Simple_Jack

From Master Nan Huaijin's "The Story of Chinese Zen" trans. by Thomas Cleary: http://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/The%20story%20of%20Chinese%20Zen.pdf (pg.64-78) The Zen school is a combination of the mental reality of Shakyamuni Buddha's teaching with the spirit of Chinese culture, forming Chinese Buddhism, blending the most refined and purified schools of ancient Indian Buddhist philosophy. In Buddhist study, "Zen concentration" is a method of cultivating realization practiced by both Hinayana and Mahayana, the Small Vehicle and the Great Vehicle. Although the Zen school is not other than the cultivation and realization of Zen concentration, it is not exactly the same thing as Zen concentration. Therefore, it is also called the Mind school, or the Prajna school. "Mind school" indicates that the Zen school is the transmission of the mental reality of Buddhist teachings. Prajna refers to the Zen schools from the Tang dynasty on, which placed emphasis on the scriptures on prajna (wisdom) and on seeking realization of the liberation of wisdom...In general, there are six large misunderstandings of what is presently called Zen...The second misunderstanding derives from the fondness of Oriental scholars for intellectualizing and philosophizing about the literature of Lao-tzu and Chuang-tzu, due to which they perpetuate the myth that Zen has been influenced by the philosophy of these men, or, to put it another way, that Zen is just Taoistic Buddhism amalgamating the philosophy of Lao-tzu and Chuang-tzu. In reality, although Zen and Buddhism have borrowed many terms and expressions from the technical languages of Lao-Chuang (Taoism) and Confucianism, nevertheless they are just borrowings; the spirit of Zen itself is not by any means to be considered a remake or remodeled form of Lao-Chuang or Taoist thought just because it borrows some of their terms and expressions....The third misunderstanding is picking up situational actions and pivotal words found in the method of transmitting Zen teaching and turning them into a distorted lofty silence or parody, always speaking ambiguously and cryptically, while considering this to be the state of Zen. This misleads people quite a bit....The so-called "special transmission" of Zen "outside of doctrine" does not mean that there is a secret or arcane transmission that basically does not need the scriptural teachings of Buddhism. The whole body of principles of Buddhist scriptural teachings is for the purpose of explaining the theory and methods of how to cultivate practice and seek realization. Therefore, people who cling to the principles of the scriptural teachings often turn them into philosophical thought, thereby producing the countereffect of increasing intellectual barriers and divisions. Thus they cannot achieve unity of knowledge and action and realize the effect of practice and vision advancing together simultaneously. So the special transmission outside the doctrine just represents a variance from the usual method of transmission of Buddhism; it does not refer to a special extraordinary teaching outside of the principles of the Buddhist teachings....When one attains to real enlightenment and arrives at the actual truth, however, this naturally will merge with the basis of intellectual learning that one has, and one will clearly understand the ultimate principle. This is why the later Zen Master Kuei-shan Ling-yu said, "The noumenal ground of reality does not have a single atom in it, yet the avenues of myriad practices do not reject a single method." ....Besides transmitting the mind teaching, at the same time Great Master Bodhidharma still wanted Shen-kuang to seal the mind with the Lankavatara sutra. By this we can see that the Zen specially transmitted outside of the doctrine is not separate from the principles of the teachings at all. The Lankavatara sutra was, after all, handed on to Shen-kuang by Great Master Bodhidharma to be a valuable reference book for sealing the mind.....In sum, the doctrinal principles of the Lankavatara sutra lay greatest emphasis on analytic observation and insight, entering minutely into where there is no gap, penetrating completely through the substance and function of the nature of mind. The method of Zen is to absorb the principles and concentrate on single-minded cultivation of realization in harmony with the principles of the teachings. Therefore, in later Zen there was a famous proverb that said, "If you master the source but not the teachings, whenever you open your mouth you will speak at random; if you master the teachings but not the source, you will be like a one-eyed dragon." In reality, this idea is just a rephrasing of the expressions used in the Lankavatara sutra itself referring to mastery of the source and mastery of the explanation. Recently some people have presented the Zen school before the sixth patriarch under the rubric of the Lankavatara school, and have thereby treated Zen after the sixth patriarch as a separate domain. Actually, this is a result of not understanding the real Zen mind teaching. They did not avoid adding legs to a drawing of a snake, making an unnecessary step. When Great Master Bodhidharma was entrusting the transmission to the second patriarch Shen-kuang, he predicted, "Two hundred years after my death . . . those who understand the Way will be many, but those who travel the Way will be few. Those who talk about the principle will be many, but those who master the principle will be few." ... (pg.131-135) The public cases and sharp points of potential, as well as caning and shouting, belong to the domain of Zen teaching methods. It is imperative to know them, and it is furthermore essential to understand thoroughly where their function lies, as well as the conditions obtaining for the particular time, event, and person for which they were used. Outside of this, however, they are definitely not to be taken for the ultimate message and purpose of Zen as is happening today. If you really and truly want to understand the essential Zen method of communicating mind, it is particularly necessary to pay attention to the sermons, lectures, informal meetings, evening meetings, and other such summaries of the teaching in the recorded sayings of Zen masters. That is Zen study on comparatively solid ground...The individual works of the great Zen masters, including their letters in reply to questions, are all very good sources for Zen study. If you neglect them and do not put them to use, instead just bringing up stories of sharp wit to generalize about Zen, that is running in the opposite direction from the Way. Do not under any circumstances fool people with such stories, for this is really more than a trivial misdeed...Zen is of course the peculiarly Chinese form of Chinese Buddhism, but from the point of view of the complete system of Buddhist studies founded by Shakyamuni, its basic message did not fundamentally change Shakyamuni's essential message after it was amalgamated with Chinese culture. What it produced was a form peculiar to Chinese culture in terms of its mode of teaching, its terminology, and its manner of expressing the highest truths, going so far as even absorbing, combining, and borrowing terms and modes from Confucianism and Taoism....In sum, we should not under any circumstances forget that Zen is based on the teaching of realizing the ineffable heart of nirvana, attaining freedom from birth and death, and transcending things. How could it just be vainly putting forward empty words divorced from the principles of Buddhism? ... (pg.148-158) Throughout the preceding discussions of the connections between Buddhism and Chinese history and culture, the simple introduction to the contents of Buddhism, and this last discussion of several important points about Zen, it can be generally understood that Zen is the mental reality of Buddhism, and that the main teaching of Buddhism lays emphasis on practical cultivation to seek realization, not on philosophical issues that are matters of purely theoretical discussion....After Zen was transmitted into China, even though it evolved further into a Chinese-style school, it gradually transformed the Buddhist teachings only in terms of instructional method and linguistic expression, substituting colloquial language and popular literature to express the lofty and profound principles of Buddhism. When it came to the heart and goal of Zen, it still was not apart from the original quest of Buddhism....as for the process of real Zen, if we reduce it to essentials there are two conditions, mental work and insight, which are like the two wings of a bird or the two wheels of a chariot -- it is necessary to have both....Then Ancestor Ma asked, "Does this have becoming and decay?" The Zen master answered, "If you see the Way in terms of becoming and decay, or in terms of assemblage and dissolution, then this is not the Way," after which he said in verse, The mind ground contains all seeds; When there is moisture, all of them sprout. The flower of samadhi is formless; What decays, and what becomes? Hearing the master's instructions, Ancestor Ma gained access to enlightenment, and his mind soared to the freedom of liberation. After this he followed Great Master Huai-jang for nine years, making daily progress in penetrating the inner mysteries of the mental reality of Buddhism....even in his case, neither will it do to overlook the fact that he had certainly already gone through a long period of intense practice of meditation concentration before his enlightenment; only thus was he able to wake up to enlightenment suddenly on receiving the simple explanations of Great Master Huai-jang of Nan-yueh...How can we arbitrarily say that the Zen of sudden enlightenment at a word is such an easy thing?

