Jetsun

My understanding is that it has to be created

Who has offered dick-head advice?

Ok I will try not to derail this thread further either, but I understand the approach of many Taoist schools, that you build up energy bodies and refine it to a higher vibration so that it can overcome the mind, but that isn't the way it always has to go. Take for example the case of Adyashanti, he had his main spiritual breakthrough in his early 20's through combining Zen meditation and enquiry, but after the awakening his energetic bodies started to develop as the pure spirit of the universe poured into and through his body, he had many difficult energetic periods after that. But the key point is that it occurred as a result of the awakening rather than being the cause of it, he didn't do anything intentionally to develop or refine his energy body, the development occurred naturally afterwards as a product of seeing through the false identity and awakening as awareness.

But the point is that if you track the sense of identity you find the source, not just the source of identity but the source of energy and spirit, any sense of limitation including the sense of limited senses breaks down. There is no need to break through the limited mind, you can just see the truth of it and everything returns to order. For some all it can take is a few moments of genuine stillness for the truth of it to be revealed and for the core sense of a separate self to break down. But if the spirit is unlimited how can it be developed? and if it is a personal individual spirit which is being developed then it is a spirit which still exists in separation consciousness and therefore must be under the influence of subtle levels of egoity and therefore not in complete freedom or complete awakeness. To allow in the energy of the unlimited spirit is more about emptying than refining in my experience.

I don't think Ramana's enquiry is meant to be intellectual even though many take it that way, the question is asked by the mind but the sense of I is meant to be tracked as a sense, a sense in the body or you could even say energetically, ultimately it is tracked to the inner spiritual heart, beyond that it breaks down. But his method isn't about developing the spirit but about seeing through the mistaken identity or mistaken sense of individuality. Yet it's true many thousands have tried to practice his path without the Guru present without success. But in terms of being in the results game in my own experience over the last few years I have seen that the combination of meditation and enquiry along with the bridging of an awake teacher in retreats can be a potent combination, many hundreds of people are having experiences of non-duality and awakening out of their sense of individuality this way, I have seen it myself.

That's not the only way. When Jesus said "be still and know that I am God" that is pointer to non-duality. Ramana Maharshi used to say his main teaching was in stillness, so stillness is a path. If you don't get stillness another path is enquiry, enquiry into who you really are, or you could enquire into what stillness really is. The thing about non-duality isn't that it is difficult or hard to obtain, it is that it is so simple everyone misses it. The Shangpa Kagyu Buddhist tradition says that we fail to recognise it because it is: So close you can't see it So subtle your mind can't understand it So simple you can't believe it So good you can't accept it

At the ultimate level it is indescribable, but it doesn't mean all the other levels are indescribable. The worry I think is about getting too rigid about a particular description or map, or getting fixated on a particular manifestation rather than keeping on going. The advantages of creating a good description or map is that it can help relate to peoples experiences and help with things like healing and working out the fundamentals about the way things manifest.

Most diet stuff is a load of garbage. What is healthy is always going to be individual depending on your constitution, genetics, what your ancestors ate, individual sensitivies etc. Then there are all sorts of variables and ways of looking at it, in ayurveda it would depend on your body type, which could contradict what TCM says about it. In the end the only thing which made sense to me is eat more local, seasonal, organic food and pay attention to what your body needs, which may be very different from what it craves out of habit or wants due to emotional reasons. Local honey is also good.

This just makes me realise how varied the spiritual experience can be, because I have read hundreds of spiritual accounts and studied many maps of the territory and many of them vary considerably and not many I have found have mentioned a blue pearl. Another thing I have realised through my own training is that people can differ greatly in their fundamental perceptions of life, so some perceive energy or the spiritual realms very visually, or more through the third eye, and some like myself perceive things in a more tactile way like a body sense or feel of the subject without much visual input. So it is possible that one person could perceive a blue pearl from a completely different perception yet still be talking about the same thing. There are many highly developed adepts who don't have spiritual sight or vision, that is more like a skill that can be learned or a gift rather than a necessity. My own path has been about diving in beyond the spiritual heart which in my experience is guarded by a veil which reflects consciousness (which it is how the sense of being a separate someone comes about). But beyond that when the veil breaks down in my experience it isn't a physical place in the body or energy, because the sense of being a separate self breaks down it is more about moving out of the localised energy field into higher dimensions towards the source of where it comes from.

I don't see any insult Neikung posted, all he said in your quote is that you shouldn't practice Neikung without a teacher, which is pretty much standard advice given out by all experienced practitioners.

The "Space Panda group" is obviously just MPG talking to himself and creating multiple accounts here to troll.

Abusive poster continues to be abusive after suspension so is banned, shock horror, such injustice!!

So what are you trying to achieve? MPG says he doesn't want to come back here anyway (even though he obviously is back using a VPN or whatever). You have your own forums where you can discuss your path and trash everyone elses as much as you like. If you have all the answers and have already found a superior system then why bother with a forum which is interested in discussion. Nobody is going to be unbanned. Nobody is going to apologise for a correct decision. These issues are about two years old for gods sake, isn't it about time to let it go, how can you still be sore after two years?

Repeatedly trashing every other system and path because it didn't fit with his own narrowly defined belief system led to increasing conflict and argument, there was rarely any healthy debate and wasn't in the spirit of civil polite conduct as stipulated in the code of conduct. So he was banned. All this talk of groups is very paranoid. There are no groups, all you have a few people with different opinions and paths who volunteer their time to moderate. Then after a few months those people change out and new mods come in.

I guess this is yet another troll thread I'm getting drawn in to, but this case was quite simple. Each member agrees to a code of conduct when they sign up, MPG thought he could get away with insulting everyone by not directing his insults directly at individuals, but he was still deemed to be breaching the code of conduct of the site through his behaviour, so he was banned. It's no more complicated than that. There was no invention of false rules or dishonesty.

I'm pretty sure he was around and involved back then

It's been years, get over it already

More important than your own direct experience? Isn't that just a deferral of your own power/responsibility

One way to get off the cycle of reincarnation is to thoroughly and honestly examine what exactly it is that is reincarnating

So what are you and your friends planning to do when you complete those levels of training?

Zen doesn't get in to the processes and mechanisms of such things very much, it is more about going directly to the source. The main advantage being that people actually get there without being distracted and hypnotised along the way, the disadvantage being the route and territory isn't mapped out as precisely as some other traditions.

So he sees no value in continuing the practices of the lower levels already taught to him when he isn't part of the official school, I would have thought he may have continued them if they are the only real techniques going. What is the hope of those who practice the lower levels from manuals and the internet, that they will be accepted into the school at some point in the future?

That is understandable and explains why he doesn't teach others. But it doesn't explain why he doesn't practice it himself any more.

So Kosta Danaos doesn't teach any Mo Pai to anyone any more and doesn't practice it any more, he says that people should "get on with their lives" rather than try to learn it. If it is the only thing on the planet worth learning then why does he take this attitude towards it?

"Kosta Danaos is a literary construct, designed for a particular market" ~ Kosta Danaos http://www.pammachon.gr/index.php/en/contact-us