ॐDominicusॐ

dawg, okay friend, you win. theres more to it than meets the eye, and its never how one thinks it is, so theres no point in saying anymore when a persons mind is made up via assumptions and the lack of openness to deeper possibility. Sending Love

Yes, I understand and have accessed portions of this within myself, however Zen Buddhism does not believe in or appropriate any identifications with a self which has karma, or causality. You seem to be implying there is still identity to which karma is attached to. Makes perfect sense to me, I experience, or have experienced, a number of these things off and on But you are not the subconscious, the anger, the greed, etc, etc...there is a "you" that is aware of these things, hence the subject which see's these, is not the object (seen). So by investigating what is this seer/subject/awareness, everything is transcended, body, ego, subconscious, and the Awareness/consciousness enters and merges with the source of Consciousness in the heart, and then eventually into the unborn/unmanifest beingness in the Belly. I'm speaking from direct experience of these things. When these things are accessed, the grace that comes from accessing them get rid of and pluck out greed, anger, etc......everything dies and falls away like being a newborn baby and having to relearn to function in the world again. There are 2 ways that I know of from direct experience. !.) Find the source of all thought, two inches to the right of the heart is a nadi/channel, that the mind/subconscious uses to arise from when the body awakens in the morning, and descends into when the body goes to sleep. If your focus and concentration skills are sharpened, you can access this "source of thought" and basically pull out the taproot of the the entire subconscious structure, and by the way, it doesn't take years of mantra to do so, there are quicker ways like just being aware of the mind and no longer identifying with any of it as "I" will reveal its source. The second way, is to enter the Central channel Susuhumna/Chong Mai, and into Heart/Source, or Beingness. the whole "you obviously don't meditate" thing, is a projection of your own mind. I've been at it for quite some time, and that phrase alone reveals some things about you, though I will try not to project and stay neutral. The fact is, Awareness is aware of the subconscious, and can literally sit there all day and not buy into any of it, even going days weeks without eating, thinking, talking, or identifying with it. That's the beauty of it. I've tried these "other ways" that don't have to do with mantra, and have experienced the same and similar things to you, remembering stuff from akashic, free access out of the body, peace, transcendence, no identity, I mean the list goes on for pages of the attributes and they are permanent. There is also a universal existential angst that only becomes unhinged when identification with the physical body ceases. WHen you no longer identify with the conscious/subconscious minds, there comes a period where the mind/complex-construct keeps trying to arise to find a place to "stick" to awareness, like it once did as a filter, but because there is no longer identification with it, it simply falls away and no longer returns, permanently. It is just clarity, like a cloudless thoughtless sky. To a variety of degrees yes, however it is not static, but completely dynamic, so what permanent states there were 3-7 years ago, are absolutely so much more, richer, clearer, more profound than ever, and the changes don't stop coming. There are even channels getting purged within the body, via light, which brings me to my next point. Many of the Taoists say, what's the use of cultivating conscious enlightenment if the body hasn't been cultivated, or cultivating the body if consciousness hasn't been. Are your channels opening and becoming purged/emptied? that's not what I'm saying. A monastery lifestyle, away from everything/everyone is probably the best way to go about the "mantra method". Doing so with a 40 hour work week, a gf/wife, responsibilities, yard work, distraction, etc you're lucky if you get 2-4 hours a day for practice. That's why some of the other approaches, like no longer identifying with ego/mind/subconscious/body is better for actice folks because they can apply that to ever activity of cultivating the sense that there is no "doer" in any action. when I started meditating, I had the attitude that I would give it a try, to see if I made any progress, I came to Thailand and found the best monastery and teacher that I could find… and from the beginning I made steady progress… so I persevered and the path opened up before me… I have this now too, "neutral and indifferent, no voice in the mind, complete silent mind, and only in the present moment," but without using the mantra method. Hmmmmmm, makes one think I've been around enlightened folks who give you a transmission, and afterwords you become illuminated by the light of consciousness, or your central channel opens, or all identification collapses which opens the doors to lower dan tians and chakras, some transmissions remain with you permanently for the rest of life, there's no going back. Mostly, I'm playing the devil's advocate, to get your take on things via different angles. I'm equating Zen enlightenment, with access and merging into the absence of consciousness when entering into the void of the absolute beingness, the portal to which is via the central channel and then lower dan tian. Honestly, for me, if you do not have access to the Absolute state, then your enlightenment is partial, and biased via a particular teaching that belongs to a particular sect of buddhism. Of the teachings I have studied, various, there are situations where one can merge with their subconscious(and have it spring cleaned), reach the source of the subconscious, visit the afterlife realms, etc, but still not be fully enlightened to the Absolute State, and yet they think that this is the end and they are Enlightened. The Absolute also has a specific color light to it, as does the Ocean of consciousness in the heart, and the Absolute is pure unborn/unmanifest potentiality that is sitting in absence, or yet to manifest. If you experienced this, you would know what I am referring to and can describe the colors. But that's neither here nor there, totally your thread so keep it how you want it. If it sparks even one person to gain enlightenment, or aspects of it, then thumbs up!!!!