From Nan Huaijin's "The Story of Chinese Zen" trans. by Thomas Cleary, pgs.153-154: ....Meditation concentration and psychic powers are all creations of mind, realms of experience that can be reached through mind, will, and consciousness. If you gain some proficiency in these areas yet still cannot clearly understand what enables you to attain meditation concentration, what enables you to produce the functions of psychic powers, this mind that is the heart of the basic potency, then what is the condition of this state of yours in the ultimate sense? Where does it ultimately come from? Where is it ultimately going to? What sort of thing, in the ultimate sense, is its basic substance? If one was accomplished in meditation concentration and psychic powers yet did not know this mind, would one not still be as before, an ignorant human being who does not know the ultimate nature of the universe and human life? That is why the Lankavatara sutra says that these states and experiences are nothing but disguises of consciousness itself. The sutra also clearly says, "Even if you attain the nine stages of concentration in the present, these are still things that are reflections of discrimination of phenomena as objects," thus summing up the case. The Sung Dynasty real human Chang Tzu-yang, who studied Zen through the Taoist school of spiritual immortalism, also said, "Even if you have a halo crowning your head, it is still a mirage; even if clouds arise under your feet, you are still not immortal!"

That's not what I implied, but Buddhist discussions on TTB's don't come anywhere near that level of discourse, whereas you're more likely to see that type of discussion on DW, where quotations of the various viewpoints from various Buddhist scholars past and present, are warranted. Like I said above, there's a time and place for delving into intermediary to advanced discourse depending on the circumstances. Bullshit, you should have been here 3 or more years ago, disdain was openly shown towards Buddhism by the regular posters, even by some who are still active on these forums. Granted, Buddhist discourse pisses of eternalists/perennialists, and the way in which it was introduced and engaged on these forums was not exactly fostering an environment of mutual admiration. By the time you signed up it had already begun to cool down some and it helped that there was a separate sub-forum for Buddhism; the moderation on these forums are definitely more lenient than DW though.

It's about time Liezi received some attention on these forums. Here's a collection of published essays under the title of "Riding the Wind With Liezi: New Perspectives on the Daoist Classic": http://www.google.com/url?q=http://books.google.com/books/about/Riding_the_Wind_with_Liezi.html%3Fid%3D_l6akYls-cMC&sa=U&ei=us-bU6D4NeWxsATbiYDoBw&ved=0CA8QFjAC&usg=AFQjCNFJtzq8HmIHzKbb0igi89uo6_117w.

C'mon, don't overexaggerate, it's not like the finer points of Svatantrika vs. Prasangika are being delineated; we're talking "Heart Sutra", basic Mahayana stuff, here. It's only ever a couple threads, and the same group of posters, who go back and forth endlessly on DW. It's not an overarching issue like you make it seem. You guys are selectively targeting DW as if that never happens on the TTB's; the occurrences aren't any more or less infrequent than on the TTB's. "Speaking from the heart" doesn't necessarily mean overly vague and emotionally appealing catch-phrases, technical terms and quotations have their place and time (depending on the audience), but admittedly for the vast majority of lay practitioners, the use of simplified language, is needed in order for the teachings to be 'internalized'.

If anyone responding in this thread invested even just a quarter of the amount of interest towards understanding buddhadharma, as you did Gnosticism, Hermeticism, neo-Platonism, etc., then Buddhist concepts such as non-arising won't remain a mystery for long.

How non-arising is applied in Sutra Mahamudra vipashyana: http://www.chagchen.com/.

My quotes were posted in order to answer your question here http://thetaobums.com/topic/35103-what-is-wisdom-in-dzogchen/?p=552264:

If you've attempted to evaluate the validity of buddhadharma through Hegel, this possibly indicates you've never actually taken much stock in wanting to understand it accurately. Which brings us back around to the question, of whether you can accept the basic premise of freedom from the afflictions (which drives the process of reincarnation, but let's not take that into account here), as the commonly shared motivation between Dharmic religions.

