Simple_Jack

CowTao...like the post. Especially these sentences: "It is known as the great mother, the womb of potentiality in which all things arise and dissolve in natural self-perfectedness and absolute spontaneity." "All aspects of phenomena are completely clear and lucid. The whole universe is open and unobstructed ~ everything is mutually interpenetrating. Seeing all things as naked, clear and free from obscurations, there is nothing to attain or realize." The above part reminds me of this saying by Andzom Rinpoche: "The primordial nature of being is not grounded substantially in any reality; it is of the very nature of spontaneous presence." "They are experienced in timelessness. The continual stream of new discovery, revelation and inspiration which arises at every moment is the manifestation of our clarity. We should learn to see everyday life as mandala ~ the luminous fringes of experience which radiate spontaneously from the empty nature of our mind." "The aspects of our mandala are the day-to-day objects of our life experience moving in the dance or play of the universe. "By this symbolism the inner teacher reveals the profound and ultimate significance of being. Therefore we should be natural and spontaneous, accepting and learning from everything." When all phenomenal appearances that arise are the meditation, then we can talk of being natural and spontaneous. Spontaneity is clarity.

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This question is independent to the above... Scotty, just wondering, since you do neigong and shit...Have you opened your third eye yet? Or had any OBE'S? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems strange that you would hold physicalist views of the experiences of consciousness as only residing in the brain.

Even someone who is blind and only sees "darkness," or the color black due to the absence of light...this too is still a phenomenal realm of consciousness. Same with hearing or not hearing. Also this whole thing on Past, Present, Future...as it says in the Diamond Sutra: "That which the Tathagata calls the mind is not really the mind, but is merely called the such. Being as such, Subhuti, the past mind is ungraspable, the present mind is ungraspable, the future mind is ungraspable." They are "ungraspable" merely because the events, scenery, thoughts, experiences, etc. are always changing. The "present" moment becomes the "past" moment in each moment. So each "present" moment is fleeting (becoming a "past moment") and can't be held onto. The "future" moment, hasn't happened yet, but it too becomes the "past," once it happens. Yet each phenomenal moment as Dogen put's it: Is complete with past and future and is independent of past and future.

"Cultivating the heart/mind is important to any cultivator of Tao. For the benefit of those who seemed not to know, the heart/mind is mentioned in the Tao Te Ching and in the much older Book of Changes." Right...who said that it wasn't a Taoist concept? Also I thought since in China heart and mind are used interchangeably: Since "heart" and "mind," in China (when used in that context) both signify the "mind?"

Actually, a "Buddhist" would understand that the brain, the six senses (if you include thinking consciousness,) and body are subject to change and do not constitute an absolute, independent, or unchangeing "self." They are "relative," because phenomena arises in each moment due to the fluctuations of karmic energy, that is an interdependent display of yin and yang (cause and effect.) Hence they do not constitute an absolute, unchanging, or independent "existence."

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Luckily for you, both these philosophies are highly compatible! As evidenced by thier interaction in China, since Buddhism was first introduced. Many Taoist's actually "converted" to Buddhism. In fact, at it's core they talk about a lot of the same stuff! Though from my own experience: Buddhism, gives you a more systematic approach to cultivation; giving the individual the why and how to cultivation and being more extensive in the explaining of it's priniciples of D.O and inherant emptiness...It will actually help you understand the higher level teachings of both these philosophies on both an intellectual, but more importantly, an experiential level!

Woah, hey there buddy...This post in no way was referring to Sogyal and the incident he's involved in. This post was in response to Twinner's post, about the book on the Zen monks. My fault on not specifying. Regard my post as an off-topic post.

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Hmmmm...I wouldn't say "seeking a state of ignorance;" more like you're seeing through fundamental ignorance, and realizing innate wisdom. You are definitely "cutting through" afflictions that cloud our self-nature and with realization the guessing and the need for conceptual elaborations, gives way to actualized spontaneous presence. Ignorance is "replaced" with primordial wisdom.

