Daeluin

If that works for you, great! Best of luck on your way. For me, too much logic holds me back from stepping into the flow. The truth lies between the lines - place a finger on something and you've lost the heart of things. The teachers I've been led to teach in subtle ways to help guide one to to this heart, without getting trapped by the mind. I'm glad we all have our own ways.

Only approaching from logic cuts of the connection to the whole. We can easily see this simply in how scientific methods can't explain or validate qi and spitituality. They're getting closer, but can't quite understand that to really connect to the whole, you can't remain attached to who you think you are, what you think you know. If you want to become a scientist, great, follow the path of logic. But if you want to become a master - if you want to enter the gate of life and death and see your true self in the seven suns - if you want to connect your true center to the center of all, if you want to return to the dao - then you need to kill your ego and all the logical things it thinks it knows. Your soul should not be owned by your egoic attachments. That said, extreme changes can result in a momentum where one flips back and forth between extremes, and that doesn't help either. So a logical approach to surrender, using gradual progress, is what I would advise. Some people like diving into the water all at once, they find it refreshing. Others prefer to slip in gradually, seamlessly. Follow your own way.

Oh, for sure, it could be just as you say. But everything in the bio speaks of his training to only use power in deep and sincere connection to dao. Perhaps this is just a lie to gain attention and money? Perhaps the story of Wang Liping giving all his earnings to his masters even after they refused the gift was also a falsehood. Believe what you will, anything is possible.... but trust your heart. Often when we ask the heart, it is is the ego that answers. Be clear on where your answers come from. And remember: the ego is simply afraid of change; when we allow ourselves to dissolve the ego, allow ourselves to grow and change, we find that much of what the ego warned us against was only to prevent its own death.

As I understand it (and I probably don't), China considers him a national treasure, meaning, they own the rights to what he does and who he does it with - they have to approve of the seminars first - and he can't really have much of a say as to things like price, and doesn't get all the money, but gets paid. Or something like that - when he does seminars, this is in part paying his dues to his country, just like any other citizen. So if he isn't getting all that money, how is this a scheme? There's a thread in these forums that discusses this in more detail, somewhere...

For everything that is built up, someone is waiting to tear it down. Hence LaoZi urging us to be as water, ever humble. Hence ZhuangZi pointing out how the tree that becomes old is the one that appears useless to all who appear seeking value in it. Much can be done without having a name to attach it to.

Leaving us with decades of confused dogma that has reshaped the face of the world. When power is demonstrated so clearly that someone builds up a godly reputation, all types become drawn to that power, and many will attempt to take it for themselves. The truth becomes buried, and those who seek the teachings of the lost master only find the lies, and the misinformation is disseminated for centuries because of the power contained within that original seed. So masters be warned - take care with what you build up, for who knows what will be left behind.

Allowing some students to interview you and publish a bio isn't the same as writing an autobiography. The instruction manual he wrote is about practices, not abilities. And all the stories of abilities I've encountered are directly related to teaching his students, and helping his students. My favorite is when he asked people not to record a seminar and they did anyway, only to find their tapes blank. They come to him to complain about their broken equipment, and he shows that it works just fine. Some ability, that... I think we'd all do well to remember the idea of superior power and inferior power. Any power that is used intentionally with some contrived purpose is inferior, so I'd think twice about studying under anyone who is easily aroused into showing off. Those who know, don't speak, those who speak, don't know. MooNiNite, sounds to me like you want to go but are annoyed at the price. That's a lot of money, but on par with many vacation retreats (albeit with those you get room and board). With such a high reputation, and with China setting the price, it isn't surprising. People are lucky to have him come to the USA. Personally I think people would gain more long term benefit from studying regularly with someone, but everyone has their own path. If he was that much of an idol to you then perhaps you're just struggling with the need to let go.

