Daeluin

Ah, thank you for this detailed explanation. I haven't made it very far into section two yet... I feel like I still need to draw out and explore more deeply the implications of the nayin system. What I've studied of feng shui so far has revealed a great deal of complexity that I haven't tried to digest yet. So many layers. I look forward to studying section two and will keep your suggestions in mind as I do so. In just a few pages of the intro I felt I learned more about the subject than several other books combined. The merging and unfolding of time and space seems core to much of this. Having spent while looking at time, perhaps the study of space will be helpful.

My main unanswered queries are related to the 8 house system and the six celestial figures. I can understand how the trigram wuxing values could carry over to the doubled trigrams, but that doesn't explain why this particular sequence of line changes from house to house was chosen over another method, or why the branch assignment is the way it is. And there seems to be a long history involving the six celestial figures, but little available information on it in english. Especially the Curved Array and Flying Serpent seem to have an interesting role to play, yet I haven't been able to find anything on why the Snake was shown to entwine the Tortoise in the northern sky. I've come to realize that any system we put into practice will bear results, and that is fine. But if a particular system operates on principles that reach deeply into the root, then practicing without understanding why seems likely to yield somewhat obfuscated interpretations. So in my studies I am not looking for what is right or wrong, but looking to connect more deeply. Developing a background in Chinese metaphysics has been incredibly rewarding, especially when the various branches begin to converge upon the root. So I've been continuing to study various schools of thought in hopes that I will be able to make these connections better. In particular I found Briefing Leaders and The Imperial Guide to Fung Shui & Chinese Astrology incredibly helpful in reaching more deeply into these things. It is possible the answers are right in front of me and I simply haven't realized it yet.

How do other beings in nature balance daily life with practice? For them they are one and the same. Perhaps it is simpler because they just do, without contemplating emotions or justifying decisions or making plans.

Thank you, Diaitadoc! I would be interested in learning more about this. I've read about Mayi Daozhe in Seeking the Spirit of the Book of Changes, and A Companion to Yi Jing Numerology and Cosmology merely describes the Fire Pearl Forest Method as the invention of the 3 coin casting technique, often attributed to his student Chen Tuan. What you are describing sounds similar to Jing Fang's Wen Wang Gua. I've studied this a little from Jack Chiu's excellent book. Personally I find this system quite complex, rolling several techniques into one system based on principles that are not entirely clear to me. It does however offer great depth of interpretation. Personally I believed Mei Hua was more about the numerical techniques used derive a hexagram than the interpretation. To me the interpretation of the hexagram based on the component trigrams precludes and informs all traditional hexagram interpretations. The mystery, for me, lies in comprehending how the inner and outer lines of a trigram interact with another trigram, as the inner and outer operate on different principles. So when they are combined, it is not as simple as seeing lake under heaven and thinking of joy subordinant to authority, but of understanding the influence line 3 in ☱ has within its own dynamic, and then how that influence uniquely applies to the lines of another trigram it meets, and vice versa. It is still as simple as looking at one elemental force combined with another, but holds to a deeper understanding of the principles that make each elemental force tick. The received interpretations never deviate from meanings found in this way, and perhaps reveal that great depth had been reached in utilizing this method. I am happily open to the further exploration of any of these topics!

Lots of great chickweed out there right now!

Maybe we should rename "Off Topic" to "The Pub"... and of course, in "The Pub," the earth is... uh... neither round nor flat... but... multi-dimentional-lawn-clipping-fuz.

