Daeluin

From another perspective - what are the costs of being a human living in modern society? Food and shelter cost money. A teacher who dedicates them-self completely to their art, then must also do something that has value to others in order to pay for these things. Why should the art itself not be treated as something worthy of receiving payment for? Naturally there will be those who sell something that is not real. Naturally there will be those who sell something that they do not know very well. For these types of people, they will only make money if they are able to convince others of the value. The arts of the dao are subtle and not easily understood, which means it is easy for someone to tell believable stories. Aside from the intentional swindlers and con artists, there are other cases like this, where the moral gray area is not clear. When a student studies with a true teacher for many years, what they learn may not be much at all, but to them it might feel like quite a large part of their life. They may reach a point where they are not learning any more and leave. Their teacher might close the school. They may disagree with their teacher about what is right or wrong about a subtle point. Then they go on to teach others, and what they have to teach most certainly contains some truths - enough to convince others of its value - but how far can it lead? It might lead quite some ways in a clear fashion before there are questions that cannot be answered. It might be muddled from the beginning. A teacher like this may even be completely virtuous and dedicated, and simply have been unable to go very far. What their students receive may indeed have value, even without the capacity to take one very far. If it takes one any distance at all, is this not valuable? Perhaps the better question to keep in mind is related to where one wants to go. A western martial artist may study until getting a black belt, and go on to teach martial arts with full qualifications and recommendations from their teacher. This does not mean what they teach will be the same as what they learned, but they still possess the qualifications to be a teacher. Nor does this mean the teaching compares to something like internal martial arts in any way. And yet still something has been taught. Time has been spent by the teacher, with the student. This is time spent in a body that needs to pay for food and shelter. This teacher could be building something to sell for their next meal, but instead they are spending time with a student. Is this exchange of time not worth something in return? It has been mentioned earlier that payment can be viewed as a type of sincerity. I had a personal friend who taught miso making classes for free, because she believed in teaching for free. However she found that the people who signed up for her classes would frequently not show up, and people she spoke with weren't sure if a free class would be worth their time. After she started charging for her classes, more people began to sign up for the class, and more of them would show up to the class and study what she was teaching sincerely. There is a very strong sense in modern money-based societies that you get what you pay for. Universities cost much more than community colleges, but this does not always mean the quality of class is better at the university level. I once took a high level math course twice at the university level. The first class was taught by someone who didn't speak english fluently and half the class dropped out of it, including me. The second class was taught by a teacher's assistant, and again there was a language barrier. I finally ended up taking the same class at a community college and the teacher was easy to understand and very good at explaining difficult equations. The credit for this class transferred to the university level, even though it did not cost as much. In the end I had to take the class three times, and paid much more than I could have, but because I did not give up I was able to learn the material. Again this was a case where my money paid more for time than for the material, but I also ended up paying more in one case where there was a bigger reputation. When learning from a teacher who lives and charges based on a modern economic system, one should not ignore these principles. However it is difficult, as there are fewer standards to go by. It might be considered a blessing to learn taijiquan from someone who studied with a true lineage holder, but this does not mean their kungfu is the same quality as their teacher, or that one will gain indoor status. Often when there are few teachers of an art, the quality levels will be very different, regardless of the price. If one is dedicated to learning, they might consider themselves lucky to have found any teacher at all. As has been mentioned, effort is another factor, and it goes hand in hand with time. A teacher cannot do the work for the student. The student must put in the effort to listen and apply what the teacher is instructing. This is what leads to results. It is not what one does, but how one does it. Sloppy practicing doesn't build a strong foundation. A teacher may continue to teach such a student, and yet the student does not make progress. Is this the fault of the teacher or the student? In my school there are some advanced forms that I have not learned yet, and do not know if I ever will. I have learned that they are actually very simple to perform with the physical body, but to do so as to produce the energetic results they were designed for requires one's energy to be fairly advanced. It would be simple to teach the movements to anyone at all, but it would be somewhat pointless to do if their energetic components could not be accessed. Teaching something like this to someone who is not ready is how profound arts become lost. One doesn't become an indoor student because the teacher is playing favorites (this would be a warning sign). How could the teacher teach their highest, most mysterious arts to any random person? These days there are many forms like this that one may go to a seminar and learn to practice. These arts may be said to be extremely high level, and thus one may pay a premium to learn them. (Or feel like they are paying a premium because of travel expenses.) And perhaps these arts truly do contain something very mysterious and valuable. But is one truly able to learn how to perform this form to the highest level from a seminar? Probably not. And yet that does not mean those who teach forms like this are swindlers, not at all. If one is truly dedicated to their practice, perhaps the form will reveal its secrets over time. In the end, time and effort are the most important ingredients to progress. ---- All of this has been about teachers who charge money and work within the modern economic framework. Surely there exist those who do not need to depend upon food and shelter for their survival. And yet too these people probably do not pay for a classroom or advertising. Any students they take are likely connected by destiny - that is, they are people who naturally cross the path of the teacher without advertising, simply because like attracts like. We might say Wang Liping found his Longmenpai teachers in this fashion. There are also teachers who do not charge for other reasons. Dan Millman's teacher "Socrates" taught while he worked the night shift at a gas station, completely for free. But later it is revealed they are connected by blood. There are many qigong teachers who teach for free to promote healthy living. Sometimes these are medical practitioners or simply highly compassionate people. How much can a student ask of such a teacher, and how far will the teachings lead? It depends. Some may lead very far indeed. But this is not something one is assured of knowing from an ad, or even taking a single class. The best sign is that one's teacher might seem to be somewhat mysterious and subtle, and one feels a strong resonance with the class. But does one imagine that all who achieve the way come back to teach the full path to the way, even if they teach some of it? Then there are older times. Times before land was something one had to pay for. Times when one built one's shelter from trees right there. Times before vehicles to transport people and goods. Times when food needed to be procured from the land. Back then, a student might need to walk many hours to meet with their teacher. Yet again, the cost of time spent teaching a student is time not spent attending to the needs of one's home and body. For a student to be taught, is it not expected that there is some exchange? Perhaps this would be hauling a bucket of water from the well a mile away, or mending a broken wall or weeding a garden. These are all things the teacher would otherwise be doing. Is life in a monastery any different? Even though everyone is living together, there are still the requirements of body and home. It may be that the teacher, or monastery are a little bit off the beaten path, away from the bad energy of towns and cities - up on a mountain or in the woods, where the energy is better and there is more peace. And yet, even living a simple life, this means it is more difficult to acquire food and any work must be done by those present. In the end... is compensation for teaching really any different from anything else? And yet.... it has also been mentioned that spiritual guides can teach us. They do not need to support a physical body, and can only be found through destiny anyway. And even so, all of us have them, and they are here to teach us, for free, as soon as we are able to discern them.

