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Everything posted by Daeluin
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If you stop practicing, will you slowly become reconditioned?
Daeluin replied to woodcarver's topic in Daoist Discussion
Changing the course of a river is a delicate thing. The way it has been flowing unfolds with a certain gravity, and patterns once established like to maintain and deepen. The path to the tao is perhaps one of returning to one's self to dissolve one's self, a grand internal balancing act, and maybe in some sense the avoidance of being controlled by external patterns, learning to not be trapped by external gravities. Along the way perhaps we become centered more in our own bodies and various effects of a healthy centered system manifest.... and in time these changes take on greater solidity and become more difficult to change, or so I read. .... but if we allow our intention to change, if things aren't fully anchored and aligned, they will ebb and flow with the cycles of change and unwind again towards external gravities. I've definitely felt this in my own practice. Sometimes the most hard earned changes will slowly unwind over the course of many months without adequate nurturance and recentering. I've felt myself losing my connection to certain qi flows, very gradually, until they're gone, all too subtly. In our rapid modern lives it is all too easy to play with extreme changes in momentum... and sometimes when you've allowed yourself to start descending the mountain you've been climbing, that momentum will take some serious effort to turn back around. Whenever we decide to analyze our progress we're also turning around, transforming accumulated emptiness into understanding. Work hard on accumulating and nurturing the unknown. -
Thanks! Though I'd replace "corrupted" with "conditioned". Conditioning implies adaptation to the environment, which may be good or bad, while corrupting has an overly negative connotation. The image of yang as energy and yin as the emptiness of time and space is very powerful. In my observations, when energy is present within time and space, both tend to become consumed.... but within nature I observe minimal consumption and great preservation of both energy and time and space, while in human paradigms I observe a tendency to use them both until they are gone repeatedly, oft coming to threaten the health of the systems which created the energy. Should human paradigms get better at preservation, we might come to better appreciate how these forces embrace and nourish each other when left to their own designs. When energy attempts isolation from time and space, it is imbalanced and expresses as forcefulness when unable to maintain the extreme pressure. But this forceful expression, the "masturbating yang," is also due to allowing weakness within the yin - lack of nurturance of the stillness of space and time. Can energy expressed thusly really be considered pure? When more appropriately embraced, the yang energy is firm but not inflexible, and is ever one with the yin of space and time. As pure energy moves through time and space, it adapts flexibly, allowing conditioning to operate on the surface, remaining firm on the inside, on every layer. Between Heaven and Earth, There seems to be a Bellows: It is empty, and yet it is inexhaustible; The more it works, the more comes out of it. No amount of words can fathom it: Better look for it within you. Wu, 5 Rivers and streams are born of the ocean All creation is born of Tao Just as all water flows back to become the ocean All creation flows back to become Tao. Star, 32
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Many people offer their recommendations for I Ching books here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/10646-best-book-dvds-on-i-ching/ Also: http://thetaobums.com/topic/24214-looking-for-a-book-that-explain-the-i-ching/
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holistic philosophy, inclusive practice
Daeluin replied to sillybearhappyhoneyeater's topic in Daoist Discussion
Thanks, I like that last sentence. Though understanding where we "need to go" may sometimes be tricky. Water follows the path of least resistance, always. Where water needs to go is ever without choice, while where humans need to go is oft managed by desire. Many of us cling to various desires and defend them at all cost when they flow into clashing scenarios. When it is hot, water evaporates and rises; when it is cold water condenses and falls. When flowing as a river, at times smooth, at times crashing from rock to rock between canyon walls or falling from heights and crashing thunderously below. When at sea, blowing with the winds, sometimes conditions creating powerful storms and mountainous waves, yet all through simply responding without motive to properly balance whatever conditions are present. Even when clashing, water is ever nourishing. The rapids and falls create incredible fields of refined qi. Storms are the communion between the land and the sea, two incredibly different paradigms. Storms bring great change to the edge between land and sea, leading those who live in these areas to adapt and evolve. To me this is a lesson in how to temper and refine our selves by treating