So we have a master who's bio paints a picture of someone exceedingly humble yet exceedingly effective at reshaping the spiritual involvement of the masses. My sense is that it is his destiny to have such a profound effect upon the world, and I haven't seen how he has any particular motive or intention to do anything but help others gain deeper connection to the dao. His bio clearly communicates that his masters believe him to be someone who is destined to broaden the exposure of their lineage. Trouble is, his influence appears to be so powerful that those who interact with his field have very extreme expeinces. Those who are unprepared may not know what they are in for, and those who are already on their own way might sense something that scares them away, rightfuly so! So to me, much of the drama, reputation, etc surrounding this master is related more to the people who connect with him than with the person himself. We would be wise to simply see it for what it is without projecting judgments and continuing the spread of confusion. Then people who resonate can benefit and people who don't simply go their own way.

As for abilities, have you read his bio? Plenty in there that resonates with me. And plenty of stories floating around. As for $$$$, remember that China considers him a national artifact of some sort, and so they set the price, not him. In the bio, he is described as continuing to live in the 2 room house with his parents, and with nothing but a stamp collection in terms of added posessions (granted that was long ago now). If you don't want to believe, don't believe. In my opinion he isn't trying to talk himself up in any way, he simply works to help others attain the dao.

Certainly you know many who are oblivious to some aspect of spirituality or the other. It's all in your head they'll say, aint nothing to see there. Well that's because they can't see what they can't see. Same principle applies further up - there are many who can see, and believe they can see everything! And maybe they aren't even judging, they are simply receiving. But Liu Yiming says Spirits and Milfoil don't really know anything about true connection to the tao. They just know about the spiritual side of things. So how do we know if your friend has eyes to see the deepest truths? If some master or the other has gone beyond the root of life and death, naturally they'd appear much as nothing of note.... which is pretty much the point of daoist achievements. Zhuangzi, 7e, translation: Brook Ziporyn:

Too, we must remember that only we can accept that embrace - if we are closed off to it, that is our choice, but it is always there, always welcoming. Everything we seek for externally, that ideal mate, exists within, and is only hidden by our ego. When we surrender and dissolve our "self", so that we are open, then turn back around and embrace what lies in our heart, our mysterious center, we find what we have been searching for. Even better, we find that through this embrace, we are connected to all.

Well said.... I think this begins to tap into what is happening beneath the surface. All in all I think it is a lesson (these days) for men to find greater restraint. Remember the principles of K'an and Li. When creative energy and receptive energy unite, their centers are drawn to exchange. ䷋ -> ䷿ The center of the creative energy is drawn into the receptive center. Leaving the receptive full and the creative empty, forming K'an (the pit) and Li (separated). This leaves the creative energy at the center of K'an in a position where it must always maintain its center to avoid flowing into a new home, a very delicate position that easily comes to loss. And Li in a position of always seeking what it has lost - often outside in others, rather than inside where K'an waits. We are constantly having our creative energies drawn into pits out in the world - in sexual alchemy a new being is born from this exchange. It is natural for the woman, who is to carry and fuel the growth of this new being, to receive the energy. Though there are practices too where the man takes the energy from the woman. I imagine the subtlety of this is lost to most, as it happens more beneath the surface. It is not wrong for our partners to receive this energy - it us up to us to be more discerning with what we give. And if we want to cultivate a more mutual exchange that results in dual cultivation, I imagine there are ways, but likely requires both participants to be on the same page. Otherwise simply let sex be about procreation. Non-sexual intimacy is also a good way to exchange energies that is more on the surface and results in less complicated repurcusions.

Tis an intersting idea. Huashan used to be like this. I feel it would be most important for it to integrate with nature, with the surrounding environment. The energy would being practiced should not simply be issolated in that one spot, but should be practiced in such a way that the work nurtures and empowers the health of the energy flows on the land surrounding the community. If nestled into the mountains, particular attention should be placed on how the energy flows through the ridges and valleys, such that all come to benefit from the healing potential of the daoist practices, forming an ecosystem whose many participants are all able to become stronger and more supportive of the health of the whole. If nestled into a city, the same principles apply, but the participants now have some interesting social kung-fu to learn. Humans are very attachment an expectation oriented, so whatever is done that has power should be carefully hidden in plain sight, and energy work oriented toward balancing what imbalances are generated by the inhabitants. Classes for beginning qi-gong might be very exposed, as might simple classes on philosophy, helping to lead the inhabitants toward emptiness and healing. The participants might learn to simply walk through the city balancing energy simply through maintaining their own center, without deliberately making any changes to the environment, simply following the course that flows best to them, and coming to learn how this approach results in much greater, all encompassing balancing and integration than conscious directional focusing. But naturally there would be many approaches to living within and balancing energy within a city. If the city begins to change due to the presence of the community, care is needed to recognize this and discern if these changes are sustainable, as the city might begin to draw people in from far away and begin to change more rapidly as outsiders attempt to build upon and leverage the balanced energies nurtured by the community, requiring changes within the structure of the community itself, even as it remains invisible to recognition from the city itself. But as students become adepts, in either situation, it is natural for them to wander, dispersing what is true to what desires greater balance. To keep all contained within a small community is likely unnatural. There are many ways... these are just some musings I've had.

