Daeluin

Oh sure. And recognition of all polarities one relates to is helpful in adjusting one's balance and changing one's destiny. Most people hop in their cars and drive around without understanding what sort of impact this has... and all too often become defensive and reactive when it is brought up.

So many layers to balance. Sincere and good people still tend to flow within the layer of human constructs, which is merely one layer upon the many layers in operation among the species and ecosystems of this planet. Alas, this human layer is a cancer to these ecosystems, and those who are sincere and good, are still nurturing and supporting this human layer, and sustaining the unsustainable. Perhaps related, is a form of I Ching divination based on chinese astrology. From a person's time of birth, we can calculate an I Ching hexagram and line, which represents their main relationship to balance. Naturally, we all relate to all the different changes within the I Ching, and this hexagram simply shows one of the most prevalent polarities we are faced with, from the perspective of one layer. In reading many of these hexagrams, I've come to understand that almost everyone is more likely to go in the direction away from balance. Those with the hexagram "Humility" may find balance by simply allowing their humility - and yet the trend is to speak up and announce their needs and wants. Those with the hexagram "Grace" may appear graceful by restraining their inner fire, and yet the trend is to embellish, adorn, and exaggerate, allowing the fire to spill over the mountain. Those with the hexagram "Receptivity" are the most expressive of all, seeking to spend all of their energy into the void. And so on... 'tis simply the dynamic of creation of the 10,000 that is ever in polarity with the path of reversal. Yet today there is little balance between this expansion and contraction, and creation unfolds at a rapid speed, feeding on the surrounding balances, burning them up to fuel our greed in the name of progress. We think progress means solving world hunger. We think progress means a sooner end to war. We think progress means fulfillment and happiness, if only we can work fast enough, hard enough. And even those good and sincere people allow themselves to get caught up in the human momentum and allow themselves to become tools in the greed of others. I don't know exactly what this means for their karma. They can probably change their destiny some, and avoid making it worse, but the dept of change required to go all the way requires seeing beyond all polarities, healing all polarities. Similar to people who heal cancer via qi-gong - it won't work for everyone - people must summon the will for deep internal change. Some "destinies" will be easier to change than others, and there is nothing wrong with simply flowing patiently, cultivating a strong foundation of sincerity and goodness, each life getting closer and closer. There is no "need" to do it all at once with some incredibly extreme push - if that push fails, that extreme becomes part of one's momentum next time and might simply bring confusion. Anything is possible, and everything is right from some perspective. The answer most "right" for each of us is deep within us, and all we need to do is follow that as best we can.

Accept oneness with everything. In time allow your breath|qi|energy to merge|integrate with enerything, this allowance coming naturally not from an external intent, and from a deep and refined focus on maintaining sincere internal centered-ness within. In connection with all, acceptance and communion with all.

Riding the Phoenix to Penglai is a recently published book including translated poems of Sun Bu-Er, noted Taoist Adept of the Complete Reality School, and commentary by Jill Gonet. Here is an excerpt describing the book, and a review. The book is available for purchase here. We are honored to have members who have been practicing in accordance with the instructions contained in this book, and it is our hope that a discussion extending beyond textual theories may unfold here to the mutual benefit of everyone involved. As this book resolves around a female perspective on internal alchemy, there may be some subtle nuances that differ from what those of us find in the more male-centric classics of internal alchemy. Further, it is very easy for the masculine to trample over the feminine principle without listening long enough for the subtle depths to emerge. As this has already happened once, this new thread will be moderated and biased against comments that are not supportive to an environment of mutual collaboration in regards to this text. When people have to fight to be heard, stillness is left behind and the subtle remains hidden. When we surrender what we think we know and open to new possibilities, we may be surprised at what emerges as our perspective is invited to shift.

Funny thing about polarity... if we think someone wants something of "ours", we're basically creating a "door" for them to take it. See emptiness in everything, and where is there for your emptiness to be stolen to?

