The Way Is Virtue

I thought I should also mention that there is the outer formal Daoist Religion and its doctrines and practices which is practiced by ordinary people, and there are the inner teachings and practices of Daoism that are passed in private from teacher to student. These may be somewhat different than what is presented outwardly in the religious doctrines and practices. As an example of what I am getting at, I remember reading a description of reincarnation and karma from a Taoist monk (I'll use the word monk for lack of a better term) based on his own personal understanding he had gained when practicing his sect's inner cultivation practices, and his description of rencarnation and karma were fairly similar to the concepts as they are described in Buddhism, but the outer religious teachings of Taoism do no describe the concepts in the same way. So there are different aspects to Taoism, the outer and the inner, so to speak.

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Some might express it as the different religions are different manifestations that arose in response to different specific needs in different places and times. If that is the case then it might be more correct to say that though they arise from the same source their manifestations are not exactly the same. Another more abstract way to say it is the normal creates the abnormal which attracts the normal, or in other words ponder the tai chi symbol (the yin yang symbol).

A little more background before I try to answer some of your questions: Although Taoism has a broad and diverse background, there are some fairly common beliefs and practices amongst the different traditions, and a few different versions of a Taoist canon were compiled in the past, which is a collection of what were considered to be the most important taoist writings. The point being that because Taoism was comprised of many diverse traditions and practices it is hard to make wide sweeping generalizations about Taoism. There are two main branches of Taoism that have survived today in China. They are Quanzhen Taoism and Zhengyi Taoism. Because Quanzhen Taoism places more emphasis on things like meditation and internal cultivation pracitces by its followers, some westerners may mistakenly think that Quanzhen Taoism does not include the religious beliefs and associated practices of Taoism, but this is not the case. Both branches include similar religious beliefs and associated practices although there are distinct differences in some their views and practices and they come from different traditions. From A General Introduction to Daoism in China (from the Chinese Taoist Association website) (This article is a very good short overview of Taoist beliefs and some of its history and should help regarding your questions on the main Taoist characteristics.) "Daoism believes that the universe contains 36 heavens above and 36 hells below. The highest heaven is called Da-luo Heaven. The next three heavens are the Realm of Absolute Purity; the four heavens after that are the Four Brahmas; while the rest of the 28 heavens include the Immaterial Realm (four heavens), the Material Realm (18 heavens), and the Realm of Desire (six heavens). Da-luo Heaven is wherein dwells the Celestial Worthy of Primordial Beginning, the Celestial Worthy of Numinous Treasure and the Celestial Worthy of the Way and Its Virtue; the Realm of Absolute Purity is the abode of nine grades of saints, realized beings and immortals. Those in the Four Brahmas are free of the pain of life and death; those in the Immaterial Realm enjoy longevity but are not free from the pain of life and death; while the people in the Realm of Desire experience all manner of desire as well as pain. The 36 hells are the netherworld where the souls of the deceased dwell. Daoism believes that the deceased will be judged by the Ten Kings of the netherworld. A benevolent person will be reincarnated, while an evil-doer will be subject to punishment in these hells." No, not necessarily. Neigong is an older term for internal qi cultivation and practices while qigong is a newer term that is generically used for all forms of qi cultivation and practices. Dao yin is also an older term for some forms of qigong practice that are somewhat yoga like. Hmm, I'm no expert but here goes (this is more from the Taoist perspective, I believe): jing - vital essence qi - vital energy (vitality) shen - spirit These terms are used in both Traditional Chinese Medicine and Taoism, although there may be differences in exactly how these terms are used in TCM and Taoism. I don't know the exact origin of these terms. I'm no expert on Taoist internal alchemy, but I don't think the idea is of cultivating perfect balance between the three treasures but more of cultivating positive essence, positive vitality, and then positive spirit. When one has fully cultivated positive spirit, one will have reached a stage of 'spiritual immortality'. So the alchemical process has more to do with transformation and refinement of jing, qi, and shen. That is just my limited understanding though and there are different Taoist traditions that include internal alchemy practices so some traditions may view it differently. The article I referenced above gives an overview of some of the different levels that Taoists believe are attainable through Taoist cultivation practices. There are different levels of 'immortality' in Taoism. The highest level of attainment in Taoism, although apparently indescribable, is somtimes referred to as complete integration with 'tao', which is also apparently indescribable.

