Daeluin

Well the militant thing I got from my last conversation with you, where you shared why you are like that. My apologies if I am projecting something onto you that you did not express yourself. On the other hand when you tell me what I'm doing, it is your projection onto me. I try to be very careful about what I say I know, and I am not trying to make any claims here, and am certainly not looking for your validation. I add clarity where I have clarity to add, nothing more. You seem to have a lot to say about who I am, what my practice is, what I am hiding from, etc, that I have not discussed here. I have not invited your critique, and do not intend to critique you. I was hoping to help quantumdragon gain insight from our past dialogue about your approach to de, and so avoid some unnecessary back and forth as has happened in other threads. As for the topic of visits, I don't know what actually happened, and have made no accusations: I am simply not surprised, for I know this is something that happens around here. Just in general I would hope others would have the respect to not visit without explicit invitations. Thanks.

Thank you for the elaboration. I can't say I am surprised. I know that my posting here has influenced my cultivation via the interaction with others, likely on several layers. Others have expressed and shared encounters as well. I can simply trust that we are being led to the encounters that will help us to grow in the ways that we need to, and that our sincerity will protect us from harm. I'm not a fan of absolute right or wrong views. I am a fan of investigating principle, but too much of this can create energetic imbalance. Metal should be balanced with Wood, or it can create stiffness. I feel the principle we've been discussing is important, for it may be the key differentiating the degree of which one is able to transform the physical body as well as the spiritual body. I have experienced many transformations, some perhaps on a higher level, but do not feel I have worked with my organs much, at least not directly. So I feel it is possible to follow a path that leads to a destination, but more difficult to determine what that destination will be (at least for my level of clarity), and that has caused me to go into this studying phase again, following the tug of my heart. I tend to feel that the destination we are led to when following our natural way will lead us to the right destination for us, and that this is likely different for everyone. Some of us may be best served by a more spiritual destination, others perhaps another go 'round, and others perhaps the root. I merely speculate, but the time I've spent here investigating principle has paid off, and the sense I had cautioning me from jumping in too strongly before is fading, and the path my heart resonates with has become more clear. I am feeling much more ready to jump in. I agree it would be refreshing and potentially beneficial to share more personal experiences here. I think the issue is the confusion this can lead to. Different methods can produce different results, and without proper clear descriptions one thing can be mistook for another. So it can be safer to simply lead others to follow principle, and use their grasp of principle to translate to growth in their own personal experience. That said, when I have a clear connection between my understanding of a principle and the feeling of a manifestation in the alchemical work, I feel it is safer to share an experience without the risk of misleading someone. But these are early days for me. I imagine more interesting conversations will unfold as we learn to better help each other.

quantumdragon, it sounds like you have experience and skill with this sort of thing - but are you clearly certain it was opendao and not another? And are you certain you were seeing all? I recall the chapter in Zhuangzi where the master shows the seer different parts of himself, and the seer gets caught up in what is seen, each time making a different pronouncement, as each time the master shows a different extraordinary vessel, perhaps. I don't mean to say I don't believe you, just that I've come to learn to be careful thinking that what I see is truly everything. In any case, the whole qigong vs neidan / prenatal vs postnatal thing tickles my sense that something is off. The Zhong Lu Chuan Dao Ji goes into quite some detail on working with the organs, and Wang Lipings book of methodology based on Ling Bao Bi Fa, Ling Bao Tong Zhi Neng Nei Gong Shu clearly emphasizes the practice of cycling the organ qi using the principles of the five elements. So... Liu Yiming says that the organs themselves are just sediments, and perhaps we could say this means to not work with the postnatal. And yet, Liu Yiming clearly and extensively details how the operation of the five phases can be used to transform the postnatal into the prenatal. For internal alchemy, it seems to paint a clear picture that by using the five phase operation of the organ qi, we can work towards bridging the gap between the postnatal and the prenatal, and leading the postnatal manifestations back to the prenatal. Certainly, to repair bamboo, use bamboo. But... that broken bamboo, resting upon the ground, decays, returning to the soil, and new bamboo uses those nutrients to grow. In this way the broken bamboo creates new bamboo. Denying the relationship between postnatal and prenatal, saying it can only work one way, saying we can only use the prenatal, seems to fly in the face of what we see happen in nature all the time. Death creates life, the old becomes new, again and again. It is nice to have fresh new minds join us here, and I hope you will not be scared off by opendao's militant attitude. You are not the first to find this lack of virtuous comportment odd for one as educated in these arts as he appears to be. The "neidan vs qigong" thread discussed these themes a bit, and another thread that landed in the pit. opendao explained to me that the reason for his militant attitude is related to the principles of wen and wu, which we briefly discussed here. Personally, if you ever find my spirit wandering about your home, I would like to appologize in advance. I've found that the more I get in my mind studying these things, the less I tend to cultivate, alas, and that leads to jing imbalances, past momentums, etc, etc. Eventually I would like the present moment to more consistently reflect the truth of who I am rather than the latest up or down, but alas I am not there quite yet.