When one is born, one learns to do many things that are unnecessary, and can be seen as "side-paths". When we recognize the unfolding layers of qi, and how this unfolding limits our life and potential, we can then see how turning back and nurturing our root can help to preserve us, and can help us wind back the unwound to slip through time to the origin and culmination of all. In this process we go beyond ourselves, become more than just what we were born as, and manifest powers as the sun, the moon, the stars, the cosmos might employ. We know that using these powers intentionally leads us that much more in the direction of unwinding. And yet we have found ways to continue existing within our bodies, continue walking, moving, as cultivating harmony in our illusory existence deems necessary, simply following ziran. In this way we do not intentionally choose to unwind, but allow ourselves to be drawn forth into flowing with our environs, and so merge with and help heal and wind back our environs, help connect and nourish that which is separating all around us, all unintentionally. Drifting upon the winds, sparking a fire, speaking into a mind, navigating a battle, all can be within divine operation if one simply follows where lead, one with the dao. Even beginners can apply this through nurturing acceptance and trust, following where lead and applying the proper application of power internally to achieve constant centered-ness.

Chapter 27, Words Lodged Elsewhere, Section A tl Brook Ziporyn:

Ziporyn: A hinged vessel that tips and empties when it gets too full. As a mediary, one is only passing something from another, pointing at the way but not proclaiming the way. There is no use of force, no proclamation that must be defended against, for in the end whatever truth emerges comes from another source, and is merely passed along, shaped, and carried by "me". The key here in disallowing the words from becoming confused with the truth, is to avoid proclaiming the truth in an absolute way, that could demand a defense as another proclaims that absolute non-true. Here I say this is the key, which is something rather absolute, and if you disagree I am called to defend what is stuck in my words against what you proclaim. Thus if there is no key, and if the truth is free to emerge or not emerge on it's own, those who hear the words are free to see a truth, or to see a not-truth, as both are contained within everything. And since There is necessarily some perspective from which each thing is right and acceptable. Thus, all things are right; all things are acceptable. So what words other than spillover-goblet words, harmonizing through their Heavenly Transitions, could remain in force for very long?

As poem 4 has been published publicly, I'll make a humble attempt at a commentary. And after careful consideration, I am removing the commentary to avoid confusing others. First, this was commentary on one poem of a set of poems. All of the poems are important, and people should study them all, not just one. Second, I have not mastered the merging of the dragon and tiger, and without absolute clarity and mastery any commentary would not lead true enough. Many pieces of my commentary were pointing in the right direction, but some were backwards and out of place within the set of poems. I revised this post several times and was not getting the sense it was clear enough. Third I cannot be certain the specific terminology used in these poems does not encode specific differences between male and female cultivation practice. I'll leave here that the crossroads of following and going against might be related to hexagrams 17 and 54. The dragon and tiger are related to the trigrams of Thunder and Lake, which are explored in these two hexagrams. As Liu Yiming's commentary in Thomas Cleary's Taoist I Ching speaks specifically to the alchemical process, I would recommend this source first. In regards to the trigrams, please keep in mind lake wants to be joyous, but in doing so will release what it has stored. When it turns inward and empties itself of joyous desire, what is missing becomes replenished and transformation unfolds. Use this principle to return within when the mundane encroaches - explore how this relates to the thoughts and the breath. I believe this is related to the concept of withdrawing the yin response. Thunder is sudden and unfolds from deep stillness. When the noise of wind and water are loud one only hears the manifestations of thunder, not the thunder itself. To reach that original clap of thunder, settle deep within, breathe to the lower abdomen and in emptiness see what arouses from the depths. Continue in stillness, and so encourage the arousing of the thunder. I believe this is related to the concept of advancing the yang fire. And also, following and going against refers to the natural order of the five elements and the backwards order of the five elements. It is said that if the five elements do not interact in their reverse cycle, the dragon and tiger will not copulate. [Zhong Lu Chuan Dao Ji / Eva Wong] But of course it is much more complex than this. Here is an interesting exploration of how the five elements may be explored in the layer of virtues, such that in resting upon the direction of the controlling force, one is able to adapt and harmonize without attachment to any particular bias, desire, emotion, constantly using the inherent checks and balances of the five elemental forces to create balance and harmony, to create centered-ness. And as this is achieved at the post-celestial layer of the organs, the reversal process is able to manifefst, which I believe allows the creation of the pre-celestial medicines from the post-celestial qi's. But don't take my word for it. Please study the daoist classics on your own, refer to this, and humbly allow a teacher who has mastered themselves to help you identify your blind spots. Blessings to your way.

