Simple_Jack

Lol, you were the guy that used to quote Zen on the ordinariness and simplicity of the Buddha's realization as conveyed in such lines as "chop wood, carry water." The purpose of Dharma is to put an end to ignorance.

Obviously, the Buddha taught that other than as a mere conventional designation, the 'self' does not exist as a truly established entity. I personally think that people get too caught up on the notion of anatta, as meaning either 'not-self' or 'no-self', and instead should be focusing on the relational aspect of this concept with anicca and dukkha; along with these implications with the Buddha's teachings on the 5 skandhas, 12 ayatanas, 18 dhatus

Ahhh, ok. I'm just used to people taking "that which cannot be spoken" as meaning that it must be something nebulous or that it can't be pointed to. Take care!

http://terebess.hu/zen/enjoyingtheway.pdf Enjoying the Way, tr. by Jeff Shore [Ledao ge/Rakudô-ka 樂道歌] attributed to Nanyue Mingzan [Nangaku Myôsan 南嶽明瓚 aka Lanzan 懶瓚; 8th c.] I 1. Serenely carefree, nothing to change; 兀然無事無改換 2. Carefree, what need for words? 無事何須論一段 3. Real mind doesn’t scatter, 眞心無散亂 4. So no need to stop worldly cares. 他事不須斷 5. The past is already past, 過去已過去 6. The future can’t be reckoned. 未來更莫算 7. Sitting serenely carefree, 兀然無事坐 8. Why would anyone pay a call? 何曾有人喚 9. Seeking to work on things outside – 向外覓功夫 10. It’s all foolishness! 總是癡頑漢 II 11. As for provisions, not one grain; 糧不畜一粒 12. If a meal is offered, just gobble it up. 逢飯但知嗎 13. Worldly folk full of needless care, 世間多事人 14. Always chasing, they never get it. 相趁渾不及 III 15. I neither desire heavenly realms, 我不樂生天 16. Nor want blessings in this world. 亦不愛福田 17. When hungry, eat; 饑來即喫飯 18. Tired, sleep. 睡來即臥瞑 19. Fools laugh at me, 愚人笑我 20. But the wise know its wisdom. 智乃知賢 21. It’s not being stupid – 不是癡鈍 22. It’s what we originally are. 本體如然 IV 23. When you have to go, go; 要去即去 24. When you have to stay, stay. 要住即住 25. Over shoulders, a ragged robe; 身被一破納 26. Below, bare feet. 脚着嬢生袴 27. Talking, talking, more and more – 多言復多語 28. Always leads to mistakes. 由来反相誤 29. If you want to save others, 若欲度衆生 30. Better work on saving yourself! 無過且自度 V 31. Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha; 莫謾求眞佛 32. True Buddha can’t be found. 眞佛不可見 33. Does marvelous nature and spirit 妙性及靈臺 34. Need tempering or refinement? 何曾受勲鍊 35. Mind is this mind carefree; 心是無事心 36. This face, the face at birth. 面是孃生面 37. Even if the kalpa-rock is moved, 劫石可移動 38. It alone remains unchanged. 箇中難改變 VI 39. Carefree is just that – 無事本無事 40. What need to read the words? 何須讀文字 41. With the root of delusive self gone, 削除人我本 42. All falls into place right where it is. 冥合箇中意 VII 43. Rather than get worn out over this and that, 種種勞筋骨 44. In the woods, serene, just take a nap. 不如林間睡兀兀 45. Raise your head and the sun’s already high; 舉頭見日高 46. Scrounge for food, then wolf it down. 乞飯從頭喰 VIII 47. Intent on getting good results, 將功用功 48. You merely fall deeper into ignorance. 展轉冥朦 49. Try to grasp, it can’t be gotten; 取則不得 50. Let go and there it is. 不取自通 IX 51. I have one “word”; 吾有一言 52. With it, all concepts and relations gone. 絕慮忘緣 53. Clever explanations cannot get at this, 巧說不得 54. Only mind conveys it. 只用心傳 X 55. Again this single “word,” 更有一語 56. Directly expressed without medium. 無過直與 57. Smaller than small, 細如毫末 58. Originally without direction or place. 本無方所 59. Originally whole and complete – 本自圓成 60. Not something strung together with effort. 不勞機杼 XI 61. Lost in worldly cares 世事悠悠 62. Is far from mountain stillness. 不如山丘 63. Where pines obscure sunlight, 青松弊日 64. Clear green streams flow on and on. 碧澗長流 65. Lying down beneath wisteria vines, 臥藤蘿下 66. Head pillowed on smooth stone. 塊石枕頭 67. With mountain clouds as curtain 山雲當幕 68. And night moon as a hook. 夜月為鉤 69. Not rising for the emperor, 不朝天子 70. Why envy royalty? 豈羨王侯 71. Not even birth-death concerns me – 生死無慮 72. What remains to grieve over? 更須何憂 XII 73. Moon reflected in water has no fixed form; 水月無形 74. That’s the way I always am. 我常只寧 75. Each and every thing as it is, 万法皆爾 76. Originally unborn. 本自無生 77. Sitting serenely carefree: 兀然無事坐 78. Spring comes, the grass grows green of itself. 春來草自青

While I can appreciate the 'wide-eyed' wonder, and seemingly paradoxical nature of the path, at the same time the majority of buddhadharma is not an 'irrational mysticism'. The Buddha's teachings are quite clear and explicit in the principles that are to become familiarized and cultivated on the path.

Is it really 'abstruse and mysterious'? When it comes to the intent and meaning of the Buddha's teachings it's really quite simple, but due to the propensities of habits, this isn't obvious: so in our ignorance we can't 'wrap our heads' around the message in Buddha's teachings. I'm not just referring to the thought realm, but sensory experiences in general. Vacchagotta was a confused wanderer, who features in several suttas, where he comes to the Buddha to ask questions. In that particular discourse, he was unable to wrap his head around the meaning of Buddha's teachings, and couldn't comprehend the Buddha's teachings outside a framework that infers a truly existent entity in sensory experience. There's always a certain context for each of Buddha's discourses, and they differ according to each circumstances, so keep this in mind when reading the tripitaka. Just experiencing the arising and passing of the five aggregates or the 12 sense spheres, unmediated, and without a reference to a subjective entity that perceives or cognizes experience; definitely not a 'merging' nor a 'oneness' of the subjective and objective spheres, but 'seeing' directly that there was never a separate subject for their to be a separation with objects; some 'thing' added due to sheer propensities of habit stemming from ignorance. Just seeing, just thinking, just hearing, etc. As the Buddha expounds in the Sabba Sutta [http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn35/sn35.023.than.html]: "Monks, I will teach you the All. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak." "As you say, lord," the monks responded. The Blessed One said, "What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. [1] Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." ... Obviously, having direct insight into the meaning of buddhadharma, is entirely different from just having an intellectual understanding of the principles which informs its practice.