Hey Dawg, Just wanted to reply to a few points: The thing is, the laws of this physical universe has loopholes. You can cover your hand with a special fire-proof gel before putting it in a fire, and not get burned. Also, their is a high probability that there are other universes/dimensions that do not hold to the same rules that are in this one. There are some teachings out there that describe the place within the body where karmic seeds rest, and it is said that an awakened one who has taken Buddhas vows, can go in and pluck all the karmic seeds out, and is no longer accumulating any. So my question is, what if you haven't gotten or seen this within yourself yet? Cause it may be this way, but if one doesn't know, then they would just say that there is no way to transcend karma. There are Taoist, Buddhist, Sufi, Mystical branches of thought that say that Absolute Beingness Experience doesn't require kundalini. Others say if COnsciousness merges absolute, then subconscious is transcended, because it is entirely seen as "Not I" therefore there is nowhere for consciousness to "stick." So from what I read of your path, via through the Subconscious, some say this is the front door to Enlightenment, and that the back door is just to no longer identify with it, while merging conscious with Unity Consciousness permanently in heart, and then merging Unity with Absolute in the LDT, and this backdoor way will also purify and trasncend the subconscious resulting in it becoming very quiet. I know a Taoist master in India(also claims Enlightenment) who teaches that only by avoiding and no longer identifying with Subconscious, will the central channel and access to unity and absolute open, and that going through subconscious is something you can get stick in for lifetimes with no guarantee, and that it is the hardest path. I'm bringing this up, no offense to you, but to just to show that everybody, who is enlightened, is teaching only what they know themselves through direct experience, and there were only a few teachers (Osho) who spoke of a myriad of ways to get there, or at least 2 (front door/back door) Don't some of these spirit realm gods feed off metta though? which would mean its better not to feed them with it? Ramana Maharshi taught that to find the source of thought, or the thought 'I', would uproot the main taproot of the entire conscious/subconscious mind, and leave you in complete thoughtlessness permanently along with full awakening, subconscious purged, enlightenment, and so forth. So in that case, it would qualify as your: "Anything that PERMANENTLY destroys all delusion in your subconscious mind will make you awakened." Also, obviously it took years to get to this point, so would you agree entering a monastery full time would be the only legitimate choice to achieve this? Considering a monastic life is majority spent on practice without access to family, friends, tv, media, and other worldly distractions, it just sounds like your way there is impossible in the modern day world. Also 2 other questions I forgot to ask: 1. What's your take on Lust? It's connected also to the body/subconscious network yes? But there also stories of lust continuing in the spirit realms and some say lust is only part of the body, so I'm trying to figure out the whole Lust complex. Is it also transcended in your case or is there still some partaking in it? 2. Would someone meditating next to you gain any benefits from your own aura or state of Being? There are a lot of stories of monks gaining benefits from the auras of teachers who were enlightened