whatever is in front of us as right. Just as water carries minerals and tiny life forms, our true selves are a blend of the various desires and needs we've identified with. These needs alter the composition and shape of us, and change how we flow through life. When we are challenged by life it sometimes feels as though we are being shattered apart and put back together, and sometimes we chose to let go of desires which we come to realize no longer serve our current path, and emerge from the clash with greater refinement. When we stumble into a situation we can tell will build into a storm, perhaps it is important to reflect on if the storm is brewing based on who we really are, or based from a desire we hold, like political affiliation. In the end it is up to us to decide what is important - for some taking political sides and participating in the resulting storms and refinement of political issues is readily justifiable. And yet the TTC also speaks of non-contention, of giving in early so as to slip past the dynamic where what was built up must be defended to avoid being brought down. As we shed the layers of desire and defence of desire, flowing like water we are led to ever greater refinement, the clashing situations stemming more from past life patterns, or manifesting as situations where our force of refinement is simply used as the situation calls for it, not arising from the defence of something within we find to be threatened, but simply the unfolding of conditions synchronistically resulting in a powerful unfolding of change; change that is unassailable and has nothing to defend, no concern for how its power reaches balance. Just as a hurricane rumbling to shore, happily dissipating and returning to harmonious balance. I suppose my point is the distinction of getting where you need to go either being the result of desire, leading to win or lose situations - or the result of acceptance, leading to situations of non-contrived refinement and return to greater balance. -
I've noticed this a bit in my own circles. This is the end of the metal season. The harvest is in. The crazy huge projects brought on by this fire horse year are coming to a close and bringing us release. Freedom. Reflection. And socialization. The past week has been a great release for many around me, and there is an increase in the light-heartedness and flirtation all around me. People are letting go of what held them back in some respects. In Western Astrology they say the first expression of an element (aries, taurus, gemini, cancer) is related to internalization, the second (leo, virgo, libra, scorpio) related to expression and sharing that element with others, and the third expression (sag, capricorn, aquarius, pisces) related to the universal integration of that element. So in Libra we have air (mental, social, balance, harmony, judgement) expressing and exchanging with others on the surface. People are being flirty, light-hearted and worrying less about stuff. And we're about to enter scorpio - the second expression of water: sharing emotions with others. This is when the libran flirtatiousness gets deep, crazy sex, make it or break it issues ensue as people try to navigate the fact that sharing an emotion with others invites the death and rebirth - transformation - of that emotion. Always fascinating when things decide to unfold.
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Ah, thanks for this. For a while I've seen how many layers the hexagrams operate within. More recently I've been mulling over how when Earth ☷ becomes more self-centered, transforms into Water ☵, transforming Heaven on Earth ䷋ into Fire on Water ䷿. This transformation is explained in-depth in Neidan - Water is K'an, the "abyss", or "the pit" - and describes the process by which what was originally open and receptive becomes self-aware and self-serving. I think this also describes the process of unfolding creation, in contrast to taoist reversal. Perhaps this can be seen in the tendency for a conversation to introduce tangents. In the beginning there is one subject, in discussion - the focus is on this one, and all of the 8 forces operate as the transformation of the discussion progresses. There is an element of openness here, but at some point one participant is likely to be triggered with the desire to transform the conversation into something related, but operating on a new layer. Often conversations will proceed from layer to layer, tangent to tangent, unless the participants take care to stay "on topic". In inner alchemy, much emphasis is placed on dissolving the ego and returning the separated "true yang" (the center line in ☵) back to it's rightful place in Heaven ☰ and bringing the "true yin" (the center line in ☲) back to it's rightful place in Earth ☷. Also no mistake that water rules desire and ambition, from which comes the impetus of creation. Water is associated with the numbers 1 and 6, correlating with the 6 lines of the I ching. Also no mistake - Earth controls Water - Integrity controls Desire. The key to staying "on topic" and ego-less-ness = integrity and sincerity. In these contexts, the concept of change as pouring water from one container to another makes a great deal of sense. Layer within layer, container to container, ad infinitum.