"Of all those things that from a cause arise, Tathagata the cause thereof has told; And how they cease to be, that too he tells, This is the doctrine of the Great Recluse." ~ Elder Assaji

It only seems 'abstruse and mysterious' because in our confusion we normally misapprehend an entity in sensory experience. I think this particular sutta, where Buddha addresses Vacchagotta's questions on 'self', can be considered a provisional sutta. The implications of Buddha's insight into the 3 seals (anicca, dukkha, anatta) are clearly expressed in these two suttas: http://measurelessmind.ca/anattasanna.html The “seer,” “seen,” and “seeing” are all empty and insubstantial. The eye faculty, visible form, and visual consciousness are all interdependent aspects of the same experience. You can’t peel one away and still have a sensory experience — there is no separation. AN 4.24 Kāḷakārāma Sutta: Thus, monks, the Tathāgata does not conceive an [object] seen when seeing what is to be seen. He does not conceive an unseen. He does not conceive a to-be-seen. He does not conceive a seer. He does not conceive an [object] heard when hearing what is to be heard. He does not conceive an unheard. He does not conceive a to-be-heard. He does not conceive a hearer. He does not conceive an [object] sensed when sensing what is to be sensed. He does not conceive an unsensed. He does not conceive a to-be-sensed. He does not conceive a senser. He does not conceive an [object] known when knowing what is to be known. He does not conceive an unknown. He does not conceive a to-be-known. He does not conceive a knower. Sensory consciousness can’t be isolated as separate and independent. Nor can any of these other interdependent phenomena. Even the designations that we apply to these various phenomena are entirely conventional, dependent designations. But this doesn’t mean that we should now interpret our experience as being some sort of cosmic oneness or unity consciousness or whatever one may want to call it. That's just another empty, dependent label isn’t it? The whole point of this analysis is to see the emptiness of all referents, and thereby stop constructing and defining a “self.” ... http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.1.10.than.html "Then, Bāhiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bāhiya, there is no you in connection with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."[2]

Diamond Sutra Explained by Nan Huaijin, tr. by Hue En; pg. 293-295: Perceiving Is Not-Seeing "Subhuti, if a person says the Buddha speaks of the perception of self, person, being and life, what do you think? Does this person understand the meaning of what I say?" The Buddha starts off asking Subhuti a supposition question. Is it correct to say that the Buddha speaks of perception of self, person, being and life. Up to now the Buddha had spoken in terms of the four "notions." Here there is a slight deviation in that the Buddha speaks of four perceptions. "Notion" has to do with phenomenal appearance; whereas, "perception" has to do with one's thoughts, perspectives and understanding. Perception is very much what we today would call one's perspective. In Ch'an, it is called one's ground of perception. It's not with one's eyes that one perceives the Tao. The Surangama Sutra has some famous lines about this: When one sees the seer, This seeing is not-seeing. Seeing must still go beyond seeing, For seeing cannot reach it. Sometimes the wording in these sutras is enough to make you crazy! The first "see" is that which we do with or eyes; it is our mind and eyes working together to see. The second "see" is perceiving the Tao. In other words, the act of seeing and that which is seen; the second is that which can see. When we engage in the act of seeing, this is in the realm of phenomena. If we turn this around to look inward, one can perceive one's mind and original nature. This is not engaging in the act of seeing. It is not a phenomenon which the eyes can see, nor is it an alambana. Those are not Tao. "When one sees the seer," one turns around and perceives the Tao. "This seeing is not-seeing." This seeing is not the act of seeing phenomena. It is perceiving the Tao. So, of course, "this seeing is not-seeing." Could it be, though, that the seeing which perceives the Tao has an alambana? "Seeing must still go beyond seeing." When one's eyes are not-seeing, ears are not-hearing and all is empty, if one says I have perceived the Tao, there is still an object which is perceived. This must be thrown out. The "emptiness" must still be emptied. "For seeing cannot reach it." The real perceiving of the mind and original nature is not that which can be seen with the eyes; nor is it that which the mind can perceive. It is that which can perceive. We've gone in a large circle with this "seeing." It is very difficult to understand. It is not as simple as seeing the mountains not as mountains, seeing the water not as water. That's like the sound a frog makes when it jumps into a well. When there is no seer nor seen, when the mountains, the earth, all the phenomena in the universe and even emptiness have been smashed to fine powder, when all is level and deep and when the four notions have nothing on which to stand, then we can talk about Ch'an. There is a shadow of a perception of the nature of mind. Mind you, only just a shadow. The Surangama Sutra also has some other lines which are also very important when talking about this. "Understanding and perceiving rely on knowing, this is originally ignorance. Understanding and perceiving without perception, this is nirvana." Understanding and perceiving are terms used a lot in the later periods of Buddhism in China. Understanding is knowing and it refers to knowing and understanding the theory of Buddhist sutras. Perception is having actual experiences through meditation and cultivation of the phenomena and alambana of which are spoken in the sutras. For example, if one is meditating and everything becomes empty but one is still aware of sitting there in total peace, this is understanding and perceiving. This peace and purity still isn't correct, "understanding and perceiving rely on knowing, this is originally ignorance." To have a peace and purity implies that there is the strength of unpeaceful and impure hidden within. This is tantamount to affliction, and so it is said that "understanding and perceiving rely on knowing, this is originally ignorance." Only when, "understanding and perceiving without perception," finally to really perceive emptiness, "this is nirvana." This is the edge of perception. Knowing Is Originally Ignorance In the past, there have been some great masters who have practiced Ch'an through reading sutras and have had awakenings. Practicing Ch'an doesn't necessarily mean one only meditates or holds a koan or hua tou in mind. During the Sung Dynasty at Rui Lu Temple in Wezhou there was a famous Ch'an master named Yu-an. Every day he would read sutras and recite the name of the Buddha. Once, when he came upon the lines just mentioned, his heart started pounding. He suddenly saw it through different eyes and then changed the punctuation slightly so it read, "Understanding and perceiving rely. Knowing, this is originally ignorance. Understanding and perceiving without meaning (are not). Perception, this is nirvana." Upon doing this, he had a Great Awakening. From then on, he called himself the "Surangama Destroyer" because, by breaking apart the sutra's words, he suddenly became enlightened. "Understanding and perceiving rely." Having understanding, having perception, having calm purity are all feelings. "Knowing, this is originally ignorance." This "knowing" to begin with, is actually ignorance and affliction. "Understanding and perceiving without meaning (are not)." All is empty; theory is empty, thoughts are empty, emptiness is empty. "Perception, this is nirvana." Once one perceives this, one has awakened. This is that to which the master awakened when he broke apart the original sentence.