HI Dawg, So I intuitively felt that you were back on and posting, jumped on taobums, and BOOM, front page. I have some questions. 1. So what's your take on Intuition? It is also connected to Subconscious, but cannot be wrong? I've seen people on the path argue about who was right when they were both going by intuition, but choosing different. 2. Why can't karma be transcended? The seeds completely uprooted and just transcend the whole karmic system so as to not play out what's left? It seems unfair that stuff done in ignorance, and because of it, then has to be tallied up after ignorance is snuffed out. 3. Can one navigate the spirit realms to get to the Highest heaven by whatever modes, stealth, love, thought-less awareness with intention, or even some mystics say you have to keep repeating that "you are from the first and highest pre-existent realm," and that it acts as a one way ticket, then Enlightenment can be gotten at that highest realm. 4. Can you speak on Absolute Beingness, it is the state on which Unity seems to rest on, yet is prior to it, unborn, unmanifest, and seems to be linked to the Lower Dan Tian as a doorway to it. 5. Which brings up next question. 3 Dan Tian System, or Chakra system, or are they united? 6. Also what about radiating Metta to all beings? Is this vital, as it is in a number of Buddhist branches? 7. Also, it seems Adviata Vedanta can do the same as a mantra, by constantly detaching from and no longer identify with any thoughts/thinker/body, access to the source of Thought manifests, and in that source, there is no thought. So are there other legit Paths to manifest Enlightenment in the manner of what you have reached? 8. What is left for you now? Any more cultivation of any additional aspects? Much Love and respect

personally: know 2 people who manifested the lotto. The first won 18 million, his wife then left hjim and took half and both daughters became spoiled idiots, and now no one in that family talks to each other. 2nd woman won a 500k smaller lotto and everyone in her family came out of the woodworks asking for money and when she didnt give anyone anything, they all created hatred around her and refused to talk her since then. Personally, I've used techniques to get a girl I wanted, who didn't want me, and then she caved in and came to me saying, "I don't know why, but I felt the biggest urge to come to you." Well granted to say, careful waht you ask for because once I was with her, it wasn't what I thought it would be. Lots of horomonal/emotional roller coaster ride, dr jeckyl and mr hide had nothing on her. I would say a lot more cause the stuff works.....but once you get what you're aiming for, then it comes with its own set of issues. One woman I knew begged to go into Enlightenment and eventually got there via some transmissions, and the screamed and cried to give her back her "I".....and when she got her "I" back, realized she wanted nothing to with enlightenment anymore..... Careful what you ask for

Why do the work if there is no "I" to do any of the work and no such thing as gaining any reailisations about never being stuck in the first place? Especially when you say: Sure I agree its a default state, but ask a million people about this state, and you'll be lucky to find one who knows it, meaning that there still has to be energy put into motion to investigate and figure out all of this. Even Buddha after Enlightenment, cried after hearing that his family got killed in a war. These are all just a myriad of countless views, and even with your post, there are quite a few teachers (A.H. Almaas being one of them) talking about how the view in your quote belongs to the school of "Absolutists" that speak of how its "only that," and nothing else, but how in reality it is that, along with pure subjectivity, and the personhood's individuality perfectly intertwined with the Absolute. At the end, everything can be argued for or against.

TI, What I'm saying is that, no matter the approach you take, be it with what you describe above, taoist based practices, grace, advaita, yoga, christian mysticism, etc......the way Enlightenment reveals itself is by Awareness dropping into the heart or hara via central channel and merges there. Everyone is just calling it by different names and different ways there.....paths may be different, but the destination is always universally the same. We're still on the same page, just looking at it with various angles

biggest question: Are saying all this from direct experience of being enlightened yourself?........or is it all theoretical?? Majority of Paths cultivate the body as well. Enlightenment happens through, via, as part of a body...that body then communicates back to the rest the info about enlightenment and cultivation, etc. The view that "there is no one there and no problem, nothing to gain, nothing to do, is a neo-advaiata cop out). In reality, there is the nondual, the dual, both simultaneously, and none of them, all at the same time. Even in my own awakening via a zen koan, there was enough insight retained to see that there was a shift from conceptual identity to awareness, and that awareness itself then descended via the central channel, and merged with the source of awareness, yet it happens so fast to some, that they don't catch the channels, blocks, chakras, dan tians, etc....so you end up with the neo-advaita garbage that's be spewed all over the place and leaving droves of sat sangers empty handed cause, well, there's just nothing to do and no one to do it (or in a miraculous extant that someone does awaken to this, it's merely to awareness, but not its source, or the absolute beingness) But hey, if you dig deep enough to the roots of stuff like dzogchen, advaita, etc...you will see that even those masters have pictures of students cultivating the inner furnace and the three channels....but digress. The whole "acupuncture" thread came about intuitively. I see how "mind" arises via a channel that has its source to inches to the right of the heart. Its literally a nadi like tube that runs along the spine, neck, and into the head with which illusion operates within....and certain foods, full moons, hormones, and yes acupuncture, all have influences on these channels..... But hey......I'm posting this from experience and intuition, not from theories