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Using the Wuxing as a model, the creation cycle can be seen as harmonious. When there is imbalance, the creation cycle can be used to regain balance without conflict.... say Wood is in excess, stimulating the creation of Fire will reduce the Wood without conflict. But if Wood is too attached to it's position and doesn't want to create more Fire, doesn't want to change.... then refining might be helpful in order to regain balance. Refining is the control cycle, and Metal controls Wood, Wood controls Earth. Control introduces pressure, and should be used carefully so as not to destroy the existing harmony. But when used appropriately, adding a little bit of pressure and conflict can really help to crack things open that were stagnant and out of balance, and allow what was already in harmony to operate within deeper layers. So... in this situation, it sounds like some refining took place. It was a minor bit of conflict in the midst of an otherwise harmonious relationship, and likely served to take the relationship to a deeper place. In the end perhaps she felt that her needs were heard and understood, and that helped her feel even closer to you, even as you, perhaps a little uncertain what direction things were going, were especially sensitive to listening to her needs and being supportive. Whatever you did to cause the upset was sorta like the controlling process acting upon her, and her need to discuss it was sorta like the controlling process acting upon you. "Is it bad to make someone cry?" It's all about appropriate balance in the moment. Sometimes little bits of conflict can help nurture greater balance, and when balance is needed this can be helpful, and can facilitate evolution to new layers. Naturally conflict can be used in the wrong way and end up creating greater imbalance as well. When deciding whether or not to say something that might hurt another person, ask yourself whether this will end up creating greater harmony, and whether it is an appropriate dosage. If too much pressure is added, sometimes people simply close off and disconnect. Because of this, the more we are able to share feedback with a nurturing and compassionate tone that will help to maintain or even increase the openness, the more work can be done.
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Curious. I wonder if this is related to the Chinese Zodiac - the 12 animal signs cycle every 12 years. When these 12 Earthly Branches are coupled with the 10 Heavenly Stems it is a study of the hexagenary cycle. But you mentioned the spirit moving in relation to vitality (jing?), so this could be a cycle following the more earthly influences.
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I'd read a similar review and snagged a copy, though I didn't know about the possible Liu I-ming influence - thanks for that.
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Why are so many individuals involved into Spirituality, with Third Eye open or not, countering all Negativity?
Daeluin replied to 4bsolute's topic in General Discussion
does not the path of acceptance too accept the path of denial? to me, affirming everything is about trusting it to be as it is, without expectation. thus it is not difficult to see the entirety of creation as straw dogs. working the bellows one floats easily through the crystallizations of existence. perhaps these musings on five are from a acceptance path perspective. -
Why are so many individuals involved into Spirituality, with Third Eye open or not, countering all Negativity?
Daeluin replied to 4bsolute's topic in General Discussion
ever pointing the way back to each other -
Why are so many individuals involved into Spirituality, with Third Eye open or not, countering all Negativity?
Daeluin replied to 4bsolute's topic in General Discussion
Well put, thank you. I've been mulling over Taoist cosmology a bit in relation to this. Water ☵ is associated with Fear and Calmness, and is also called K'an, the pit, in which Earth's ☷ receptivity transforms in such a way as to capture the middle yang line in Heaven ☰. Water is associated with the numbers 1 and 6. In taoist cosmology, the 5 are in harmony without distinction between self and other, inside and outside. But in 6 we have separation between self and other, gravity, a crystallization of forces to maintain this separation of self and other. Without a heat source, water remains in this crystallized state, preserved. This is resonant with fear and defensiveness. When we don't feel comfortable or nurtured by our environment, we crystallize and close off from being affected by change, so as to preserve our internal from damage. Even so we become brittle and easily broken when our jagged edges catch upon or hit things. With a heat source, water melts and merges with everything around it, and when heated even more becomes steam. This heat source, Fire ☲, provides the means for water to be courageous and harmonious and nurturing. All about balance. The deeper we root into Earth, the deeper our receptivity to Heaven. The Celestial is reached through the balanced unification of the Jing, Qi, Shen, not from the imbalanced cultivation of the spiritual. How many on a spiritual path cultivate the Fire ☲ and Heaven ☰, trying to get higher and higher without directing the Fire to melt their Ice and cleanse the hidden shadows and so allow whole body integration? I've met people who've attached so strongly to their achievements with Shen that they are scared to do anything to lose it, even as they are clearly imbalanced by it. I've been allowing my shadow to come up a bit more - apparently this Full Moon is a good time for this. Simply being present with the unfolding of long standing patterns which I know do not serve me, but still hold power, and without which I am not fully me. A couple nights ago I had an epiphany about past trauma and recognition of how much more deeply I was affected by it's grip than I had quite fully accepted. Really helped me to have greater compassion for my self and my process of healing. Sometimes we accept and forgive all too easily, without quite realizing how much we sacrifice. Often when we are young we have no experience to give perspective to such imbalances. -
Studying the wax and wane of the moon helps to see the fluidity and circularity and evenness in the changes. But these changes occur on every scale. In every breath, in every heart beat, in every day to day routine. Sometimes they're fluid and harmonious, but often there can be sudden jumps. In the breath 43 ䷪ would be at the end of the inhale, 44 ䷫ at the beginning of the exhale. But 43 can go straight into 44 without reaching 1 ䷀. The breath can turn around at any point - just like we can spend what we've been saving at any point. Often people don't breathe fully and so the imbalance initiates a yawn to capture that fullness of breath every so often. Any line in any hexagram can change to become any other hexagram. They have paths of least resistance, but in unique situations anything can happen. Especially in the world of technology we live in... so it can be interesting to uncover the differences and similarities between the changes of man and the changes of nature.
