Jetsun

Yet the thinking mind is creating non stop all day long, it is creating our sense of separate self. What it creates isn't actually real though so in that sense it isn't creating anything with substance, but to all intents and purposes our perception is that it is real most of the time.

Coming back to the topic of quality of mind I was just reading "I am that" by Nisargatta Maharaj and thought this was relevant: M: To earn a livelihood some specialised knowledge is needed. General knowledge develops the mind, no doubt. But if you are going to spend your life amassing knowledge, you build a wall around yourself. To go beyond the mind,a well-furnished mind is not needed. Q: Then what is needed? M: Distrust your mind, and go beyond. Q: What shall I find beyond the mind? M: The direct experience of being, knowing, loving.

If you get really sensitive and grounded in the present it is possible to directly perceive that the world the mind creates actually happens after life, so life happens and then milliseconds later the mind recreates what it has perceived like a virtual reality or like a video camera recreation but with its own filtering and distortion added on. And we live in the virtual reality nearly all of the time rather than the real thing! So not only are thoughts completely coloured by past conditioning the world the mind creates happens after life so isn't actually real.

As the fire comes to the end of the rope what stops it from transferring to many different ropes at the end, the same fire moving into different directions rather than just staying with the one? especially if there is a intermediary stage between bodies. As far as I can see there must be something maintaining the bundle of thoughts and processes as one bundle together from life to life to keep things localised. That isn't to say that I think the soul is eternal, in the approach I am working with they say that the soul is energetic therefore it can be sensed if your sensing of energy is sensitive and developed enough, but it contains an subtle element of ego therefore it is possible to wake up out of your soul and it is temporary.

What keeps all the bundle of processes together from life to life so there is some semblance of continuity rather than the processes splitting off into a million different directions upon death?

By definition your "I" can't experience oneness because your I only exists in the perception of separation. To experience oneness therefore requires seeing though the fundamental misperception that you exist as a separate being. How to see though that misperception? In reality the oneness is what you already are, and because you already are it there is nothing you can do can make you more it, which is why it is said it is only when you stop seeking you find because then you just relax into what already is, you stop moving away from and avoiding the recognition of oneness, which is basically what we are all doing all of the time. We do all we can including spiritual practice to avoid the recognition of oneness because in oneness our separate "I" cannot exist and who wants to be annihilated? Out of survival our ego consciousness will do all it can to deny, repress, confuse and try to control things so we don't see the truth of the situation, which is basically the force of "Mara" or unconsciousness we are all subjected to. So as far as I can see people only usually move beyond that force of unconsciousness under a few circumstances which is usually if they are suffering a lot, if they have a really sincere inner desire for the truth or really sincere faith in the divine, or if they are "randomly" touched by grace But the basic instruction to experience oneness is just to be still. Or if you want to do something more active then investigate into the fundamental nature of identity. Anita Moorjani has a very interesting story though, it shows how quickly anything can heal she did an interview on Batgap which is quite good.

Keeping the mind clear all day is impossible, even for five minutes is pretty much impossible. You can go into blank states of mind through repression but below the repression the mind will still be moving. Yet you can be in or rather become aware of the prexisiting complete stillness and silence which is always there even if the mind is moving at maximum speed, it is usually when people give up trying to make the mind silent after much effort at trying that this is recognised, but it doesn't have to work like that you can become aware of the preexisting peace at any moment.

What are you prostrating to?

The Cloud Of Unknowning is basically a non-dual text, also many of the Nag-Hammadi texts like the Gospel of Thomas and Gospel of Philip and many others. Thomas is probably a good place to start.

I don't know, personally in my daily life I get to meet and interact with some of the brightest minds from Cambridge University and just about all of them think they can find their way out of their problems and existential issues with their thinking minds, so in one sense their brilliant minds increase their sense of ego and identity within the mental realm more than the average person as they have been praised for their thinking and intelligence their whole lives. I haven't tried to do any enquiry with them but they have so much self invested in their minds that I doubt many of them really want to discover that the mind is a false king sitting on the throne. I guess having an open mind and being inquisitive are qualities often found in high intelligence and education can help break down rigid concepts and views, but I still find it hard to directly correlate intelligence with capacity to do enquiry. Take for example Sri Nisargatta Maharaj, he was pretty much uneducated and considered unremarkable and he says he made such advances spiritually basically because he trusted his Guru, that was it, his Guru said just keep coming back to the "I am" and he trusted him so that is what he did. Why he trusted him so completely I don't know but personally I think such things are more to do with intuition or heart intelligence than anything else.