I have noticed on numerous occasions in the past when I was practicing tai chi and sitting meditation fairly regularly, and now again that I am practicing zhan zhuang regularly that sometimes when I make physical contact with people when shaking hands or when paying cash for something at a store or whatever and the like that I can feel what certainly seems like some degree of energy getting passed from me to the other person. With some people it only seems to be a smaller amount, but with certain people who appear to be run down it seems like it can be a fair bit of energy and in some cases it can take as much as a week or more for me to start feeling my energy level coming back up again. With some people there seems to be what feels like an immediate electric shock feeling as soon as they touch me like some of my energy jumped across to the other person in a very sudden jolt. As I mentioned, in some of these cases I can feel quite a noticeable dropping in my energy level almost right away when this happens, and it can take a while to start building up my energy again. I can understand why some qigong practitioners prefer to go off into isolation for periods of time to practice qigong. I would guess I am not the only one who experiences this sort of thing, so I am wondering if people have any practical advice on ways to deal with this (other than not ever touching anyone, which is pretty hard to avoid in society ) and maybe any techniques on how to protect oneself more from this sort of thing? I suppose as one progresses further in their qigong practice they can rebuild their energy quicker when this happens, but are there techniques one can use to help prevent this from happening? Anybody else running into this?

Interesting. Yes, I guess in some cases it is not just a drawing off of some energy but maybe passing on of negative energy (some people call it 'sick energy' I believe) or as you say possibly even parasitic entities. Interesting about the ghost experience. I've never had an experience like that but there was a show on TV called Haunted or Haunting or something like that which I used to watch which re-enacted various haunting accounts reported by various people, mostly in the USA area. There were stories similar to what you describe of ghosts following people to other locations, as well as one story which I think was supposed to have taken place in Macau or maybe Taiwan or thereabouts where a US Ambassador or something like that brought his family over there since he was assigned over there, and the family moved into the Ambassador's residence there. They had various ghost type occurences going on which scared the family so bad they brought in a Taoist priest that had been recommended to them. The Taoist priest looked around the house and reported to them that it appeared the house had been designed and placed in such a way by its designer to invite or promote bad luck and negative energy and such, and the Taoist priest told the family that he could do a ceremony to make the problems stop for a few months, but he said he didn't think he could prevent the problems much longer than that and advised the family to move out of the house as soon as possible. That was the first I had heard of Feng Shui having a relationship to such things but then again I haven't ever studied Feng Shui at all. Interesting stuff though for sure.

[Edit:] I need to start using a spell checker. Regarding what is different between Buddhism and Taoism, I think the answer is not so straight forward. The reason is that what is called Taoism actually covers everything from Chinese folk religion practices, philosophy, formal Taoist religious sects (many of which have come and gone), and even some Taoist traditions/sects that have combined features of Buddhism, Confucianism, and Taoism. Like Buddhism, Taoism is a religion in China, and despite the wide variety of traditions and practices that are referred to as Taoism, most Taoists in China view Lao Tzu as being the main founder of Taoist thought, although there were others as well, and he is considered to be a deity by most Taoists. Formal religious Taoism did not start till a few centuries or so after Lao Tzu's time though. The concept of Taoism is further complicated these days where many lay practitioners refer to their practices as 'taoist', although there may be little real connection to formal Taoist religious organizations or Taoist followers. What is referred to as Buddhism today has a more clear origin starting with the teachings of Sakyamuni Buddha (AKA Gautama Buddha) somewhere in or near India, but which branched out into a wide variety of practices and traditions over the centuries and which spread all over the East. Buddhism is alo considered to be a religion although some of the practices in Buddhism focus more on self cultivation, as is the case with Taoism. [Edit:] Technically one can't be both a Buddhist and Taoist since they are both formal religions and one would traditionally follow one or the other, but considering that some later sects of Taoism incorporated aspects of Buddhism, and there are probably also people who respect and follow practices from both traditions so practically yes some people may consider themselves a follower of both religions. Nowadays, especially in the West, people are mixing and matching from various traditions and may refer to themselves as Taoists or Buddhists, but by the traditional definitions they would not really be a true follower of either, in my view anyway. It is just an indication of what tradition the qigong is supposed to have originated from although Taoist qigong overall seems to place more emphasis on the cultivation of internal energy while Buddhist qigong may be more externally based generally, but that is no hard and fast rule. Lao Tzu and Gautama Buddha were supposed to have lived around the same time give or take a century or two, but many Taoists say that many of the practices that are part of what is called Taoism actually go back for several thousand years prior to Lao Tzu. How far the practices really go back is hard to say for certain now though. The practices of Taoism are mainly of Chinese origin, while Buddhism originated from somewhere in the vicinity of India.