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In honor of continuing this wonderful sharing game... Who so ever correctly guesses (or comes closest to) the number between and including 0 and 72, shall receive this fantastic book in the mail. The number has been written down somewhere and subsequently forgotten. Let's let this roll till the morning of October 8th, 2014. The Uncharted Voyage Toward the Subtle Light is a profound and poignant discussion and Q&A on spirituality. It speaks of the Great Path of One Truth, and from a perspective of taoist principles, but without using specialized terminology much at all, aiming at the plain and simple truth shared by all paths. It is quite thorough, and many of my own long term questions related to spirituality found peace in this beautiful work. Each chapter ends with sage poetry loosely related to chapters of the Tao Te Ching. Feel free to share quotes of spiritual poignancy with your guesses!
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Gift of The Uncharted Voyage Toward the Subtle Light
Daeluin replied to Daeluin's topic in General Discussion
OK! Number was 28. Looks like Ish was the closest with 26. Congratulations Ish... I'll PM you for your addy. -
Power corrupts - Even spiritual leaders & enthusiasts
Daeluin replied to z00se's topic in General Discussion
In regards to spiritual leaders.... we have an energetic dynamic centering around one person. Zhuangzi warns of the loss of freedom which accompanies this, as well the resulting confusion arising from transmissions that are powerful but misunderstood, resulting in doctrines that are attached to for centuries. Some may turn back to uplift others, and do so powerfully affecting great healing, in return becoming the focal point of the powerfully energy of a following of people, which is subsequently turned back to affect greater healing, and so forth - great impeccability is needed in such situations, as elements of external corruption will ever be a knockin'. Anyways.... all back to the Vinegar Tasters. Even as many Taoists follow the path of reversal and preservation, Taoists also respect the process of Creation - Evolution - and corruption is just as vital to evolution as anything else. Power and the ensuing conditioning is the name of the game. -
Power corrupts - Even spiritual leaders & enthusiasts
Daeluin replied to z00se's topic in General Discussion
I've heard more than a few stories about small organizations or businesses that become successful and subsequently sell out their previous values. To me this simply follows the principles of taoist cosmology. People get together and feed energy into the creation of something. At first the people do a lot of work maintaining the creation, forming the structure, adapting it to better meet the external needs. But for the most part the creation continues to operate directly based upon the constant and continuous nurturing of the creators. This is similar to the energies of Heaven ☰ and Earth ☷ in a person who is young and largely unconditioned. As this person develops their ego and enters self-sustainability, the Earthly energy decides to attach to this identity and in so doing the center becomes a pit in which the center line from heaven falls into, and Earth becomes K'an (坎 pit) ☵, and Heaven, having separated from it's center line becomes Li (離 separation) ☲. In a person, this transformation comes when the person is undergoing puberty and entering adulthood - sufficiently attached to their identity to procreate and fend for themselves. In a organization or business it is no different. At some point the business stops being something that is nourished and changed at the sole discretion of it's original creators and becomes something with its own momentum, following its own rules and energetic dynamics. It is now something that has a center that is no longer easily reached and changed from the outside. Now, the people in charge of managing this center focus more on survivability than on ideology. I think a lot of people are frustrated when their favorite taco stand becomes a full blown restaurant with multiple locations, and no longer offers the same secret sauce, friendly chats with the owner, openness to feedback, etc. But from the perspective of the person behind the scenes, things have evolved. In the beginning they gave the business their all, never having any free time, and now with maturation they can set policies so that the business runs itself without them needing to be present or on call at every moment. This is vital to the self-sustainability of not only the business, but of the creator(s). Can power corrupt? Certainly - the I Ching shows the many ways conditioning can arise to shape the primordial energy. But there are also many