Daeluin

One of the main purposes of horse stance is to learn to harness rooting power, get the qi to circulate from the lower dan-t'ien into the legs and feet, and then increase that power, which provides the foundation for any movements the upper body makes. As one progresses one learns to harness this power without needing to be low. As for forward torque, I'm not sure about that. If I hammer a post into the ground 20' or so, only leaving 3 feet sticking up, how much resistance to side-to-side motion will it have? It is common for masters to demonstrate rooting power and qi by standing in a neutral stance and asking their students to try to push them over. They aren't in a horse, just feet shoulder width apart on either side. Yet even multiple people working together can't move them. I know someone who was so sincere that he would do whatever his teacher taught him in any form. This did result in eventual knee issues, lesson learned. However, once there was a form that did just what you described, dropping into a split, perhaps to duck a strike and punch up into the groin. He'd never done it before, but when his teacher dropped down into the splits, bam, he went down into the splits. Next move was to immediately spring out of it back onto the feet. Bam, he did that immediately. That's sincerity for you.

I didn't mean anything specific. The principle of cultivating the internal here is to develop speed and circularity, which when applied at a high level have very few limitations. People who really develop skill to this level have little reason to use it for fighting. If I can move faster than the strike, then I can simply close in with horizontal power to where the weapon is awkward, where there is leverage. Circularity can be used to step in low while spinning into a twist while bending under a strike (that you are stepping into), even as you snake out a hidden strike, all one fluid change. I like the concept of training via dream meditation, which might be considered an advanced form of opponent visualization allowing for scenarios as realistic as one's mind is able to create, offering potential for greater exploration than physical energy expenditure allows. I prefer to speak of concepts rather than experience to avoid clashes arising when experiences lack resonance.

Just step toward their center - there's your range - and sway in whatever direction necessary to assist in evasion. And once the qi is circulating you can use it to pull you down a lot faster than gravity... can use the horizontal or vertical power as quickly as you'd like. Often people's root is their weakness - the neigong classic recommends always attacking for the root - so being low is very helpful.

In some ways these forums are a lineage that began with Michael.

Nice. Yes, that significantly helps getting lower without so much strain, even as you say it eliminates some of the structure. So it might be important to be mindful that over time one will want to lead toward having the feet parallel and the tailbone tucked, perhaps as the lower stance work helps get energy flowing into the legs and bubbling spring and mingmen become more active as part of one's movement. A common western mentality is to avoid gradual progress by taking short cuts and going to extremes, so it can be dangerous sharing advanced info where people might decide "oh I've half-hazardly practiced X for 3 months without feeling any inner progress and now I can advanced to practice Z," when they should be letting the inner work help the ego to dissolve and then listen to how the foundation of the energy is building and allowing for more advanced work to emerge naturally at the right time. Even when the energy is ample and we feel immortal and brazen, we let all that go, following the principle of flowing like water to the lowest point, always aware of the foundation we rest upon, always aware the need to refine, working toward greater unity with and guarding the whole of dao.

The chest needs to be open and empty, with shoulder-blades relaxed and directed downward, so the pelvis can sink down, and the sacrum can be tucked forward slightly, which then might lead toward leaning too far backward, so the energy needs to be flowing properly into the legs and feet to cycle the energy and deepen the root, holding you up and letting you relax. Or something like that. If the kidneys are depleted the energy won't flow through there right, and you don't want to force anything - it might help to raise up a bit and work on getting the energy to flow, or maybe work on slow, internal up and down motions and figure eight motions, to help dissolve the vessels and coax the energy into cyclical flow. Don't let the knees go past the toes, never force anything. Follow the principle of gradual progress and diligent practice, and over time the energy will guide you.

Such a public system is bound to have many people with different experiences. Many people I encounter seem to have strong fixed opinions on the system and teacher asked about here, and they often don't allow that systems and people change and evolve, and that different things work for different people. Often these opinions are based on materials published decades ago, without understanding how things have evolved since then. I haven't trained in this system, but I have had exposure to it and people who train with it, and I believe it can be really wonderful for those whose inner heart leads them to it. Follow where your inner heart leads you. Ultimately the more humility and sincerity you bring to your practice, the more you will progress, and the more your flow will draw you to the teachers you need over time.

I cut an onion in half last night and saw that.

