Astral_Anima

Responsibility.

However it would be irresponsible of a teacher to give such a method to a student who is not ready, not equipped to handle what comes with it. What happened to the day where the teacher would give low level things to the public (outer circle) but would only let CERTAIN PEOPLE in the inner circle. What happened to the stress on virtue and having a good heart. What happened to purification through karma yoga or through service and "repentance"? One's projections will drive them mad until they understand what is causing those projections and without a teacher readily available to help them they are left on their on to deal with something they were never ready for. If a technique is potentially dangerous then it should not be taught to just anyone who can fork over $300, the potential student should be "scanned" to see if they are ready and if they're not they should be given some purification practices or perhaps some information on how to raise their vibration. The way Max advertises Kunlun is that it's for everybody and he spreads it to anyone willing to pay regardless of their mental state or karma or anything. I think there's a reason Sifu Jenny wasn't teaching this publically Just my thoughts -Astral

Hey All, This is from the book "Ways to Self Realization" Written in the 70s(?) by Mouni Sadhu. In this book there was a chapter called "False gurus" that I had to write down and share. It's a pretty good read but for those who are lazy and only want the main points I want to emphasize i'll quote some stuff. But I highly recommend reading the whole chapter and certainly the book is a good read as well. You can find it fairly cheap on amazon. Mine's already falling apart cause it was only $4 Anyway here are some good quotes: Please read the whole thing as it's a very good warning for new practitioners and ever for those who may already be in this predicament. This book was written in the 70's but even today this continues. I found this chapter to be very insightful and an interesting perspective to view things from and wanted to share. Again please read the whole thing, it's very intersting Lemme know your thoughts Peace -Astral EDIT:I'm reposting the attachment due to a typo. Look below.

Hmmmm, Dixian definately sounds fun...I'm already working on breatharianism...I wonder what else is required? Physical immortality IS talked about in other traditions...well I only know of one other tradition other than (apparently?) Taoism. Ohhh and I wonder what the transformation would be like, sounds fun. Oh and lastly I don't think the Dixian would have to be away from society, just toxicity (ie modern society). I wonder if Yi-gong is a part of it. I remember in the kunlun book you're supposed to visualize yourself with pure white skin on a 1000petaled lotus. -Astral

Counterpoint Pt. 1/13 (stick with it, it's a great lecture) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpa8o1hrrK4

Isn't it kinda dangerous for people to "open up". I mean for people who are good hearted people and don't lie, cheat, steal, kill, eat flesh and such...I mean maybe for them, but for the average person...wouldn't they be attracting alot of "negative entities"? Shouldn't they focus on virtue first before opening themselves. Also what of the "alchemy"? Is that learned after you "open up"? Is it taught/transmitted by other beings? How does it work to create immortality or a returnable body? Also can the body return to a physical state or only in an energetic state? Sorry for so many question I just have so many questions, lol. I you want to PM if that'd be easier, i'd be down for that. I know threads can be ...less effective to explain things, lol. -Astral

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Interesting. Can you elaborate any further on this? The best I know on the alchemetical process is that eventually you reverse the flow of the the energy? up the front, down the back? I'm also under the impression that it has quite a bit of "tapping into" of the "spirit world"? I believe it makes use of entities and perhaps commands those entities? Perhaps it calls upon entities to aid one in "evolution"? I know Mao Shan has it's history of "mediumship" and such practices. Am I correct? Does this have anything to do with it? Or am I just totally off?, lol

It's of amazing coincidence you bring this up I've been thinking of starting something like this myself. Of course I wasn't going to limit it to just cultivators (as I was thinking it could be more of a refuge for if when the economy collapses) but that does sound quite fun. I've been studying sustainability, permaculture and such and damn yo if any of us could get one going I think it'd be EPIC. I think it could definately work but only with the right people. but it definately sounds like a great idea. I've searched for something like this MANY times, but no success. Best of Luck with it. -Astral

Reposting this. Made a typo on the name. It's Mouni, not MounTi. Just in case anyone wanted to look him up. Sorry if this was an inconvenience to anyone. -Astral An Excerpt from.doc

taotongue- Ahh it's MOUNI, there's no T, i'm sorry, I made a typo, lol.