Journey to the West might disagree with you. tl: Anthony C. Yu: But then, achieving power and flaunting it, heedless of the nature of balance, becomes trapped by his deeds: In any case.... we have those who study the dao, and their study oft includes fascination over the unfolding of the 10,000 things. And then we have those who cultivate the dao, and their progress sticks to what is most simple. Knowing things creates obstruction between being and non-being. Journey to the West is said to be a story like encoding of daoist internal alchemy, and Liu Yiming urges those who read it to treat it with the utmost of respect and reverence, calling it the most extraordinary daoist book of all time. That said, perhaps we can see this as a much more rich and complicated look back to the dao from a perspective buried deeply within the 10,000 things (where many of us find ourselves "beginning" from), and thus from this perspective, the detailings of karma are a natural facet. As ever, everything is relative, nothing is absolute. "Early Daoism", "Philisophical Taoism", "Allegorical Daoism", they are all different, yet all one. Attaching to only following what "early daoism" teaches, and yet being unable to understand how to fully dissolve the noise of one's contemporary predicament leaves one just as blocked as any other, even as they refuse to acknowledge the contemporary tools available for their use. Liu Yiming advises complete investigation of principle before embarking on the journey. Then one can release it all and return to what is simple. In the dance of the five elemental forces, the dao is found at the center, yet the center is difficult to find without understanding just how far the extremes of truth (the depths, water) and lies (the surface expressions, fire) have separated, just how vast the discrepancy between benevolence (wood) and understanding/righteousness (metal), that have been engraved in one's environs over time, and ingrained in one's self through one's contemporary upbringing. The concept of karma is simple enough to understand, and understanding it we can dissolve it, putting it into practice by simply following our original naturalness, and naturally dissolving the karmic patterns with enough sincerity to also dissolve the imbalance created by understanding what karma is in the first place.

Even as we begin to accept responsibility for our past actions, and place sincerity on harmonizing our ripples and flowing with the dao, it is also meaningful to accept that everything we are has been influenced by something else, and in that sense, by exposure to countless teachers. Thus the idea that one can be completely self-taught is somewhat egotistical.

It's funny... we have this: Placing the daodejing on the highest pedestal, even as the daodejing itself says that things placed up high can only be brought down. Even as it is placed high by others, it places itself low, and thus has no need to defend itself. The values it teaches of are simple, and yet each translator to work with it describes it so differently. It is one simple ancient text, unchanging at its root, yet continuously manifesting in new forms on the surface. Much can be learned from it, even as it recommends letting go of knowledge daily, emphasizing that what is simple is powerful, less is more. Neidan can have detailed recipes on the surface, but what is important is beneath the surface, where many of these detailed changes happen naturally under the right conditions as one is able to come into sync with the flow of the timings of the celestial mechanism.

These days we're pretty out of touch. But the more one is able to open to the flow of their own dao, the more they will begin to integrate with the timings of the celestial mechanism. We can study auspicious days marked in an almanac, but they aren't fixed in place - the fixed dates are always under the influence of other factors, changing their auspiciousness, and due to these influences normally non-auspicious days can become extra auspicious, and so on. We can study the intricate maths of this, another form of external seeking, but when we surrender into the flow of things, we sync up with the timing and naturally do things when they are most auspicious, as evidenced by unfolding synchronicity that is hard to believe at first. I believe all of these things we are discussing are very relevant to those new to the study of neidan. As SonOfTheGods said, Read between the lines. The dao exists between polarities, underneath the words that write of it, behind the manifestations of it, unchanging, yet never fixed in place.