This is a collection of doha's and excerpts from meditation manuals/articles that I particularly like. Keep in mind, kun gzhi rnam par shes pa/alayavijnana/all-basis consciousness, in Mahamudra, is distinguished from the kun gzhi/alaya/all-basis, in that the former is an impure afflicted consciousness. Kun gzhi/alaya is individual or personal, not universal or shared, yet not a 'oneness' nor a 'manyness', and is the inseparability of clarity and emptiness of the [individual's] mind. What's being referred to as mind, in these dohas and meditation instructions, is none other than the kun gzhi/alaya. http://www.hhthesakyatrizin.org/pdfs/melody_3.pdf Virupa's Treasury of Doha's Homage to Sri Vajrasattva Homage to Blessed Nairatma E ma ho! The mahamudra is completely pure by nature like space. Since the reality of the demonstrated object does not exist, it cannot be expressed through the medium of conventional words, the essence without proliferation by nature is free from all dependent phenomena, cannot be investigated or examined, free from demonstrative examples, also not abiding in freedom from examples, beyond the domain of the mind, not eternal, not annihilated, not samsara or nirvana, not apparent, not empty, not real, not unreal, not non-arising, not the original dharmata, and also not beyond mind, also not non-being because being and non-being cannot be expressed with the mind, not connected with any dualistic phenomena, originally homogenous. Even the explanation of the activities of defining the essence, equivalent with the fallacy of those false horns of a rabbit being sharp or dull, all phenomena are not different from that characterization. The relative phenomena of the world however they appear are without essence, mere names, mere sounds, mere designations, not the slightest bit of difference between names and meanings exists, innate from the beginning, not to be sought elsewhere, the nature of the mind, without a name, mahamudra free from proliferation, it is equivalent with the nature of space, without a name from the beginning, non-arisen by nature, free from the proliferation of signs, all-pervading, unmoving and unchanging like space, empty throughout all time and always selfless, not the characteristic of concept, like a mirage of a river, not bound, not liberated, having never moved from the original state. All sentient beings are emanations of mahamudra, the essence of those emanations is the forever non-arising dharmadhatu, also all characteristics of dualistic appearances, happiness, suffering and so on, are the play of mahamudra, the original dharmata. Because there is no truth and nothing on which to rely in play itself, reality never transcends the seal of emptiness. Some are completely tortured with empowerment rites, some always count their rosary saying hum phat! some consume shit, piss, blood, semen and meat, some meditate the yoga of nadi and vayu, but all are deluded. E ma ho! Having been connected with a sublime Guru, one should realize as follows: because there is some kind of delusion, true realization does not exist, free from any extremes of partiality or bias since there is nothing to realize and no realization, the homogenous original state is neither with nor without [extremes]. If one realizes in this way there is definitely no-one else to ask. Since diversity appears as the dharmakaya, a mind that accepts and rejects never arises. There is nothing to meditate or not meditate, and nothing is covered with characteristics, one should never depend on apparent and non-apparent objects, a mind with action and agent does not exist, free from all objects, a mind with hope and fear does not exist, turned away from all attachments, if one realizes the original reality shown by the Guru, the diversity of recollection and awareness automatically dissolves into the dharmadhatu, consciousness does not remain on an object, since one is free from all attachment and grasping, all phenomena are liberated in the uncontrived original state. If one is not attached to anything, free from the stain of pride and so on, devoted, totally connected with the sublime ones, and free from mental activity of any kind, there is no doubt one will be immaculate, because one is purified of a knower and objects of knowledge, the direct perception of dharmata will arise. If one has not realized original mahamudra, since one is always attached to everything because of the power of dualistic grasping, thoughts arise in the mind like the stream of the variety of blurred vision, not abiding in the non-erroneous ultimate, one cycles and wanders in samsara. Because of attachment and grasping to all the fame and offerings, and the arising of great hearing, reflection, and intellectual comprehension, good experience, siddhis, blessings, and the signs of power, the contrived path is ultimately a stain, the wise do not entrust their minds to them. If one is interested in those things and falls into the two extremes, because it is the root of cycling in the cycle of samsara, look, what is the mountain of the mind that is the root of everything? If one becomes free from the mind because it is not seen when looking, liberation is certain. Since the mind does not indicate “The dharmadhatu is this”, both meditation and an object of meditation do not exist in that, rest in the undistracted state without any concepts of existence and non-existence. If one intellectualizes emptiness, non-arising, beyond mind, freedom from extremes and so on in any way, not dwelling in actual reality, one will be very distracted. Rest in a relaxed state disregarding empty or not empty. Letting go in the state of independence without meditating or not-meditating, be just like a zombie, without a mind that accepts or rejects. If one dwells in my state through knowing reality as it is, the traces of the characteristics of dualistic appearances will be quickly destroyed. If one is distracted by characteristics without dwelling in the state of realization, one will not be able to avert the traces of the characteristics of dualistic appearances, though it seems a particle is in the eye of one with ophthalmia, the ophthalmic appearance cannot be repaired without curing the eye disease. Intellectualizing reality, attachment to meditation experience, cultivating and meditating on the actual true state are causes of deviation. Because attachment and aversion arose towards conducive conditions, one is bound. All negative disharmonious conditions are sublime siddhis, since negative conditions intensify the yogin’s experience, since one understands the true state of negative conditions without avoiding them, train in them, maintain that, and practice until coming to the conclusion of experience and realization, just as a good horse is encouraged by a quirt. If yogis with good experience lack the companion of conduct, as that is not possessed, it is like people without feet. Train in the actual ultimate real state free from attachment, giving up nothing, accomplishing nothing, attached to nothing, purifying nothing, rejecting nothing, the best of the very best behavior is whatever feels good to one’s body. Though relatively, the Buddhas have the great confidence of a dead body, they diligently do whatever possible without abandoning the great mass of sentient beings. Though fearless, without fearful thoughts towards samsara, refrain from even the slightest wrong action. Though phenomena are realized to be empty like space, free from an origin, give up attachment and aversion having destroyed all strong attachment. Though one realizes the meaning of the great transparent Dharmata free from extremes, while one has not attained stability keep one’s experience and realization secret from others. Though one realizes that ultimately both self and other do not exist, relatively, think on the great benefit of migrating beings. Though one has the confidence that does not depend on the guidance of others, place the very kind Guru on the crown of one’s head. The one with attachment and grasping will debate everyone, contrary conduct not in conformity with tradition is a deviation. Since there is no object of perception and no perceiver, difference is liberated in its own state. Since the experiencer is destroyed, one is free from all effort and practice. Since the result to attain is destroyed, one is liberated from all hope and fear. Having totally uprooted I and mine, one is victorious in the war with Mara. Since realism is destroyed in its own state, one is liberated from samsara and nirvana. Since Rigpa is pure in the basis, it is called “Perfect Buddhahood.” Since phenomena and mind are exhausted in the state of exhaustion, therefore it is explained as “nirvana”, uncontrived, unchanging, totally liberated from everything to be given up or to attain. E ma ho! That great profound term “mahamudra”, whatever its basis of designation is, also has the label “empty”; as moments are empty by nature, who realizes selflessness? There is no realizer, just a name, a term, a label. Also that is not perfect, a projection of disciples*, also in disciples there is no self, similar with illusions and emanations “Mahamudra” is a mental imputation of the childish. “Delusion” and “non-delusion” are mere names, mere labels, who is the person to feel or be aware of delusion? If not even an iota of the result, nirvana, exists, and is not perceived, “liberation and non-liberation” is an adventitious reification, Nothing exists in peaceful and pure space, so what is the path of liberation? “Ultimate and relative” are also just emphatic labels, but the two truths don’t exist in the dharmadhatu, the dharmadhatu does not exist. The Treasury of Dohas composed by the lord of Yogis, Virupa, is complete. ( Doha: Song of Realization). Reproduced by kind permission of Lama Tseten Migmar *"disciples" are a reference to shravakas i.e. Hinayana.

"...In the early 500s in the south, a canon of Taoist scriptures was formulated, an imitation of Buddhist sutras which came close to plagiarism (Ofuchi, 1979 :267)". - http://books.google.com/books?id=2HS1DOZ35EgC&pg=PA280&dq=Taoism+copy+of+buddhism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=THYeUay1BLOt0AH2o4DoDQ&ved=0CF4Q6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=Taoism%20copy%20of%20buddhism&f=false

Read Russell Kirkland's Taoism: The Enduring Tradition: http://books.google.com/books?id=o9Op-hy1-5QC&source=gbs_navlinks_s

This is unequivocally false.

Audio talks on shamatha-vipashyana as practiced in Gelug [sutra] Mahamudra by a graduate of the Masters Program at Lama Tzong Khapa Institute: http://www.glensvensson.org/gelug-mahamudra.html

http://samyukta-agama.blogspot.tw/ - Translation of Samyukta Agama discourses by Bhikkhu Analayo

http://84000.co/ - translations of texts from the Tibetan Kangyur.