Seems to follow the same general principle of "addictions," or "habit momentum": we settle into a particular pattern and the more we explore it, the more deeply it becomes entrenched, until it seems to be the only reality that matters. To get out of it we need to transcend that reality, to somehow make our wagon jump out of the deep ruts its wheels have made time and time again. Helps to have awareness of the overall center the pattern has been winding around again and again, and perhaps use the counterpoint on the other side of that center as counter-force to shift the momentum. Tolkien has an in depth philosophy on a realm with two trees, one silver and one gold, that brought light to the land. But when wars and presumption went to far, this "garden of eden" broke, causing the mundane realm to become round and the celestial realm to effectively become "distant" from the mundane, and the light of the two trees became the Sun and Moon. At the end of the Lord of the Rings, some of the last elves go to the Grey Havens to make the journey from the mundane to the celestial. In neidan, it is said one who fully accomplishes the task may return to the 10 continents and live on the 3 islands. In Chinese historical legends, perhaps this is similar to two gods fighting and causing one of the four pillars of the world to break, resulting in a great flood and fundamentally altering the flow of qi. Or perhaps of Atlantean legend where a second moon broke and similarly damaged the fabric of reality. Or perhaps similar to one of many perspectives on the Arthurian Grail legend, where the Grail is found and taken from the mundane realm to the celestial realm as the mundane had been abusing its powers. Interestingly, in some unpublished writings, there is mention of a prophecy made of a battle which takes place at the end of time, after which darkness is vanquished and the Two Trees are remade, restoring the mundane to the celestial... perhaps returning from time and space to our flat-earth paradise. "Thus spoke Mandos in prophecy, when the Valar sat in judgement in Valinor and the rumour of his word was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of the Night out of the Timeless Void; and he shall blacken the Sun and the Moon. But Eärendil shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day, Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Eönwë, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, returning from the Doom of Men at the ending of the world; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the Children of Húrin and all fallen Men be avenged. Thereafter shall Earth be broken and remade, and the Silmarils shall be recovered out of Air and Earth and Sea; for Eärendil shall descend and surrender that flame which he hath had in keeping. Then Fëanor will break them and with their fire Yavanna will rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth. And the mountains of Valinor shall be levelled, so that the light shall go out over all the world. In that light the Valar will grow young again, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Ilúvatar be fulfilled concerning them. But of Men in that day the prophecy of Mandos doth not speak, and no Man it names, save Túrin only, and to him a place is given among the sons of the Valar." - The Later Quenta Silmarillion (History of Middle-earth, volume 11).

I'm a fan of Tolkien's flat-earth models. Also, many daoist concepts stem from thinking of earth as still and heaven as moving.

the closer one is to dao, the more whole one is, and this is associated with a feeling of sage like innocence. in innocence, what need for duplicity? too, when one sees so deeply, there is no need to be trapped by the mind of another. Are you harboring Jews within this household? What you are looking for is not here. Is this a lie, or does the sage simply see much more deeply into what the questioning Nazi truly desires? Often in conversation we lie without even thinking about it. Many people say can you help me with this but don't mean that at all... they don't want you to answer if you can help or not, they want you to come and help them. Many of us who increase our sensitivity develop an awareness of the conflict between what is spoken, and what is actually being asked for. Until we understand the difference, we might unintentionally react to these innocent duplicities found in every day speech. Some sages in the mountains will say I don't know to any question they are asked, because in the end, anything I attach to knowing blocks some other equally wonderful perspective. Zhuangzi says anything can be right or wrong from some perspective. There is a saying, those who know, don't speak; those who speak, don't know. So perhaps it is simply a matter of greater acceptance and trust resulting in the discovery of greater depth and purity.

shhhh... they might be listening....

Is it his teacher who is changing things based on what they want or make up, or are they simply channeling the changes of the times through their practices? In maintaining equanimity we are ever adjusting in new ways based on whatever we need to do to maintain the center. I tend to agree about methods coming from immortals... the more we tune into the heart of things the more we attract the attention of guides who have passed this way before. Even as we follow their traces, we leave behind our own.

Hello CummingsJD, there are a couple other threads of a similar nature. I'll post those here just to help keep things together. http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/36683-starting-with-the-yijing/ http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/37442-getting-into-the-i-ching/ http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/10646-best-book-dvds-on-i-ching/

How fascinating. There are so many. 子午卯酉? Liu Yiming has a whole chapter on this here. Or maybe ☰ ☷ ☲ ☵, the eternal forces which return to one. Or any number of 4 words which all mean the same thing. Perhaps. The more I study various branches such as positioning, calenderics, medicine, music, etc, the more apparent it becomes that certain cosmological concepts are used in the same way across all systems. Thus perhaps the keys to understanding the more mysterious sections of some texts might come not so much from a hidden transmission, but from awareness of what the only obvious meaning could be to any scholar of the time. Last night I was reading more in this book, and in two pages written on feng shui I learned more about the subject than I have in entire books. It also spoke on the principle of lairs, which are basically places where the qi in a vein might circulate or temporarily pool but without coagulating as it might do when it transforms into something denser, causing it to sink. Thus these lairs are good places for animals to sleep and replenish their qi, but are not holes or caves where the qi would be more stagnant. Similar to how people like to build houses in thermal belts.