The Story of Chinese Zen by Nan Huai-Chin trans. by Thomas Cleary: http://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/The%20story%20of%20Chinese%20Zen.pdf The Koan: Texts and Contexts in Zen Buddhism by Steven Heine & Dale S. Wright: http://terebess.hu/zen/TheKoan.pdf The Zen Canon: Understanding the Classic Texts by Steven Heine & Dale S. Wright: http://terebess.hu/zen/ZenCanon.pdf Zen Classics: Formative Texts in the History of Zen Buddhism by Steven Heine & Dale S. Wright: http://terebess.hu/zen/ZenClassics.pdf Zen Ritual: Studies of Zen Buddhist Theory in Practice by Steven Heine & Dale S. Wright: http://terebess.hu/zen/ZenRitual.pdf Zen Masters by Steven Heine & Dale S. Wright: http://terebess.hu/zen/ZenMasters.pdf

"Nonthought is to be without thought in the context of thoughts." (Platform Sutra, ch 4; p 43; tr McRae) "in wisdom’s contemplation both interior and exterior are clearly penetrated, and one recognizes one’s own fundamental mind. If you recognize your fundamental mind, this is the fundamental emancipation. And if you attain emancipation, this is the samādhi of prajñā, this is nonthought. What is nonthought? If in seeing all the dharmas, the mind is not defiled or attached, this is nonthought. [The mind’s] functioning pervades all locations, yet it is not attached to all the locations. ... to be enlightened to the Dharma of nonthought is for the myriad dharmas to be completely penetrated. To be enlightened to the Dharma of nonthought is to see the realms of [all] the buddhas. To be enlightened to the Dharma of nonthought is to arrive at the stage of buddhahood." (ch 2; p 33, 34) ~ The Sixth Patriarch