Downloadable files in English & Korean w/ table of contents of each volume - http://www.acmuller.net/kor-bud/collected_works.html Alternate source w/ resources on Korean Buddhism - http://web.international.ucla.edu/buddhist/resources/article.asp

http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/search/label/Zen%20Master%20Sheng-yen Ch'an Newsletter - No. 52 February 1986 Four Views of Ch'an (Lecture given by Master Sheng-Yen at the Great Taoist Center in Washington, D.C., November 22, 1985) Let me begin with a koan. In the T'ang dynasty there was a Ch'an patriarch named Yao-shan Wei-yen. A disciple once asked him, "Before Bodhidharma came to China, was there Ch'an in China?" The Master replied, "Ch'an originally existed in China." "In that case," the disciple continued, "Why did Bodhidharma come to China?" The Master said, "It is precisely because there was Ch'an in China that Bodhidharma came to China." So you see I've come to Washington today because there is Ch'an in Washington. I've come here because all of you know about Ch'an. Those of you who know something about Ch'an, please raise your hands... Those of you who didn't raise your hands probably know more than those who did! Tonight I will talk about Ch'an from four points of view. These topics should help you to raise some questions about Ch'an: the theory of Ch'an, the experience of Ch'an, the goal of Ch'an, and the training and practice of Ch'an. 1. There is really no theory in Ch'an. If we theorize about Ch'an -- that is not Ch'an. Ch'an cannot be understood by any logical reasoning. It can't be explained in words. Nevertheless, I will use some theoretical description in my talk. There are two basic concepts associated with Ch'an. One is causes and conditions. The other is emptiness. These two concepts are linked; they cannot be separated. When we talk about causes and conditions and emptiness, we are really talking about the nature of existence, which is temporary and impermanent. All phenomena arise because of the coming together of the proper causes and conditions. All phenomena perish because of change in the causes and conditions. Chinese Taoism and Confucianism use a text called the "I Ching." "I" means change. This is continual, constant change. It is called "arising." Constant arising means that causes and conditions change continually -- all phenomena are ever-changing. Ordinary sentient beings see things as arising and perishing. In the "I Ching" there is no perishing, only constant arising. Seeing something disappear, you miss seeing something else arise. In the Buddhist view, when causes and conditions change, phenomena arise. But because this arising is rooted in temporary, constantly changing causes and conditions, the phenomena which arise can be nothing more than temporary themselves. Because they only have temporary existence, they are said to have no real existence. Hence these phenomena are called empty. Emptiness only means that there is no unchanging eternal existence; it doesn't mean that nothing exists at all. All phenomena and existence can arise only because they are empty. It is because they are empty that there is nothing permanent or unchanging about them. If things never changed, there would be no arising. If nothing changed in our present configuration, it would mean that this lecture would go on indefinitely. But when this talk ends, the configuration changes. If everything were unchanging and solid, if there were no emptiness, then this lecture would go on forever. It is because of the present situation -- this particular configuration of constantly changing causes and conditions -- that we are all gathered in this room. Therefore when we ask about Ch'an, we find that Ch'an is just a word, a bit of terminology. Very few people can say what it is. For over a thousand years masters and disciples in the Ch'an tradition have been asking questions such as, "What was it that Bodhidharma brought to China?" Many people have sought the answers to these questions. The masters never gave direct answers. Some simply ignored the questions. If they didn't ignore the question, they only would give very simple answers. A T'ang dynasty master, Chao-chou once had a disciple who asked him, "Master, what are we really learning here?" Chao-chou said, "All. right, you can now go and have a cup of tea." Another disciple came and said that he had had a certain experience the day before, and he wanted to know it his experience was really Ch'an. Chao-chou said, "All right, you can have a cup of tea now." A third disciple was quite puzzled after he heard this exchange. He asked, "Master, you had two disciples ask you entirely different questions, and you simply told them to have a cup of tea. What did you mean by this?" The Master replied, "You can also have a cup of tea." There is another story along the same lines involving Chao-chou. Two disciples were arguing. One said, "The Master said that men have Buddha nature, but dogs and cats don't." The other disciple said, "That's impossible, the Master could not have said anything like that." They both went to see Chao-chou. One said, "Master, you couldn't possibly have said anything like that." And the Master said, "You're right." But the other disciple said, "I'm positive that is what you said." And the Master said, "You re right." A third person, an attendant said, "But Master, only one of them can be right." And the Master said, "You're right." These stories sound like meaningless exchanges, like nonsense, but the underlying implication is that existence or non-existence, or ideas of right or wrong, are things which only live in your own mind, your personal experience, your knowledge. These things can't be Ch'an. 2. The experience of Ch'an must be personal and direct. It cannot come from education or be arrived at by logical reasoning. In a retreat I will often try to help a student get an experience of Ch'an by telling him to bring himself to the state that existed before he was born. After birth, we begin to acquire experience, and we are trying to look beyond what we have learned. Before your life began, who were you? What was your name? How would you answer these questions? There is a story of a Ch'an Master who told his disciple to wash charcoal until it was clean. The disciple complained that it was simply impossible. A somewhat dimwitted disciple took the charcoal and began to wash it. He didn't have a thought in his mind other than that his Master had told him to wash the charcoal. So he simply washed the charcoal. One day he asked the Master why the charcoal was still not white. The Master said, "Isn't it already white?" The disciple took another look at it and said, "Indeed it is white; it has always been white." When most of us look at charcoal, we see black, but the Master and disciple saw it as white. In Ch'an we say that training and practice will make our discriminations disappear. These thoughts and feelings of liking or disliking come from our experience. If you can go back to the state before you were born, then you arrive at the point where discriminations do not exist. It no longer matters whether something is black or white. What is important is that your mind is free from discrimination and conceptualization. In China between the fourth and sixth centuries, there was a period called the Northern and Southern Dynasties. At that time a famous Taoist, T'ao Hung-ching lived in the mountains. He was a well-known scholar, and the emperor had great respect for him, and wanted him to serve as his minister. But T'ao declined. The emperor asked him what it was in the mountains that attracted him so much that he preferred his hermitage to the glories of the court. T'ao wrote an answer to the emperor in the a four-line poem: You ask me what I find in the mountains, I say: white clouds are in the mountains, This I alone can enjoy, It is not something I can offer you. The emperor read the poem and realized there was something that made no sense: white clouds can be seen anywhere, not just in the mountains. But the point is that the white clouds that T'ao Hung-ching saw were quite different from the ones the emperor could see. This is experience. A practitioner's experience of the Tao is quite different from that of a non-practitioner. There was a famous monk, Han Shan, who was often asked, "What do you have?" He would say that he had everything: "The white clouds in the sky serve as my blanket, the earth is my bed, the mountains, my pillow. And the four seas are not big enough for a bath or a somersault." That was his experience: oneness with nature. There was no separation between him and the world. But most people thought that he had nothing. His shoes were made from the bark of a tree; his pants, from the leaves of a tree. It's only after you've put down everything that you've acquired since the time you were born, that a Ch'an experience can manifest. When I teach my students how to practice Ch'an, I tell them to first separate their thoughts into three categories: the past, the present, and the future. Then I tell them to discard the thoughts of the past, then the thoughts of the future. Only thoughts of the present moment are left. The next step is to let go of the present moment, because there is no such thing as the present moment. It is only a bridge between the past and the future. When you let go of the present moment, the Ch'an experience can manifest, but only at the most elementary level. One question that might occur to you is: we have to discard our experiences until we reach the state we were in before we were born, so does this mean that a new born baby is closest to Ch'an? No, a new born baby does not know about Ch'an because a baby's mental faculties are hardly developed, and he is not in control of them. The control of mental functioning is necessary. When you have this