Here is my sense, which may be right or wrong or both at once! When born, human needs to expand the energy into the vessel to be able to stand between heaven and earth, and in order to bring the parts back into a whole. The vessels and meridians cycling in completion. Perhaps then we can call this human immortal. But most of us get blocked and leak, and are sick, not immortal at all. Perhaps some cultivate yin instead and when dead the yin patterns remain enough to persist on indefinitely as ghosts. Who knows? Labels are just us trying to articulate the lines that already exists in the ebb and flow between yin and yang.

That would definitely be a way of bringing it more deeply into your life. The more you study each image over time, the more depth may emerge. The trigrams have their own nuances, and behave like elemental forces. In the yijing they are describing change that happens within polarity - one elemental force resting upon another elemental force. In internal alchemy there is a dynamic of self and other, or "my house" and "the other house", which is similar to consciousness and subconsciousness. One's awareness of identity tends to remain in the consciousness, but the subconscious is just as much a part of who one is, yet it has fallen into a pit so to say, following the dynamic of the elemental force of K'an. Thus the yijing is very much describing the principles of the whole within a polarized system, and these principles may be utilized to understand how to merge the polarity back into a unity. The cantong qi is a neidan text which goes deeply into daoist cosmology and use of the hexagrams. The translation by Fabrizio Pregadio is filled with scholarly notes which greatly help one to comprehend the mystery. Naturally every commentator brings their own bias, but I appreciate very much that Pregadio's commentary comes as an objective filtering of many other commentaries. It is also well mentioned that the Thomas Cleary translation of the Taoist I Ching might be misleading if one is not familiar with how Cleary's translation of some fundamental taoist concepts differs from that of other translators.

I second this recommendation - the first edition has lots of sometimes has less expensive used copies available. There is an intro that goes into the cosmological numerics with some detail. From the reviews it seems this book mentions the 3 dimensional aspect of the 8 trigrams, something I've found missing in other sources, so I've ordered this. Thanks! And it appears there is a newly published book (ah, just the paperback version is new) that also touches upon the Xiang Shu (image and number school, Hsiang Shu P'ai from above) tradition. Unfortunately is rather expensive. While the yili (meaning and pattern) tradition might be helpful for applying the yi for guidance, it does follow that understanding the mathematics behind the yi would help one in its mastery. This is interesting, as the yi, while certainly founded on mathematical principles, is still based on circular phenomena and might defy a mathematician who merely follows a linear tact without allowing operation of the intuition. In that sense perhaps it is also important to mention the Taoist I Ching by Liu Yiming and translated by Thomas Cleary, which is both mathematically principled and mystical.

I have also come to look more deeply into the metaphysical chinese calendar. It is very five element based, and so heavily relies upon those principles. Shao Yong's he luo li shu uses it to perform numerological calculations to identify hexagrams which pertain to one's entire life, so I figured it would be worth studying. It ended up unlocking quite a bit more for me, as both medical and alchemical texts also reference the principles within the calendar system. Also the calendar system, well, the cycle of sixty stem-branch combinations known as the sexagenary cycle, appears to be tied into the system of pitch-pipes, ie music theory. In his Book of Changes and the Unchanging Truth, Ni Hua Ching has a chart: The cantong qi also hints at studying the series of pitch-pipes and the calendar and the yijing together, so I figured I should do so, but this chart left me struggling. Meanwhile I had heard of another book that goes into a system known as nayin, which can be read about here. It takes the 60 pairs and follows a procedure to combine the two elements into one element. These new elements are more unique, such as lamp fire vs heavenly fire, or metal used in forging or the metal left over in the furnace, and so on. I haven't been able to discover much more about the pattern behind these names so I was curious about this new book. When it came I was startled to discover that this nayin system is actually the one referred to in the theory of musical note changes. Excitedly I read that it is apparently described in the classics very similarly to the yijing, with an Upper and Lower Cannon. The two distinctly different appearing systems turned out to be one system. Not only does this simplify them both, there are multiple perspectives to approach studying them from now, especially if I am able to connect them back to help understand how music theory might relate to the received sequence of the yijing. Often I find there are hints and clues like this, but it takes doing the work to make sense of it. Drawing out my own charts, using colored pens to help the patterns emerge in different ways, and so on, allows me to work around the circumference of the pattern, shifting my perspective enough until the center, the heart of it, begins to finally emerge. I don't know a whole lot about the traditional ways of studying these arts, but it occurs to me there is one common theme with all of this: the direct correlation of hard work to quality of skill: kung fu.