Yes, they are both ways, and what is better depends on the natural timing of the celestial mechanism. We cannot say one thing is absolutely better than another. There is much talk of seeking a teacher, as though we should all study with the best teacher we can find by searching on the Internet. And then there is the saying that real teachers won't teach students who aren't destined to learn. And then there is the warning to avoid false teachers. Is this not misleading? How do we identify a true teacher? Can a true master be a true teacher for anyone, or is the best teacher the one that I am linked to somehow, and how do I find that teacher? Can a teacher who I am not resonant with create added questions and confusion upon the surface of reality? If I go through teacher after teacher, never quite finding the right one, am I gaining greater clarity, or creating greater confusion between the subtle conflicts in how each of these teachers describes the great way from their different perspectives? All of this is related to external seeking, and self-perpetuates an emphasis on the external. I've met people who have gone from master to master, they are called spiritual tourists, and they have trouble getting deep enough internally because they are never able to commit. And I've met people who are committed to one particular teacher or school, but have long since become stagnant in their change, because they think it is enough to remain with the teacher and be a member of the school, letting drop sincere responsibility for their own growth, or simply refusing to change the way the teacher leads them at the higher, more subtle levels, because they think it doesn't apply to them due to their seniority or some such. I've come to see the subtle difference between students who are drawn to a school naturally through resonance with the teacher, and with students who are drawn to the school via surface level means. Those drawn to the school naturally are able to hear the teachings with much greater clarity, while those who think they know what they are looking for, because they came to <such-and-such-school> to learn <such-and-such-practice> only seem to hear part of the transmission. In an attempt to describe the principle that connects all of these things and thereby clear up this confusion, I am simply pointing prospective students to look inside, to follow the principles of the dao in their daily actions, and I am saying that the more sincerely one does this, the more one will integrate with the dao, change their destiny, and naturally find the right teachers for their own unique way. I would like to apologize if my way of expressing this has not come across clearly.

Let's not forget that Lu had already received a transmission from Zhong. But the rest is consistent with other stories I've heard, like in Seven Taoist Masters. There seems to be emphasis on one doing one's own work, but also in receiving a transmission from a teacher to help one discover one's blind spots and re-orient to the true center of the dao, and then one is able to complete the work on their own. If Lu had not received the heart to heart transmission from Zhong, the instructions found in Ling Bao Bi Fa would likely result in a different manifestation of the practice. I simply believe that one should start with sincere practice, and invite the dao to lead one to whatever is needed to find the dao. This way of inviting a teacher is a different operation than seeking for a teacher externally. One begins to change inside, and one's external environment changes as well. And then one's new roommate studies with a taiji master and invites you to try a class, or some other such synchronicity. But one has already committed to doing the work on one's own, and the teacher is just a guide post along the way.

Working backwards, finally I come to this: (Ziporyn): "In this, he applied wu wei." <- Doesn't sound like that to me. High virtue is not virtuous Therefore it has virtue Low virtue never loses virtue Therefore it has no virtue High virtue takes no contrived action And acts without agenda Low virtue takes contrived action And acts with agenda High benevolence takes contrived action And acts without agenda High righteousness takes contrived action And acts with agenda High etiquette takes contrived action And upon encountering no response Uses arms to pull others Therefore, the Tao is lost, and then virtue Virtue is lost, and then benevolence Benevolence is lost, and then righteousness Righteousness is lost, and then etiquette Those who have etiquette are a thin shell of loyalty and sincerity And the beginning of chaos Those with foreknowledge Are the flowers of the Tao And the beginning of ignorance Therefore the great person: Abides in substance, and does not dwell on the thin shell Abides in the real, and does not dwell on the flower Thus they discard that and take this Liu Yiming uses these virtues in a dance of the 5 phases to show that we should not emphasize one or the other, but that if we simply flow with using the right one at the right time, the center is keep and we deepen our integrity with the whole. As ever, when we attach to anything we restrict the flow of our true nature. When it comes to being morally virtuous... we need not look to our external environment to determine how to act, but instead simply look within to see the effects of the external environment upon our center, and then adjust so as to preserve our centered-ness. Even as we maintain inward centered-ness, externally we appear morally virtuous.

