Daeluin

Whats the reasoning between 1 and 2? Was I able to answer this in my last points above?

For comparison, here is Brook Ziporyn's translation: What comes to mind for me is an exploration of scope: How the scope of one entity differs from that of another. How this difference in scope is sometimes mistaken as one entity presumes to emulate another with a different scope than their own. How this failure to emulate something else can easily lead to judgment between things that are assumed to be similar when they are not. How scope can indeed be changed and grown if one does understand the difference and prepares what is necessary for the change, as in the different preparations necessary for a large journey and a small journey. We observe how even in understanding how scope may be changed, we often place limitations based on what we believe is possible, only trying to attain what has precedence rather than exploring beyond that. We observe one who does go beyond those set precedents and is able to fly, and too observe that he still depends on certain resources to maintain this extraordinary scope, and thus even in being able to fly, his freedoms are limited in some fashion. Then we look at the largest scope within existence, that of heaven and earth and the six directions of qi which form the natural changes between heaven and earth, and ponder the implications of this scope. Is there anything restricting the freedom of one who is able to merge their scope with such forces, one who rests only upon all that is at its most basic layers? And too, if one is able to unite with these most primal forces, does one's identity maintain as before, or has it merged with those primal forces along with the merging of scope? Thus also raising the overarching idea that change of one's scope is also change of who and what one is. There are further implications here - we all rest upon these primal forces already. Perhaps there are some limitations given through nature that grant us the scope we are born with. Yet are there not ways we have shaped and limited our scope artificially, in our minds? Why?

Stop making me laugh, they're starting to notice me!

Thank you for the laughs! Yes, it was presented in the manner you describe. Scammer or not, I think he got the message by now. Humility can go a long way, however. Like here, what I've seen of your nature makes me doubtful you will understand this concept, but who am I to pass presumption upon what you know or do not know? I've even seen you change. There are those who are the real deal, and who knowingly say something that will lead to much surface level slandering. What a great way this is to weed a garden. I've seen this happen, deliberately or not I do not know. A reputation precedes, and those who listen to reputations laugh and look elsewhere. And those who listen deeper form their opinions after being drawn deeper. From what I've seen, those who stick around have received quite the reward. Again, in this case I have no idea, and don't have $700 so am not really interested, nor did I ever get excited about anything but the chance for a rewarding exchange, which I found quite readily. Still enjoying this exchange too, though some seem rather stuck like gawkers around the stocks. LOL. We're all one, yo.

It is quite the blessing that we have those who are both skilled teachers and compassionate, patient communicators here among us. It is not easy to do what they do. I imagine there are many teachers who are not adequately socialized enough to avoid traps commonly found in internet forums. Just because they choose not to defend themselves against attacks from those who they have little interest in interacting with, does not make the naysayers correct automatically. In my message to our OP, I let him know that much of the reaction here has come from the offer with a hidden price. Many are attracted to the idea of something for nothing - especially on the internet - and are often quick to pass judgment given just a little information. It may have yielded better results to put this in our Upcoming Events subforum, where it is more common for people to post about classes that have associated costs, and where those looking for something for nothing won't have much good reason to get involved.

Oh that made me chuckle, thank you. I feel the same way sometimes. 'Tis one thing to be responsible for one's self. 'Tis another this absurd expectation that we are somehow responsible for sustaining the unsustainable and wildly tumbling machinations of our society's more elaborate needs ambitions.

Who is talking philosophy? Emptiness is where jing, qi and shen emerge from. It is a very tangible concept that many here work toward cultivation of. This is something at the heart of alchemical and medical texts. Treating it as only a philosophical concept, one may as well pretend that energy does not exist. If that were the case, why are there such elaborate discussions on it, people who speak of their experiences cultivating it, people who heal others through its manipulation, and so on? It is said that emptiness is found in the center that has no location, so having no fixed position but remaining open to consider all possible perspectives is related the cultivation of emptiness, certainly.