"A Man's Root" Eight inches strong, it is my favourite thing; If I'm alone at night, I embrace it fully - A beautiful woman hasn't touched it for ages. Within my fundoshi there is an entire universe! "A Woman's Sex" It has the original mouth but remains wordless; It is surrounded by a magnificent mound of hair. Sentient beings can get completely lost in it But it is also the birthplace of all the Buddhas of the ten thousand worlds. On the sea of death and life, The diver's boat is frightened With "Is" and "Is not"; But if the bottom is broken through, "Is" and "Is not" disappear. night plum blossoms spreading under a branch between her thighs narcissus revolves smell it? ~ Ikkyu Sojun http://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/IkkyuSkeletons.html Skeletons by Zen Master Ikkyu Translated by Thomas F. Cleary In: The Original Face: An Anthology of Rinzai Zen, Grove Press, 1978. pp. 79-92. It is in the written word that all things can be seen together. In the beginning of mental evolution, one should concentrate on sitting meditation. Whatever is born in any land all becomes naught. One's own body is not primary: not even the original face of sky and earth and all nations and lands is primary -- all come from emptiness. Because it has no form, it is called Buddha, enlightened. Various names such as enlightened mind, mental buddha, mind of reality, buddhas, enlightened ancestors, spiritized ones -- all come from this. Unless you realize this, you're going right to hell. Also, according to the teaching of good people, we do not return after going separate ways into the lands of darkness; those who are close and those who are inconstant both revolve in the flow of the three realms -- feeling ever more weary of this, I left my native village, going nowhere in particular. Coming to an unfamiliar abandoned temple, even as I wrung out my sleeves, I realized it was already nightfall. With no way to get together even a grass pillow for a nap, as I looked around here and there, there were mossy graves at a distance from the path, near the foot of the mountain, where the fields of meditation were sparse. One especially miserable-looking skeleton came out from behind the hall and said: The autumn wind has risen in the world, in the fields and mountains where you'll go when the fall flowers beckon. What can be done for the body, as a black-dyed sleeve in the heart of a man who wastes it? [1] Everyone must sometime become naught. Becoming naught is called "returning to the fundamental." When you sit facing a wall, the thoughts which arise from conditioning are all unreal. The Buddha's fifty years of teachings are not real either. It's just to know people's minds. Wondering if there were anyone who understands this suffering, I went into the hall and spent the night there, even lonelier than usual, unable to sleep. Around dawn, as I dozed off a bit, in a dream I went out behind the hall, and saw a crowd of skeletons all acting in different ways, just like people in the world. As I watched with a sense of wonder, some skeletons came up and said: When it passes without a memory, this worthless body becomes a dream. If you divide the way of enlightenment into buddhas and kami, how can you enter the true path? [2] As long as it travels the road of life in the present for a while, the corpse in the fields seems elsewhere. [3] Anyway, as I got familiar with them and relaxed, the feeling l'd had of separation between myself and others disappeared. What's more, my skeleton companions wanted to give up the world and seek the truth; seeking separation from excess, going from shallow to deep -- in searching out the source of one's own mind, what fills the ears is the sound of wind in the pines, what blocks the eyes is left on the pillow under the moon. When are we not in a dream, when are we not skeletons, after all? Male and female forms exist only as long as these skeletons are wrapped up and put to use inside five-tone flesh; when life ends and the body bag breaks, there are no such forms -- neither are high or low distinguished. Under the flesh which you now care for and enjoy, this skeleton is wrapped up and set in motion; you should acquiesce to this idea -- in this there is no difference between high and low, old and young. Only when you awaken to the condition of the one great matter will you know the imperishable truth. If a stone is good enough for an effigy after death, hang a scrap of writing on a monument of five elements -- What is it? Oh! A frightening figure of a man! While you have the single cloudless moon how have you come to the darkness of the fleeting world? You must think it true; when the breath stops and the skin of the body comes apart, everyone turns out like this -- your body cannot live forever. A sign of how long is your time are the pines of Sumiyoshi planted before. Give up the mind that thinks there is a self; just go with the wind driving the floating cloud of the body, and come this way. You want to live indefinitely, to the same age; you would really think so -- this is the same frame of mind. Since the world is a sleepless dream, in vain do people start awake upon seeing this. It is useless to pray for a definite lifespan. You shouldn't keep anything on your mind except the One Great Matter. Since life in the human world is uncertain, it is not a matter of awakening to this just now for the first time. Since it is a way to become detached, the sorrow