control, then you can let go of knowledge and reasoning. Then there is a possibility that the Ch'an experience can manifest. If you knock someone into unconsciousness, is this like Ch'an? This is nonsense. If you know nothing of the past or future, and your mind is a blank, that is also not Ch'an. A mind that is blank in this way is a very tired mind. Only a very clear, alert mind can experience Ch'an. I can only describe the experience of Ch'an by using an analogy. Consider the surface of water and consider a mirror. The surface of water will move at the slightest touch, but a mirror is unmoving. A mirror can be obscured by dust, but remove the dust and it will reflect clearly. If water is agitated, it will not be able to reflect an image, only a distortion of the image. The movement in water is like the movement in our minds. Our minds move because of the knowledge we have and the experience we have acquired. Because of these things, we are constantly making judgments. Just as moving water cannot reflect well, so a moving mind cannot see clearly -- what we see or think we see is not real. For example, there are about fifty people in the audience. You all have different backgrounds, different experiences, and different levels of education. Because of these differences, each of you will hear the same thing a little differently. Each of you judges this lecture in your own way. It may be one lecture, but it could also be fifty different lectures. That is not Ch'an. If it were, when one person spoke, it would be as if there were one person listening. And if that were the case, there would be no need for me to speak, because you would know what I was going to say before I said it. This is illustrated by a story from the early days of the Ch'an sect. The emperor at the time asked a certain Ch'an Master to give a discourse. To make ready for the occasion, the emperor commanded his workmen to build an elaborate platform from which the Master would speak. When the time arrived, the Master mounted the platform, sat down, and then quickly left. The emperor was quite surprised. The Master said, "I've said everything I wanted to Say." The unspoken Dharma and only the unspoken Dharma is the highest Dharma. Whatever can be said or described is not the real Dharma. Chan Masters have been talking about this for many, many years. When we speak about reflection in water and in a mirror, note that a mirror that is perfectly clean will reflect better than water that is stable and unmoving. However, the Sixth Patriarch was opposed to using the analogy of the mirror. He pointed out that if there were a mirror, there would be a mind, and this would not be Ch'an. Nonetheless, we will use the mirror to a make a point. Later, we will throw out the mirror. What is reflected by a mirror is outside the mirror. If a person is in a mirror-like state, everything that is reflected is on the outside. For such a person, there is no self involved. What he sees and feels is only the existence of phenomena -- when there is no self, there is no experience of discrimination, of liking or disliking. This is not the ultimate state, because if you have nothing but awareness of the environment and there is no self apparent, there must still be a self to be aware of the environment. Someone who is in this state is certainly in a unified state, because there seems to be no self and only the environment seems to exist. This is called the state of "one mind," but still it is not Ch'an. There must be "no mind' if it is to be Ch'an. A true Ch'an state should not be compared to an all-reflecting mirror. All things exists without the mirror. In this state everything is seen very clearly, but there is no concept of outside or inside, existing or not existing, having or not having. 3. What is the good of this kind of experience? This leads us to the third section, the goal of Ch'an practice. There are so many benefits to Ch'an practice -- for myself and many more for others. These benefits can be seen on three levels: First, there is physical benefit, then mental balance and good mental health, and last, the potential to become enlightened -- the spiritual benefit. By helping a practitioner attain a more stable mind, Ch'an practice can improve mental health. And the reason for an unhealthy body is really psychological imbalance. Ch'an practice can strengthen mental power and capacity. Even with physical sickness, a practitioner will have a positive attitude and will not be hindered from doing what he needs to do. Good mental health is a fundamental aim of the practice, but in the beginning stages, physical strength is acquired through physical sitting. Practicing in this way helps maintain and focus the flow of energy known as "ch'i." Taoism and Yoga share this aspect of practice. The highest benefit of practice is enlightenment, the genuine Ch'an experience. What good is this? I can only say this: before enlightenment, there are things that one needs and there are things that one would rather do without, there are things that are liked and things that are disliked. After enlightenment, there is no such thing as that which I need or don't need, what I like or don't like. Do you understand? That's why I said that all of you already know Ch'an. You see, before we are enlightened, we have many vexations, and there are many things that we have to do; there are many things that we don't want to do. We may seek and attain enlightenment, but once we have experienced it, there is no longer any such thing as enlightenment. At this point there is nothing that we have to do; there's nothing that we don't have to do. Lin-chi Yi-hsuan, a famous Ch'an Master, was studying with his Master when he got enlightened, but his Master was not immediately aware of Lin-chi's enlightenment. One day the Master was making his rounds and checking to see that all of his students were practicing hard. He came upon Lin-chi lying on his mat, fast asleep. The Master woke him with his staff, and asked, "How can you be so lazy, when everyone around you is practicing diligently?" Lin-chi just looked up at his Master, picked up his blanket and cushion, and went to lie down in another place. The Master watched Lin-chi move, and asked, "What are you doing now?" Lin-chi Yi-hsuan answered, "What else is there for me to do?" When the Master heard this, he walked over to a disciple who was practicing particularly hard. He took his staff, gave him several stiff blows, and said, "There's someone over there who's practicing very hard, what are you doing here, sleeping like this?" The Master's eldest disciple said to himself, "This old Master has really gone crazy." From that point on Lin-chi didn't remain sleeping -- he traveled spreading the Dharma. The lineage that evolved from him is called the Lin Chi sect; in Japanese it is known as the Rinzai sect. The story of Lin-chi shows that after enlightenment, there is nothing, no practice or striving, that is needed for oneself. There are only other sentient beings to work for and to help. 4. The training and practice of Ch'an can be divided into three levels. First, to move from a scattered to a concentrated mind. Second, to move from a concentrated mind to one-mind. Finally, to let go of even one-mind, and reach no-mind. The scattered mind is easy to see. We can all be aware of this state where thoughts come and go in a haphazard manner. Let's try an experiment. Everyone raise your index finger and look at it. Just look, and have no thoughts. Do this in a relaxed manner. We did that for thirty seconds. Were you able to do it with no thoughts? If you couldn't do it, you had a scattered mind. When we do things with a scattered mind, we are not using our fullest capacity. A Ch'an Master once told his disciples: Chan practice is very easy. When you eat, just eat; when you sleep, just sleep; when you walk, just walk." One disciple said, "I know how to eat, sleep, and walk. Everybody knows that, so is everybody practicing Ch'an?" The Master said, "That's not true: when you eat, your mind is not on eating; when you sleep your mind is either filled with dreams or lost in a muddled state of blankness; when you walk, you're just daydreaming." Once in our Center in New York, we hired a carpenter to do some work for us. He was nailing a nail into a wall, when he looked out the window, and saw a pretty woman passing by. He hit his finger, and twisted the nail. He had to start all over again. What was he doing with his mind? It certainly wasn't on his work. Most of us function like this. We must use special methods to bring our scattered minds into a concentrated state. Do as the Master said: when you eat, eat; when you sleep; sleep; when you walk, walk. When you practice, keep your mind in a concentrated state. Then if you hear a sound, visualize or feel something -- whatever you do, you will be doing just that and nothing else. This is a concentrated mind. When you expand this state further, you will eventually get to the point where the separation between self and environment disappears -- there is no distinction between you and the world. If you are repeating a mantra, then you and the mantra become one. There are many levels to this state. At the elementary level you and your method of practice become one. A deeper state is when you feel that whatever your senses encounter, what you see and hear, is the same as yourself. At this point there is no distinction between what you see and what you hear. The sense organs no longer have separate functions. This is an intermediate level. Deeper still is the state where you sense an unlimited universe within yourself. Still this is not the experience of Ch 'an. From here we must use the methods of Ch'an -- the gung-an (koan) and the hua-t'ou -- to break apart the state of one-mind. In this way we can reach enlightenment, we can reach Ch'an.

