Jetsun

edit: yeah Bagua is probably right, no need to continue this on now

I would say fundamentalist is a pretty accurate description. All fundamentalists say that their way is the only way and all others are wrong and worthless, although perhaps he gave 0.0000001% more leeway than others.

I think Samael Aun Weor has taken the term Kundabuffer out of its intended context and added his own definitions to it, which probably isn't helpful. Essentially when Gurdjieff talks about Kundabuffer he is talking about ego but he knows that the word ego means different things to different people, the way Freud talks it about it is different from Buddhists for example, and there are all sorts of associations people make with that word, so to try to get people to think freely and approach his ideas from beginners mind he decided in his writings to make up his own words for those terms which are already too loaded. So I would recommend approaching the idea of Kundabuffer on Gurdjieff's terms without any concepts added to it by Samael Aun Weor.

Please nobody post any copyright material in this thread please

Kudos to you for trying it out and being open to your experience and for Clyman for being willing to put himself under test. I can't help but think your conclusion doesn't really match the rest of your post though hehe. It would be interesting if you posted back with follow up comments a few weeks later to see how you feel then.

It sounds good what you are doing, maybe the Yuen method might be able to diffuse the emotional charge from an issue which the feeding the demons technique might not be able to do, which may bring in a different perspective and break the fixated position of the issue. Although emotional charge may be good in some instances, so it is good to have a variety of techniques and know when to use them, which I guess comes from experience.

One key aspect of the feeding demons thing is that you are better off giving it what it really needs rather than what it wants, otherwise you may just indulge it. Its like with angry people many of them try to get others to argue with them but in reality most of them need a hug rather than a fight, but if you indulge with what they want rather than what they need you encourage the neurotic behavior rather than connect with the genuine impulse.

Seeing as you promote Clyman's system don't you fail your own test?

Other mods can clarify if they feel like it but he was suspended for being insulting. As far as the action was concerned all the mods and admin were in agreement, so there was consensus from the mod team with the action taken.

Yeah, but are we breathing or is life breathing us?

I would call it intuition, the trust in which is developed through successful practice. Clyman probably has a role though, in that the macho yang people probably gravitate to him as they would probably feel more uncomfortable and insecure with a softer style master.

Just stating the facts, people can make of that what they want. If there was just one video done without the help of his marketing department it would be more convincing. Anyone who has any experience with healing whatsoever knows that the claim that you can wipe a person free of issues with one session is ludicrous.

All of the videos are done with Clymans own camera and uploaded by whoever does his marketing.

The trick is that you can't stop resisting the present moment, you as a separate self are resistance.