I just read the chapter on Robber Zhi here: http://ctext.org/zhuangzi/robber-zhi How incredibly fascinating! I've said before that Confucian Filial Piety seems to describe the importance of nurturing the web of life, yet is unfortunately biased to only the human web of life, thus containing contrivances. Robber Zhi seems to take this a bit further, seeing much of the society of man resting upon a foundation that powerful people build by stealing, killing, and carving out that which they want. Then people like Confucius preach of using virtue to effectively support this mountain of greed that has been carved out of nature. Robber Zhi, as a powerful person, is merely feeding his armies with meat found in nature, claiming no stake to any fame or fortune, content to roam across the whole. Found this one here: http://ctext.org/zhuangzi/cutting-open-satchels Essentially, when it comes to cultivating the internal, one learns to walk two roads, cultivating the inner and adapting harmoniously with the outer, so as to protect one's inner environment from mistreatment in the outer environment - this is application of superior virtue. But when it comes to choosing how one might make changes in the world, we can apply anything with inferior virtue. And if we see the construct of man as a cancer, or hurricane, brought about by the ego of men who are not good, then the practice of cutting away at this ego can also be applied by using the same application of highly skilled inferior virtue. But when things contend with each other, some win, some lose. And there is violence. How can it be said that one is good and the other is not good, if they all exercise violence? When we all cultivate the internal and follow ziran, we all nurture the whole.

Look without and even the internal will seek externally. Look within and even the external will come to help guide you home.

Nah it wasn't you. We just have particular flows through the changes when certain doors are opened. If nothing else this may have helped clarify some things and bring them closer to unity, which I think is something we all care about more than the rest.

So do you think Laozi and Buddha found the dao this way? Or is the dao that Buddha found not the eternal dao? I'm not sure how one could presume to know such things. Nor am I disagreeing - I'm saying that with sincerity, the right teachers will appear along one's way. That's how it was with me. Sometimes too many teachers appear, unasked for, and that is trouble too. I'm just pointing out that boxes contain contrivances that don't work for everyone, so saying that everyone must find the eternal dao in one way only is a form of slandering the eternal dao.

The Tao is forever undefined. Small though it is in the unformed state, it cannot be grasped. If kings and lords could harness it, The ten thousand things would naturally obey. Heaven and earth would come together And gentle rain fall. Men would need no more instruction and all things would take their course. Once the whole is divided, the parts need names. There are already enough names. One must know when to stop. Knowing when to stop averts trouble. Tao in the world is like a river flowing home to the sea. In internal alchemy, it is said we are born with plentiful energy, but that energy unfolds under pressure and doesn't yet know how to flow internally. Thus babies cry, children run around without knowing how to stop, and the energy finds ways to leak out and develops patterns of leaking out. Especially after the changes of puberty the energy finds ways to leak out, and in time we begin to slow down and recognize the increasing need to care for our health and replenish our energy. In internal alchemy, the stage of "doing" is associated with the cultivation of qi inside of one's self, so as to replenish this lost energy and return to a state of fullness. Once one is full again the operation of non-doing, wu-wei begins. With full energy one wants to spend it, one feels under pressure again like a child, has more difficulty in meditation, etc. The key is learning to seal the leaks so that the energy does not leak outside, and more importantly, to invite the internally energy to flow in cyclical patterns within the body. We can compare this to a body of water like the ocean, with its cycling currents that preserve internal health. The ocean does not deliberately send it's water away, but simply allows the dissipation of this energy off into the atmosphere where it will rain down, form rivers, and eventually return back to the ocean on its own, without the ocean doing anything to ensure this return. In this way the ocean is a good example of how ziran allows the operation of "action" within the process of wu-wei. By simply resting upon it's foundation, it allows itself to become one with all, to travel far, but is unattached and always returns to itself without using deliberate action (inferior de). Heaven and Earth are impartial They regard myriad things as straw dogs The sages are impartial They regard people as straw dogs The space between Heaven and Earth Is it not like a bellows? Empty, and yet never exhausted It moves, and produces more Too many words hasten failure Cannot compare to keeping to the void A bellows channels air to flow in one way only. The human lungs breathe air both in and out. The ocean simply rests upon gravity to allow the return of what is taken away - it does not pressurize itself to force water up into the land. In internal alchemy it is said that we nurture the yang breath, and withdraw the yin breath. In the I-Ching, it is described in symbols how yang fills up from the bottom: ䷗ ䷒ ䷊ ䷡ ䷪ ䷀, and when yang culminates, the seed of yin is born within and then yin rises from the bottom: ䷫ ䷠ ䷋ ䷓ ䷖ ䷁, and when yin culminates, the seed of yang is born within and the cycle continues. In human breathing we empty and fill and empty and fill, but in internal alchemy we learn to operate the flow of these hexagrams internally, so that when yang culminates we withdraw the yin response by allowing the energy to flow internally like the ocean currents. Really we just reverse the yin breath so that it does not arise from within, but operates from without, more like: ䷗ ䷒ ䷊ ䷡ ䷪ ䷀ ䷪ ䷡ ䷊ ䷒ ䷗ ䷁ - but please note this is a linear representation, and if you turn it upside down this: ䷪ ䷡ ䷊ ䷒ ䷗ ䷁ becomes the same as this: ䷫ ䷠ ䷋ ䷓ ䷖ ䷁. This is related to the principle of daoist reverse breathing, or embryo breathing. We return the breath to revolve around the original root of existence, and turn our back on the unfolding of existence into creation. Just like the ocean we allow our energy to waft away from the outside, without pushing it out from the inside, but just like the ocean that energy will eventually return. (Please be careful with attempting to change your breath in this way, and find proper instruction from an achieved one, or you can bring harm to yourself. These changes are detailed for our understanding of principle, but they should unfold naturally on their own over time as one simply maintains intention on returning to one's self and to the root of existence within.) Just like heaven and earth we are unminding, treating myriad things as "straw dogs", holding to the void which contains all things, empty yet never exhausted - this is all related to wu-wei.