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http://www.westernchanfellowship.org/lib/wcf////what-is-chan/ What Is Chan? By Chan Master Sheng Yen I wish to start by telling you that Chan is not the same as knowledge, yet knowledge is not completely apart from Chan. Chan is not just religion, yet the achievements of religion can be reached through Chan. Chan is not philosophy, yet philosophy can in no way exceed the scope of Chan. Chan is not science, yet the spirit of emphasising reality and experience is also required in Chan. Therefore, please do not try to explore the content of Chan motivated by mere curiosity, for Chan is not something new brought here [to the USA] by Orientals; Chan is present everywhere, in space without limit and time without end. However before the Buddhism of the East was propagated in the western world, the people of the West never knew of the existence of Chan. The Chan taught by Orientals in the West is not, in fact, the real Chan. It is the method to realise Chan. Chan was first discovered by a prince named Siddhartha Gautama (called Shakyamuni after his enlightenment), who was born in India about 2500 years ago. After he became enlightened and was called a Buddha, he taught us the method to know Chan. This method was transmitted from India to China, and then to Japan. In India it was called dhyana, which is pronounced 'Chan' in Chinese, and 'Zen' in Japanese. Actually, all three are identical. Chan has universal and eternal existence. It has no need of any teacher to transmit it; what is transmitted by teachers is just the method by which one can personally experience this Chan. Some people mistakenly understand Chan to be some kind of mysterious experience; others think that one can attain supernatural powers through the experience of Chan. Of course, the process of practising Chan meditation may cause various kinds of strange occurrences on the level of mental and physical sensation; and also, through the practice of unifying body and mind, one may be able to attain the mental power to control or alter external things. But such phenomena, which are looked upon as mysteries of religion, are not the aim of Chan practice, because they can only satisfy one's curiosity or megalomania, and cannot solve the actual problems of peoples lives. Chan starts from the root of the problem. It does not start with the idea of conquering the external social and material environments, but starts with gaining thorough knowledge of one's own self. The moment you know what your self is, this 'I' that you now take to be yourself will simultaneously disappear. We call this new knowledge of the notion of self 'enlightenment' or 'seeing ones basic nature'. This is the beginning of helping you to thoroughly solve real problems. In the end, you will discover that you the individual, together with the whole of existence, are but one totality which cannot be divided. Because you yourself have imperfections, you therefore feel the environment is imperfect. It is like a mirror with an uneven surface, the images reflected in it are also distorted. Or, it is like the surface of water disturbed by ripples, the moon reflected in it is irregular and unsettled. If the surface of the mirror is clear and smooth, or if the air on the surface of the water is still and the ripples calmed, then the reflection in the mirror and the moon in the water will be clear and exact. Therefore, from the point of view of Chan, the major cause of the pain and misfortune suffered by humanity is not the treacherous environment of the world in which we live, nor the dreadful society of humankind, but the fact that we have never been able to recognise our basic nature. So the method of Chan is not to direct us to evade reality, nor to shut our eyes like the African ostrich when enemies come, and bury our heads in the sand, thinking all problems are solved. Chan is not a self-hypnotising idealism. By the practise of Chan one can eliminate the 'I'; not only the selfish, small 'I', but also the large 'I', which in philosophy is called 'Truth' or 'the Essence'. Only then is there absolute freedom. Thus an accomplished Chan practitioner never feels that any responsibility is a burden, nor does he feel the pressure that the conditions of life exert on people. He only feels that he is perpetually bringing the vitality of life into full activity. This is the expression of absolute freedom. Therefore the life of Chan is inevitably normal and positive, happy and open. The reason for this is that the practise of Chan will continually provide you with a means to excavate your precious mine of wisdom. The deeper the excavation, the higher the wisdom that is attained, until eventually you obtain all the wisdom of the entire universe. At that time, there is not a single thing in all of time and space that is not contained within the scope of your wisdom. At that stage wisdom becomes absolute; and since it is absolute, the term wisdom serves no further purpose. To be sure, at that stage the 'I' that motivated you to pursue such things as fame, wealth and power, or to escape from suffering and danger, has completely disappeared. What is more, even the wisdom which eliminated your 'I' becomes an unnecessary concept to you. Of course, from the viewpoint of sudden enlightenment it is very easy for a Chan practitioner to reach this stage; nevertheless before reaching the gate of sudden enlightenment one must exert a great deal of effort on the journey. Otherwise the methods of Chan would be useless. The Three Stages of Chan Meditation At present [1977], the methods of meditation that I am teaching in the United States are divided into three stages. Stage 1: To Balance the Development of Body and Mind in order to Attain Mental and Physical Health With regard to the body, we stress the demonstration and correction of the postures of walking, standing, sitting and reclining. At the same time we teach various methods of physical exercise for walking, standing, sitting and reclining. They are unique exercise methods combining Indian Hatha Yoga and Chinese Tao-yin, and can bring physical health as well as results in meditation. Thus, one who practises Chan and has obtained good results will definitely have a strong body capable of enduring hardship. For the mind we emphasise the elimination of impatience, suspicion, anxiety, fear and frustration, so as to establish a state of self-confidence, determination, optimism, peace and stability. A good student, after five or ten lessons here, will reach the first stage and be able to obtain results in the above two areas. One of our student's reports stated: "This kind of Chan class is especially good for someone like myself who, by profession or habit, has been used to having the brain functioning just about every minute of the day. I often find this Chan sitting very helpful as rest or relief. So even for no greater purpose, this Chan class has been very useful and should be highly recommended." [from Chan Magazine Vol.1; No.1] In the first lesson of each class, I always ask each of the students individually his or her purpose in learning Chan whether he or she hoped to benefit the body, or sought help for the mind. The answers show that the latter were in the majority. This indicates that people living in American society today, under the strain and pressure of the present environment, suffer excessive tension, and many have lost their mental balance. Some are so severely tense that they have to consult a psychiatrist. Among those who come to learn Chan, I have one woman student, an outstanding lecturer in a well-known university, who asked me at the first meeting if I could help to relieve her from tense and uneasy moods. I told her that for a Chan practitioner this is a very simple matter. After five lessons she felt that Chan was a great blessing to her life. The method of the first stage is very simple. Mainly it requires you to relax all the muscles and nerves of your entire body, and concentrate your attention on the method you have just learned. Because the tension of your muscles and nerves affects the activity of the brain, the key is therefore to reduce the burden on your brain. When your wandering thoughts and illusions decrease, your brain will gradually get a little rest. As its need of blood is reduced, more blood will circulate through the entire body. Meanwhile, because of the relaxation of the brain, all the muscles also relax; thus your blood vessels expand, you feel comfortable all over, your spirit feels fresh and alert, and your mental responses are naturally lighter and more lively. If one's object of study is just to acquire physical and mental balance, and not to study meditation proper, then one will probably feel that the completion of the first stage is enough; but many students are not content with this, and indeed, some from the outset are looking for the goal of the second stage. Stage 2: From the Sense of the Small 'I' The first stage only helps to bring concentration to your confused mind; but when you practise concentration, other scattered thoughts continue to appear in your mind - sometimes many, sometimes a few. The concept of your purpose in practising Chan is for mental and physical benefits. This is a stage where your concept is purely self-centred. There is no mention of philosophical ideals or religious experience. When you reach the second stage, it will enable you to liberate yourself from the narrow view of the 'I'. In the second stage you begin to enter the stage of meditation. When you practise the method of cultivation taught by your teacher, you will enlarge the sphere of the outlook of the small 'I' until it coincides with time and space. The small 'I' merges into the entire universe, forming a unity. When you look inward, the depth is limitless; when you look outward, the breadth is limitless. Since you have joined and become one with universe, the world of your own body and mind no longer exists. What exists is the universe, which is infinite in depth and breadth. You yourself are not only a part of the universe, but also the totality of it. When you achieve this experience in your Chan sitting, you will then understand what is meant in philosophy by principle or basic substance, and also what phenomenal existence is. All phenomena are the floating surface or perceptible layer of basic substance. From the shallow point of view, the phenomena have innumerable distinctions and each has different characteristics; in reality, the differences between the phenomena do not impair the totality of basic substance. For instance, on the planet on which we live, there are countless kinds of animals, plants, minerals, vapours, liquids and solids which incessantly arise, change and perish, constituting the phenomena of the earth. However, seen from another planet, the earth is just one body. When we have the