Actually, I was reading in Zhuangzi a few days ago an interesting excerpt that covers the operation of how teaching can accomplish adaptation to many minds in different ways, even over the course of changing times. If you are patient with me I will post that excerpt here tonight, it might provide for an interesting exchange. Edit: I posted this excerpt over in the Zhuangzi subform for further discussion: http://thedaobums.com/topic/39184-heavenly-transitions

Agreed. Agreed - but there are different levels of ego. Everything I say comes from my heart directly, but also passes through the filter of my mind. You say different methods for different people - this is the adaptation of the transmission. The student must also adapt, must also work to connect to the transmission and embody it in their changes. Yes, many new age manuals don't seem to connect to the root. I imagine they still serve a purpose, as do all things. What I share intends to direct back to the root, leads back to the classics, uses allegory similar to Zhuangzi, much as many daoist commentators have done in the past, helping to decode and make more clear the ancient transmissions, so that more people may find them accessible. But hey, here you are attacking me, forcing me to defend myself, otherwise your words tell others what I am doing, as if you know: What you suggest is different, you're trying to give people some misty philosophy that adapts to them, because everybody understands it differently. Such thing already exists and its name is "new-age Taoism". Has it anything in common with Dao schools of the past? With Lao Zi? With Huangdi? Obviously no. I feel that it is statements like this that cause confusion, misleading others. "Obviously my suggestions have nothing in common with dao schools in the past"? Obviously how? Everything shares commonalities, as the whole includes all parts. To me, you seem more concerned with pointing out the false than pointing to the true. Does leading others to skepticism help them identify the true? But Zhuanzi says that knowledge is endless. We could spend lifetimes pointing out the false, never getting closer to the true. This does not seem helpful to me, but if you think so then that is your way. Unfortunately it is a way that creates much conflict with others, as often what you identify as false is connected to and pointing to the true in a way that you have not received the transmission to understand, and yet you judge it anyway. Good luck to you sir.

Robber Zhi saw Sages like Confucius preaching of virtues even as they helped to nurture the interests of kingdoms built upon unvirtuous actions. Robber Zhi's choice was to murder and pillage these kingdoms unconditionally, without harboring desire for fame or fortune. In this he saw and applied Wen, and when Confucious came to treat with him he applied Wu, explaining how the principles he acted upon were fair and just. Zhuangzi uses this story in several places, one of which describes how those who attempt to change the world with good intentions may in fact be doing the opposite. tl Legge: How are you to say if your sageness is benefiting the world or harming it? Rebels of oppressive regimes apply the principle of Wen to overcome their oppression. Is this good or bad? Terrorists arise in the same way, using the principle of Wen as they deem use of forceful Yang necessary to shake the world out of its injustice. Is this good or bad? Does it lead to increased balance or imbalance? tl Ziporyn: In cultivating the dao, in flowing with the dao, one is able to progress without deciding which way to change the world. Simply by looking within, and cultivating the return of health and energy through internal application of inferior de through doing, and coming that much sooner to application of superior de, non-doing, and ziran, one is able to walk a path that is guaranteed to be naturally beneficial to the whole, without needing to think about right or wrong: The philosophy is not necessary for the cultivation of neidan - it will manifest spontaneously if one is truly and deeply in resonance with the dao. Thus one does not need to be afraid of making the correct or incorrect moral choices - so long as they maintain sincerity in truest connection to the living, eternal dao. The way you phrase things, it seems like you are making mental choices about when to apply Wen and Wu, based on your desires. I could be very wrong - I do not know, and I don't want to project things onto you, so I carefully say this is what I sense from the words you have written, but I do not know. In teaching the dao to others, how is this any different? The teacher I follow leads and guides us, but is careful not to force us to do anything. Different people hear the transmission in different ways, and those with good ears learn much from the example set by the teacher. In this way there is no need to turn away those without "destiny", for only those who are changing their destiny will be able to hear. This can be applied to Wen as well, and does not require use of force, but rather can invite the necessary spirit to awaken to the overcoming of a challenge. This is just an example. There are many ways. Here, I am teaching philosophy, principles. How do I know if this is good or bad? How do I know if this is a synchronistic reply invited by a very weak connection to ziran, rather than ego? I don't. In fact it is likely mostly ego, the whole thing. All of this could be perverted in some way that undermines my entire intent. But I take care to avoid force, I take care to lead others in a direction I hope will lead to a greater increase in their connection to their own natural dao, in their own way. I take care to avoid saying there is only one way. My intention is to point at the dao so that others are free to connect to it in their own way. Here on the internet there are too many types of people to know which school of cultivation is best for each person's destiny, so it is best to stick to what is able to adapt to all of them. daodejing 78 english/feng: Under heaven nothing is more soft and yielding than water. Yet for attacking the solid and strong, nothing is better; It has no equal. The weak can overcome the strong; The supple can overcome the stiff. Under heaven everyone knows this, Yet no one puts it into practice. Therefore the sage says: He who takes upon himself the humiliation of the people is fit to rule them. He who takes upon himself the country's disasters deserves to be king of the universe. The truth often seems paradoxical.