"Keep chasing the I and with any luck you'll end up disappearing up your own ass" - Wayne Liquorman Basically enquiry is just examining what is true, especially on the level of our own beliefs so it can be a gradual unravelling of the mind like with the work of Byron Katie rather than a direct penetration into the "I", which isn't a difficult process but few people are willing unless they are suffering because who wants to see that they are wrong or see that they are living a lie? people would rather do anything to cover up their own untruths because to let go of them can be perceived as a loss and can even be perceived to threaten their existence. In some ways a simple person is going to have an easier time with enquiry because their mind wont have woven a great deal of elaborate sophisticated concepts and thoughts around their life and identity, so I don't think it has to do with IQ as much as it is to do with being willing and people are only usually really willing when they have nowhere else to go, or they are suffering too much, or they have basically come to an end and the common delusions of life are no longer very convincing, or they have a really deep inner heart longing for the truth.

Krishna Das is a good example of someone who has fully devoted themselves on the Bhakti path, even if you don't like his style of music you can feel the power in his bhajans because even when he is singing at the Grammys you can tell he is really one-pointedly focusing on singing to his guru and the divine rather than to the crowd and tv cameras. But with Krishna Das he was transformed by meeting the sage Neem Keroli Baba so he needed a middle man in order to facilitate his bhakti path, which is the case for many of us as far as I can see because who can so easily surrender directly to God? and without some kind of guidance it is easy to get lost because when it comes down to it what do concepts like the "divine" and "God" really mean and what really is a "deity"? they are pointing to something formless but in the case of people like Neem Keroli Baba and Amma that pure divinity has taken form in our realm for the benefit of humankind, (with Neem Keroli Baba being an emmanation of the deity Hanuman and Amma an emanation of the Divine Mother), which ultimately makes it easier for us to connect to those obscure concepts through their presence and what they represent.

If I was you I would go to see Amma (Mata Amritanandamayi) she will help you especially if you are interested in bhakti. She is one of the great historical Indian Saints alive to guide us today.

That's encouraging. If the Chinese really got behind green and renewable technology they could probably make big progress, as we can't rely on most of the Western countries to do so as their political and economic structures are too linked in to preserving the use of fossil fuels.

The approach Adyashanti takes to enquiry is to drop your enquiry question in through the top of your head and down into being, a bit like dropping a stone into a pool of water, that way it is less likely to become a purely mental exercise. You could use almost any question and there may be a question which is burning for you which isn't the classic "who am I?". Adyashanti's wife says she worked with the enquiry "what is silence?" for a year and a half and it proved to be instrumental in her awakening. It was combined with silent zazen type meditation and retreats but the enquiry aspect is considered the masculine element of their path where you zero in on the essence, whereas the meditation is the feminine where you allow everything to unfold and be as it is. From what I can see this two pronged approach seems to be quite effective and has led to a lot of peoples awakenings. Another teacher I worked with says that enquiry is only really going to be effective if you are "ripe" and that much of your karmic baggage has been exhausted and you are at the doorway of awakening. Enquiry is like knocking on the door, yet whether the door opens or not has nothing to do with you and isn't up to you, it is up to grace or divinity, yet knocking may improve the chance of it opening, but is no guarantee.

At certain points faith can be be incredibly helpful, faith in the process of life, faith that you are going to be ok, faith in change. Once mind is trancended faith may not be required but during the process of moving our identity out of mind, moving out of separation consciousness, faith can sure make it a lot smoother and reduce the anxiety.

Sounds good, when you move beyond the minds interpretation you can move into a place of absolute intimacy with whatever is arising. Although I wonder if can you really detach from your own views without going into avoidance, perhaps all that is required is to see the truth of them, that they are interpretations of life rather than what life really is. From others perspective it may be perceived as detachment but from our own perspective its just about seeing and dealing with things as they are, if you see interpretations as interpretations rather than reality then what need is there of detachment from them? it will just happen naturally from perceiving the truth of them.

I think it is a precise rebuttal the commonly held belief that the practice of raising the kundalini alone can bring you to the recognition of the place free of bondage or to non-duality. He is highlighting that it isn't even necessary and doesn't directly lead there and doesn't destroy the mental tendencies which block realisation (there are many assumptions that it purifies everything in the way), which is pretty useful information in my opinion, especially as people seem to be obsessed with Kundalini stuff these days. That might not be the way or purpose you are using raising K in your own practice and by the sounds of things you are incorporating it into a wider framework, yet overall I feel it is particularly relevant..

Well people commit suicide for reasons such as feeling unloved in childhood or because they are mentally ill, or because of long standing mental/emotional problems, so really some perspective may help because someone not writing a song about you when you expect them to is not in any way in the same ball park. Its not in the same ball park as all sorts of problems. Even if it triggers something its not the cause of it. Yet i'm not trying to say you have no right to feel the way that you feel, pretty much everyone has had their real legitimate feelings undermined and ignored to a certain extent, but when people react strongly to relatively minor things in day to day life it is usually because something deeper has been triggered.

