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Everything posted by Jetsun
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You presume an awful lot about me, yet if you are honest all you have are your assumptions. Anyone can investigate their true nature because its what we all already are, its not only for superduper advanced immortal beings
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So they are sacred cows now are they. What I said was quite straightforward, if they are aware of their true nature then how can they see God as separate? But hey if we are not allowed to even question these guys I will leave you to your blind belief.
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That's what these "immortals" believed , the fact that they saw God as separate suggests to me that despite their amazing energetic developments they were not awake to their true nature.
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Through depression we regain our spiritual bearings
Jetsun replied to Nikolai1's topic in General Discussion
Wisacring doesn't mean making jokes, it is a word he created to describe the way humans expand upon things and talk about things they don't really know anything about. -
John Chang was a Christian who believed in God, his masters immortal spirit after a period of time "went up to God" and their communication stopped, which suggests his spirit wasn't as immortal as some may think, so no matter how superhuman they were or what they achieved energetically in their lives they were still humbled before God and subject to the law of Karma like everyone else.
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That's not what pretty much the entire Buddhist cannon says, it says the opposite that all we need to do is clear the dust away from the diamond not create it.
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Someone who realises who they already are
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There is bliss of the body which can happen to anyone, I bet even Hitler had it a few times. And there is bliss from the fact that everything arises from and passes into perfect peace, which is a different sort of bliss that most people talk about. So it depends on what sort of bliss you are talking about, bliss of the body isn't necessarily indicitive of anything, in some paths they call it major hindrance and obstacle because it can cause avoidance.
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Try the White Skeleton meditation, William Bodri gives good instructions. Its a great meditation to try.
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Yeah from my perspective I would say that there is an incarnational journey we all go through, but I think if you are even slightly interested in this stuff then I expect you are probably coming close to the end of it. In one of the paths I am working with they say that we go through a period of lives where we accumulate karma and then we go through a period of lives working it off, so someone who is on the upward trajectory is unlikely to be interested in awakening or even want to let any of their issues go. But in terms of when one can come out of the karmic journey and awaken I don't like to put too many conditions on it as anything is really possible. I was watching a Batgap interview with Bonnie Greenwell recently who says she had spent most of her life studying a lot of the Yogic literature and working with Kundalini and energy practices and she said that the traditional literature told her that certain conditions have to be met to wake up, so certain energetic centres and pathways need to be open otherwise it can't happen. But then she met Adyashanti and saw first hand how many people were awakening without having all that development and it was actually happening to them after awakening as a result of it rather than being the cause.
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Some people may start going, but my parents generation aren't as indoctrinated as my grandparents so it won't be as many and those that do will probably be for the social aspect. England is probably the most atheistic country in the world, most religious and spiritual things are thought of as make believe by the majority of people.
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In terms of the real Christian message there are people out there spreading it, but mostly not in the Church. I went to see Francis Bennett last week who is a former Trappist Monk who is now giving non-dual Satsang type meetings but with a more Christian flavour. I found it very powerful. He says one of the best books on how to approach the non-dual stuff is "The Cloud of Unknowing" written by an unknown monk in the Middle Ages. I do think there is a growing appetite for a Christian perspective on the path, but I don't think the Church will ever provide it.
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In the UK its mostly older people who go to church to be honest, I would say getting through to them is very difficult. I don't know of any young people who would turn to a vicar to discuss issues. The Church may be an avenue to do charity work or service though. The modern version of that role is a councillor or therapist I guess. I would say that generally those who go to Advaita meetings are quite mature, although I do see many people leave half way through so not everyone who goes gets it straight away. Yet most who go are still looking for guidance, if you are qualified. There are lots of pitfalls and ego traps if you set yourself up as a teacher though, so I doubt it is easy. Maybe write a book first to see if what you are putting out resonates with people. What do you want to get through to people for?
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Anyone can set themselves up as a teacher, just book a room and advertise you are doing meetings or Satsangs, then see if anyone turns up.
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Its the minds job to create duality, that is its purpose. It only causes a problem when our identity is caught up in the mind, so the issue isn't dualism or dualistic thinking, it is a case if mistaken identity. The mind likes to think that there is no reality outside of its itself because to admit otherwise would mean the end of its world.