Da Lui has an interesting introduction on Shao Yong, in his book I Ching Numerology: It goes on to describe some very synchronistic occurrences that were perhaps the reward of his deep sincerity. I have come to experience some similar synchronistic events related to my studies in the yi (which happened to be while I was studying some of Shao Yong's techniques). Excitedly I shared these events with my teacher and he merely smiled and said that's how it works.

With all things, I would imagine it takes mastering one's self to truly understand anything else. Fortunately it would appear the yijing may be used as a tool to help one peel back layer upon layer until one reaches the root. There are so many ways the yijing may be applied and studied. The monthly hexagram cycle. Feng shui. Wen Wang Gua. The magic square. Alchemy. Bagua quan. He luo li shu. Plumb blossom numerology. And so on. Reading multiple translations is a given. But one needs to also bring it into one's life, make it a part of who one is. I used the calculations in a he luo li shu book to calculate "daily hexagram lines", which followed a new hexagram every six days based on the calendar. Each day was a new line. By studying this sequence I was opening it and making it a part of my life. This slow study allowed each new day to unfold and slowly bring new wisdom and reflections to me. Later I realized the calculations did not match what the original he luo li shu text called for. However it was opening the sequence and giving it energy over a long period of time that brought it to life and allowed me to listen to it better. Since then I've done this with other cycles, and learned much from this slow approach. There are standing and moving meditations that use different postures for the trigrams and hexagrams, and might differ depending on whether houtian or xiantian energies are being focused on. Feeling the elemental forces within is another way to receive the wisdom of the yi. Then one can leave the mind behind and become one with the change, allow it to deeply integrate within, and meditate on the imprinting each dynamic has left behind. All changes are one. Each hexagram should ultimately be able to lead one to the heart of change, the changeless. One should be able to look at anything and intuitively understand the myriad of forces operating on it. Some types of change are timeless, inherent at all times, though perhaps more strong or weak in their presence. Some types of change will be very dominant in a particular phenomena, but on deeper layers more subtle changes become evident. The yijing globe is a fascinating study of how all the symbols combine to form a whole, and how every whole embodies this collection of principles, be it a person, an organ within the person, a cell within the organ, a molecule within the cell, an atom within the molecule, and so on. Too it embodies the connection of the spiritual elements to all of these physical elements, and not only does it show the lines, but it shows what is between the lines. I've been told one may study the yijing for a lifetime. I imagine one only masters change by returning to the eternal.

道

I've heard the chakras described from a more light based perspective of energy nodes. In daoism there is the concept of xing and ming, or nature and existence. The ming / existence energy is related more to the feeling based energies that are denser and related to providing nourishment for the physical body. The xing / nature based energy is more related to the spirit nature that is more freedom and light oriented. There is a concept of cultivating the xing and ming together, to merge them back into oneness. This is related to the theory of jing, qi, and shen. These three are originally one, and become separate. When they are returned to one it is a type of emptiness or void. It is not really empty, as it holds the potential for all manifestations, yet it feels empty, as it has no shape. It is perhaps like a type of clarity that holds no space. So there are many different energy models. We can easily understand this by recalling that our eyes and ears are merely tools designed to perceive patterns in very specific vibrational frequencies. Other species have perceptions very different from our own. A goal in returning to the dao might be to cultivate awareness of and connection to all without reliance on the sensory organs. "A daoist looks at nothing but sees all."