If anyone is interested, postponing upgrade for now. Managed to trip the elusive CSS bug that so far hasn't been an issue. Tried three more upgrade sequences, attempting to remove whatever was triggering the bug. Tried the suggested tricks to get it working again. Nada.... Guessing we'll need to take the time to figure this one out rather than evading it.

What browser are you using? Have you tried something other than default, maybe chrome? I don't have an ipad, and googling didn't get me anywhere, but testing out a couple new browsers available on ipad might help you.

Being present in the moment, humble to what the moment calls for, creates virtue.

If humility is sought, how can it be used as a weapon? People are very sensitive - I cannot know what they may react to. When they do, I am happy to work at adapting so harmony can be made. Right and wrong are relative absolutes, so it can be a dance, and there is no position that cannot be yielded happily to one who desires it. A deer in the woods reacts before I can make a sound, but I am happy to keep my mouth shut.

Now I recognize your hostility. Perhaps it is merely language barrier. Very recently I learned something subtle.... The difference between: This is what I hear you say. and This is what I say you are. I can say you are hostile, or I can say your words cause me to feel attacked. In one case, I am calling you a name. In the other case, I am letting you know how your words made me feel. When someone calls me hostile, I might react with defensiveness. I might hear it as an attack. When someone says they feel attacked by me - they are not saying I attacked them - they are showing me how my words changed them. Is the difference clear? When someone cuts me, do I cut them back, or show them my wound?