Yes, I agree with this as well. It's funny how things just start to dissolve, and right and wrong just disappear.

Yes, I agree, to the principle at least. My point is that if we are sincere in cultivating to a higher level, we increasingly work toward letting go of examining and seeking. There are enough ripples already returning to us from our past seeking and examining - won't forcefully creating more just put off our achievement of a higher level?

Yes, thank you for pointing this out, though I hear you saying not what I do, but what I appear to do, not what I intend to do. I have done my best to be non-reactive and holding an intention for my contributions to contribute to an increase of harmonious interaction here. Yet in hindsight, after seeing how others react to me, I realize I could have done better, and I hope these realizations will help me do better in the future. Too I realize the times I have reacted, and wish that I had been able to remain calm in the face of adversity. I don't think this philosophy is black and white - I think it is about intention within change. If you understand people's nature as such, why do you respond to this nature in ways that will cause reactions that don't appear to be beneficial to them or yourself? I suppose what I do is up to the dao, and more importantly, my ability to surrender my ego enough to allow the dao to return to me. This Yang likely won't return if I am full of attachments inside, and it's counterpart of Yin won't let me be unless I accept and trust it unconditionally. I am not really very skilled at this yet, but I am trying to walk in a direction that has no need of judging others. At the moment I am brimming with opinions on principles, and perhaps am under the false impression that sharing them and refining them will help myself and others to eventually let go of what is unnecessary and embrace greater simplicity. I'm not really sure who is weak or not, and am not attached to absolutes anyway. Weak today, strong tomorrow.... who knows?

Ok, how about the cantong qi, which refers to the daodejing:

When we label things as "delusional fantasies," it projects judgment onto others who might be inclined to defend against these labels. And then we have yet another judgment preventing healthy progress and discussion. On the other hand, if we are able to remain objective, perhaps we can point out the temporary nature of such astral patterns, and that attaching too much meaning to them can prohibit progress forward. If we are tactful, and avoid forcing things, perhaps we can gently lead the conversation to a healthy direction away from such attachments.

As for the "visit", this idea that opendao scanned quantumdragon seems perfectly logical to me. Maybe it didn't happen, maybe it did. Who knows? If it happened, and quantumdragon had enough skill to see this as it unfolded, and the connection having been made, make her own scan.... well this too seems perfectly logical. Again, when we cultivate virtue, as in compassion, humility, frugality, and turn our spirit within to cultivate according to neidan principles, avoiding use of inferior de whenever possible, situations like this do not occur. The main impact seems to have been the evaluation of opendao's energy field, and the judgments made on his level of attainment. I'd like to point out that a single point in time snapshot of someone's energy does not indicate who they are, or how they are changing. Personally I believe that as we progress further we naturally develop greater humility and compassion and frugality - at least this is how it happens for me. An attitude of absolute right and wrong, and attempts to force people to admit it, seems at odds with this, but I am willing to accept there is more than one way.

I find this to be a very educational and beautiful thread. We are beginning to harmonize a bit more after a somewhat intense convergence of very different minds. We have new members here who are not familiar with the type of communication we are used to. Over time they are beginning to refine and settle in more harmoniously as they see how we do things and what our expectations here. At the same time they are unwilling to simply surrender their existing integrity. At first I advised meeting bullies with emptiness, being the bigger person, etc. And now I accept that when we have greater awareness of energetic interplay, we have greater clarity as to our capacity to work with that energy. I have said before that energy changes hands in discussions, and that forcing a winner-loser situation creates unnecessarily imbalanced situations. Thus, even as we saw things beginning to soften, we see that some projections are still being reflected back to their originators, and most gently so I might add. This is a reason I see value in virtuous conduct - when we are careful to avoid projections, we can share our perspective freely, and usually with little need to defend ourselves. Our energy is gifted in a gentler shape, and others do not feel compelled to defend against it. When we project however, it is more like shooting arrows at targets, and those targets may very well choose to answer in kind. I'd also like to point out that we are leaving behind a masculine dominated era. Naturally, as the balance shifts, the habituated masculine patterns will need to give some ground to allow the feminine patterns to enter into a dance of mutual harmony. It is easy for us to oppress what has long been oppressed whenever it pokes out a little bit, and call this equality. Naturally the "territory" inhabited by masculine patterns will not be easily surrendered - but unless we willingly invite balance, this rebalancing will not be as harmonious as it could be.

