Raymond Wolter

Is it really unsafe? Or probably it depends on what is "forced"? And may be what is forced is different from person to person? Chunyi Lin teaches MCO in his basic level. Winn teaches a physical form of it. Falun Gong guys jump all the way to Big Orbit right away. So, a bunch of folks do seem to group MCO among the basic stuff and feel a need to specifically work on running the orbit. Different schools of thought I guess?

Oops! Scary! Taomeow wrote something similar ..

Anyone here who has actually practiced Falun gong for a reasonable period of time? Any benefits, problems you encountered? Did anyone feel the Falun rotating? Taomeow wrote somewhere that the practice cultivates/implants the Falun and not some person implanting it specifically. I practiced Falun for the first time incidentally last night and could not sleep for a minute. The whole body was buzzing with energy and the abdomen was hot like on fire

Hi Xabir, I have not had the opportunity to speak with anyone so far who accepts they are self-realized. I, at this point, am NOT interested in a comparison between self-realization and Emptiness/DO or how one transcends the other etc. What I am interested to know is what is with you after Self-realization? How has your body changed after this? Have you become healthier? Can you heal? Do you have heightened intuition? Do you have any so-called Siddhis? Or you are still the same being who feels pain and pleasure but have a greater sense of serenity? Have you found your energy body open up? Do you shoot energy around you with mere presence? So what is that is different now apart from a certain "mental" state of perception/awareness/whatever? Do you experience flashes of brilliance? Do your words flow spontaneously when you write or you still find use quoting from the suttas? I am trying to understand if self-realization has anything to with physiology and energy body at all and anything apart from the "mind".

Drew, That simply went over my head So were you saying physical movements Qigong is necessary or just watching the breath/thoughts and getting into emptiness is good enough? Also, any idea why Master Lin does not teach the Macrocosmic orbit? He teaches only the smaller orbit across the four levels I am told...

Thanks Hundun. Bear with my ignorant questions So Qigong helps, and I have my experience to believe that. However, what really happens with Qigong? First step, build/collect energy in the Dantien. And then run the orbit. From my limited understanding, these are the basic goals of Qigong? I found this post very apt. So you just focus on your dantien and what needs to happen, does happen. And is this not the same some basic exercises of Qigong, for example SFQ, try to accomplish? Build the lower Dantien through physical movements which seem more forced than this natural approach. The only thing missing here is probably the physical exercise part? And, would the same not be achieved through Zazen where one does put the attention on the hara? And hence also with Anapana in some way? Another gem here. So after the Dantien is developed, the orbit simply flows as long as one does not obstruct it. Again, what is the use of intent, physical movements etc. here? My basic question is still the same. How exactly do the physical qigong movements help? Or do they at all? One reason I can think of is stagnation of energy and getting rid of that requires elaborate qigong movements? Drew wrote on this on blog:

Hi Mike, I come from mind-only meditation, Theravada/Tibetan Buddhism backgrounds and took to Qigong recently, mainly for health benefits. I practice Kunlun along with Spring Forest Qigong and have found the combination to be wonderful. I feel energized all through the day and need less sleep. This helps me meditate more and makes Vipassana easier. As suggested by a very helpful Kunlun instructor on this board, I separate the two practices and do them at different times. My frustration initially has been that of nothing dramatic happening, LOL. Over a period of time, I have changed this expectation of something needed to happen to simply letting go, being aware and let the energy wash through. Though nothing dramatic by Kunlun standards is still happening, I can care much less as I see clear benefits in my day to day life. I do both SFQ and Kunlun, so I can't comment on which one is helping me, or the combination of both, but I definitely notice a sense of upliftment in every aspect of everyday living. Not much of an advice or a tip but just a note to keep you inspired. Good luck! Raymond

How does one do that? Just pray, with intent?

Drew, You're Amazing! Interesting you brought up Master Nan, Huai-chin. Nan (or Bodri) seem to insist on watching the breath and think Qigong, Small Orbit etc. as being unnecessary. What is your take on it? Is Insight (Shamata/Vipassana) just enough? Do we need Qigong, Small Universe or other deliberate energy manipulation techniques?

Drew, Any idea what Master Lin derives his form from? Any specific Qigong form or a bunch of forms? Do you know of any other forms such as SFQ which are equally simple and beneficial? Just for curiosity really ... Have you tried Fragrance Qigong? Seems very simple too...

True. After my first Vipassana retreat, I healed myself of bad eyesight and my vision improved so well I had to change my glasses. My doctor was surprised! Second retreat, a bad cases of frequent sinus inflammation disappeared without a trace and has been so for 20 years now! I think many ignore the healing aspects of Shamata/Vipassana meditation, probably to prevent the use of these methodologies for such specific causes or with forced intention but they do seem to clean the energy body very well. I however still wonder why symptoms like Zen sickness occur though? Incorrect practice perhaps?

Drew, I just got a newsletter that there is an SFQ workshop in LA. Hope I can make it. As for master Zhang, I see he has a bunch of videos on his homepage. He seems to use mantras and mudras with his qigong extensively. Does anyone have any experience with his Qigong forms, especially the Mysterious Pyramid Qigong?

Thanks! Probably you may want to correct the title to Guru Purnima?

Lino, I thought Devas, Angels and others are helpful beings? They may not give one enlightenment (whatever that is lol Taoist, Buddhist, Hindu definitions) but are they not helpful and benign beings? What does one do to protect oneself from such stealing? Chi Kung? Mantras? Shielding? Grounding? What practice do you currently follow/recommend? For some reason, I just feel what you have realized is very valuable.