of the world is quite happy. Why adorn a mere temporary form? Didn't you know it had to be [temporary] like this? The original body must return to the original place; don'T seek out where you won't go. Nobody understands life; there is no dwelling place -- when you return, you must become the original earth. Although there are many paths up the base of the mountain, we see the same moon on the high peak. Since where you are going you don't establish a home there, there's not even a road to get lost on. Having no beginning or end, one's mind should not be thought of as being born, or dying. Left to do as it will, the mind doesn't even think things through -- better to have controlled it and given up the world. Rain, sleet, snow, ice -- as such they may be different, but when melted they're the same valley stream water. Although the path of the liberated mind may change, behold the same law of the cloud dweller. [4] A straight path buried under the fallen pine needles; hardly do we realize it is a house where people dwell. How hopeless, the trip to the funeral pyre -- [5] as the fallen, they must stay. [is it transitory, the trip to the burning pyre? as the fallen, they must stay.] Tired of the world, how long will you see the evening smoke of the pyre as another's sorrow? How fleeting, the faces of the people whom we saw only yesterday, as they vanish into the smoky evening. So sad, the evening smoke of the funeral pyres; only the sky is left behind by the wind, as it was before. Of what becomes ash when burnt, earth when buried, what could be left as sin? The sins committed up till the age of three all disappear together, as does eventually the self. This must be what is certain in the world. Thinking how vain are those who do not realize that even today, right now, there must be such helplessness and death, and are startled by it, if asked how their lives should be, some say that these days, unlike the past, they are leaving the temples. In olden times, those who aspired to the way would enter a monastery, but nowadays they are all leaving the monasteries. When you look at them, the monks have no knowledge, they don't like to sit and meditate; without making any efforts, they admire utensils, adorn cushions -- full of conceit, they make their reputation just by wearing the robe, but even wearing the robe of monkhood, they are surely just lay people in disguise. Even though they wear the robe and surplice, the robe becomes a rope tying them up, and the surplice becomes an iron rod thrashing them, so it seems. If we look carefully into the meaning of the cycles of birth and death, destroying life leads to hell, by greed we become hungry ghosts, by ignorance we become animals, by anger we become titans; by maintaining the five precepts [6] we are born human, and by carrying out the ten virtues [7] we are born divine. Above these state are the four holy ones [8] -- added all together, they make ten realms. Looking at this single moment of thought, [9] it has no shape, it abides nowhere for its duration, and there is nothing in it to despise and reject. It is like clouds in the vast sky, like bubbles on the water. Just because there are no thoughts arising, there is nothing to do either. Thoughts and things are one emptiness. I don't know about people's doubts. People's parents are like striking fire: the steel is the father; the flint is the mother; the spark is the child. Setting this to a wick, when the sustenance of fuel and oil is exhausted, the fire goes out. When the father and mother make love, that is like the fire coming forth; since father and mother have no beginning, eventually they fade away in the mind where the fire has gone out. Openly embracing all things through emptiness, all forms are produced. When you let go of all forms, this is called the basic ground. All forms -- of plants, trees, and land -- all come from emptiness, so as a temporary metaphor it is called the fundamental ground. When you break up a cherry tree and look, there are no flowers at all; the flowers are brought by the spring wind. Even though you soar boundlessly even beyond the clouds, just don't rely on the teachings of Gautama. If, hearing the teachings spoken by Gautama over fifty years, you want to try to put the teachings into practice, what Gautama said at the end was that from the beginning to the end he had not said a single word; instead, he raised a flower in his hand, whereat Kasyapa smiled faintly. Then Gautama said, "I have the straight- forward heart of the true teaching," and put down the flower. If you wonder what it means, Gautama said, in effect, "What I have been teaching for some fifty years is like when you're cuddling a baby pretending to be holding something in your hand; my fifty-odd years of teaching was like this call to Kasyapa." Therefore the teachings which he transmitted were like the cuddling of the baby. But this flower cannot be known by means of the body, nor is it the mind; even speaking of it, you cannot know it. You should understand this body and mind thoroughly. Even if you are called a knowledgeable person, you cannot [therefore] be called a Buddhist. As for this flower, the teaching of the one vehicle of all the buddhas of past, present, and future appearing in the world refers to this flower. From the twenty-eight patriarchs in India and six patriarchs in China up till now, there has never been anything but the fundamental ground. Because everything