After seeing all the fuss they made in that vid and the fact that it was meant for charity that is a low thing to do, I think you have every right to be pissed off that they aren't doing what they promised. Yet it is a just a couple of individuals behaving poorly, there is no real need for you to take to heart, sure make sure people know about it and do what you can to say the truth of what has happened but really there is no need to get so pissed off that it affects you in such a negative way. The world is full of people doing things far worse than that

Ramana Maharshi on raising Kundalini up the Sushumna: Question : How to churn up the nadis [psychic nerves] so that the kundalini may go up the sushumna? Ramana Maharshi : Though the yogi may have his methods of breath control for this object, the jnani's method is only that of enquiry. When by this method the mind is merged in the Self, the shakti or kundalini, which is not apart from the Self, rises automatically. The yogis attach the highest importance to sending the kundalini up to the sahasrara, the brain centre or the thousandpetalled lotus. They point out the scriptural statement that the lifecurrent enters the body through the fontanelle and argue that,viyoga [separation] having come about that way, yoga [union] must also be effected in the reverse way. Therefore, they say, we must by yoga practice gather up the pranas and enter the fontanelle for the consummation of yoga. The jnanis on the other hand point out that the yogi assumes the existence of the body and its separateness from the Self. Only if this standpoint of separateness is adopted can the yogi advise effort for reunion by the practice of yoga. In fact the body is in the mind which has the brain for its seat. That the brain functions by light borrowed from another source is admitted by the yogis themselves in their fontanelle theory. The jnani further argues: if the light is borrowed it must come from its native source. Go to the source direct and do not depend on borrowed resources. That source is the Heart, the Self. The Self does not come from anywhere else and enter the body through the crown of the head. It is as it is, ever sparkling, ever steady, unmoving and unchanging. The individual confines himself to the limits of the changeful body or of the mind which derives its existence from the unchanging Self. All that is necessary is to give up this mistaken identity, and that done, the ever-shining Self will be seen to be the single non-dual reality. If one concentrates on the sahasrara there is no doubt that the ecstasy of samadhi ensues. The vasanas, that is the latent mental tendencies, are not however destroyed. The yogi is therefore bound to wake up from the samadhi because release from bondage has not yet been accomplished. He must still try to eradicate the vasanas inherent in him so that they cease to disturb the peace of his samadhi. So he passes down from the sahasrara to the Heart through what is called the jivanadi, which is only a continuation of the sushumna. The sushumna is thus a curve. It starts from the lowest chakra, rises through the spinal cord to the brain and from there bends down and ends in the Heart. When the yogi has reached the Heart, the samadhi becomes permanent. Thus we see that the Heart is the final centre.

What I call Kundalini is the particular energy which moves along the spine feeding the nervous system and energising the chakras. There are all sorts of other energies and pathways also associated with clarity and awakening. I agree that those channels becoming open is a necessary part of the process but it isn't always a linear progression as such. There are those who do it the other way around, they penetrate through the sense of I in the heart into the ground of their being which in turn removes the contractions in the channels as pure life energy rushes in. So the kundalini process can be a result of moving into awakening rather than a method to arrive at it.

I know a lot of people and historical masters would agree that what you say here is the truth, yet the people I have been working with say that if you bring kundalini energy to the upper chakras then it can lead to vast openings on that level and personal states which can be useful for breaking free of limitations and conditioning, but is still limited to subtle levels of ego and separation consciousness and isn't the same as true awakening, and therefore ultimately not satisfying to the heart. Having not done such kundalini practices myself I cant say what is the truth from my own experience, but I thought I would put that out there.

Even if you stimulate a fully blown active kundalini energy all it will produce are states, which may be nice and blissful or could be horrific, but they are still temporary states which even in the greatest mind blowing rapture will still be confined by some level of subtle egoic seperation. I find it more useful to look for that which is ever present, or before or beyond all states, which also may help a great deal grounding and putting in context anything which arises from any energies in the body which become activated through the awakening process, which also opens up the energies naturally anyway without you forcing it.

Yeah and the issue us humans often have to deal with is that there is a lot of conditioning we receive from family and society which creates a lot of shame and guilt around this natural process. so many people struggle with it to a certain extent. It's clear that when people have problems in this area the issue isn't usually sexuality itself, it is our beliefs, thoughts, positions and conditioning we have around our sexuality, which have been placed in us from the outside distorting our perception of what is a natural part of our lives.