The essence of hexagram 33 is composure. It is the use of stillness to compose strength, which inherently requires a withdrawal/retreat. When we take a moment to compose ourselves, we are withdrawing into stillness to find our center and gather our strength. This is not a phase of doing, but a phase of returning. Each line within this hexagram describes a different phase of change within the overall dynamic of composure. Lines 3, 4, and 6 are the changing lines in this reading. However this doesn't necessarily mean all of these are going to change at once to produce something new. It could be point out the active participants in this dynamic of composure. Line 3 is a phase of withdrawal and composure where one is very likely to be personally entangled and weak to the task of developing composure. Line 4 describes the phase of withdrawal where one is able to withdraw and compose one's energies at the precise moment there are forces working against one's composure, precisely because one has no personal entanglements in the way. However if one does not understand how to dissolve personal entanglements, it becomes the phase where instead of becoming inwardly composed through withdrawal, one still does the work to retreat, but uses adamance to push the outside away rather than dissolving within. Line 6 describes the phase where, without subduing energy, energy is subdued. This is the richness of composure where one is able to work without bounds. Each of these lines is active, but I wouldn't say they all point to hexagram 8. From what I've read of the situation, it seems line 3 is related to your friend discovering the need for composure and centering, and being tested in how they are able to apply this retreat in line 4. Perhaps this will indeed result in your friend finding a higher type of composure as described in line 6. Or maybe line 6 describes your own participation. In any case... the reading isn't completely clear, as I don't know what question was asked by the friend, or, because it came via a dream, if we should interpret this as your question or your friend's. Beyond specifics, there does seem to be plenty of clarity we can all benefit from: Learn to develop composure through better management of one's center. When elements arise to take us away from our center, learn how to compose ourselves, knowing that our personal attachments will make this more difficult, that we will have an easier time being composed and centered when we are able to release personal attachments in a timely fashion, else we risk the use of force to push things away when our center is being attacked.

As for the tangent, and suspicions.... being in the moment, doing what the moment calls for... what else is necessary? Getting lost in suspicions and speculations about... anything... may indeed develop a perspective upon it, but the perspective itself becomes an added complication before it helps us dissolve any other complications. Often we think this perspective is necessary, but is it? Often we spend most of our time chasing the development of such perspectives, and much less time appreciating things exactly as they are - all of the unknowns reveal themselves in the acceptance of the mystery.

Yeah, web browsers have gotten much better these days, and are sometimes able to know when you have filled in a text-area and fills it in again if the page reloads. Unfortunately, even though all the main web-browsers have versions written for mobile devices / tablets, those versions are different and aren't full-featured. So some of the features like auto-saving form content don't always work out the same way.

New server up, phase one of migration successful, but still testing things out. There are extensive rebuild tasks that work in the background, which hit a snag and led to a support request opened. Also testing permissions. v4 is a complete code rewrite, and this "upgrade" is about importing the old data into the new framework and then re-sculpting it to conform to how the new system operates. The upgrade itself will run about ~2 hours, after which the site will be live, even though many background process will continue to run to fully process things like post style formatting. During the first 24 hours there may appear to be issues related to what these background tasks haven't processed yet. After everything is fully processed we'll see if there are any issues which still need a resolution. Once the server upgrade testing is finished we'll post more about plans for upgrading the live version of the site.

Seems like Sean had a busy weekend. Waiting on instructions from him for the new server we'll need to upgrade to the latest iteration of v4. After that's setup, we should be good to launch. Will also be switching to all SSL with new server move. Rooster year banner is all set for new site, which has a slightly larger banner image now.

Zhong lu quan dao ji says: With reference to the use of jing in human reproduction, there are many theories. Let's just say that jing and blood interact in the most subtle and mysterious ways when our father and mother copulate. The zheng qi (true qi) is stored within the palace of pure yin (uterus), and the shen is kept in the place where yin and yang have not differentiated. In three hundred days the fetus will be mature, and in five thousand days the qi will be complete. A little later it goes on to describe zheng qi in more detail: Lead is the zheng qi of our father and mother. Originally joined together, these substances never leave each other. When they take on form, they are stored within the kidneys. The two kidneys work together to drive the qi upward. This qi is the qi of the yuan yang. Within this qi is water, which is called the one true water. Water rises together with qi. When qi stops moving, the water will also stop moving. When the qi leaks out, the water will also leak out. .... Based on this "interacting in subtle and mysterious ways", I'd say at 2:41 in the video, the two become one and enter the mysterious, and this is where and when the development of the yuan qi which fuels the process of the growth of the fetus for 300 days and child for 5000 days comes from. As for replenishing life after birth, after the connection to dao has been cut off... restore connection to dao.

When the whole is divided, parts need names. Names are ever separating us from the whole, best to keep things simple.