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To post other stuff talking about what the sage should embody according to Lao-Tzu: "That is, Heaven and earth nourish the myriad things and people, but they do so without any selfish aims or preconditions. The myriad things derive life from them as well as meet their ends, a completely natural phenomenon. Heaven earth give life without any resentment over the toil, and take no credit for their deeds. Therefore, people should emulate the great spirit of unselfishness, benevolence, and compassion embodied by Heaven and earth. This is an ethical standard, the realm of the metaphysical Tao and the natural law of the physical world." "When Lao Tzu spoke of "non-action," he was referring to the very essence of Heaven and the Tao. "Not non-action" refers to the fact that although the substance of the Tao is "non-action," yet it still possesses the functions and effects of living things going on without end. Therefore, there are theories of the "mutual production of existence and non-existence" and "emergence from movement" for the functions of the substance of Tao. His proposing of "non-action" and "not non-action" for Heaven and the Tao also explains that people should emulate Heaven and earth, act when it is appropriate, stop at the proper time, and realize the standard of true-selflessness and impartiality.This is the firmness of Heaven." "However, Lao Tzu also brought forth the principle of the true sage, that is, the true sage should emulate the nourishing of the myriad things in the world and be spontaneous like Heaven and earth without aims or conditions. Lao Tzu felt it was wrong to think that Heaven and earth were predisposed with benevolence, as was maintained by many of his contemporaries. He stated that Heaven and earth gave birth to the myriad things without any discrimination, treating equally the myriad things and straw dogs." "Lao Tzu felt that the true sage should also maintain such equality and selflessness in saving and aiding the world, being deviod of any aims or conditions. Lao Tzu said: "Heaven and earth are not benevolent, It treats the myriad things as straw dogs. The sage is not benevolent, and he treats all people as straw dogs." Those of later generations employed these lines to satirize the sage as well as Heaven and earth, [but they simply did not understand Lao Tzu and the conditions he was writing about.]" "The Great Man spoken of in the Book of Changes is equivalent to the true sage mentioned by Lao Tzu. "Harmonize his virtue with Heaven and earth" is very similar to the idea that of Heaven and Earth, "The myriad things depend on it and it denies nothing to anyone. It does its work but makes no claim for itself." Is not "Harmonizes his brightness with the sun and moon" The same meaning as "Heaven and earth are not benevolent, it treats the myriad things as straw dogs?" The sun and moon illuminate Heaven and earth without discriminating the pure and the impure, but show equal compassion to the highest level of purity and to the filthiest cesspool. The remaining "Harmonizes his sequence with the four seasons, and harmonizes his good and bad fortunes with ghosts and spirits" Can be explained the same way."

It's quite simple really.... It's the absence of a "self;" or a "doer," "action," and "doing." Hence, "The sage has no being. Therefore no loss no lose." So there's just responding according to each circumstance, scenario, or occassion. Like some you have been saying: This could mean rising to the occasion to save someone, or whatever; there's just spontaniety when reacting to a situation. Here's some stuff on the Tao te Ching from Nan Huai Chins The Story of Chinese Taoism: "However, in reality, the tao (way) and te (virtue) were originally separated. The "tao" is the substance while the "te" is the function." "The original text was burned during the Ch'in Dynasty, and therefore later the order of the chapters could not be determined....However the division of the substance and the function were very clear and so we should understand that the focus of Lao Tzu's political thought involves the concept of "virtue." He employs the term "Way" as the central philosophy for internal self-cultivation, and the term "virtue" as the emphasis for external handling of political and social affairs. Moreover, the meaning of "virtue" in ancient times also embodied the idea of "attaining," equivalent to effects and attainments in modern terms." "Lao Tzu said: "High virtue is non-virtuous, therefore it has virtue. Low virtue never frees itself from being virtuous, therefore it has no virtue." This refers to the highest virtue, that is, even if one performs a virtuous deed of the highest order yet he does not consider gain and loss of such action. This is equivalent to to the "non-action" and "not non-action" related to the concept of Tao as discussed by Lao Tzu." "

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