Simple_Jack

The Dao Bums
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Content count

    2,425

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    4

Everything posted by Simple_Jack

  1. Don't forget that Lopon Malcolm pointed out Jigme Lingpa (regarded as one of the most important figures in the Nyingma lineage), the terton responsible for revealing the Longchen Nyinthig teachings of Dzogchen, upheld Tsongkhapa's Madhyamaka: http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=6731&sid=092bd6e44341c2668968141f3f95c235&start=80 Malcolm: "....You have also forgotten that when someone opined that one could not realize the meaning of Dzogchen if they held Tsongkhapa's point of view about "Prasangika" [Prasangika being a Tibetan invention, a term coined at Sangphu by Batsab Nyima Drag in the 12th century] I swiftly reminded them that both Jigme Lingpa and Shabkar upheld Tsongkhapa's interpretation of Prasangika."
  2. For anyone that's interested, here's some links: 1. A PDF of Tsongkhapa's In Praise Of Dependent Origination trans. by Geshe Thupten Jinpa: http://www.tibetanclassics.org/html-assets/In%20Praise%20of%20Dependent%20Origination.pdf 2. Tsongkhapa's The Great Treatise On The Stages Of The Path To Enlightenment on scribd: Vol 1 - http://www.scribd.com/doc/89692023/The-Great-Treatise-on-the-Stages-of-the-Path-to-Enlightenment-Volume-1 Vol 2 - http://www.scribd.com/doc/93886729/the-great-treatise-on-the-stages-of-the-path-to-enlightenment-volume-2 Vol 3 - http://www.scribd.com/doc/93887758/the-great-treatise-on-the-stages-of-the-path-to-enlightenment-volume-3 3. A short bio of Tsongkhapa's w/ audio from the berzin archives website: http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/approaching_buddhism/teachers/lineage_masters/life_of_tsongkhapa/life_of_tsongkhapa.html
  3. .
  4. I actually agree with what Lopon Namdrol (aka. Malcolm) says about taking a more constructive approach to comparing the different Tibetan commentaries on Nagarjuna and Chandrakirti's Madhyamaka: http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=6731&start=100 "....I am attempting to encourage people to take a more constructive approach: instead of saying, as I have many times in the past, "Tsongkhapa was wrong to say that we may leave off the second two alternatives of the four extremes because they are double negatives", it is better think long and hard why he might give such an opinion. Rather than immediately assume that Gorampa is wrong in asserting that Candrakiriti accepts things like svasamvedana conventionally, it is better to ask yourself why he might assert that. These great scholars almost always have very solid reasons for saying what they do about this and that thing, and the thing is, we have to really question ourselves if we think something they said is wrong. That is my point."

  5. Are Sangha's Healthy?

    Simple_Jack replied to Vmarco's topic in Buddhist Discussion

    Thanks for the link!
  6. This is a non-sequitur. It's a possibility that he received Dzogchen teachings from one of his Nyingma teachers, but this is irrelevant since he didn't teach Dzogchen. Not surprising since he's one of Tsongkhapa's detractors representing the Sakyapas. Obviously, not everyone felt the same about Tsongkhapa. Feel free to propagate the sectarian squabbles of Tibetan polemics; I'm done with this thread.
  7. The guy I quoted said this in the same thread: http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=6731&start=100 Malcolm: "....If you are going to follow what some Tibetan says, fine. Pick one scholar. Follow their point of view. Unless you are prepared or capable of reading the scholars with which they choose to disagree, please do not jump on Team Goramapa, Team Tsongkhapa, Team Karmapa or Team Mipham. I have made that mistake in the past. I now clearly recognize that it is an error to jump on the bandwagon of Post-Indian Madhyamaka developments. It is one thing to try to understand the intellectual history of Tibetan Madhyamaka --that can be interesting for some people. It is quite another to jump on the bandwagon of this or that school -- then this just becomes scholastic politics... ...What is meaningless is the endless games of dialectics [in which I have also been playing] where each school and scholar triumphantly asserts that only they have the real key to Nagarjauna's intention. It is total nonsense. What we do not need to be transmitted to the West is the scholastic environment of competitive sectarianism. This helps no one's practice at all..."