Haha, Can't say I fully grasp what you're saying. How would you differentiate a judgement and an observation? Or how would you define each. I think most expressions tend to get "lost in translation". http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/judgement I'm using definition 1, 4 and 6. For example "this glass is translucent" would be a judgment. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/observation?show=0&t=1298349822 I'm using definition 2 and 3. So basically when I say observation, I mean something that is observed and noted in thought. When I say judgment I mean a conclusion based on an observation. How would you define these terms and how would judgment hurt one spiritually? I can understand how using labels supplied with preconceived notions can be harmful. for example if someone fat, saying "you eat too much" would be an assumption that hasn't been verified or justified through observation; the person may be on a strict diet and simply have a glandular problem. I can see how that would be harmful. Is that what you mean? -Astral

taotongue- haha, glad you like it. There's also a great book on concentration that I've been using as the new basis of my practice. For those that have torrents here's the link: http://www.kickasstorrents.com/mouni-sadhu-concentration-1-ebook-pdf-t2681114.html The guy himself sounds pretty interesting. I may look into some more of his books. Most can be found on Amazon.com. -Astral

Isn't judgment, discernment and discrimination necessary to determine one's path? aren't these things tools for SAFELY progressing along the spiritual path? I believe two of the greatest master both Christ and Buddha were very discerning and discriminating. For example the stories of the Essene Christ wouldn't even accept anyone into his "inner circle" unless they were vegetarian and took an oath of non violence. Buddha as well set up 5 precepts that he had his followers take up. I should double and triple check but I'm 90% sure this was the case, please correct me if I am mistaken. I believe discernment and judgment is a crucial part of the human experience. For example we judge and label mushrooms and "poisonous" and "non poisonous" so people can tell the difference and stay safe from that which may potentially hurt them. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your post and if I am I apologize, this is just the impression it left with me. Plus I'm kinda in that mindset right now, I just posted a chapter from a book I enjoyed alla bout discerning false "gurus", lol. -Astral

http://www.primordialalchemist.com/programs/class_schedule/ So apparently Max is doing another seminar in Ojai California Feb 26-27. Since we've been having some heated discussion about him recently, this would be a great chance to ask some questions and experience a seminar with him. Anyone plan on going?

lol, well played

TORUS693!!!!!

So when it comes to emotions and such there's two basic theories (that I'm aware of) that seem to be in contradiction of each-other. The first is that if we don't allow ourselves to experience/express emotions then we end up repressing them where they stay "unprocessed" and usually some kind of "regurgitation" is needed to re-experience and express them in order to be "free" of them. This seems to be the consensus of most "shamanic" cultures and certain "spiritual" sects that are now appearing. The second theory is that we simply lack discipline and that we should work at learning to controlling our minds as the mind is a tool that when out of control can cause us to suffer with excessive thoughts and emotions. From my observations it seems most yogic texts and even Buddhist texts support this and call for strict observation and eventually control over one's thoughts/emotions. Perhaps these aren't in conflict, I'm not sure. From my current perspective they seem to be opposites and I'm not quite sure which one would be true. What are your thoughts on this matter. Do you think controlling our thoughts/emotions leads to enlightenment/mastery of mind or does it lead to repression? -Astral

Travel the world as a healer and teacher to those who wanted to explore their potential. Or perhaps I'd found a spiritual group and act as it's protector/healer and let the people reach out to others who wished to join. -Astral

Sorry but no. If i'm asking and pursuing it means it sounds interesting but I have to know more before I decide. Comparing a spiritual path to a puzzle sounds poetic but simply is not practical. A puzzle is separate from the individual, it doesn't effect them directly like a spiritual practice. Spiritual practice usually brings about much change in the individual, subjects them to many things, changes them in certain ways. It is my belief that one must be educated in what changes to expect and how they will be impacted by these changes. For example if you're fat and you're trying to loose weight, you have many methods, you don't know what they do. Imagine someone telling you they'll make you slim all the have to do is some slight surgery...of course you inquire "what will be done in this surgery?" "How will this surgery affect me", they just say "it'll make you slim". So you decide not to question further and they staple your stomach. Later you loose weight but then you realize what was done and you were horrified at what they did. If you had known what that method was about you surely wouldn't have chosen it for there are certainly other ways to loose weight. Of course you want the best method for yourself so you trusted these people who said they'd help you loose weight fast, and you did but the means by which it happened you feel wasn't worth the result. Some people wouldn't mind, but you do and you wish they'd just be open and honest with you upfront instead of immaturely using "mysteriousness" and "curiosity" as marketing tools. That is why you inquire. What if someone gave you a meditation to cure disease but they didn't tell you it would cause the death of someone in your family. It's these "monkey paw" things you have to be aware of because everything comes at a price and you have to know what price your going to pay before you buy or else you may end up dissatisfied. -Astral