The dao that has scriptures and dogma is not the eternal dao... People who use the phrase "Dao can't be transmitted without the scriptures, scriptures can't be understood without a teacher." would do well to understand just how much they are slandering the eternal dao by putting it in a box, hiding the key, and saying "dao can't be found unless..." Those who attempt to discover the eternal dao through the lens of the box called "neidan", or through the lens of another specific box, would do well to understand the nature of these boxes, and how they might have been designed for use. These days we have many people who attempt to take pieces from different boxes and put them together based on what feels right. Those who attach to particular boxes see the resulting confusion and are strict in their judgments. However, what is happening is merely a natural, organic manifestation of the celestial mechanism as we go through a period of time of unprecedented spiritual growth. People are changing inside, and they look around for answers, accepting what comes - this is all based on the principle of heavenly timing. We should also do well to remember that the encoded nature of the box called "neidan" has been somewhat decrypted recently for those who sincerely take the time to study the principles and put them into practice. Yes, people may take longer to discover the root this way, but we would do well to understand the nature of evolution, and to see how many new "boxes" are being created in regards to the art of spiritual development. Even incomplete these "boxes" will help to raise the overall level of spiritual awareness. As human kind in particular becomes more spiritually founded, we can expect to see many spiritual side-paths develop, much confusion, and also much clarity. Even as there will be many who do not discover the root right away, I believe there will develop the potential for many more to discover the eternal dao than before. Attaching to the existing boundaries of boxes is likely futile and creates separation. Instead, we have the potential to emphasize the principles these boxes depend upon, for these principles may be interpreted in many ways without losing their truths. As for the overall system known as "daoism", it has a history of adapting to change and merging with the existing paradigm. Even within the box called "neidan", I've read some very different interpretations of the principles involved from different classics, and believe even the delicate specifics of this system have room for evolution. That said, those who wish to find the root would do well to understand that learning to merge deeper with the root requires a sacrifice of ego, often coming in the form of an external instruction, be it from a master or the dao, that one's ego resists as being too paternalistic. This ego can be very helpful as well, guiding us cautiously and protecting us from teachers who would only bring us harm, but the time will come when we must surrender.

The way I understand it, our selfish nature is contrived, and not our real nature. It comes when we are not at peace, not resting upon the natural flow of our "way". This natural flow is via ziran, ziran IS the current we follow through wuwei. It is the current we rest upon, flowing one way because that way is more "self-so" than the other way. Self-so not in the sense that it satisfies our ego-nature, but satisfies our spirit's desire to remain in a peaceful state. In the same sense that ego-nature can be contrived, so can that which water rests upon. It is not really the water that is acting, it is the conditions the water finds itself placed within, and it remains at rest within these conditions even as it takes the blame for the destructive results. But these results are only caused by a different force that is in operation - part of the ego-nature of the planet. Sure ego nature can be viewed as "natural", but perhaps the important distinction to be made is that the concept of ziran allows for a middle ground in which allows for expression of one's own true nature without preventing the expression of the true nature of others. Expression of ego-nature is like inferior de; expression of true nature is like superior de.