  8. Are Sangha's Healthy?

    Simple_Jack replied to Vmarco's topic in Buddhist Discussion

    I'm not not saying they wouldn't, it's just I haven't come across an explicit reference to the 4NT/8FNP when reading about the grounds and paths of tantra.
  9. Well, there were a lot of people who didn't agree with Tsongkhapa's interpretations of Madhyamaka. Though, there's more to the story of his reception among the Tibetans than what Alwayson is presenting (it's purposefully one dimensional because he's openly sectarian). People are always going to have their preferences, but to present those preferences as an absolute condemnation, in this case, is an exercise in sectarian polemics. It's not the case that someone won't have a non-conceptual realization [of sunyata] by following Tsongkhapa's Madhyamaka: Malcolm: "....You have also forgotten that when someone opined that one could not realize the meaning of Dzogchen if they held Tsongkhapa's point of view about "Prasangika" [Prasangika being a Tibetan invention, a term coined at Sangphu by Batsab Nyima Drag in the 12th century] I swiftly reminded them that both Jigme Lingpa and Shabkar upheld Tsongkhapa's interpretation of Prasangika." [http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=6731&sid=092bd6e44341c2668968141f3f95c235&start=80].
  10. Yes, if we take into account the tantric teachings he received from Nyingma, Kagyu, etc. He went all over Tibet learning and receiving teachings on sutra and tantra from teachers of all sects.
  11. C'mon seriously? This is just a pathetic attempt on your part to discredit Tsongkhapa and his followers. I know that you don't want other people "to be led astray" by Tsongkhapa's Madhyamaka, but you're seriously resorting to a statement like that? You can do better than that.
  12. Which is funny because he wrote a praise to him: In Praise Of The Incomparable Tsongkhapa by Gyalwa Mikyo Dorje, the 8th Karmapa: http://resources.tsemtulku.com/prayers/deity-prayers/in-praise-of-the-incomparable-tsongkhapa.html
  13. Because these are Tibetan inventions.
  14. Because Tsongkhapa learned and synthesized teachings from the Sakya, Kagyu; while combining and revitalizing the Kadampa traditions going back to Atisha. Besides, for those other weirdos (like me) who are drawn to Tsongkhapa: his teachings could serve as a means for understanding and applying the Dharma. There is also a possibility that there are those who are unsatisfied with the standard presentation of Madhyamaka: who have an affinity for and prefer his exposition on the nature of conventional truth in relation to ultimate truth.

  15. Are Sangha's Healthy?

    Simple_Jack replied to Vmarco's topic in Buddhist Discussion

    Yup, which is why the stages and paths of tantra are considered as distinct to the stages and paths of sutra according to Vajrayana. Though, have you ever read a commentary from any of the sects where it explicitly states where/how the 4NT/8FNP apply to the tantric stages and paths? I'm not totally sure whether Patrul Rinpoche and whomever are referring just to the sutric model or if they are referring to both when they speak about the 4NT/8FNP and the path of seeing/meditation.

  16. Are Sangha's Healthy?

    Simple_Jack replied to Vmarco's topic in Buddhist Discussion

    ...Which are irrelevant to Dzogchen and Mahamudra.

  17. Are Sangha's Healthy?

    Simple_Jack replied to Vmarco's topic in Buddhist Discussion

    Which doesn't apply if you look at this from the POV of Mahayana, where Shakyamuni was a nirmanakaya: http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=4042&start=120 "These are nirmanakāyas of compassion -- they are emanations of dharmakāya. They will never revert." Which is irrelevant because in Vajrayana: http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=4042&start=140 "...Buddha was an emanation of Vajradhara, in turn, an emanation of Samantabhadra."

  18. Are Sangha's Healthy?

    Simple_Jack replied to Vmarco's topic in Buddhist Discussion

    I've read and heard it explained that the path is different, but the result [of Mahamudra & Dzogchen] is the same.

  19. Are Sangha's Healthy?

    Simple_Jack replied to Vmarco's topic in Buddhist Discussion

    All the rhetoric basically comes down to this: http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=4042&start=100 "...Reverting to the basis" means that you have not eradicated all the most subtle traces in the elements of your physical body."

  20. Are Sangha's Healthy?

    Simple_Jack replied to Vmarco's topic in Buddhist Discussion

    Yes and no. This doesn't negate what I said in my earlier post, because Dzogchen doesn't stop at that point, where its view represents the culmination of all vehicles. It goes on to say that because it represents the culmination, the essence of all vehicles: an individual must train in its view and utilize its methods in order to truly reach the culmination of a Dzogchen buddhahood; that is superior to the buddhahood of lower yanas.

  21. Are Sangha's Healthy?

    Simple_Jack replied to Vmarco's topic in Buddhist Discussion

    Actually, I was off. For the most part it gives quotations from other masters within the lineage saying that it is the pinnacle of all paths and that all paths lead to Atiyoga. Pretty much, what Jetsun said above. However, this doesn't negate what was said in my earlier post.

  22. Are Sangha's Healthy?

    Simple_Jack replied to Vmarco's topic in Buddhist Discussion

    I'm reporting you to the mods.

  23. Are Sangha's Healthy?

    Simple_Jack replied to Vmarco's topic in Buddhist Discussion

    Yes, really. Read Tulku Thondup's translations of Longchenpa's material in his The Practice Of Dzogchen, starting from the chapter titled "All the yanas and trainings are steps to Dzogpa Chenpo", pg. 91. Malcolm (aka. Lopon Namdrol) used to point this out all the time on the Dharmawheel forums.

  24. Are Sangha's Healthy?

    Simple_Jack replied to Vmarco's topic in Buddhist Discussion

    Not according to how Vajrayana delineates this. Dzogchen, especially, goes as far to say that someone can only become a samyaksambuddha through its own methods.

  25. Are Sangha's Healthy?

    Simple_Jack replied to Vmarco's topic in Buddhist Discussion

    Well, if you take into account that its tantras expound non arising of dharmas, freedom from extremes, etc. and its methods revolve around realizing this: then, IMO, that is the start of the 8-fold noble path in terms of distinguishing right view. Let's not forget that the Tibetans were big into the study of Madhyamaka which further establishes that they sought right view in accord with the teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha. If a Vajrayana practitioner is on the path of seeing or the path of meditation: then they're applying the 4NT/8FNP to realize buddhahood. Case in point.