is beginningless, it is called great; all modes of consciousness are produced from emptiness. Even the summer, fall, and winter of the flowers of spring, the colors of the plants and trees, also are made from emptiness. Also, the so-called four gross elements are earth, water, fire, and air. People hardly know what these are. Breath is air, warmth is fire, body fluid is water; if you burn or bury this, it becomes earth. There, too, because there is no beginning, nothing remains at all. Whatever it is is nothing but the world of delusion since even "death" does not turn out to be a real vacation. Everybody, everybody, in the eyes of illusion though the body dies the spirit does not die -- this is a great mistake. In the language of the enlightened, they say that the body and the seed die as one. Even "Buddha" means emptiness. You should return to the basic ground of sky, earth, land, and everything. Giving up the eighty thousand teachings of all the scriptures, just understand this all rolled into one. You will become people of great peace and happiness. Even written down, they're just marks made in a dream; after waking up, there is no one else who asks. 4/8/1457 Ikkyu-shi Sojun, seventh generation after Xutang, in Daitoku Temple before the eastern sea. Notes to Ikkyu's Skeletons 1. The black-dyed sleeve symbolizes renunciation, as the robe of the homeless. A verse of Saint Ippen (1239-1289), a pure land sage of earlier Japan, says, "Giving up the body as well as the idea of giving up, an unthinking black-dyed sleeve in the world." Contained in homonymy and association is the sense "You should live in the world after renunciation, giving up even the idea 'I abandon.''' This is why Ikkyu still warns against wasting it. 2. Kami are nature spirits associated with Japanese earth and life consciousness; they were thought to protect, accept, and uphold Buddhist teachings. The aforementioned Saint Ippen received his major revelations through the mediumship of kami, and later taught the fundamental meaning of prayer underlying all forms of respect. Many eminent Buddhist teachers also preached the nonduality of the spirit and Buddha ways. 3. The corpse in the fields that seems elsewhere is the living body. A verse of Saint Ippen says: "Is it meaningless? While the corpse has not yet decayed, the meadow earth seemed to be elsewhere." This he spoke at the ruins of his grandfather's grave. 4. The law of the cloud dweller is impermanence; in ancient texts it is sometimes used for absolute transcendence or absolute indifference -- we might say, death, as the most personal and cutting expression of impermanence. The great Zen master Hakuin wrote that one who sees into death is safe. 5. The Japanese uses the name of a mountain where bodies were taken to be burned. The variant English reading in parentheses is to highlight the allusion to the sense of the permanence of impermanence. 6. The five precepts are not to kill on purpose; not to steal in any way, even indirectly; not to be greedy or overindulgent in the course of human life; not to drink or sell liquor; and not to lie. 7. "Ten virtues" can have several references. Commonly they refer to the preceding five moral precepts, plus not talking about people's faults, not praising yourself and degrading others, not being stingy or predatory, not being angry without shame, and not repudiating the three treasures of the enlightened ones, their teaching and their communities. In the most ancient teachings, it is said that the Buddha had monks restrain useless mundane talk, but rather discourse on the merits and virtues of ten things: effort, little desire and being content, bravery, learning and the ability to explain the teaching to others, being fearless and unawed, being impeccable in conduct, being accomplished in meditation, wisdom and knowledge, liberation, and the vision and knowledge of liberation. In the esoteric teachings, in which terms Ikkyu sometirnes wrote, there are two explanations: one is not regressing from the determination for enlightenment; not abandoning the three treasures to seek outside ways; not slandering the three treasures and the scriptures of the three vehicles; not doubting places in the very profound scriptures of the great vehicle where you don't understand them; not discouraging anyone determined on enlightenment or causing them to tend to self-enlightenment; not causing uninspired people to go into the lesser vehicles of self- enlightenment; not speaking hastily about the great vehicle in front of those following the lesser vehicles or wrong ideas; not inspiring false ideas; not saying in the presence of outsiders that you have the wonderful precepts of enlightenment; not doing anything harmful or useless to sentient beings. A second set: not abandoning the true teaching; not giving up the spirit of enlightenment; not being stingy with the teachings; not doing anything that is not beneficial to sentient beings; not slandering any of the teachings of the three vehicles; not begrudging teachings; not having false views, like nihilism; encouraging people not to give up their aspiration for enlightenment; not preaching unsuitable teachings to people without consideration of their faculties; not giving people anything that will harm them. 8. The four holy states are sainthood (arhat), self-enlightenment (pratyeka-buddha), bodhisattva, and buddhahood. 9. The ten realms are born of a single moment of thought.