I started playing this weird game recently. Whatever it is on the surface... I'll let you decide. But beneath the surface, I've found myself exploring the city I live in on bike a whole lot more, and discovering little murals and historical signs I never managed to take notice of before. More than simply visiting these murals, the game has turned them into places I care for in other ways, and has cultivated a desire to find the hidden spots around the county that I'm not aware of, that others have identified. There's the game layer, but really the game is just a fun excuse to explore and develop fondness for my town. If you like exploring and live in a place where walking or biking would be a safe means of transportation/exploration, this could be a fun family game, as everyone can share in the fun. And it can be pretty social too, as indevitably you'll run into others who play... enjoy!

Perfection is interesting. I like to nurture people to increase their acceptance and trust, of themselves and of their environment. But what does that really mean? Should we just stay in bed the next time we wake up and accept and trust, without moving? No, that's not really what I mean... Perfection might be at the opposite end of the spectrum. I see it as a type of arousing energy into movement, gathering it, shaping it, flowing with it, improving it, refining it, until it achieves ignition, creation. Out in the wild, starting a fire by natural means is no easy task - first one takes the right combination of resources, brings them together and with persitance and patience is able to shape a single spark into a sustained flame. This is like striving for perfection - one perseveres, trying again and again and again until that source of heat transforms. But if one is constantly working, constantly striving, constantly arousing energy into motion and burning it, well, that isn't perfection either. Eventually everything would burn up. Hence the importance of understanding balance. The cycle of five elements is subtle, deep, profound. We have a source of energy, and we arouse it into motion, and shape it into something that has the potential to transform into emotion, feeling, bliss.... but if we allow this bliss to simply scatter, we lose it, so we need to understand how to receive it back inside, fully accept and allow it to settle without judgment or bias, to return, to condense, and come back to replenish the source from whence it came, so that it may begin again. And holding it all together, so that one phase within this cycle does not dominate, leaving no room for the others, is the center, is sincerity, is integrity - that which integrates all within the whole. When dominated by feelings of the need for action, for creation, for striving, for accomplishment - often we would do well to be mindful of the return. When slow, sluggish, lazy, unmotivated - often we would do well to remind ourselves to strive, to reach for a goal, and to accomplish it. And, mysteriously, as we come to balance the extremes of each of these, we find that they merge into something that is all at once - preserved, yet active, burning, yet still.

giving and receiving are one

Stillness. Stillness within movement. Young ones have such great energy that unfolds and expands, forcing growth and evolution that, in our society results in a near constant running and running that never ends. If young ones could have role models of energetic stillness, stable fields present where they could come to still their restless energies, perhaps the resulting peace would yield less violent pressures; more refined channels for growth. And by extension, people should understand cycles of growth. People should inherently understand that for every growth there should be a matching retreat, a matching period of patient acceptance. That for every intensely active phase of expression, there should be a matching phase of stillness. When we learn to become aware of this seamless flow of still-potential into growth, into expression, into returning-acceptance, back into storing up potential and stillness.... we also become aware of how to connect to and facilitate this flow, and are able to identify when the flow is NOT balanced, so we can make adjustments. In taiji it is emphasized to avoid breaking the flow of energy. But in real life we sleep, then immediately become awake and active; we are on or off, with little awareness of gradually flowing between these changes. I am curious how a youthful generation with deep embodiment of cyclical flow might change the world.