I find it awkward to categorize things like Zhunagzi and Laozi. A categoriztion, to me, indicates we know the intention behind the voice, yet these works are widely recognized as elusive and mysterious. To me, they point to emptiness. The more one follows where they lead, the more one is able to comprehend what is not easily comprehended. I do not feel Zhuangzi is a philosophy any more than is taking a walk in the woods, and yet both may wander along common themes and lead one to a more balanced awareness of harmony. Personally I have found Brook Ziporyn's translation to evoke a clarity that leads me much more quickly to illumination than some of the older translations. So far I have also only taken the time to explore the inner chapters, as many of the others feel rather different in transmission. Such is the way with woods, I suppose, and it is lovely. It would probably do me good to explore some from Mair's perspective. I don't know if we've had any ideas about how to begin, but one idea is to re-use the old threads, but maybe sticky the ones we are actively talking about over a given length of time. Something like a chapter a month? Each chapter has multiple sections, so that might help in exploring various melodies within each movement.

Well said! Much of my life I've had an odd relationship to external acknowledgement. People unable to hear things I would share, and so on. I pretty much chalked it up to awkward lack of timing and poor social skills. These same things ended up getting me noticed rather well for farting in the classroom and eating healthy food for lunch, and so on. At some point I guess I started merging with better timing, and learning to dissolve my awkward intensity. I might encourage a person in some way, knowing they would really like X, only to see them forget about it... until a month later someone else would tell them about it and I'd hear how happy they were to have found it. At first I felt mildly jilted, but then I began to realize this was resonant with LaoZi's concept of the sage doing things such that people think they did it themselves. And how this can be quite the blessing, allowing one to flow freely without the dangerous bonds Zhuangzi speaks of. Along the way I found a teacher and a class, and began exploring cultivation work. Many experiences. Among them, one day I felt as though my consciousness had sunk rather deeply within myself as we were standing, listening to some instructions. Then as we repositioned to do a form, someone walked over to fill the space I was in, and would have bumped into me if he had not become aware of me all of a sudden. He was clearly surprised that he had not noticed me. It was a little thing, but it seemed related to my energetic state that day. In any case, this thread reminds me a lot of hexagram 15. People find it easy to see what they want to see, especially when the truth becomes obscured. This becomes rather poignant in terms of the potential what is empty on the surface has in navigating any obstacles (line 5).

Why should anything related to him prevent you from following your destiny? We are all destined to become the universe.

As well as the student is able to manifest, I imagine... any of you could accomplish what is offered by simply holding the proper intention and letting it change and guide you. Letting a supposed price get in the way is no different than letting your ego hold you back. Double edged sword indeed.

I think invisibility is related to the principles of shen, or spirituality. The mind is like a mirror, and these days the norm is for the mirror to show us the discomforts and imbalances of our heart and organs, as they process what we feed them (as food and from our surroundings), and we process these signals to such an extent that the mirror becomes clouded and full of instructions and processes that are related to our ego. Much like writing on a window with a marker, and so obscuring the view to the point where one forgets it was possible to even peer out of. When the mirror is wiped clean, when the organ energies are at peace, I believe we begin to detect the subtle shapings of shen, or spiritual energy, within us, and when we open our third eye, outside of us. Then I imagine there is much to behold, that was previously invisible. Our metabolism of shen between us and our environment, that is always present, yet always unseen. The spiritual entities that have been attracted to our energy, our spirit guides. Energetic bonds between us and our environs. How and where our energy is whole and/or leaking, or where we hold it, if not within our body. At least these are my musings. As we begin to work with shen, to cultivate and infuse ourselves with this energy, we may very well become invisible to others. In that our field, which is so full of shen, which they cannot perceive, blinds them to the rest of us, much like a cloak of invisibility. We are there, and we interact with them, but the part of them that is holding the strings is unaware. Perhaps we are present and clock in, and their sovereign mind does not see us, but their spirit does, so they do not become aware that we are missing and do not punish us. Or perhaps we do something we "aren't allowed to do" but remain within spiritual harmony, causes no dissonance, no rippling, and our stepping out is not punished. For the laws of man are artificial, and what is contrived is ever subordinant to what is primordial. And beyond this, there is emptiness. This emptiness is rich and full, for it is where all things emerge from. Its workings are even more mysterious than invisibility, for it is again more primordial than shen. Who can say how and where it will unfold but one who is completely merged within that process? Even one with spiritual sight cannot see beyond the present shapings in front of them. Zhuangzi speaks to this theme, which is also related to the eight extraordinary vessels, something deeply related to the workings of the energy body and alchemical vessel.

