Ish

Realistically you need a master. Even those with great masters who practice hard don't necessarily achieve the highest goal. In the mean time build your foundation, cultivate virtue and go extremely deep in meditation practice.

Beneficial for all cultivators? I kinda love rice too much to give it up =[

Nice link Gerard, one for the bookmarks.

Nice pictures Could you tell us a bit more about your internal cultivation program? Perhaps a short overview of whats in it, and what you can expect as result from the practice?

Master Feng Zhiqiang mentioned how excessively low stances causes chi to leak out of the perineum. He explains that this chi can not be felt like normal so one does not even know they are damaging their body. Interesting parallel with "yin chi" from Mo Pai which supposedly can't be felt until a certain level of development.

Just reposting from another thread - it's relevant here. "Ish, on 25 November 2012 - 11:48 PM, said: From my reading of Heart Drops of Dharmakaya it seems that the highest level of liberation is attaining the complete Jalus before death, with complete resorption of the body. So they can essentially complete the process and dissolve the body when they want, after this the result sounds very similar to the highest level Taoist immortals, they can appear in any realm as they choose to help beings. So isn't this very similar to the process described in Taoist Yoga? The physical body is either left behind or transmuted. To clarify here's a section from "The Crystal and the Way of Light", Quote A practitioner who manifests this realization cannot really be said to have `died', at all, in the ordinary sense of the word because he or she still remains spontaneously active as a principle of being in a Body of Light. The spontaneous activity of such an individual will be directed for the benefit of others, and he or she is actually visible to someone in a physical body who has sufficient clarity. But a practitioner who perfects and completes the fourth level of the Thodgal visions does not manifest death at all, but while still living gradually becomes invisible to those who have normal karmic vision. This level of realization is called the `Great Transfer', and this is the realization that Padmasambhava and Vimalamitra manifested. Essentially, the realizations of the Great Transfer and the Body of Light are one and the same; the only difference is that those who attain the Great Transfer do not have to go through death in the clinical sense in order to move from manifestation in the material plane to manifestation in the plane of the essence of elements. These two modes of realization are particular to the practice of Dzogchen Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. The Crystal and the Way of Light: Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen (p. 162). Kindle Edition. So if one reaches the 3rd stage of Thogal then they will dissolve into Jalus upon "death", but reaching the 4th level one goes through the Great Transference while alive as described above. Thanks anamatva for recommending this book."

Does yours crack a lot? I often get spontaneous movement and the atlas cracks and pops like crazy, there's no pain though.

That's assuming a whole lot. Be honest you and no one else here knows anything beyond level 4.

Thanks. Hehe true there isn't. I think i understand now.

Thanks Jeff that's pretty interesting. There are a few ways one could interpret the meaning of that statement, what do you make of "the subtle dimension of light"? Seeing this externally or perhaps in meditation? I'll be checking out more of Norbu Rinpoche's teachings in the meantime.

Most recently I've read "Heart Drops of Dharmakaya" and "The Crystal and the Way of Light", also watched videos of Dzogchen masters teachings. More or less the Dzogchen only begins when one can identify and abide in the natural state which is transmitted by the Guru, once you can do this that is basically all you need to practice. I understand that Ngondro, as you said, can lead to this natural state - a self initiation of sorts. Similar thought to Jeff, i'm also wondering that without the preliminary practices, actually getting the natural state from a transmission would be quite uncommon? Does your master openly teach CT? I'm interested in any opportunities to learn with a Dzogchen master. P.S. oops just realised i'm kind of derailing your thread Adept will take it to PM for any further discussions

Instinct is in our DNA, things that don't need to be taught. Of course humans have instincts as well. Intelligence is a lot more open, as Jetsun said about the more complex brain development of humans, its basically how you learn, inferences and connections/patterns that can be deciphered are all a part of it.

You're just full of gems LOL.

HI recep, are most of the masters you met (with David Verdesi?) closed from teaching? Is there any who accept students directly?

Well for sure there's some incredibly smart animals, from what I know about some wolves and elephants they can indeed have almost supernatural perception, beyond what we understand with today's science. I'm sure its the same for other animals too. I don't think they are lower life forms, just different, maybe humans just have a greater tendency towards spiritual evolution while animals are more instinct/survival based?

Hi CT, can you tell me what's your opinion on starting right away with Atiyoga? From my research this is possible due to direct transmission from the guru, but i'd like to know your opinion.

Lol funny how people were saying in the other thread how they miss Drew, and he returns!

To clarify here's a section from "The Crystal and the Way of Light", So if one reaches the 3rd stage of Thogal then they will dissolve into Jalus upon "death", but reaching the 4th level one goes through the Great Transference while alive as described above. Thanks anamatva for recommending this book.

I'm glad that I can make you pee yourself with a simple sentence

From my reading of Heart Drops of Dharmakaya it seems that the highest level of liberation is attaining the complete Jalus before death, with complete resorption of the body. So they can essentially complete the process and dissolve the body when they want, after this the result sounds very similar to the highest level Taoist immortals, they can appear in any realm as they choose to help beings. So isn't this very similar to the process described in Taoist Yoga? The physical body is either left behind or transmuted.

0_0 was so important you had to say it twice?

Basically what Practitioner said, inspire people to put in that extra effort and find the real deal. The video of John Chang can certainly pique someones interest and open the whole world of cultivation - that's worth a lot in my opinion. When I hear/read people limiting meditation to de-stressing at best and deluding yourself in fairy land at worst it's quite sad, can cause the uninformed person to dismiss it all when they haven't even dived in themselves.

Check out "Heart Drops of the Dharmakaya"

Yeah I agree, that's the best we can get from Mo Pai at this stage, unfortunately. But it's still worth something. People love things that are secret and hidden, deep down the vast majority of us want to be special, nothing to sneer at really. But Mo Pai isn't the path to get there, for us Westerners at least. It's definitely a waste to be obsessed with it, but if there's a Mo Pai thread I might just click on it...

Spot on, if we're being serious here, it's just clarity in that you can see the negative and the positive and accept it. Just because you can see the bad stuff doesn't mean you're a depressed person inside, its just not being blind to what IS. Sure ignore everything except your own happy bubble but don't go into shock if it comes crashing down.