From chapter 13 of Liu Yiming's xiuzhen houbian, translated in Fabrizio Pregadio's Cultivating the Tao: Now, human beings are endowed with the precelestial Breath: they possess it since their birth, by virtue of their father's essence and their mother's blood. However, this Breath grows day after day and night after night, and when the Yang culminates, there is necessarily the Yin. The Yang in the Palace of Qian moves to the Palace of Kun . At that time, Qian becomes empty and turns into Li , and Kun becomes full and forms Kan . The reason why Li has this name [li = separated] is that it separates itself from its own Yang; and the reason why Kan has this name [kan = abyss/pit] is that it traps Li's reality. When the Yang is trapped within the Yin, it does not belong anymore to "me." This is why we speak of the "other house." The general idea, in modern terms, seems to be that during puberty our connection to precelestial is changed. Our reproductive organs, in order to perform, need to be able to connect new life to the precelestial, and thus perhaps we must develop a way to project the precelestial through our bodies into the seed of a new creation. I really appreciate how changing our perspective can shed new light on what was already considered illuminated. Peter Shea's perspective from my last post, regarding our connection to the precelestial being like the settings on a valve, seems to resonate with the perspective in the quote above. At least it does to me. But is it my responsibility to spell it out, or to correct conclusions which differ from my own? I am happy to share and discuss, and I am still working things out for myself, but please do not presume I am here to prove something. I do not enlighten those who are not eager to learn, nor arouse those who are not anxious to give an explanation themselves. If I have presented one corner of the square and they cannot come back to me with the other three, I should not go over the points again. ~ Confucius

For perspective, from Peter Shea's Alchemy of the Extraordinary (vessels):

The conclusion I got regarding the waidan pill, was that it was used to purify the body as described, pushing all toxins out through the pores, from the entirety of the body. This does seem an appropriate usage for such a toxic pill. I believe I read someone say here that the other main goal in this was to seal more of the spirit into the body, though I don't know specifics. The excerpt goes on to call this overall experience of the entire excerpt as one of the preliminary stages. I've heard others make similar criticisms, but to me it seems strange to make judgments on the practices in a story written for lay people. To say what is written about is not neidan may indeed be accurate, but to then conclude that Wang Liping and Longmen Pai do not practice neidan does not follow logic. The same holds for the published practice manual, which Wang Liping notes is the first in a series. People judge its contents as though they are the entire system, often without even having attended the seminars, let alone tested the system to see where sincere hard work under its teachers guidance will lead. Not that there is anything wrong with this - it is a given that reality is ever being disguised.

Well, it sounds like you have what is clear to you, and what works for you. I'm glad for this.

Thank you very much for this sharing. Liu Yiming in his xiuzhen houbian shares some ideas concerning the precelestial and postcelestial xing and ming. In terms of the ming, he says the postcelestial ming is the destiny granted by heaven, while the precelestial ming is the breath of dao - the metal hidden within water. If the water is worked with without extracting the true yang within it, then yes this would seem to be a postcelestial practice, I agree. The key seems to be in extraction - it feels to me like the re-creation you are speaking of is the work to extract it after it is replenished. I don't mean to split hairs with you, it seems we are more or less agreeing aside from terminology. The idea is that the precelestial jing emerges at mingmen to become the postcelestial jing - they are connected. From here, the postcelestial jing may fuel the reproductive areas, but otherwise transforms to yuan qi to fuel the organ systems. So when one drinks too much alcohol and taxes the liver qi, the liver qi is still dependent on being refueled by the qi that comes from the area of the kidneys, as is the whole organ system. So drinking alcohol also drains the jing, as does smoking pot, drinking coffee, etc. This dependency may be lessened by breathing air, consuming food, and doing qigong, but largely it is the yuan qi that comes from mingmen which determines the lifespan, assuming one is not able to replenish yuan qi and kidney jing through condensing the energy one receives from external sources. Also, there are different opinions emerging these days which say the heart kidney relationship operates more like a valve which we lose the strength to operate as we age, rather than there being a fixed amount that cannot be replenished or reinvigorated. One studies the more postcelestial manifestation of qi, while the other works with the more precelestial realm. TCM is much more superficial than Classical Chinese Medicine, which includes many more layers, including ones which operate in the precelestial layer. Even then there must be awareness and distinction made when there is a momentum toward creation as opposed to reversal. It is likely difficult, requiring clear and comprehensive understanding, but they share the same root.

dull the brightness - over time this concept has become a very core principle to me, for many reasons. In the daodejing it is similar to the idea of being like an uncarved block, similar to flowing like water to the lowest point rather than raising oneself up, and it is related to the three treasures of compassion, frugality, and not daring to be ahead of anything else under heaven. In the case of a sun, the light radiates outward, but can only do so for so many aeons before it is burnt up. In the daodejing we are taught the principles of the dao, perhaps so we may ourselves be more like the dao, including its eternal nature. I suppose for me, over time all the chapters seem to say the same thing. At first there are more details, but over time the subtleties grow until the parts vanish to reveal the whole - this too comes from dulling the brightness - the mystery is in the subtle and indistinct.