Perhaps it is like choosing where to live. There are many solar systems and planets, few of which support life. Perhaps we can compare this to the many different types of lifestyles, all supported by different theories. Those which support "life" are those which are right for the type of growth we need. Then say we choose a planet that supports the type of life we need. There are many places to build a home. The mountains? By a river? The plains? What type of climate? Perhaps this could be compared to the many different types of people that might serve as guides to a particular lifestyle choice. There are so many answers. Which one is right? I feel that ultimately we each need to listen on our own and follow where our heart leads. When we set and hold the intention for something, it changes us over time. So if we set the intention to become whole, or to return to the dao, and make our choices based on this intention with sincerity, over time we will be provided the guidance we need. Zhuangzi says that we can only know ourselves from the inside out. We can't know anything else from the inside out, but only from the outside-in. It is common for students to seek externally for answers. Unfortunately this leads them outside of themselves, where the answers are. Virtuous conduct is valued because it creates harmony internally and externally, and leads to the resolution of many issues all on its own. Well said. Principles are like tools that may be used in different ways. Different schools leverage these tools in different orders, but we may talk about these tools in general ways to understand how they may be used. Ultimately it is a balance of using the proper tools at the proper times that gets one somewhere. It is common for schools to form which use tools in a very specific order, and followers of these schools often come to think this order is absolute. When people attach to one way, it can come to block the progress of a conversation. Thus when we speak of experiences, it is more subjective and can be easy to get lots of information that may be right for one path and not another. Zhuangzi says that everything may be seen as right or wrong from some perspective. So it is up to us to follow what is right for us. It is said that with sincerity the way is open. Following this we come upon what we need.

This hexagram is interesting as it is not among the 28 pairs that when flipped up-side-down result in a new dynamic of change, but rather when flipped up-side-down it results in the same dynamic. ䷛ It is rather like burning a candle from both ends - you can flip the candle over and, well, it's still burning from both ends. We can look at the opposite hexagram, which has thunder below, mountain above: ䷚ This one is called "Providing Nourishment", as it forms type of sealed container that prevents the leakage of energies. Instead of allowing the upper energies to waft away, the mountain seals them in, rather like having a roof over one's head. And below the energies aren't allowed to sink out of the body into the earth, using the force of thunder to arouse them back into circulation within the container. Flipped upside down it is the same. Thunder resists the pull of gravity by upward motion, while mountain seals the excess of mental activity with stillness. So with "Great Excess" it is as though something had been contained, but then the container vanished. Above and below the energy is exposed to the "elements." Aware of this, we can take great care in our answer to these erosive elements, both above and below, internally and externally. We need to rebuild the foundation that can contain these energies before their weight causes a collapse. And we need to be aware that our efforts to rebuild could be causing the collapse, as that shaping of energy is part of us. Hence sometimes the best way to rebuild that foundation is through cultivating stillness - when too much is in motion a storm arouses. To calm the storm stop feeding it.

Off the top of my head, 28 represents a situation where it is difficult to avoid excess. Following the sequence, the previous yin hexagram is 26, where great energy is cultivated through restraint. Retaining great energy is difficult if that restraint is not maintained. So in hexagram 28, below we have wind, with the bottom yin line stirring things up internally, making that energy want to change, to unravel somehow. And above we have lake, with its yin line up top tempting us to act rather than be settled in relation to our external environment. Lake is a dynamic of instant gratification vs delayed gratification. When we get paid we can spend, or save, yet often we are eventually tempted to spend, and it brings us joy, at the expense of our resources. So with wind below, lake above, things are stirred up and it is difficult to avoid using up our resources. Stability comes from inviting these yin lines to be still and settled, which requires equanimous perseverance, and is similar to the concept of non-doing. There is a lot driving us to do, but we can weather the storm with patience, and thereby make it through to the other side without having depleted our resources.

When looking for descriptions of the Wen and Wu principle, I discovered an article. It includes an excerpt from a Yang taiji classic. This except appears balanced and wise, so I feel it is appropriate to begin with. Others are welcome to share their own quotes and opinions, so we may explore the depths of each other's perspective. In this quote I discern an emphasis on balance between two types of development. Without one, the other is ineffective. For the sake of nourishing a constructive discussion, please be mindful of how these principles will be revealed in your posting. If we merely apply force without the proper amount of meaning to back it up, is this any better than bullying? Equally, if we express emotion without strategic application, is this not inviting bullying? But more importantly, if we do not listen for and respond to the internal behind the surface of each other's words, how can we hope to avoid a potentially hurtful and ultimately nonconstructive application of energy? Let's be clear: Conversation is an exchange of energy. Many chose to energetically connect to and feed their shared perspectives. When polarity is established and separation ensues, one person takes energy from another. To what end?