Scientific evidence for that claim?

~~~~~~~~~~~ Mod Warning ~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is a mod warning for a personal insult which is against the tos of the site. Any further insults and you will be suspended. Further action may be taken when the other mods log in ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seeing as the Vatican banned these sayings and as it was the period of the inquisition there was a real danger in saying them I suspect they are probably important with regards to the truth: 1 . On being asked why God did not create the world earlier, he answered then as now that God could not have created the world earlier because nothing can operate before it is. Therefore, as soon as God was, He created the world. 2. Likewise, it may be admitted that the world has existed from all eternity. 3 . Likewise: At once, and as soon as God was, when He begot His coeternal Son as God fully equal to Himself, He also created the world. 4. Likewise: In every act, even evil, in the evil of punishment just as much as in the evil of guilt, God's glory is equally revealed and shines forth. 5. Likewise: Whoever reviles anyone with abuse, he praises God through this very abuse, and the more he abuses and the worse he sins, the more he praises God. 6. Likewise: Even he who blasphemes against God praises God. 7. Likewise: Whoever prays for this or that, prays for something evil and in evil wise, for he prays for the denial of good and the denial of God, and he prays for God to deny Himself to him. 8. Those who seek nothing, neither honor nor profit nor inwardness nor holiness nor reward nor heaven, but who have renounced all this, including what is their own - in such men God is glorified. 9. I recently wondered whether I should accept or desire anything from God. I will consider this very carefully, because if I received anything from God I would be beneath Him or below Him like a servant or slave, but He in giving would be like a master and it should not be thus with us in eternal life. 10 . We are fully transformed and converted into God; in the same way as in the sacrament the bread is converted into the body of Christ, so I am converted into Him, so that He converts me into His being as one, not as like. By the living God it is true that there is no difference. 11 . All that God the Father gave His only-begotten Son in human nature He has given me: I except nothing, neither union nor holiness; He has given me everything as to him. 12. Everything that Holy Scripture says of Christ is entirely true of every good and holy man. 13 . All that is proper to the divine nature is also proper to the just and godly man; therefore such a man performs everything that God performs, and he has created heaven and earth together with God, and he is a begetter of the eternal Word, and God could do nothing without such a man. 14. The good man should so conform his will to the divine will that he wills everything that God wills. And since God in a certain sense wills that I should have sinned, I should not wish to have committed no sins. And that is true penitence. 15 . If a man had committed a thousand mortal sins, and if that man were in a proper state, he should not wish not to have committed them. 16. There is something in the soul that is uncreated and uncreatable. If the whole soul were of such a nature she would be uncreated and uncreatable. This is the intellect. 17. God is neither good nor better nor best. When I call God good I speak as falsely as if I were to call white black.

"When we say 'Thy kingdom come, thy will be done', we are praying to God to deprive us of ourselves" "You must give up yourself, altogether give up self, and then you have really given up." -Meister Eckhart

Yew Tree The Yew Tree has a unique way of growing new trunks from its branches next to the original trunk, so over many hundreds or thousands of years it grows a circle of Yews which look like a group of individual trees of different ages but really are just the one tree, so theoretically they can carry on that process indefinitely and can be immortal. Yews were viewed as sacred by the Celts who would worship in their circles, some of the individual tress are thought to be over 4000 years old but unfortunately due to deforestation there are no publicly known complete circles of Yews left, but if you do ever find one you are probably in the presence of the most ancient being on the planet.

I think the way a decent psycotherapist would try go about it would be to create a more compassionate container for what was emerging, in the sense of meeting it with a more allowing open hearted way which will contrast the struggling non allowance of the person it is happening to. If there is a decent rapport and trust that alone could be enough to facilitate integration of what is coming up. Other things which could help is to challenge the thinking and conclusions made at earlier more helpless stages of development. The basic aim is to restructure the perspective of the persons identity into a healthier perspective towards what is occurring to reduce the conflict towards it. The other way could be to question the sense of "I" altogether, which might be difficult because the person is likely to be very contracted and clinging to whatever sense of I they have left so to propse that they let that go which might open up even more suffering is not likely to be something they can choose to do, but it is something which sometimes happens when a person comes to a complete dead end and give up all struggle (without commiting suicide). Like in the case of Byron Katie who was basically floored by psychological turmoil to the extent that she gave up, and in that she awakened to what she really was. I doubt a therapist can facilitate that process though unless they are "awake" themselves so their own consciousness can entrain the process non verbally, otherwise its like they are trying to get them to take steps into places they haven't been themselves, which isn't likely to engender any trust.

I think its the flooding of the conscious mind with repressed thoughts, feelings and impulses from the subconscious. What I think is being broken is your sense of "I" in the sense that you are being overwhelmed with material you don't consider as an acceptable part of yourself, so there is a big war or internal conflict with what is coming up.

Who knows what the truth is, there were all sorts of rumours about him some of which were apparently started by Gurdjieff himself, also there was a lot of suspicion he was a foreign agent so there were people working against him politically. He was known to be a healer of psychological malodies for much of his life so I suspect he would do what he could for people in a bad way mentally, but its true his work was intense alchemy designed to bring down your defenses and bring out what is in the subconscious so it wouldn't surprise me if there were casualties as there isn't much difference between that process and a psychotic break, which is why many would leave as the heat turned up and create all sorts of accusations against him because he was trully dangerous towards their ego defences. Also the article doesn't mention that Ouspensky told his own students including his own wife to go study with Gurdjieff before he died, so if he really thought he was that dangerous he wouldnt have done that.

The article makes out that Gurdjieff's aim was somewhat mysterious but from his own books he makes clear that one of his principle aims was to discover the real reason for war and try to eradicate it from the planet, or at least somewhat reduce the mass destruction which periodically decimates a significant part of it. He had seen the impact of the Ottoman conquests on his own country then lived through the mass devastation of two World Wars as well as being in Russia for the revolution, so he was operating in a period when there was death on the level of hundreds of millions. He also saw that the planet would go through such huge destruction on a periodic basis throughout history, so he wanted to try do something about it and change the course of this cycle of insanity. So his ambition was to set up spiritual groups in every main city on the planet which would process the tension and create the sort of vibrations needed in order to prevent the earth's need for further death on a big scale. So in light of that aim his merciless and ruthless attitude toward his students and himself is more understandable, he had a limited amount of time and energy in order to try fulfil this ambition of essentially creating a new worldwide lineage of genuine spiritual development which would last after his death, so his aim was far more important than trying not to upset other peoples feelings or maintaining his own reputation.

~~~~~~~~~ Mod Warning ~~~~~~~~~~ Simple Jack this is a warning for a personal insult. Any further insults and you will most probably face a suspension, further action may be taken when the other mods see the reports. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~