I've seen a lot of contention arise over this concept, but haven't seen the principle explained well enough to get the point across to those for whom this is a completely foreign concept. When it comes down to it, the taoist cosmology adheres to set principles. These principles can unfold in infinite ways (different scriptures for different traditions), but if one follows the principles back to the root, the truth emerges. The trouble is, well, that we're all different, and we see things in different ways. There is a mountain, and we're all around it. When we look up at it, the mountain is there, but from countless different perspectives. For some of us the mountain is clearly distinguishable and when we set out to find it we discover a trail that is clearly marked and easy to follow. For others they set out to find the mountain and the trail is faint and difficult to follow. For some of us the mountain is hidden behind a hill and we can only be told of it. This doesn't mean the mountain is out of reach, it just means the direction is unclear, and greater work, greater sincerity must be cultivated in order to pave one's own unique trail through the woods behind the hill, sometimes traveling far and coming upon a hilltop clearing where the mountain appears, only further away than it did the last time. All this talk of teachers who only teach students with destiny is related to this. A teacher can easily share words of clarity, but here it gets tricky. The teachers words become a trail to follow, but often the student can't hear the truth in the words, misses what they are supposed to do, and attaches only to what makes sense to their level of understanding. The student thinks they have a trail to follow, without realizing it is an illusion, and they are content to follow this trail without doing the necessary work to really change inside enough for clarity to emerge. Some teachers will see this, and will do more work in an attempt to help the student find clarity - but the change that happens is then mostly due to the teacher's sincerity, not the student's. If the teacher is not committed to holding the students hand from beginning to end, then at some point the teacher will not be there right when the student takes a wrong turn and walks off a cliff because they don't know how to tell where the sure footing is. Thus I feel that more caring teachers will avoid making promises, and be careful to ensure their students are taking more care to carefully listen and be responsible for doing the work on their own, asking fewer questions of the teacher and focusing inwardly and letting the answer emerge from inside. The teacher may still guide, but does not force clarity to emerge, and is careful to balance the amount of sincerity and discipline provided with the amount of sincerity and discipline brought by the student. Some teachers will simply refuse to teach those who listen to the wrong things, not wishing to lead the student down the wrong path. Thus it is said it is hard to find a good teacher, but even harder to find a good student. When it comes to destiny, there are many factors, usually related to our pattern and role within the celestial mechanism, which is usually related to our past actions in previous existences. When I grew up I had the blessing to be taught how the ever moving momentum of the planets influences us in subtle ways. When two planets are on opposite sides of the earth, we feel the subtle tug of their spiritual and physical gravities. They are ever changing, and different configurations pull us in subtly different ways. Nothing more than subtle influences, but subtle influences add up over time. Aside from the planets, there are many other subtle changing influences, including our friends and the places where we live. These influences add up to something incredibly specific over time, something that we feel very uniquely, and is as much a part of who we are as our personality is. And different timings, different configurations of subtle influences, yield a more or less clear path to the mountain top. So it is not that only those with "destiny" - those with a clear view of the mountain top - who have the blessings to find a teacher and return to the mountain top. It is simply that those without a clear view will need that much more sincerity to find their way. But those who are able to truly do the work, able to listen to the messages, able to hear the karmic pattern, accept the responsibility for all that happens to them with humility, able to unwaveringly walk toward their goal even as they are able to surrender their ego enough to be able to listen to where their goal actually is with any clarity - these people will become that much stronger, and that much more likely to eventually find their way. There is an old Chinese saying I've read about - Where there is sincerity, the Way is open. When one places their sincerity on the dao, and when it is enough, the way will begin to open, teachers will appear, and one will accomplish their goals. Too, I think it is important to emphasize that the "dao" is the main teacher. When one learns to listen to the dao, and act with the dao, the dao opens. One's dao may lead one to a physical teacher, through whom one can listen to the dao, and learn to come closer to the dao. But also one's dao may lead on to other types of teachers - we should not underestimate the lessons that can be learned from the spiritual world, be they past masters, other highly evolved spirits, and from the whole example set by the celestial mechanism. Blessings to your way.