Past traumas need to be dissolved to the root. We can track them down mentally through our history, day after day, never letting the trail go until we find their origin like a wild animal and face it down with the full intensity that originated it. Or we can dissolve them via qi gong, guiding our energy via whatever means to dissolve blockages, seal leaks and return to a harmonious inner flow. But as the heavenly winds blow, as the seasons revolve, as the planetary gravities shift, those blockages will want to return again and again, until enough time has past that the pattern has been dissolved from every perspective and can no longer return. It all comes down to maintaining inner sincerity. These traumas are encapsulated energies, and they have an origin. We can clear the surface encapsulations and feel cleared for a time, but as log as the seed remains, it will continue creating new encapsulations, like a cancer cell continuously mutating healthy cells to support it and make it grow bigger. Most of us have these to some degree. We do our work toward healing for a time, and then run into a period of time where we just want to have fun and let go of our sincerity for a little bit. Or when we cave to the pressures we find ourselves facing. Going out drinking for fun or for sadness can't hurt, can it? No, we can do anything we want, it is a matter of maintaining sincerity no matter what we do. Drinking is a great way to weaken our grasp on sincerity, even when we intend to hold onto it. Maintaining sincerity isn't about being overly serious either, as that will only create stiffness and imbalance. We do need to have fun, to lighten up what is heavy in our depths so that it does not stagnate. But sometimes social noise is too overwhelming for laughter to be anything but surface level, and going along with the surface flow leads to surrendering connection to our inner depths. So sometimes, in order to maintain sincerity, the best thing do to is get away from the noise that takes us away from ourselves. Go for a walk in the woods and be one with the body, let the mind settle into the body. Learn to eat time patiently and with equanimity. Equanimity does not mean sealing off from sensitivity, rather, it is the means by which one can handle the increased sensitivity that comes as one returns to being whole. Increased sensitivity requires increased refinement to avoid extremes. If choosing the path of facing the trauma down mentally, and tracking it down in battle, just be careful that the intensity required to clear the trauma more quickly does not create more trauma itself. Perhaps it is best to track things down patiently as time unfolds. Fighting creates and maintains polarity, but we want to dissolve the polarity, balance the extremes. The I Ching recommends balance and gradual progress. Extremes are what cause trauma. Extremes lead to more extremes; what goes up then comes down. Balance evens things out. You are not what you think you are in any moment; you are change itself. Don't look back down the long road of history with judgment - there is no right or wrong - simply discern and accept, and allow the increasing clarity to inform future momentum towards what better serves balance and wholeness. Be patient and see where change leads when guided thusly - this is how one finds and merges with the dao.

Where is dao? Where is dao not? Is it easier to find dao within noise, or to find dao in nature and return to noise invulnerable? Sometimes one, sometimes the other. If we chose to overcome our challenges from within noise, obstruction, distraction, all manner of uranian extremes of imbalance, we still must find dao from within, and can only use said extremes as catalyst. Regardless the environs, we must face ourselves sincerely and continuously without judgment but with total presence. If we do this in extremes, who can say if we find dao before becoming what we regret? Where ever we find ourselves, we need to be sincere and unwavering, as adaptable to the time and momentum. Not easy. Easy. Just be present and follow what serves, shedding what does not, ever getting closer to one's goal.

The Teachings of Immortals Chung and Lu (tl Eva Wong) goes into the different colors and waterwheels mentioned. I usually take reversing the five elements to refer to the refining process naturally created by the control cycle. Lots of info in this book, and I recommend studying it backwards and forwards until all the hidden meanings emerge. The same with all neidan books... I recommend having guidance from a teacher as well, otherwise one might be tempted to jump to mental conclusions regarding things which one hasn't had experience with and isn't able to comprehend. Wang Mu's Foundations and Liu Yiming's Cultivating the Tao are excellent companions for studying the theory here. Backwards and forwards, augmented with actual practice after emptying the mind.

Perhaps more of a shen based emphasis when flying, or a more fluid based emphasis when floating? What, after all, are you resting upon as your foundation? As one changes, the foundations one is limited to may also change, and one may rest their inner emptiness upon the vapor of clouds to soar about the sky. Zhuangzi speaks to this, but focuses on what might happen should one place their foundation upon the dao alone.

Oooh, and found an article with this tasty addition:

I've been reading up on the distinction between an anarch and an anarchist. Very interesting. All in all, I get the idea an anarch simply follows the law of two feet. The anarch may utilize the rules of whatever presiding authoritarian system, but does not presume to rule over others. Reminds me of a favorite saying, to oppose is to maintain. Simply the nature of polarity. In all of this, an anarch is very daoist. Just wanted to share, as I found this to be a stimulating idea.

Very beautiful and poignant, thank you.

Thanks, I've come across a similar transmission before, using the sun to refine one's aura, in connection with spiritual protection. I'd advise care be taken, as while some are able to work safely from the sun from the get-go, others might want to proceed gradually. The black hole at ones heart seems very similar to the concept of the mysterious pass in daoist internal alchemy. Also I wonder what role the earth plays in relation to sun work. Our own center of gravity is connected to that of earth, and that of earth to that of the sun.

Well said. On the whole, understanding is a process of expanding opening to allow greater connection. A process. The fixed-knowledge based approach can be helpful to some, but only if they are using it as an approach to freedom rather than to build a wall out of. On one hand we are encouraged to share understanding, to protect it from being controlled. On the other hand we are encouraged to hide secrets from those who would not use them out of a connection to tao. Too, some things require certain tuning of one's momentum that might take lifetimes to achieve, before they can be understood... which is all guided by destiny. So really people should focus on resolving their destiny, which will always lead them toward finer tuning, without needing to comparing their destiny to another's, or what they can understand vs what another can understand, which will only lead to contention over interpretation of truth, leading to new layers being created. To really get to the truth requires dissolving those layers, or transcending the trap of right vs wrong, i.e. the metal phase, i.e. the phase of the completion and return of the circle to its origin. It is easy to see how profound sharings can leave a deep imprint upon humanity, and how people yearn to attach to the origins of these changes by looking to the knowledge left behind for understanding. But attempted understanding of knowledge without connection will just lead one to re-interpret the parts one does not understand, and thus layers and layers will cover up the root, as per usual. Which is why I find more depth of truth in studying knowledge in classics rather than modern explanations. Sometimes the classics won't make any sense to me, but if I place my heart there and wait for connection to be made, as time unfolds clarity will come.