I'm more inclined to create a PPF in order to immortalize the greatness of my acheivements, and as an ultimate gesture of my narcissism, I will use it as a storage for dick pics in various locales.

It's a different type of elitism, than say, having the privelege of being "God's chosen people" by virtue of religious affiliation. It's my life-line in a world where my gretaness goes unnoticed as I am forced to mingle amongst the hordes of lesser people, enduring the taint of mediocrity, yet silently I revel in the knoweldge that my realization sets me apart from the insignificant masses, reassuring my unique stature while putting on airs of camaraderie, gleefully acknowledging they pale in comparison. It's how I get off during the work week. You want to join in? We could get off together. Can neo-Advaita rightfully be considered a 'tradition'? Do you think neo-Advaita is above the Upanishads?

Bump.

Yeah, same with FPMT, they expect people who graduate from the masters program to assume a teaching role (now whether if the individual assumes that role is another question).

I'm always railing against neo-Advaitans and their satsangs at every opportunity, but I can sympathize with Rongzomfan when he dismissed the Zen tradition as a whole when he referred to them as 'those Zen guys'. There's an equivalent potential for ignorance (and nonsense) concerning the buddhadharma within Zen circles.

Zen divides practitioners into 'grades' also.

It seemed that way when you said this: Non-arising is Mahayana 101: emptiness, non-arising, dependent origination, are all synonymous. Do you know why Zen and Vajrayana seem (deceptively) easier to understand? It's because they are geared towards the 'instantaneous' type of practitioners. Mahamudra and Dzogchen divide practitioners into superior, middling, and inferior capacities (or rate at which one 'internalizes'/realizes the teachings). How easy do you think it is for the average Dharma practitioner to (genuinely) instantly realize or just intellectually understand dependent origination/non-arising through pith instructions? Compare that to the amount of neo-Advaita teachers out there giving satsangs and you start to see the bigger picture.