http://thedaobums.com/topic/18852-what-is-wu-wei/ http://thedaobums.com/topic/35336-wu-wei-meaning-non-selfish-action/ http://thedaobums.com/topic/34844-thoughts-on-wu-wei/ http://thedaobums.com/topic/37431-wu-wei-effortless-action/ http://thedaobums.com/topic/26925-interpretations-of-wu-wei/ http://thedaobums.com/topic/27640-some-thoughts-on-wu-wei/ http://thedaobums.com/topic/17916-how-is-wu-wei-different-from-laziness/ http://thedaobums.com/topic/38032-highest-most-pure-state-of-wei-wu-wei/ http://thedaobums.com/topic/19627-etymology-of-wu-wei/ http://thedaobums.com/topic/20025-wu-wei/ http://thedaobums.com/topic/28673-wu-wei-non-decisions-not-weighing-no-pun-intended-options/ http://thedaobums.com/topic/25003-wei-wu-wei-paradox-unraveled/ http://thedaobums.com/topic/9067-questions-about-wu-wei/ http://thedaobums.com/topic/9086-how-do-you-personally-employ-wu-wei-non-action-in-daily-life/

Just for perspective... lots of important points relative to this conversation in this excerpt. Ni Hua Ching's after-commentary on hexagram 45, Tsui, Congregation / Gathering the Essence (lake over earth), from The Book of Changes and the Unchanging Truth:

To the parting of the clouds, the clearing of the fog of the mind through embrace of the depths of emptiness.

Seems similar to "Know the white, keep to the black." The secret to freedom is that once you have reclaimed the whole, the true, you don't go projecting it back out into the world, but you keep it hidden and safe. You flow along with the world, adapting to circumstances without the need to change anything. This is knowing the white, but keeping to the black. The white also represents metal, the black, water. Metal is also associated with heavenly qi, and with the middle line of Kan. Once the spiritual embryo has returned to the lair of energy, we have the Metal hidden within the Water. The two outer lines of Kan can represent the black that conceals the white, and can be used as a vehicle to flow with, even as the white remains hidden within. Of course this is just a simplification. Paradoxical, as this sounds like not being able to make any deliberate choices. And yet, one does not need to make choices, one simply flows to what resonates, flows away from what does not, just as Zhuangzi's butcher slows down when approaching a knot of muscle, empties himself, find the invisible gaps in the seemingly impassible, and passes through without needing to use any force. Mao and you represent sunrise and sunset, or, more importantly, any times when yang begins to overcome yin, and when yin begins to overcome yang.

Probably not pure daoist theory, but I do run into a lot of texts talking about various neidan achievements getting your name listed in the book of immortals, removed from the book of life and death, etc, as though there are actual judiciaries running these things... seems a bit contrived, but funny thing is it could be possible that the spiritual hirearchy has actually extended this far. But in that case where did this hirearchy come from? Originally I imagine everything functioned just fine on its own based on natural principles... no need for a Jade Emperor to run things.

As I understand this, "pure tao philosophy" is focused on returning to dao, to being whole and real, flowing through time and life like water returning to the ocean from the mountains. When the water is non-attached, the return is that much quicker. When the water is attached, it slows, gets mixed with sediment, and may take much longer to return. Knowledge is endless, but our lives have limits. So part of returning to dao is a surrender to the journey without getting caught up by side paths. Those who know, don't speak; those who speak, don't know. When we surrender to the tao, we are one with all knowledge. When we express this knowledge as words and concepts, it is ever incomplete, even as our expression is a use of inferior power. The heart knows the way through the karmic web. All we need to do is follow the heart back to the mysterious center. If we get caught up in the science of karma, it is more likely this knowledge will be used by the ego to help determine the best way to unravel the karma, getting all caught up in what is right or wrong, and will take that much longer to surrender. Not sure if this is what soaring crane meant though.

I think the idea is to balance the mix of "fire" and "water". You want enough focus to create transformation, but you don't want to burn things up. And you want to allow time for enough energy to be replenished, but too much can cause an overly 'wet' environment. This is sorta like mixing the conscious and subconscious minds, so while you want your full focus turned within and settling down, you don't want to be like a laser beam, you want to relax into it, dissolve the ego, surrender your ego, feel it melt away into your true whole self. This is something that takes time. It may also be important to note that different people have different energetic imbalances. Some are much more fire like, with incredible natural mental ferocity, and these people should take care to not use too much fire, as they likely have less water to work with and can more easily create too dry of an environment. On the other hand, some people don't have as much of a firey consciousness, might think a little slower, but have an abundance of water, have an easier time cultivating wisdom, and might need to work harder to create and focus enough strength of consciousness down to the lower dan tien to avoid an overly wet environment. Over time, and with self reflection, one can come to greater clarity on their own unique balances. The goal is to bring what is imbalanced and separate into what is fully balanced and whole.