Thank you Brian. Always good to refresh ourselves with these reminders.... even when we think we don't need it.

I appreciate your softening of tone, opendao. Thank you. As for my opinion, the reasons are all found within the daodejing.

Like I said, I don't know what happened and can't make any judgments. I just hope that those who are able to control their "visits" are respectful and choose to visit with those who they have an established and understood relationship with. Given the nature of how spirituality works, the easy transparency provided those with spiritual skills allows for a lot of snooping. I had tea with someone once who had been making progress with her training, and every time I mentioned someone she would tell me about that person's posture and mood, unable to even control reaching out to scan the person. My next encounter with this person was very different - she had learned to control her skill, treated it as something sacred, and respected the privacy of others. Even though I was standing right in front of her, she asked me for my permission before scanning me. It is not like we need artificial boundaries to maintain some false sense of privacy. It is more to do with the reasons that people want to find things out about others, usually for personal gain and to make judgments. These reasons are unnecessary and contrived. Even in a teacher student relationship, intentional sharing is not necessary - the transmission is automatic. At these higher levels one would hope a higher level of virtuous conduct would be developed. But the stories shared on these forums indicate a very juvenile level of practice. Perhaps it is inevitable, as more and more develop spiritual skills. But I'd like to think more of us. To be clear, I'm not saying this has anything to do with opendao. I don't know, and am not interested in pointing fingers. Just seemed like a good opportunity to speak of this general issue, as it has been coming up regularly.

I think that works both ways. A while back I discovered that every escalation began with some minuscule little ripple that one person felt, bounced back to the other, the other bounced back to them, back and forth, at first neither truly noticing, but before long, escalation. Both parties feeling offended by the other. In cultivation I feel it especially important to take full responsibility, even when it seems rather evident we are not responsible. This is how karma is dissolved. It is unlikely we know how every little action we caused in the long distant past of lives we no longer recall will ripple back to us in the present. Even after we are 'enlightened' we still must remain calm before every storm. With silk reeling, we don't want to break the flow of qi - and when fighting with someone, the way we answer that persons actions in a seamless, flowing way, indicates how escalated the fight will become. Personally I prefer the type of fight where one person escalates, but the other does not, always leading that person to emptiness and never responding with force. This way, the escalated person always must choose to re-engage with force, and can always choose to stop. But when forceful blows are traded, it rarely ends until both parties are too exhausted to fight, or until one of them is hurt. And even then the fight has not resolved, and both still blame the other. Vengeance is not the way to peace. Acceptance is. It is true that one dances and flows according to how one's environment is shaped. And yet this largely is determined by what we are most sincerely attached to. Are we more sincerely attached to fighting with a bully, or dancing with the dao? If we have not other choice, then dance with the bully until another way appears, like Zhuangzi's cook. But you should be looking for nothing but emptiness in the bully, and the bully should find nothing but emptiness in you.

Liu Yiming, Cultivating the Tao, tl Pregadio: Which is just principle at the end of the chapter on the five phases. But in application, mutliple texts I refer to apply this principle to achieve the "reverted elixir", which is named for the way it is created - by taking the flow of the xiantian into houtian and reversing it so that the houtian returns to the xiantian. In any case, it would be nice for you to rest your opinion. You have made it very clear, and we appear to disagree.

I don't disagree with this at all. I'm just saying there is a connection between the post-celestial work and the pre-celestial work, and that post-celestial methods can benefit and may even be recommended for nourishing the pre-celestial. Here's a chapter titled Post Celestial Methods from Eva Wong's translation of daojiantan: The ten celestial stems are encoded within the twelve earthly branches; what is earthly can always transform into the celestial again, if we know the way. I may not know every way, but I'm not foolish enough to believe there is only one way. I'm content to search until I find what works for me, and let others do the same for themselves, offering what help I can along the way.