On top of that, persons should preferably have some sort of superficial understanding of what dependent origination is/means (and ideally how that applies to Buddhist practice e.g. four foundations of mindfulness/satipatthana).

I'll summarize it by saying, if you want to adequately understand Mayahana (even just superficially) just read some of the Prajnaparamita Sutras, and stop making unnecessary dichotomies (or extremes) between 'intellectual' vs. 'experiential' when reading the sutras/shastras/tantras and the pithy instructions from prior masters, because for you the individual, the ignorant practitioner, all of it is equally conceptual until the moment of realization. Until then, regard both extensive and concise instructions (on the view that is to be cultivated and eventually realized) as 'fingers pointing at the moon'.

Bump.

Bump.

People just need to read the Heart Sutra, Diamond Sutra, and the Vimalakirti Sutra (w/ commentaries!), then all this will begin to fall into place. Why do you guys love to create unnecessary dichotomies where none exist (particularly when it comes to Dharma discussion)? I remember people constantly insisted Vajrarhidaya and xabir2005 to explain things from their experience i.e. "the heart", and wrote it off as "oh, this is just intellectual". You guys say the same shit when I post stuff from Daniel Ingram, Alex Weith, Thusness, etc. They're all 'empty words', 'fingers pointing at the moon', right?

Likewise, tell the average person in any setting that things are empty, dependently originated, not-self, unsatisfactory, etc., and I guarantee you will receive a puzzled look (that is if they don't already interpret it from an eternalistic framework or bill it as nihilism). It is many times easier for the average person to understand eternalist doctrines (e.g. Advaita Vedanta, Gnosticism, etc.) than it is to understand dependent origination/non-arising on any level; which is why there are so many neo-Advaitan teachers giving satsangs out there in the world. Why do you think Buddha scolded Ananda for saying dependent origination was easy to understand? http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books3/Payutto_Bhikkhu_Dependent_Origination.htm "How amazing! Never before has it occurred to me, Lord. This principle of Dependent Origination, although so profound and hard to see, yet appears to me to be so simple!" "Say not so, Ananda, say not so. This principle of Dependent Origination is a profound teaching, hard to see. It is through not knowing, not understanding and not thoroughly realizing this teaching that beings are confused like a tangled thread, thrown together like bundles of threads, caught as in a net, and cannot escape hell, the nether worlds and the wheel of samsara." [s.II.92] Right, like for example the beginning, intermediate, and advanced courses that FPMT offers its students, it does take a certain period of time to understand even basic Buddhist principles, but buddhadharma is not rocket science. I'm not sure how you're using 'scholar' in this context (few people in the Dharma scene can fit this description), because people on here like to throw this term around, when someone demonstrates that they have a proficient understanding of buddhadharma or if there's a sense they "know too much". Zen talks about non-arising all the time (even using exact terms e.g. non-arising, suchness, empty, dharmata, dharmadhatu, etc.). Here's an excerpt from Dogen's Genjokoan: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/search/label/Zen%20Master%20Dogen?updated-max=2011-03-13T19:52:00%2B08:00&max-results=20&start=7&by-date=false Firewood becomes ash, and it does not become firewood again. Yet, do not suppose that the ash is future and the firewood past. You should understand that firewood abides in the phenomenal expression of firewood, which fully includes past and future and is independent of past and future. Ash abides in the phenomenal expression of ash, which fully includes future and past. Just as firewood does not become firewood again after it is ash, you do not return to birth after death. This being so, it is an established way in buddha-dharma to deny that birth turns into death. Accordingly, birth is understood as no-birth. It is an unshakable teaching in Buddha's discourse that death does not turn into birth. Accordingly, death is understood as no-death. Birth is an expression complete this moment. Death is an expression complete this moment. They are like winter and spring. You do not call winter the beginning of spring, nor summer the end of spring. ... Admittedly, this is somewhat of a unique way of explaining non-arising, but I swear that the bit about the 'firewood' and 'ash' was influenced by some sentences from the Shurangama Sutra (don't quote me on that though).