Thanks for the comments. Giving it more thought I really think it is simply a matter of energy just having the innate tendancy to want to flow from a higher charge to a lower charge, as my former tai chi teacher described it, and that was why he would sometimes use an object such as a wooden sword when adjusting beginner student's tai chi form. He would not be so careful when interacting with intermediate or senior students. So I am thinking it is not really something that needs to be 'fixed' so much as it being a natural tendancy that one needs to learn to work with. I can understand that someone who has not directly experienced this sort of thing might well be inclined to think it must be indicative of a problem that needs to be addresed and corrected, but that does not seem to match my experience. On a few occasions people have walked up to me from behind and touched me on the arm or shoulder as they start to talk to me and I have felt the sensation of energy passing to them right away. My experience is some people seem to be fairly 'expert' at doing this sort of thing, while with others it just seems to be that they are somewhat run down, although I am certain that in most cases they consciously don't realize that this is what is happening, and many probably do not even believe that such things are possible. If what I am saying is not too far off the mark then, yes, for the average person who does not practice qigong at all or not overly much then the net sum exchange of energy with others may be about 0 as you say, but I do think there is always some exchange of energy between people going on, both positive and negative, that mostly we are not consciously aware of but the balance of exchange may not be so even for some. I really think that at least in part for me that the issue may relate to leaving myself too open in certain ways, and I can probably learn to better control that with practice, but I also think that as I progress more it may be less of an issue as the exchange becomes less of a percentage of my overall energy level and I gain a better ability to recharge quicker and adjust for imbalances and such, but I don't know for certain. That is what I suspect anyway. It does seem that things are moving in that direction now that I am making the effort to practice regularly and to practice more. Sometimes things don't have to be too complicated.

Thanks very much for the feedback fiveelementtao. This is not a major concern to me as it seems to be less of a problem as I progress in my qigong practice, i.e., I can rebuild my energy somewhat quicker now and also smooth out any imbalances that may have resulted from it. Yes, I guess I could be unconsciously projecting energy without realizing it. I would guess that I should also gain somewhat better control over such things as I progress further in my practice.

Intersting info. Thanks! I will experiment with that a bit and see if it helps. Visualization is not the easiest for me but I should be able to manage that. I suppose one gets better at visualization with practice...

Not sure if this is what is going on in some cases but there do seem to be certain people I have run into from time to time who seem to make a point of always touching me on the arm or shoulder when they come to talk to me, and they can seem to draw off a fair bit of energy sometimes. Any suggestions on how better to deal with this sort of thing?

Yes, I do closing after finishing qigong practice, but I guess the problem could relate to the fact that I tend to continue practicing qigong fairly automatically throughout the day which may be leaving me too open, but I don't know. I'm not sure I am following you here. Are you saying that you think I could be unconsciouly giving away energy for some reason? Can you elaborate? I am thinking it is more likely a problem of continuiing practicing the qigong state throughout the day and maybe then being too open. My experience is that this mainly happens when I make physical contact mostly with people who appear to be at least somewhat run down, i.e. with people whose energy levels seem to be low. A former tai chi teacher of mine used to use items such as wooden tai chi swords or other such objects when teaching students when he wanted to help adjust their form by moving their arms or legs and such into proper position. He said it was because it is just like the case of connecting a stronger charged battery to a weaker charged battery where the charge will tend to start flowing right away from the stronger battery to the weaker battery. Not sure why this doesn't seem to be as much of a problem for other qigong practitioners though. I am thinking that I may need to learn to some energy/aura defense techniques to help control this sort of thing, but I am not sure what techniques there might be that come from qigong traditions?