examples of preservation, which follows the same principles. Whether more corrupt or more preserved, as time passes new rules apply. The yang-yin symbol describes this well. Lesser Yang enters, building the ideas, writing the blueprints, gathering the people, building the momentum, then Greater Yang arrives, centralizes the ideas, unifies the plans, amasses the funding... then it culminates with Lesser Yin and the blueprints are built, the people put to work, until Greater Yin arrives and things have stabilized and are no longer easy to change... but now something exists which is thus exposed to criticism as Lesser Yang arrives again, ideas for change are explored and possibly implemented, again and again, circumstances forever offering the choice to change how things are. Thus the wise only focus their sincerity within, building up nothing external that must be maintained. External projects may only exist as long as we nurture them, but we may nurture ourselves so as to yield to all and yet remain wholly preserved. When external projects must be nurtured, the best way to nurture them is so that they need little change, following standard best practices, adhering to common laws, and avoiding extremes. -
Lake ☱ represents the youngest daughter, whom, in family relationships, has a close connection with the father, Heaven ☰. In Hexagram 10 ䷉ we have Lake under Heaven - a potentially dangerous circumstance is described, however the innocence and openness of Lake is able to forge ahead without arousing the strong Heavenly presence into any forceful action - a delicate balance given the amount of yang in this hexagram. Here in 43 ䷪ we have the opposite, Heaven under Lake. Here the openness and innocence of Lake is at the very top, and with the support of heaven beneath is able to remove all conditioning (yin) and return to the fullness of the primordial (yang). Naturally as soon as the yang culminates, yin is invited, as in hexagram 44 ䷫, so this return to wholeness only maintains stability through preservation via non-doing. Lake ☱ signifies transformation - transformation that is only as deep as its stillness allows. The yin line at the top is supported by the strength of the two yang lines below and wants to give in to conditioning, but, in remaining empty slowly accumulates until this yin line becomes yang. Thus this return to yang wholeness is a passive transformation whereby one wards off conditioning forces, awaiting the proper timing for things to return to being whole. When the culmination of yang follows this course of stillness, the resulting wholeness is stable. However when 43 ䷪ gives way to desire, not only does the wholeness not stabilize, but the incoming force of conditioning in 44 ䷫ is that much stronger.
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In some ways I feel that science maps the lines while spirituality maps between (and before) the lines. Astrology that focuses on planetary movement describes the effects of the physical on the spiritual. Astrology focusing on qi patterns describes something more in between both, as qi is what arises when the physical and celestial mate. I find it curious how in Tropical Astrology Aries initiates upon the Equinox, while in Chinese Astrology (also seasonal based), Mao (rabbit) is centered around the Equinox. This way of perceiving the change in seasons was completely new to me, but now that I've been following it for a year, it makes a lot more sense. Fore and After-shadowing are very real dynamics seen everywhere in reality - the hour before sunrise is in polarity with the hour following the sunrise; both revolve around a common center and are one. The Autumnal Equinox ends Virgo and begins Libra, even while centered around Metal (rooster). This seasonal Metal signifies the harvest, and in turn has its own yang and yin. One happily coincides with the last half of Virgo - preparation and planning for the harvest, and the first half of Libra - gathering together of community to harmoniously reap the harvest. Next comes Dog - the Earth phase responsible for integrating and uniting the Fire and Metal of the previous seasons in preparation for Winter. Here the last half of Libra distributes the harvest and stores it, coming to balance, while the first half of Scorpio comes along and ensures all of the life and death necessities are taken care of before winter, etc. Zhongyongdaoist, any interest in discussing more about I Ching Astrology? I posted about it here. I'm slowly getting deeper, but sometimes I feel like I'm struggling with things that are probably answered in untranslated texts. There was a lot of information in the old fivearts.net forums, but I only found them a few months before that site retired. Hehe... time for new beginnings it seems!