Oh, I like this section. There is a commentary here. Hmm... I'll just repost that here. Zhuangzi, Chapter one, translation by Brook Ziporyn. This is the concept of "Walking Two Roads," found in chapter two as well: This concept allows one to flow harmoniously with what is external, even while maintaining a vastly separate scope of operation on the inside. The principles found in the Dao De Jing describe how to just just that. In my opinion, the tao is right there in front of us, waiting for us to listen to what it is teaching. When we flow like water, following the paths of least resistance, the tao leads us into circumstances which will challenge our egos and help us to empty. By learning to synchronize with this path of least resistance, we become harmonious within the operation of the external realm. Then as we cultivate our inner realm, we are able to maintain our connection to the external realm, even as our inner scope changes and we put miles and miles of air beneath us, we remain dependent upon what is low to keep us up high. Our foundation is upon what is low, and if we do not take care to maintain it how will we not avoid damage? Many try to hide in absolute isolation, but the changing external world has many ways of catching up. Simpler to cultivate a flowing invisibility that ever merges and slips past, yielding to remain whole. Thus we are able to chariot upon what is true to both Heaven and Earth, merging with the ebbs and flows of the ten thousand things, dependent only upon the operation of the dance itself, until mysteriously slipping through to what is beyond both Heaven and Earth. Those who focus on the infinite are well to be reminded it ever includes and depends upon the mundane.

I see a lot of absolute statements in this thread. Can y'all back up your statements without trying to sound so absolutely right?

From different perspectives within the whole we see things in different ways. There is no right or wrong, as everything is right or wrong from some perspective. Enlightenment may be similar to climbing to the top of a mountain, where one may see in all directions, from many perspectives simultaneously. To reach this place, we all climb toward the same peak, and we all climb from different directions relative to where we are within space and time. Those of us in the west might climb to the east, those in the east might climb to the west. We might form schools of thought relative to these directions. Should one in the east follow the path of a school in the west, this can be confusing and lead one astray. We must find the right paths for ourselves, and the best way to do this is to listen to our inner heart. Throughout our existence, we have all come to embody specific shapings relative to space and time. Just like how we might birth into a new existence just when all the planetary gravities are in specific configurations; those gravities pull us in specific ways, and this, along with many other gravities, inform our inner nature. Coming to understand our inner nature, we come to discover what direction we need to climb to reach the mountain top, what food we need to eat to cultivate a healthy body and mind, what challenges we need to overcome to make our energy whole. There are many influences, many patterns, many astrologies within many layers. They all point at the same nature, from different perspectives. One may study the parts forever without getting any closer to the whole. We know ourselves simply by listening - the more we listen the more we can simply feel change as it changes. The more we feel change, be it the feeling of one planet meeting another, or of our body processing food, the more we are able to flow towards an increasingly centered wholeness. When studying, something is gained every day. When cultivating Dao, something is lost every day. Loss and the "loss of loss" reveal wuwei. Wuwei leaves nothing undone. dao de jing, 48, tl. Liu Ming

Now I remember. Little poof of dao dust.

Hmm.... what was it like before? Just bold for unread threads, but no dot, unless you were following and then the dark blue star?

Seems like this was part of the design - lots of feedback on this in IPB forums, but no resolutions I could find.

Thank you for this. I believe that one of the main potentials of internal martial arts schools is for the training of deep meditative states while in movement. The idea of true stillness within movement may seem hard to fathom, yet in the yijing we see these two are closely connected. It is difficult to nurture stillness if the body is bouncing up and down, so training one's movements to maintain an overall levelness, with fluid and gentle shifts as required by the terrain, can really help. Sinking into the hips and bending the knees can help. In walking, there is usually one leg that is supporting most of the weight and one that is positioning without weight on it. The supporting leg should be rooted to the earth, and the positioning leg should be weightless. In time, as one develops skill at gracefully and fully shifting weight from one to the other, one may come to find that it always seems like there is a stable, unchanging pillar beneath one, rooting one to the ground much like in sitting. Even though one is moving, it is more like one is still, yet the world is moving around you.

