excluding masturbation. Another remark that showed a great deal of ignorance was in regards to alcoholism. Alcoholism is not only treatable, but the best way to treat alcoholism is by encouraging a regiment of spirituality and deep introspection. Now most people who are alcoholics will either not seek treatment or fail in recovery because they have no sincere desire to quit drinking, but those who do have a much higher chance of recovery if they have a strong support network that is willing to help them in their struggle. As men (and women) of a spiritual persuasion it should seem quite logical that we would desire to help those rare individuals triumph over such a debilitating illness if we are capable of doing so. The comment that most disturbed me was in regards to homosexuality. It amazes me that today we can still condemn two adults for loving each other and performing acts that harm no one involved (including themselves). This too is a means of control used my religious authorities, simply because it restricts the nature of sex and defines sex in a healthy way according to strict guidelines that enable these authorities to exert their authority over those who fail to follow their rule. Now there are cultures where homosexuality is not only allowed, but those homosexuals also have a valued place within their community. The problem with most western cultures is that they are following an outdated mode of ethos that involves judeo-christian ethics that were created well over 2,000 years ago. The fact of the matter is that the winner of the war writes history. Christians, Muslims, and Buddhists, for the most part have won the wars. These are the three largest religions in the world and as a result they have kept these ideas regarding sin alive for, again, over 2,000 years. Now the ray of hope is that even within these communities people are starting to wake up and realize that just because something was deemed wrong and sinful all those years ago, doesn't necessarily mean they still are. Progress is needed in all things, including religion and until we are able to understand that blindly following what's been handed down will only lead to the recurring bloodshed and violence will we be able to stop this bloodshed and say enough is enough. So for those who hate masturbators, homosexuals, and alcoholics, I say you are being deceived. If God in any manifestation you choose to see him as, did not intend for these things to happen, then he would've clearly not allowed them to happen. If God did not love the masturbator, homosexual, and alcoholic, then it seems like he would be more than capable of dealing with them on his own. If you claim you are acting on the behalf of God making these decrees, then perhaps you should ask what gives you the right to do that? Did God come down and tell you directly, if not have you asked him to direct you? Has he given you a personal reply? If not then perhaps you should not rely on the words of others simply because they have said he has. Think for yourself and allow yourself to cultivate compassion in your life and perhaps you will be able to see past these things and understand that we are at a crossroads where many of the horrible things that have been perpetrated on this world for uncounted centuries can be stopped and all people can find the capacity for love in their lives, not love as it is dictated by ideology, but rather love as it is dictated by the virtue that lives within the deepest part of the human heart and universe. Aaron

Forum hiccuped and I double posted... sorry about that. Aaron

Do what YOU know is right. If you do this and it is right then no harm will come to you or others. Those who crave power are more often than not filled with fear. This fear drives them to protect themselves from loss. The cure to being rid of this craving is not to value those things you might lose. Be content with what you have, do not want what others have, and you will find peace in your life and will never need power. Aaron