opportunity to free ourselves from the bonds of self or subjective views, to assume the objective standpoint of the whole and observe all phenomena together, we can eliminate opposing and contradictory views. Take a tree as an example. From the standpoint of the individual leaves and branches, they are all distinct from one another, and can also be perceived to rub against one another. However, from the standpoint of the trunk and roots, all parts without exception are of one unified whole. In the course of this second stage, you have realised that you not only have an independent individual existence, but you also have a universal existence together with this limitlessly deep and wide cosmos, and therefore the confrontation between you and the surrounding environment exists no more. Discontent, hatred, love, desire - in other words dispositions of rejecting and grasping disappear naturally, and you sense a feeling of peace and satisfaction. Because you have eliminated the selfish small 'I', you are able to look upon all people and all things as if they were phenomena produced from your own substance, and so you will love all people and all things in the same way you loved and watched over your small 'I'. This is the mind of a great philosopher. Naturally, all great religious figures must have gone through the experiences of this second stage, where they free themselves from the confines of the small 'I', and discover that their own basic substance is none other than the existence of the entire universe, and that there is no difference between themselves and everything in the universe. All phenomena are manifestations of their own nature. They have the duty to love and watch over all things, and also have the right to manage them; just as we have the duty to love our own children and the right to manage the property that belongs to us This is the formation of the relationship between the deity and the multitude of things he created. Such people personify the basic substance of the universe which they experience through meditation, and create the belief in God. They substantiate this idea of a large 'I' the self-love of God and formulate the mission of being a saviour of the world or an emissary of God. They unify all phenomena and look upon them as objects that were created and are to be saved. Consequently, some religious figures think that the basic nature of their souls is the same as that of the deity, and that they are human incarnations of the deity. In this way, they consider themselves to be saviours of the world. Others think that although the basic nature of their souls is not identical to and inseparable from that of the deity, the phenomenon of their incarnation shows that they were sent to this world by God as messengers to promulgate God's intention. Generally, when philosophers or religious figures reach the height of the second stage, they feel that their wisdom is unlimited, their power is infinite, and their lives are eternal. When the scope of the 'I' enlarges, self-confidence accordingly gets stronger, but this stronger self-confidence is in fact merely the unlimited escalation of a sense of superiority and pride. It is therefore termed large 'I', and does not mean that absolute freedom from vexations has been achieved. Stage 3: From the Large 'I' to No 'I' When one reaches the height of the second stage, he realises that the concept of the 'I' does not exist. But he has only abandoned the small 'I' and has not negated the concept of basic substance or the existence of God; you may call it Truth, the one and only God, the Almighty, the Unchanging Principle, or even the Buddha of Buddhism. If you think that it is real, then you are still in the realm of the big 'I' and have not left the sphere of philosophy and religion. I must emphasise that the content of Chan does not appear until the third stage. Chan is unimaginable. It is neither a concept nor a feeling. It is impossible to describe it in any terms abstract or concrete. Though meditation is ordinarily the proper path leading to Chan, once you have arrived at the door of Chan, even the method of meditation is rendered useless. It is like using various means of transportation on a long journey. When you reach the final destination, you find a steep cliff standing right in front of you. It is so high you cannot see its top, and so wide that its side cannot be found. At this time a person who has been to the other side of the cliff comes to tell you that on the other side lies the world of Chan. When you scale it you will enter Chan. And yet, he tells you not to depend on any means of transportation to fly over, bypass, or penetrate through it, because it is infinity itself, and there is no way to scale it. Even an outstanding Chan master able to bring his student to this place will find himself unable to help any more. Although he has been to the other side, he cannot take you there with him, just as a mother's own eating and drinking cannot take the hunger away from the child who refuses to eat or drink. At that time, the only help he can give you is to tell you to discard all your experiences, your knowledge, and all the things and ideas that you think are the most reliable, most magnificent, and most real, even including your hope to get to the world of Chan. It is as if you were entering a sacred building. Before you do so, the guard tells you that you must not carry any weapon, that you must take off all your clothes, and that not only must you be completely naked you also have to leave your body and soul behind. Then you can enter. Because Chan is a world where there is no self, if there is still any attachment at all in your mind, there is no way you can harmonise with Chan. Therefore, Chan is the territory of the wise, and the territory of the brave. Not being wise, one would not believe that after he has abandoned all attachments another world could appear before him. Not being brave, one would find it very hard to discard everything he has accumulated in this life - ideals and knowledge, spiritual and material things. You may ask what benefit we would get after making such great sacrifices to enter the world of Chan. Let me tell you that you cannot enter the world of Chan while this question is still with you. Looking for benefit, either for self or for others, is in the 'I'-oriented stage. The sixth patriarch of the Chan sect in China taught people that the way to enter the enlightenment of the realm of Chan is: "Neither think of good, nor think of evil". That is, you eliminate such opposing views as self and other, inner and outer, being and non-being, large and small, good and bad, vexation and Bodhi, illusion and enlightenment, false and true, or suffering of birth and death and joy of emancipation. Only then can the realm of Chan or enlightenment appear and bring you a new life. This new life you have had all along, and yet you have never discovered it. In the Chan sect we call it your original face before you were born. This is not the small 'I' of body and mind, nor the large 'I' of the world and universe. This is absolute freedom, free from the misery of all vexations and bonds. To enter Chan as described above is not easy. Many people have studied and meditated for decades, and still have never gained entrance to the door of Chan. It will not be difficult, however, when your causes and conditions are mature, or if you happen to have a good Chan master who guides you with full attention. This Master may adopt various attitudes, actions and verbal expressions which may seem ridiculous to you, as indirect means of assisting you to achieve your goal speedily. And when the Master tells you that you have now entered the gate, you will suddenly realise that there is no gate to Chan. Before entering, you cannot see where the gate is, and after entering you find the gate non-existent. Otherwise there will be the distinction between inside and outside, the enlightened and the ignorant; and if there are such distinctions, then it is still not Chan. When you are in the second stage, although you feel that the 'I' does not exist, the basic substance of the universe, or the Supreme Truth, still exists. Although you recognise that all the different phenomena are the extension of this basic substance or Supreme Truth, yet there still exists the opposition of basic substance versus external phenomena. Not until the distinctions of all phenomena disappear, and everything goes back to truth or Heaven, will you have absolute peace and unity. As long as the world of phenomena is still active, you cannot do away with conflict, calamity, suffering and crime. Therefore, although philosophers and religious figures perceive the peace of the original substance, they still have no way to get rid of the confusion of phenomena. One who has entered Chan does not see basic substance and phenomena as two things standing in opposition to each other. They cannot even be illustrated as being the back and palm of a hand. This is because phenomena themselves are basic substance, and apart from phenomena there is no basic substance to be found. The reality of basic substance exists right in the unreality of phenomena, which change ceaselessly and have no constant form. This is the Truth. When you experience that phenomena are unreal, you will then be free from the concept of self and other, right and wrong, and free from the vexations of greed, hatred, worry and pride. You will not need to search for peace and purity, and you will not need to detest evil vexations and impurity. Although you live in the world of phenomenal reality, to you, any environment is a Buddha's Pure Land. To an unenlightened person, you are but an ordinary person. To you, all ordinary people are identical with Buddha. You will feel that your own self-nature is the same as that of all Buddhas, and the self-nature of Buddhas is universal throughout time and space. You will spontaneously apply your wisdom and wealth, giving to all sentient beings everywhere, throughout all time and space. What I have said reveals a small part of the feeling of one who has entered the enlightened realm of Chan, and is also the course which one follows in order to depart from the small 'I' and arrive at the stage of no 'I'. Nevertheless, a newly enlightened person who has just entered the realm of Chan is still at the starting section of the entire passage of Chan. He is like one who has just had his first sip of port. He knows its taste now, but the wine will not remain in his mouth forever. The purpose of Chan is not just to let you take one sip, but to have your entire life merge with and dissolve in the wine, even, to the point that you forget the existence of yourself and the wine. After tasting the first sip of egolessness, how much farther must one travel? What kinds of things remain to be seen? I will tell you when I have the chance!