What feels right to you? What feels balanced? It is interesting how we can know things strongly, but then fall into the trap of allowing fear to arise, even though that fear will hold us back from what we seek. Similarly, the idea of amassing something up also creates a separatist mentality - when one gains, others lose; to keep what one gains, one must defend from others, from self, etc. But this fear, and this separation, prevents one-ness. So, the Sage holds three things dear: Compassion - which nurtures openness, connection, harmony, and dissolves separation. Frugality - which dissolves attachment, encourages refinement. Not daring to be ahead of anything else - which prevents the awareness of progress from getting in the way of progress. Say we do a bunch of cultivation work, then take a break and look back at what we've cultivated. From an economic perspective, we can say that working produces income, and anything else is spending. When we spend, we exchange what we have cultivated for something else, and this can be valuable. At first it might seem worthwhile to look back and come to understand various experiences, but in time we might realize how every time we look back, the cultivation progress stops, and, that whatever we come to learn from our evaluations might seem valuable, but on the whole, is still removed from the truth. Replenishing energy is merely restoring ourselves to full health, what we had when we were born. Yes, most of us these days squander our energy wastefully, unknowingly. And we should see replenishment as a gift - one that can be repaid, the karma rebalanced. As one progresses with cultivation work, humility should naturally become stronger, as the ego becomes more and more dissolved. Thus naturally one will be led to be of service where-ever one is invited to service. The smile to the person passing one by, the loving acknowledgement of some flowers and trees, and all that exists in any moment, and the happiness to offer support to any who need it that one might encounter, as long as one feels in resonant with such support. If one feels unable to maintain their level of service, it is likely a sign that one needs to find a way to replenish, and perhaps to develop a better way of remaining replenished in the circumstance that might have been draining. In this way challenges allow us to grow, and often many of us are not blessed with the ability to chose to replenish before overcoming a challenge. From either side, it is merely about balance. And so, we come to follow our flow, using it to identify where we are leaking and where we need work, in the moment, without needing to stop the cultivation work in order to look back and examine ourselves. Often it is when we stop the work that the "product" bubbles up and wants to express in excess, and all that we come to learn and value is merely renewed egoic attachment, hindering the progress. So, to replenish is related to being of service, and being of service while being able to maintain one's center and health is related to one's learning and refining. As one is able to find more and more refined balance within this dance, one has no need of fears, for one is well on their way.

maybe, over at the new fivearts.info site? I don't know about Qi Men Du Jia specifically, but in my experience we already know the best time - it's the timing that invites us into balance. As long as we listen with open hearts, we'll get better and better at knowing when we're jumping the gun or dragging our heels. Study of the yijing is a fantastic way to develop a full spectrum approach to finding balance within change.

What is Power? What is Use of Power? What is Abuse of Power? Superior Power? Inferior Power? I invite Taomeow to co-own this thread.

All it takes to skew the scales of balance is a single spec of dust. Expansion meets contraction in equal parts. But oh! We expand and attach and when contraction calls the time we cling and cling, keeping what we chose. Scales imbalanced, one side claims, the other denied, all because human nature resists naturalness. But the whole is preeminent, the scales may be skewed and contrived only to slip surreptitiously upon a new scope of scaling where all becomes transformed. Balance this way, balance that way, undetermined, naturally unfolding between coarse and fine. Fine balance is precious, but most susceptible to specs of dust. When we presume to lean this way and that we tilt the scales and beckon the coarse. When we endeavor to remain balanced within the ever changing where ever we are, we cultivate integration and refinement. Refinement is not easy - integration must be unconditional within the whole spectrum of scopes; integrating within the paradigm of humanity while ignoring the paradigm of all earthly life is to support the invitation of coarseness pursued by humanity against the refined wholeness of all earthly life.