You do not appear serious or sincere. Sorry! It was fun so far but now you are partaking in Vajra's insult hurled at Mr. Marble. Ok, time for another merit badge. Well, I will probably be banned for this but what the heck - why don't you bend over and let Vajra do his thing? Grow a spine please, will you? Do you still pretend I am the only one having issues with Vajra and his croonies - you figure in the top of this list. If you have nothing faint to say about anything but Buddhism, why the hell are you not in a Buddhist forum? Or in a Vajra fan forum where you can keep cheering for him? You are sad! And Buddha is not proud of you.

He will continue to disrupt every discussion and say the same thing over and over again. And the cheering by the cheer leader squad gives him a false impression that he is truly expressing teachings of the Dharma here and doing a great service to humanity. Notice how those complaining of snide and immature remarks are now quiet! Unfortunate but true. You will get an advice soon to examine your reactive attitude, contemplate and be more open minded.

That's an insult and uncalled for. Mr. Cow, what do you have to say about this language from your neo-Buddha who you shower lavish praise on? You agree with such insults too? Why are you not chastising him in the same spirit as cheering for him other times (all times?)

There you go! Easy was it not? I bet that is how most people stop arguing with Vajra as well. They just get tired and give up. Some of his Karma is yours too I guess on account of your rallying for him. Two ways to look at this - as further evasion of some serious, logical questions regarding your take on Buddhism as the only path; or as an attempt to surrender to silence and contemplate and look within to even consider a possibility that everything is not perfect there - and that everything is not so "thick" elsewhere I will go with the latter assumption. I still have some faith in your earlier persona of eloquent words and language of peace.

Mr. Cow, where is the eloquent language, the advice to turn frustration and anger as tools for inner contemplation etc.? All the finesse is gone when subjected to some trial and turbulence? Need more meditation no? Why did this thought about disruption and repentance for the same not come earlier when Vajra went nonstop talking about totally irrelevant stuff? Home team or just cannot argue with him? Does it not sound hypocritical? I was not on this thread till a while ago, so what about the disruption caused by the one you have awarded your unconditional appreciation? I am glad at least your expressing your real emotions this time and not hiding behind a make believe persona of Mr. Nice and Holier than Thou. Congrats on your first step to freedom my Friend. It is okay that you have chosen not to answer any of my perfectly logical questions and that in itself is the answer. Incredible did you say? Thank you. I take that as a compliment and turn adversity into a tool taking Rangjung Dorje's primary advice as a precursor to the teaching of Mahamudra.

And what about your unconditional endorsement of Vajra's proclamation of Buddhist superiority? You called him the true champion of Dharma and that obviously means you agree with him. His basic argument has been the superiority of Buddhism over other paths and most often nothing more than that. Also, if you read this thread, or others, you jump in to defend Vajra whether needed or not. So what is all this diplomacy about? Your proclamation of Buddhist superiority is not direct but stealthy. Like I said elsewhere, Vajra anyday is better as he is not scared of expressing himself and makes no pretenses. You seem to be so afraid to express yourself truly and want to hide behind the persona of a "nice guy". If that benefits you and makes you happy, so be it. If you disagree with Vajra's proclamation, why not say it out loud? Of course, you need not and are free not to do that but at point, going by your unconditional award to Vajra as the "true" Buddhist and the one with "right view", it would only mean that ascertaining Buddhist superiority over other paths and repeatedly harping over how other paths lead only to rebirth is indeed the right view and you subscribe to it. None of what I say is projection but simply deduction based on your own posts. And may be you are the one projecting. Is it not possible? Not even faintly?

Lol sorry had to do one last gig before retiring for the day. So trying to score brownie points with the Moderator? Is Vajra the owner of a part of the blame too or his merit badge is still intact? Good night

Which is your take on it. Ask the few others here and they probably feel the same about you and Vajra here. That exactly is the point I am trying to make. Don't try to conclude who is open minded or not based on who agrees or not with you. Which is why I said, it would do a lot of good to examine your own attachments. But where is the possibility of that when you have concluded you have no attachments, Buddha's path is the best and the only one without even having compassion for a virtual soul on this forum (as you admitted yourself) and having not walked the path? Why do you conclude, talk and preach when you clearly do not have the basic qualification to do that - compassion and even a bit of it (quoting your own words). There is often a lot of darkness beneath the lamp. I am not sure if Daniel Ingram is doing retreats anymore but if he is, you are surely one who would benefit from it. It is just a sincere advice and you are free to reject it as most armchair philosophers do. I was exactly you a decade ago till my first retreat in Thailand. I love to quote Suttas too, have done that enough in E-Sangha but choose not to do it anymore for that is so not what Buddha wanted us to do.

So Ralis is the only lucky one? Mr. Songs, sorry, you will need to wait for your turn. Sorry for the assumption that you were compassionate. All that correcting and preaching you do on these threads, I assumed was out of compassion for those treading incomplete and flawed paths. So I guess you are just showing off then? Not sure showing off one's Latin skills in Timbuktu will win one acclaim, even if one assumes Latin to be the universal language and the only clear, true and most useful language.

And Mr. Cow, you forgot to thank me for giving you an opportunity to observe your reactions to my snides, let go and contemplate. Should not a true contemplative person like yourself use every snide and praise as tool for self-evaluation and technique to observe the mind? I thought Vajrayana teaches one to use every hindrance as a tool Also, when I expressed similar disagreements with ShaktiMama and Santiago (who I maintain are very nice people) over Shaktipat - what will like to call "snides" perhaps - I got a PM from your kind self congratulating me and expressing support. I appeal to you to see this conversation in a similar spirit of disagreement and not disharmony, even if the disagreement is with your home team - Vajra and Buddha - not necessarily in that order.