Bright_Moon

I absolutely understand and relate to this point of view Suliman. I feel the same way. This is because Buddhism has a very negative style to it (in the sense that it has very little humour), trying to knock away all crutches/clinging to realize that there is nothing to hold on to can be distressing. 1"When the Taoist's were exposed to Buddhism they did much to make it more practical" - Alan Watts. This is because the Chinese are far more humourous I think. And they value being human. Many of my "Aha!" moments feel quite a lot like a spontaneous laugh. The Japanese call it satori. An old Zen man once asked me the question "Why are you desiring not to desire"?. Does that help Suliman? or perhaps also "WHO is it that desires to stop desiring?" Here is a Zen poem and a commentary that I found helpful: (Apologies for not quoting the source) "The perfect way (TAO) is without difficulty, for it avoids picking and choosing. Only when you stop liking and disliking will all be clearly understood. A split hairs difference and heaven and earth are set apart. If you want to get the plain truth, be not concerned with right or wrong. The conflict between right and wrong is the sickness of the mind." Comment: The point is not to make an effort to silence the feelings and cultivate bland indifference. It is to see through the universal illusion that what is pleasant or good may be rested from what is painful or evil. To see this is to see that good without evil is like up without down and that, to make an idea or pursuing the good, is like trying to get rid of the left by constantly turning to the right. One is therefore compelled to go around in circles. Hope that helps Suliman and you are most welcome. Feel free to private message me.

That was helpful to me!

Good Post. I think that I may have had similar experiences to you, though I am fairly new to Taoism so please excuse me if I make any incorrect observations. I have experienced moments of perfect clarity and often moments of total confusion. I have talked about these feelings with friends and they explain them away as a sort of "disillusionment with society". I disagree because during these moments I do not feel angry, sad or frustrated at all. It feels like a haze of cloud forms around my mind and I get into what I believe a western Buddhist may call "the struggle". The most important thing I would say to you is that these feelings are 100% normal and valid and that you should allow them to happen. I believe that these moments may well be the driving force of the clarity. How would you know when you are clear on things if you never felt confused? It is like having up without down. I can only draw from my own experiences. The only thing that I have found helpful during the confusing moments is to just sit in meditation. Approach the world through your ears. Let everything happen and just watch/listen. Your thoughts, sounds in the room around you, movements, everything. Just watch it without commentary. I hope this helps but I am a begginer. I have not read the books you mention and hope to start on them soon. I have read a book called "vegetable root discourse" and reccomend it to you.

Welcome! I am also new and also new to Taoism. What is Taoist Alchemy?

Hello. This is my first post as I am new to this forum and to Eastern thought in a way. I have just finished reading a book called Caigentan (Vegetable Root Discourse) by Hong Zicheng. I was wondering if anyone else has read the book and what they thought of it? I read the recent Robert Aitken release but am not sure as to if this translation is the definitive work on the book. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vegetable-Roots-Discourse-Wisdom-Living/dp/1593761201/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279518651&sr=8-2

Thank you both very much. I know I have found the book to be really helpful to me. Either of you have a favorite passage/quote? I was listening to an audio book of recordings by philosopher Alan Watts the other day and he mentions that the ancients would have read passages whilst playing an instrument similar to the Japanese Koto. It created an amazing atmosphere. My favorite is the passage Watts reads in this same style in the audiobook "Alan Watts Teaches Meditation". "The just man has no mind to seek happiness, heaven therefore, because of this mindlessness, opens it's inmost heart. The bad man busies himself with avoiding misfortunes, heaven therefore confounds him for this desire. How unsearchable are the ways of heaven, how useless the wisdom of men."

Hello. I am happy to be here and would like to be a part of your community. I live in the south east of England having just returned from a "break from the world" in Geneva, Switzerland where I was recovering from severe clinical depression. In Switzerland I met a very strange old man. He had nothing to teach me but I learnt for a while and then one day checked myself out of the clinic and came home.

Thank you for welcoming me!