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For a month or so I kept noticing these "Fire on the Mountain" fliers floating around downtown. Then one morning the creator of this micro-brew hot-sauce company wandered into my kitchen with a bottle. Good stuff. Think he was about to wander off to Colorado for a few months. Talk about Fire on the Mountain.....
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Profound. Every day is a new challenge.... and it is endless entertainment finding the right way to position my sails to best catch the new weather. Leaving the sales unchanged and waiting for the right wind to come along is boring and dangerous. Thanks for sharing this, I'm interesting in researching it a bit more.
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How do the Hexagrams transform from 1-64/ Sequence Theory
Daeluin replied to Uroboros's topic in Yijing
Oh, that is very nice. I will explore more deeply soon. First impression reminded me of the analemma, which is based on the wobble of the earth. And it goes into the 12 earthly branches, which depict the seasons as affected by the wobble of the earth. So I wonder, if then this sequence could be related to descriptions of unfolding change as influenced by this dynamic. -
Looking for Teacher Recommendations in the US/ East Coast/ Midwest
Daeluin replied to Uroboros's topic in General Discussion
Most accurate way to find the teacher you need is to ask your heart to guide you to them. Then surrender and let the process do its thing without any help other than sincerity. Good to have multiple places in mind. One thing will lead to another and you'll find yourself in the place you need to be. -
When the whole is divided, parts need names. Rather than focusing on the parts, focus on the whole. Then what need for names?
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How do the Hexagrams transform from 1-64/ Sequence Theory
Daeluin replied to Uroboros's topic in Yijing
This in bold is what I don't understand. I don't know why this order was chosen, and I haven't uncovered the full big picture this sequence represents. But as far as feeling the change described between 26 and 28, I can offer my perspective on the reasons. I think it comes down to what Uroboros noted - that the importance lies in the guas and their meanings. And especially the gua pairings. One inside, one outside, in combination - each with their unique energetic expressions naturally resulting in a balanced or imbalanced transformation into the dynamic of the next hexagram. Mountain over heaven represents a nurturance of energy through compression and stillness. This hexagram paints a pretty clear picture of the inner creative force being covered and compressed by the mountain. Heaven ☰ represents a culmination of yang, and when yang culminates, the seed of yin enters - wind ☴. But under the dynamic of Mountain over Heaven , Mountain ☶ should be sealing the energy of heaven so that it does not change. However the sealing energy of mountain can be likened to a volcano. The hot lava represents Heaven, sealed below. But increasingly the pressure of the hot lava grows, until the mountain can no longer seal it in. The top line in Mountain ☶ represents a choice to maintain pressure, to maintain stillness, or to allow the venting of the pressure. Thus when mountain releases the pressure, or when heaven pushes mountain beyond its limits, we have our transformation. Heaven becomes wind ☴, and mountain ☶ transforms to it's opposite, Lake ☱. Lake can represent the polarity of instant gratification and delayed gratification (maturation, ripening). Transformation comes to lake when it is still, even as at any time it may break that stillness and culminate as happiness. This is represented by the top line, which can either remain empty and transform to the Heavenly trigram, or the top line can accept the invitation to spend the energy and become a conditioning element. With Wind ☴ stirring up the stored heavenly energy from below, Lake is under a lot of pressure to remain still in order to preserve its integrity - and here the sealing operates through emptiness and non-action. So think about this. When 26 ䷙ transforms because too much pressure was built up, that means Heaven wasn't properly stilled under the mountain, and the Wind is likely to be somewhat strong and unruly, sorely testing Lake's ability to preserve it through emptiness and non-action and is rather likely to give in to the many requests to go a spending. However, if 26 has effectively condensed Heaven into a calm and quiet yet powerful state (say a pearl), then the transformation to emptiness may occur as mountain lets go of forcefulness and turns to emptiness - turning the light around and preserving the pearl. Here perhaps this might be a transformation to Hexagram 43 ䷪. Yet if we allow that wind to gently circulate the heavenly energy while cultivating emptiness and non-doing, the operation of 28 then leads to 30, ䷝, Fire, the clarification of inner and outer illumination. So that's how I reason it out. I don't think it is so much related to the lines, as it is to the combination of energies and way they might respond to different types of change, which the lines help to describe. The Wikipedia page has some great info on the King Wen sequence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Wen_sequence