This sounds more like deeply held beliefs. For example most boys are taught that masturbation is 'shameful' or "wrong" so thus when they do it they get the same inital reaction. But that doesn't mean something isn't "virtuous". "Virtue" (as i understand it) is based upon the (objective) LAWS of the universe. You do virtuous things because they bring certain positive results. For example Thanking people for things. In a research on water Dr Emoto brought forth the idea that thought forms could effect the molecular structure of water and since we are 70% water that thought forms can be a major factor to health and well-being. Thus it would be considered "virtuous" because it brings about universal harmony and happiness, not because it "feels right". Killing has "felt right" to many people but we all know that it's not virtuous to do so. Just my thoughts -Astral

Hey man, I hear ya on the difficulty of celibacy, it takes a real effort to make such a change. Took me about 6 years to get it under control(pretty sure I got it now, lol, not positive) and I have to say the biggest step in "conquering" it was my dietary change, then the rest was a natural evolution; I've "fallen off the wagon" many times. It is powerful, the psychological aspects especially. I know experientially that "regular sex" FOR ME is a waste of time because I doesn't benefit me or the girl I'd share it with because most girls are just trying to fulfill childish fantasies and are slaves to their physical urges (which are a bi-product of unhealthy living). Poor girls as young as 12 and 13 start developing physically the the level of 16-18 and they have these hormonal changes and physical urges and they don't know what to do with them...it's sad really. But i'm getting off topic... But yeah, any real change can be hard to make. For example I'm still in the process of refining my dietary principles. I've "fallen of the wagon" of this for about 4 years but each time I recover and i push further. It's kinda like DragonballZ (lol, wait, just hear me out). The main character starts off so strong, then someone stronger usually comes along and challenges them. Usually the challenger starts stronger and beats the main charcter's ass. But the MC gets back up and pushes harder and get more powerful, then someone new and stronger comes along and the process continues. It's like when you first start off you get to a certain stage (say you've made it 2 weeks) then it's like a whole new ball park, you may fall off. But then you get back up (of course not always immediately, I've had times where i'd be "off the wagon" for months before starting back up again) and you push to that point again, then you push further, maybe this times you make 3 weeks. And you keep pushing and eventually it becomes a part of you, like you said, the "21 day" thing, although I'd say 40. It's customary to follow 40 days fasts and meditation retreats, some even go as far as to say 100 days, but I believe the goal is simply to make whatever you're doing a habit, an unconscious behaviour. And yes this process can be applied to many things to induce change. Truly we are the masters of our body-mind, we can program it to function in whatever way brings us the most satisfaction. Try resisting meat, white sugar, fried foods, hell COOKED foods. They are all in the category of "stimulants". They give an initial "sensation" followed by a depletion of energy. When you really isolate the behaviours that drain energy you'll notice that our whole society is based around these activities. One who attempts to attain "physical liberation" had better move in with the Essenes, or like-minded people, otherwise expect to feel isolated and alone. Although it is my belief that for "mastery" over sexual urges one must not just "avoid" but "resist". It's very easy to indulge wholeheartedly in something and it's easy to avoid it altogether, however it's very difficult to have a taste and then resist. For example When I'm going good on the sex thing, I may watch some porn and try to keep my mind unattached, keep my body from responding. When I get to a point of dietary mastery I may introduce chocolate or high sugar and then not indulge any futher in any of the like. My personal approach to change is to jump in feet first and try to hold out as long as I can, whereas most people prefer to only put their foot in, and slowly adjust. Therefore for me if I "fall" then I lose ALL my self-control and over indulge. So for me the ultimate test is to reach a state of "achievement" then allow a single taste of indulgence and prove that I can resist further after getting a taste. That shit is HARD, VERY "high level", but truly a sign of mastery -Astral

Very good Padawan, you'll make a fine Jedi

I would ask yourself first if you have a goal in your practice. Certain practice are meant for certain things. For example Spring Forest Qigong is something developed for healing; certain arts are developed for certain reasons. I would actually ask Sifu Jenny why someone would practice Yi-Gong or what it's original purpose was or is, that may give you a better idea of whether or not the practice is meant for you or not. I know what it's like to wonder what practice to follow, it can be maddening because so little is known and so few teachers are willing to say what it's really about or what's really involved. Again I think it's based on your intent OR if you really trust a particular teacher that would help alot. From Sifu Jenny's site (under Q&A): -Astral PS anyone know about the "spiritual side" of Yi-Gong? Does she teach it at seminars?