any mindset is conceptual...the primordial is always there, self evident. "masters" is mind........."warning against" is mind.........."mindset" is mind......."dzogchen path" is mind "masters" is mind........."warning against" is mind.........."mindset" is mind......."dzogchen path" is mind

that's the beauty of dzogchen, it predates buddhism and is its own thing, and in it, you can receive enlightenment within a day via transmission.....no worries on wrong views, and countless mantras and this and that...everything is instantly seen as arising from the primordial and any views of having to enter some kind of path, do this, do that, follow this master or that one, is all just conceptual madness that's superimposed over the primordial purity. The dzogchen masters who do continue in solitude practice are merely opening up further the channels in the body, the 3 dan tiens, etc. But hey, whatever floats your boat. Some people love and are addicted to seeking, and all the charades that come with over-complicating everything..... others just ride their bike in the forest preserve and spontaneously find themselves in permanent enlightenment. For me, whats best is the fastest route there.....

no matter the path, it seems its the same function that leads to enlightenment which-ever path you use, and thats detachment from mind, which opens the central channel. The observer/awareness then descends via that channel and merges with Oneness in the heart, and eventually the absolute beingness in the belly (all three dan tians)...just dif names in dif branches. Now in my experience, being around a variety of teachers/masters in different paths has all helped me to glimpse, and then remain in longer and longer periods of these realities, including getting hands on transmissions to open things up (certain aspects which I've read take 5 years in kriya to open, I've gotten in one day transmissions)...so yes, BOOM, short cuts exist (just ask the dzogchen masters who are all about this) So same thing goes for acupuncture. Since a large number of paths agree that the central channel joins together all the chakras/dan tians, which are accessed as part of Enlightenment, then there is an equivalent point that is connected to all the main channel, consciousness and its source, and all three dan tians. By the way, this all came up intuitively during a sitting meditation, that yes, there are acupuncture points that can hasten a practitioners enlightenment.

You can have an already tamed mind from all your other practices, but still not be merged completely in the ocean via the central channel that gives access to the other dan tians. I've found that certain herbs/spices/foods, yogic exercises, etc...seem to have an influence on more vs less mind as well opening all the channels more or less...so yes, it would seem that theoretically acupuncture should have effect on your practices towards enlightenment, especially since mind also uses a certain channel (see ramana maharshi) to arise into the head space upon the body waking in the morning

Okay, so two yes's so far. So who's out there doing this, or has tried this, or any further leads. What specific points should be hit with the needles/moxi?of cou of course i was already assuming that this would enhance all other practices of meditation, tai chi, yoga, etc

Considering the history of acupuncture and its ties with traditional chinese medicine including chi, meridians, chakras, dan tians, taoism, martial arts, etc... ......so considering all the ties, couldn't you technically open up all the dan tians, central channel, and hasten your Enlightenment through the use of hitting certain acupuncture points? I ask cause this has been popping up via intuition as a methodology that should technically work, plus I'm going in for a session for some lower back pain and was just reconsidering these ties all over again. What say you Bums?

Hey TI, I honestly think, that Ramana, Nisargadatta, and a few other teachers from that generation, made their teachings very absolute, i.e. this is the way it is and that's that. Whereas in Dzogchen, you have channels, five lamps, chanting letters over chakras, postures, sky gazing, etc.....all of which is designed to get you to the same place Ramana is speaking of. Its the same thing, just different words, imho. Even in some of the restricted dzogchen books they discuss one method being, the seeing of all things as concepts and unreal, with the mind having no source, which is supposed to lead to Enlightenment quickly. The most vital aspect, is to practice, and be in these states experientially. There is a lot of very dogmatic purists that I've found in all branches of study. People that get so angry if you discuss similarities in other paths. Many of those can be found on Taobums as well. And yet, there are many paths that are all leading to the same place. Let the dogmatists argue, while we remain in practice