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That's what the mind wants you to think
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Who are you talking to? If it is me (as you quoted me) while I like some of your post there there are an enormous amount of assumptions in it too. I don't blame secrecy for any bondage, in this internet age I have found many easily available teachings available, just not in alchemy. I am hardly experienced but I haven't seen anyone from an alchemical tradition who I would described as liberated from bondage, whereas in other traditions I have met a few. If there are liberated alchemists why do they hide?
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What Results Do People Here Have From Training?
Jetsun replied to vonkrankenhaus's topic in Daoist Discussion
I haven't gained anything, it is costing me everything -
Once upon a time there was a good reason, now it is an elitist thing.
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The use of concepts in cultivation and the use of concepts to understand and navigate day to day life are fundamentally different. In cultivation the main productive use of concepts is to use them to destroy other concepts, like they say you can use a thorn to remove a thorn. You can't use concepts to understand the ultimate reality of things, if you could then koan practice would be worthless. Yet it isn't like you have to reach a certain stage or level before you can jump into the non-conceptual, anyone can do it at any time, the whole idea of the raft reaching the other shore creates a barrier to realisation if it creates the idea that it is only possible in some time in the future when certain conditions are met.
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It starts to unwind its tensions and knots liberating the bound up energies and psychic tensions.
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Who is doing that?
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In the majority of cases I would say it is different than working with the lower Dan tien. As I understand it many Taoists work at developing or manipulating the energies there, whereas with Adyashanti's map he says the navel is where our most primal survival instincts are held, so to awaken there is to move through those instincts to release any sense of identity. The energies are left alone, it is more about identity.
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In terms of Adyashanti's teachings all he does is combine self enquiry with silent meditation. So you could call it a yang and a yin approach. The results are experiential so if you experience a universal self or no self that is what is experienced. There is no conflict between combining self enquiry and meditation, unless you try to do both at the same time, in fact they both enhance and support each other. In terms of the map he works with if you experience no-self that is considered an awakening on the level of mind, whereas if you experience a universal self that is considered an awakening on the level of the heart. An individual could experience both of these in succession or continually switch from either. But there is still somewhere deeper to go which is the awakening of the gut, which is neither no-self or self, it transcends both, which is where his teaching eventually leads. Both Buddhism and Vedic teachings are rafts not destinations, so in the end there is no conflict. Self and no-self are both different sides of the same coin
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I'm not sure if anything I say will satisfy you in any way as you clearly have your mind made up already about what constitutes the real path and anyone who doesn't fit your own already firmly defined criteria is discounted. And you clearly have your mind fully made up about Adyashanti so I doubt there is any sincerity in your questions. But i'll give it a go explaining for those who are not already so full. The way it worked on retreat is that every morning Adyashanti would come in for silent meditation and during some of those he would non-verbally put emphasis on different movements of energy. Then later on in the day he would come and give a guided meditation on the same movements of energy but this time it was done verbally, so essentially the mind can catch up on what has already been pointed out energetically. So those who are sensitive energetically can recognise what is going on before it is brought to the attention of the mind. So basically the transmission isn't shaktipat or anything like that, is was bringing attention to movements of energy which are already present, which is basically the same as many forms of transmission you get in many Buddhist lineages in that what is being pointed out is what is already present but you aren't aware of it. For example one day there was a Christian transmission called descent of the dove or the descent of grace, which was basically bringing attention to the downward flow of energy from above the head to the right of the heart, which is the downward flow of redemptive love. After this was done basically most of the hall was in tears it was that powerful. I tried to do it before the retreat with no success, but now it has been transmitted it is far easier for me to locate and meditate on that flow of grace, sure it was there before so Adyashanti hasn't given it to me, but now it is much easier to be aware of it. But I never said Adyashanti is a Christian, his retreats are mostly Zen Buddhist and there is full homage paid to the lineage of masters and ends with a recital of the heart sutra. But if you asked Adyashanti what lineage was being transmitted he would probably say the one which is eternal and formless.