Yep, I've totally been in the shoes where customizations get in the way of upgrades. Delicate situation... but if the software is designed right, and/or the solution is implemented creatively, this can be minimized. Approval idea came from the blogging analogy - if we're treating these more like blogs than discussions, that makes sense. But if we want the flow of discussion present, perhaps a different solution would work. Even with an approval based direction it makes sense for the OP to have mod power over the thread, or at least an option to block specific members from additional submissions, to prevent deliberate spam abuse. Perhaps we can test out multiple solutions.

If, hypothetically, we could customize the code to avoid the various issues raised by the everyone-is-a-moderator solution, would that be better? Hypothetically, then would a particular option be more or less desirable? I hear what is being said about post-approval leading to tension created by delays. On the other hand, I like how this approach would intrinsically deal with many of the problems I can think of. Delays, yes... but people will need to get over that. Perhaps their post won't be approved. If they simply wait in hope forever, that's on them - they need to let go and accept whatever happens. And again this is an internal process, not as likely to result in blame projected onto the OP as getting their posts deleted and being banned from a thread. If I start to post in a thread, and I know the OP will need to approve the post, I'm going to take extra care with my wording. which seems to nurture the One Rule.

What if the OP simply had to approve posts?

Thanks for the elaboration of intent! To be clear I wasn't trying to take any particular stance, just exploring what comes to mind. My question to you was more along the lines of what the I Ching might've suggested... All in all I support this idea, am curious what will come of it, and I love the name. Aside from the emotional turbulence I mentioned earlier, I see trivial obstacles related to what can be blogged about... I imagine forum rules will still apply to discussions advocating topics that might put the forum as a whole at risk. Yet at the same time, the design of this concept will enable the discussion of things that would otherwise draw contention. What if some people wish to explore their personal experiences navigating various traumas? Certainly this blogging concept would engender the protection necessary for such a sensitive sharing, even as it might descend into layers of shadow interaction that might cause a lot of political pressures from those unable to really understand. I think this is a very noble concept, and could become a very powerful evolution of open communication, should it survive. So I look forward and see the obstacles that might quickly put pressure on the forum ministers, and I wonder how we might deal with things like this in order to protect and preserve the potential this concept holds.

As to boring.... ego or no ego, there is still ego... the more we dissolve our current paradigm, the more the past paradigms that inform the current become more apparent. Simply flowing with where they direct, and actively absorbing, feeling, and interacting with where that wind blows is part of what it means to be alive. Boring? Only if we run away...

Humility is so refreshing. Even when someone else does the work of taking us down a notch or two, the perspective granted feels so full of freedom. When we don't have much energy, when our momentum is blocked, etc, our ego finds it hard to express, and stillness is not such an obstacle. As our energy rebuilds we can feel ourselves being replenished without feeling overwhelmed. It is when we are replenished and full that our ego wants to go on a spending spree, using and conditioning all that we have stored up. But if instead of allowing ourselves to feel full, we seek what is finer... perhaps in the breath, listen to what is barely perceptible and breathe from there... and then as we connect to the operation of what is finer, we begin to realise how coarse and fundamental our perceived fullness really is, and rather than feeling like we have something to spend, we can stabilize our humility. Replacing any feeling of having something to spend with working to connect to what is ever more refined, we are able to progress from a foundation as humble as water, as unassailable as water; even as we build upon this foundation to the heights of refinement, nothing can touch it, unless we decide to stop. Eventually we are filled with emptiness, and at one with all.

OK, so I can see that the role of the mods is to guard unity... as best as possible, in any case. Naturally there are different levels of guarding unity. So while what is proposed here fragments unity, it allows those fragments the responsibility upholding their own interpretation of unity. This may indeed be necessary to nurture the specific environments required for certain concepts to grow to maturity. But where is a line drawn as to what concepts we allow to grow to maturity? Back to forum rules?

"Anarchy refers to a society, entity, group of persons or single person without recognition of authority." When I've participated in meetings that follow the principles of anarchy, there will certainly be different roles taken based on people's motives. But these motives are subordinant to the one-ness of the collective. If some motive reaches a point where it needs to employ obvious forcefulness in order to be expressed, then it begins to threaten the unity of the collective, and the collective will often simply listen and accept that expression for what it is, and move on without feeding it. Pretty much like we do already. So I suppose I'm a little confused, as to how what is being suggested is a form of anarchy... but I suppose there are many perspectives on what anarchy means in application. Taomeow, I'm curious what the changes suggest to you related to the structure you propose. Anything that might help it overcome the challenges?