[Edit:] Not sure what happened but this reply was created for my post above from me. I guess I was trying to answer my own question.

Cool! Let us know how you are making out. If you post in the Taoist Discussion forum here you may get more responses.

I tried something similar once and got back an interesting answer as well that seemed quite relevant to the question. Considering the way the I Ching is written I guess I have some doubts on whether tossing some coins to get the hexagram can really work, but I am open to the possibility that it really can work that way. I guess I should try using it more to get a better feel for the consistency of the answers. It's an interesting idea though for sure.

Hi Brian. Like I say I am no expert, but just commenting from another practitioner's perspective. You would think that the crane qigong should not be making you feel antsy or make it hard for you to sleep, so it might be a good idea if you could maybe even arrange to meet an instructor at the Chi Health Institute and go over the forms with them in person and see what they think. I guess it could just be the way you personally respond to this form of qigong, but it probably wouldn't hurt to consult with an experienced instructor of that system. I suspect that they will probably have some suggestions for you to help alleviate the problem.

Ok, sounds good. Ok on the Stillness Movement book. I think the Stillness Movement system involves attending a workshop as there are energy attunements or transmissions given by the teacher Michael Lomax (Ya Mu), from what I understand. I haven't read the book however. Yes, it is probably a good idea to stick to one method at least for some period of time to give the method a fair chance to see if it is suitable, and how effective it is. It probably doesn't hurt to look into other systems though to know what is out there and what the different approaches are, and that sort of thing. The problem seems to be that some people are fairly impatient these days and are always looking for quick results so they switch from system to system looking for quick results and end up not really giving any particular practice proper time and effort to have much chance of making progress. It does help to find a practice that we like though, so we may still have to go through some trial and error till we find something we really like.

Hi Brian. Its sounds like your practice may not be balanced in some way, like you are either over-doing the breathing such as breathing too intensely, or focusing incorrectly with your mind, or maybe just over practicing or over practicing certain techniques. What you describe sounds like you might possibly be generating too much yang energy, but I am no expert so take that with a grain of salt. At any rate it sounds like there may be an imbalance in your practice. If stopping practice for a week has helped with the problem then this would seem to be the case. It would be hard for someone who is not familiar with crane style qigong to say exactly where the problem might be in your practice. You can contact the Chi Health Institute at the email address listed on the following webpage and describe how you are practicing and what the problem and symptoms are and see if they can help you sort it out. Chi Health Institute One other thing to consider is are you doing some sort a qigong closing routine when you finish practicing the crane qigong routine? Does the crane qigong routine have a closing seqeunce? Sometimes not closing properly can cause imbalances as well. So those are some things to consider. If I was you I would not continue the crane practice until you get a better handle on this. Anyway, the folks at the Chi Health Institue should hopefully be able to offer you some advice on your situation.

Ok, sounds like a good approach. There are various approaches out there so I guess a person just has to go with what feels right, and what seems to work for them. I personally don't do well with any meditation techniques that involve visualization. I've tried a few techniques that use visualization and it just distracts me, and seems to be too much effort. I guess I am not a visually oriented person. Does the water method involve using any visualization?

Ha ha! Have you been doing zhineng qigong long? Hi jetsun. Can you describe the standing water method a bit, or do you have a link to a description? To do the abstinence thing one really has to keep one's mind off anything that is sexually stimulating. Also practicing meditation regularly helps to transform the sexual energy into a different form of energy, which helps prevent too much sexual energy from building up.

Hi dawg. Thanks for the clarification on your views. Good luck with your practice!

How are you making out with the San Xing Ping Zhan Zhuang Solmon? It looks like that stance will require some time to build up the leg strength to stand longer?