Yes, I have read, and I pretty much agree with what you are saying in your first post in this thread regarding there being one method that accomplishes everything. Let's see: From beginning to end, the great medicine depends on one thing: the metal in the midst of the water, that is, the lead in the water-region. ... Then with both eyes one illumines the Palace of Kan (Water) ☵. Wherever the Golden Flower goes, true Yang comes forth in response. ... Thus the yang energy of the trigram Kan (Water) ☵ leaps upward. From beginning to end, to me means that this is a fundamental key to the process. Next we are told how this key works - by illuminating the palace of water (lower dan tien), causing the yang energy within the trigram of water to leap upward. You are welcome to disagree here, but to me this is saying that the ming energy is the fuel for the entire process - if one stops turning around the light to the palace of water, the merging of xing and ming ceases and the yang energy within the trigram of water no longer emerges. Thus the 3 passes are not used only in passing. To me the instruction of turning around the light for 100 days is important because this allows the ming to replenish. It is generally accepted that it takes around 3 months for the jing to replenish when it is not being consumed. Thus it does make sense to me for teachers to offer students methods for replenishing ming. Even though xing is the method, it still relies on ming for fuel from beginning to end. If there is no ming, it needs to be replenished - which of course one may do simply through waiting for it to replenish. Of course the older one gets the less quickly it seems to replenish. To me these are important distinctions, separating this method from methods that ignore ming altogether. As to why people utilize different methods when they could use this one - I figure the different methods all have their own strengths. Also people have different energetic makeups. Some have more water, some have more fire. Those with more water might have more difficulty with xing techniques until they are able to deal with the ming, and vice versa. In my own work, I do not have strong fire, and believe I stumbled onto one of the ming techniques at one point, even though I am instructed in the secret of the golden flower method.

Perhaps a similar trajectory to the triple burner can be used to reverse this process. In Peter Shea's book Alchemy of the Extraordinary:

The zhong lu quan dao ji also talks about how the yuan qi may be used to refine the body and add years to one's life. To be clear, one may add years to one's life without preventing or reversing the process of aging. This is all available in chapter 14 of this book, and is also translated at the end of this book.

Regarding rejuvenation, the replenishment of the ming / yuan qi to the body will keep the body healthy, but this is not to say it will prevent aging. To unwind the process of aging, the jade elixir (the golden elixir / true lead after it has been circulated up and then comes down into the mouth/saliva) must be used to refine the body. Not to say I know how this works, but this is my read on what is described in zhong lu quan dao ji. However, this only seems important if one is interested in earthly immortality. Most seem more interested in spiritual or celestial immortality, so perhaps they do not worry about using up the golden elixir on becoming younger, but on refining it into the golden elixir of the Seven Returns and the Nine Reversions. Rejuvenation through replenishment of yuan qi will improve one's health, but is not the same process used in becoming younger, making the hair turn from white to black, healing scar tissue, etc. This is a question I have pondered for a long time before discovering an answer that feels good to me. I've seen others here ask this question many times, so I share this hoping to contribute illumination and dissolve contention. Masters may appear to be many things on the surface, but are any of us qualified to judge them without even receiving what they might transmit to an indoor student?

Also, I'd like to ask if we can all try to work together in harmony here. The xing ming gui zhi (translation by Daniel Burton Rose) says: For in regard to the Three Passes: those who from doing enter non-doing [practice] the gradual method; those who cultivate the Upper Pass concurrently with the lower two passes [practice] the sudden method. As for those who directly refine the spirit and return to the Void, at the critical moment when the Work arrives at the Void, the extremity of quiescence, essence transforms into qi of itself, qi transforms into spirit of itself, meaning Gatemaster Yin’s principles on forgetting essence and spirit and transcending life. The Secret of the Golden Flower uses the method of cultivating the Upper Pass concurrently with the lower two passes. The methods of different schools may work from fundamentally different directions, and it is terribly easy to treat different schools oppositionally if one does not have a perspective able to encompass the workings of all. If this thread is going to bear fruit, which I think it could, it would help if we stop with the attitude that one method is superior to the other.

From The Secret of the Golden Flower, chapter 8, section 3, we have: From beginning to end, the great medicine depends on one thing: the metal in the midst of the water, that is, the lead in the water-region. The ming / yuan qi / yuan xi we are speaking of here is none other than the metal in the midst of water. Ordinary lead is the external medicine, which is ming. True/real lead is the (small) reverted elixir / small elixir / golden elixir.