Just in case you fine gentlemen have not found it yet, we have an entire sub-forum dedicated to topics on the I Ching (Yijing) within the Daoist Textual Studies area: http://www.thedaobums.com/forum/349-yijing/ Either or and what questions are indeed answered, I believe. However, with either or questions I believe the answer to be in between, and with what questions the what may be many whats, not necessarily the direct what related to one's query. So answers to these questions may very well be valid, but are very difficult to accurately interpret. Asking how and why questions offer more easily accessible interpretations, IMO. I've read that in the past questions were only framed regarding past and present situations, and it was just a little taboo to ask about things in the future. And then we look at Shao Yong who wrote an entire book of mostly accurate future predictions. Naturally there are many techniques... This quote comes to mind: From Thomas Cleary's translation of Entering the Dragon Gate about the teaching of Wang Liping. My sense is that, with stillness and sincerity, one questions the changes, and receives an answer based on the loudest stirring within one's conscious/subconscious sphere. Thus the answer is subjective, but if one is able to cultivate stillness, and take care to ask questions related to one's most dominant concerns, one will receive clear answers. Taking it deeper, once one has cultivated enough stillness that one may avoid tainting questions with one's own local noise, one may selectively tap into deeper spheres, or collective unconsciousnesses, as one is able. Also...

I like referring to the bagua as elemental forces, as in basic, primary powers. These 3 are even more basic, more primal. As ever, 'tis difficult to speak of such preeminent manifestations with any true clarity.

Hexagram 15 contains the trigrams of earth and mountain. Trigrams are like elemental forces, and the elemental force of mountain is like a containment of something. It holds, and therefor has something to hold. The elemental force of earth is receptivity, emptiness, openness, acceptance. With Mountain beneath Earth, it is somewhat like hiding a mountain beneath a plain. Beneath, there is a mountain, a strong force, but on the surface it is not seen. Above there is a vast expanse of flat nothing for as far as the eye can see. It is like having something but not being able to tell anyone about it. What one has is not obvious, and people will not treat you any differently for having it. And thus the meaning of humility attributed to hexagram 15. When one is able to have, but not need to boast of it, and have even though people look at you and say you don't have, then one is able to be humble. In being humble, nothing can be taken away, for people cannot even see what you have. People may try to push you around, and you simply go along with it, for they cannot even see what is contained within you, and therefor cannot come to control that which supports you, and therefore cannot hurt you. For your reading, it might indicate that you may find a job that you truly enjoy when you are able to be humble about your work. Perhaps it comes down to what you enjoy. If your terms for enjoyment are strict, it will be hard to find something to enjoy. If your conditions for enjoyment are low, then it will become easy to find enjoyment in anything. This may not be quite what you wanted to hear from the yijing, but often the yijing reaches very deep and lets you know the very basic, most profound answers to your queries. In the end finding a job that is enjoyable depends more upon you and your ability to learn to enjoy things than upon what job it is.

As far as timing goes, if one is in DST that must be adjusted for. Additionally Liu Yiming notes that the blance of yin and yang is not fixed to the clock. Zi and Wu indicate the extremes of yin and yang, while Mao indicates yang overcoming yin (sunrise), and You indicates yin overcoming yang (sunset). If one wishes to follow this more fluid timing, then the above windows are: The hour before and after noon, and the following 2 hours. Between an hour after sunset and an hour before midnight. These are rough windows, as the length of an "hour" is also in fluctuation between winter and summer. One may look up the time for noon and midnight based on one's location here. Also note this theory may come from a highly respected daoist transcendent, but to my knowledge is not found in modern medicinal/astrological practice.

Yes, thank you for sharing. They say the energy of the month is the strongest, and we've just come out of the Snake month (yang fire) into the Horse month (yang and yin fire), so the fire during this time may be some of the strongest. But then we enter into the sheep month where we still feel all that heat very strongly, and then into the metal months. These are metal years, so we can expect these months to carry strong lessons as well. Metal is related to our ability to digest what we've been through, how to accept and move on. Often we have trouble accepting, trouble letting go, and don't want things to be over yet. So we attach to our desires and don't let go. But here the fire, if we work with it sincerely, can help us to melt down those old attachments and dissolve those feelings before they get planted as new seeds for desire yet again. These fire-metal years may raise strong challenges, but also provide great opportunity to re-forge ourselves. It's hot, but if we bear the heat we can do great work... we just have to do it.