http://www.kaihan.com/fives.htm The Three Roads of Tung Shan (The following explanation is taken from Shigetsu Ein's Funogo san ro, da, shi i rui, a 'Non-talk on the three roads, (three) falls, and four different kinds' (1761). Shigetsu was a Soto Zen master, a Japanese descendant of Ts'ao-Tung Ch'an.) For innumerable aeons, since there has been self ' this stinking skinbag has been changed from time to time, transformed from place to place, in a thousand conditions, ten thousand forms; who can reach the realm of our fundamental quiescence? If you get here, you must know this road. 'This road' means while dwelling in the present heap of sound and form, first getting rid of clinging to self, and attaining our former original state of selflessness. And furthermore, you must know that all things have no self. Once person and things are selfless, in your daily activities you walk in the void. This life basically has an undefiled practice and experience; thus would we practice and experience nondefilement. Today you must diligently walk in the void. Walking in the void is not some special art; each day when you go into the hall, you should not chew through a single grain of rice. Not chewing through a single grain of rice means that there is no breaking of the fast or violation of discipline by arousing mindfulness of tasting flavor. This is called traveling the bird's path. Travel on the bird's path is trackless; when you don't leave your body in the realm of tracklessness, this is the turning point of an ascetic. After you have arrived here and settled here, there is still one road going beyond. This road is not in going or coming; it is what is called 'moss growing in the jade palace.' All the names of the Other Side are temporary names for this. In reality, it is the one road that cannot be touched upon. That is why we say 'hidden.' And 'hidden' is not a matter of giving a name as its meaning; the realm called the hidden road is the realm of no name or meaning. This is why it is said, 'He has no country; he does not abide, dwells in no home.' To know this and yet be able to not remain here, to be an example for beings, to inspire and lead them, unify and teach them, is called 'extending the hands.' In extending the hands, there is no separate road; it does not transgress the bird's path. Traveling the bird's path by yourself, yet you extend your hands. In the bird's path there is no separate road; knowing the hidden road yourself, you still don't transgress it. Dwelling in the bird's path, you don't sprout horns on your head but always extend your hands. Thus the three roads are the cause and effect of the great practice; and the cause and effect spreads vast and wide throughout the whole universe. ... Fen Yang--Five States Fen Yang Shan Chao, 947-1024, was one of the great ancestors of the Lin Chi house of Ch'an, noteworthy for his development of the kung an as a tool in Ch'an study; one of his points was to show the unity of the essence of Ch'an in the midst of the various methods which had evolved in the streams of Ch'an teaching over the preceding three hundred years.) Coming from within the absolute The jewel sword of the diamond king Sweeps the skies with a spiritual light; It shines freely throughout the world, like a crystal, Its clear radiance free of dust. The relative within the absolute (biased within the true) The thunderous roar of cutting dynamism- To watch for the sparks and lightning Is still dull thinking; Hesitate and you are a thousand mountains away. The absolute within the relative (true within the biased) See the wheel-turning king; Enforcing the true imperative, with seven regal treasures and a thousand sons. Everything accompanies him on the road, Still he seeks a golden mirror. Arriving in both (in old tradition, this is arriving in the relative/biased) A three year old golden lion; His teeth and claws are all there- All demons and apparitions Faint at the sound of his roar. Simultaneous realization of both Great glory is effortless; Quit making a wooden ox walk. The real one goes through the fire- The wonder of wonders of the King of Dharma. Coming from within the absolute is lotus flowers blooming on parched ground--their golden calyxes and silver stems are bathed in jade dewdrops. The eminent monk does not sit on the phoenix pedestal. The relative within the absolute--the moon is bright at midnight, the sun must greet the dawn. The absolute within the relatives: hair tip becomes a huge tree, a drop of water becomes a river. Arriving in both-spirit does not come from heaven or earth; how can heroism depend on the four seasons for its impulse? Simultaneous realization-the jade woman casts the shuttle on the whirring loom, the stone man beats the drum, boom boom.

Just to add that generally, in Vajrayana, this is the training which proceeds direct introduction to the nature of mind as an empty clarity.

Yup, purification of the afflictions and actualization of the profound wisdom of emptiness (along with dedication of merit) form the core of the 37 bodhisattva practices, which are derived from bodhicitta and refuge in the 3 Jewels.

'Buddhist discussions' should primarily be geared towards the purpose of refining one's understanding of Buddhist principles; serving as a means of continually refining one's understanding of 'right view' which underlies all of buddhadharma. The motivation for refining one's understanding through discourse should be for the purpose of leading one towards liberation. Hearing, reflecting, and meditating on the teachings of buddhadharma gradually internalizes the 'view' which precedes practice and is the outcome of the practice (towards liberation). Typically, in Buddhism, the path is defined from within the parameters of progression throughout multiple lifetimes, so it's taught that whatever learning and progress made in this lifetime, provides the conditions that are continued in the next lifetime. This may not sit well with everyone... Someone should be open-minded towards the teachings, and willing to try to understand its principles from within the context of the teachings, since this informs the praxis. If someone is unreceptive to the teachings or unwilling to consider its principles which may challenge their current world-view: then its best not to engage in dialogue.