I attended some hidden classes with a shamanic master for a couple months. The sessions were long and full of constant talking from the master... it was a bit overwhelming. But one day the master shared something very interesting - that we shouldn't be listening with our minds, but with our hearts, to truly receive the transmision. I feel it is a type of intent based resonance; a vibration emanated by the master that holds a certain pattern and history, and we are learning to tap into it, much like parents and children. The "higher level" the master, the more subtle this transmission might be, and the more sincereity might be required on behalf of the student to access it. Emptiness is not something easily understood or felt, especially when it cannot be easily spoken of. A few classes and one will easilly miss it, but with sincerity and patience, it becomes much more apparent. There are many ways to prepare a student for solo practice, and I am coming to understand that patience and long term consistency are among the most important aspects: maintaining sincerity is key to high level progress. I've come to recognize a tendency to skip class at the same times every year, simply because I have a momentum related to doing so, a momentum that has nothing to do with my intent, but is simply indication of incompletion inherently wants to find an outlet; a leakage. It is nice that attenting class consistently has the added benefit of supporting stability of that familial-lineage as well. Lineage is simply the threads by which we are connected - as with our parents - the changes in our own energy influence the threads we are connected to several generations forward and backwards, so a teacher student relationship is a two way street. The stability and cultivation of the master influences their students, and vice versa - so it is only natural for a master to lead their students to a similar place of consistency and stability. My teacher does not insist that we come to class. Recently it was shared with us that those who are able to cultivate consistently on their own, breaking through their own hurdles, are very rare, and are often those who hold the potential to become master teachers. We can all only hope to do our best. Some of us will find help from teachers, and that does not mean we are tied to those teachers indefinitely. Sometimes people are so resistant to change, thinking everything is permanent. When we simply hold to sincerity, we grow, and we know when it is time to move on. Just like the topic of this thread - as our energy develops, the operation changes, and we simply need to listen to how it wants to change, and we can grow.

Yes - I've been taught that eyes open in the beginning is best. In my experience I feel this helps with turning the light around from the upper dan tien, and working on opening the third eye. When we close the eyes, we connect much more deeply to the internal, but often disengage the third eye. A daoist looks at nothing, but sees all. One method is to have the eyes half open, which helps bring awareness to the point between the eyebrows, and the connection between inner and outer there, but also avoids over-focusing on the outside, so the awareness can still "see" the internal. I find this non-focused, gentle looking with eyes open approach helps to acomplish this, but I am still a beginner. I get the feeling that as the third eye development becomes stronger, one can start to work more with the eyes closed, while keeping the third eye open. And yes, follow what feels most natural. Classroom settings are excellent opportunities to cultivate harmony between one's self and the outside world - always aim to be right in between those who move fast or slow around you, and learn to sense energy in all directions - all without disengaging from your internal awareness, and without allowing mental activity from others to lead to your own mental activity.

Remember to balance the extremes. Remember we all depend on a foundation for our existence. That foundation at its core is whatever sustains your life. For most of us it begins with food and shelter, and means working to pay for these things. Doesn't mean we own anything. Respect where you reside and what you eat - these things become parts of us. In time, through cultivation, our needs for food and shelter might become very small. We just listen to our needs, and listen to how they change, and there we are. I am working on living in a small house I've built on a friend's property (8x10'w/loft) and bicycling as only means of long distance transportation. I still work. I am trying to make this a gradual transition. In time perhaps I can depend upon even less. Right now this is where I need to be to balance all the different aspects of my life, including social ones, without burning any bridges. I could abandon all of it, but these bonds are part of my karmic journey - I am right where I need to be, if I just listen. In time, perhaps I will be able to depend upon less and less, gradually reshaping my foundation. Remember, extreme changes break apart the potential stability of a foundation. Often all we need to do is find stillness, centering ourselves in acceptance of all that is. In acceptance perhaps we realize we have much we do not need, and there is always time to let everything find a good home. It is not what we are on the outside, it is what we are becoming on the inside. Don't let the way the outside has been shaped distract from the work on the inside. Wield patience to maintain sincerity.

Should we only value what others value? The origin of all things might be called the highest level, but who was around to give it value? Should we declare our levels before speaking, or just respond from our true hearts? People tend to filter what they hear, grasping for what is sought, ignoring what isn't. I notice masters often lead questions to emptiness, and so guide the question seeking a specific answer to the place that doesn't have one... and yet this is where the truth is found.