The Way Is Virtue

Hi Marblehead. Yes, maybe speaking out does sometimes help at least a bit. Best wishes...

As I said in my reply to VMarco, I do not think we should ever condone intolerance and violence in its many forms. Also, I think there is a major misunderstanding behind this notion that christians and muslims, etc. are mainly extremists chomping at the bit for war. Where I think the misunderstanding is, although I think it is actually sometimes a deliberate 'misunderstanding' used by some, is when you hear things like muslins are all or mostly terrorists or Christians are all or mostly right wing extremists and this sort of thing. If the majority of christians were extremists and gung ho for war then George Bush and his many associates would never have lost so badly in the last election, it seems to me. What actually happened is the majority of people seem to have rejected George Bush's extremist approach. My experience is that although it does seem that many Christians are closed minded towards other religions, the majority of Christians are not extremists and do not condone war and violence. In actual fact the majority of Christians seem to be involved a lot in charity work in the community and around the world and actually do a lot of very good work both home and abroad. The same for muslims. Muslims are estimated to make up roughly one fifth of the world's population (1.2 to 1.5 billion or so) and if the majority of them were extremists and terrorists as some people seem to think this world would have been in very deep trouble a very long time ago already. The reality is the extremists only seem to make up a smaller percentage of the population of muslims, but because the extremists' deeds often make major headline news, it may seem that the terrorists are more predominant than they actually are. When I speak of tolerance for religion or other beliefs I am not speaking of tolerance for religious extremism and terrorism, which is actually a major distortion of religion. I make a clear distinction between the majority of those who are religious or otherwise and who want to live peacefully, and religious extremists who distort religion and facts to suit their own evil purposes. There are certainly those from many backgrounds who do promote hatred and violence and in my opinion this should never ever be tolerated, but I think these people are actually in the minority by quite a bit. If they weren't in the minority I think this world would have been in shreds a long time ago already. Thankfully, at least since the last world war, the moderates have been in the majority for the most part and been able to maintain some degree of peace at least up until now anyway. I think it is important that we make the clear distinction between the minority of extremists who grossly distort religion and who promote violence and the majority of others who do not. [Edit:] I think these sorts of discussions can go on endlessly so I will drop out since I have said my piece. It is nice to have the opportunity to speak our minds but in the end what really changes? We don't have much control in this world over what other people all over the word think and how they act, but we can at least work on improving our self. That is at least something concrete that we can all work at. I am all talked out now. Best wishes...

HI Marblehead. Yeah, I am aware of how the topic started out, but I also saw at least one person trying to take it in a different direction which is what I was responding to. I think we agree for the most part but I would add that I think it is not just greed and a need for control that is behind it all however. Self-righteousness, ignorance, and intolerance and hatred and fear of that which is different and other such factors play a big role as well. This certainly does seem to occur whether religion has been involved or not. It is just that because religion has sometimes played a role that it is singled out by some. Communist Russia, Communist China, and Nazi Germany are all fairly recent examples of how extreme intolerance and terrible atrocities can occur even when religion is not the main driving factor, and the rise of the Roman empire and all that went along with it is an example in the past that was not mainly driven by religion. People may tend to overlook these sorts of things when they are just looking for ways to try to rationalize their disdain for religion, but there are many examples in history where massive intolerance and atrocities have been rampant and religion hasn't been the main driving factor. Religion has always played an important role in many cultures so it is hard to completely remove it from anything in history, but it clearly has not always been the main driving factor behind intolerance and war. Anyway, I think that about sums it up for me on this topic. Tolerance and compassion starts with each and every one of us regardless of our personal beliefs and views. Best wishes...

otp / Shaman Flowing Hands, I don't want to get this thread too far off track but I think it is only fair that people should be aware that you have been promoting shaman flowing hands and the shaman flowing hands website and writings and shaman flowing hands translation of the Dao De Ching here as possibly the 'most important Taoist of modern times' and of 'high import to westerners' and that sort of thing as if he was someone other than yourself, but as you know I stumbled across information that indicates pretty strongly that you and person who put up the shaman flowing hands website are actually the same person. Unless of course you can explain why the person who has been promoting shaman flowing hands in this forum and another Daoist web forum in exactly the same way happens to have the exact same first and last name and postal code as the person who registered shaman flowing hands web domain name? Those are the facts. Deny and attack if you must, but those are the facts. If there is an explanation, I haven't heard it. You seem to only want to attack instead. That says a lot. The rest that I wrote regarding intolerance and human nature is my point of view and I have expressed it as my point of view. I think that what I have said regarding intolerance and human nature has some sound basis, so I think it is at least worth consideration. Best wishes...

Hi InfinityTruth. One should not try to self diagnose such things. If you were hearing voices and having delusions then you really should visit a psychiatrist to get a professional opinion on your situation, as others also mentioned. These types of problems can be triggered or enhanced by using certain types of drugs or when consuming alcohol, so it would probably be a good idea to completely avoid such things until you at least get a professional opinion of your situation. Regarding meditation, I know some teachers will not teach meditation to someone with such problems as it can potentially further the problems. Practice of meditation should be done with caution. I am not saying it can't help in some cases, just that caution is probably a good idea. Best wishes...

As you know, I was just commenting on what is.

Hi otp. Still continuing with the self promotion thing? Translations of ancient abstruse writings like the Tao Te Ching will always be biased by the person or persons actually doing the translation whether they are Chinese or not or whether they are fluent and knowledgeable in ancient Chinese writing and culture or not. Also do you realize that Lao Tze's original writing was continuous script with no punctuation and no breaking into sentences and no breaking into chapters? The breaking into sentences and chapters was done by others later on. There is so much room for different interpretations in the original writing.

Hi otp. It all sounds fine to me, and I did change the course of my comments once I had realized a few things. I stand by my opinion that a person may possibly make up some things or otherwise misrepresent themself in some ways in order to promote their personal views and ideas. One certainly does not have to be seeking money or fame to do so. It is not such an uncommon occurrence, wouldn't you say? By the way, for someone to say they don't know about something, does not mean they necessarily believe something is not true. It just means they are reserving drawing a conclusion because they don't have sufficent basis to draw a definite conclusion either way. To complain that people don't believe even though they are Daoists or whatever doesn't make much sense to me. There have been and are so many predictions from many different sources of how or when the world is going to end, or how the world will be greatly destroyed and, to date, none of them have come true. I don't think it is too unreasonable for people to reserve blindly believing one more such prediction. However, it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is another major world war that involves nuclear weapons at some point in the future. I hope such a thing does not ever happen, but I don't know if there is much a person can do about trying to prevent such things except working on our own personal cultivation and trying to help others in this world and promote good will amongst different peoples as we can. Others may chant mantras or pray for better things to come if they are so disposed. At any rate, I have given my point of view so I will leave you with it. Best wishes to you...

the mystery of the mutual interaction of yin and yang clearly progresses beyond form

OK, now you've completely lost me. As I said, I was just giving my perspective since you asked what people think. Best wishes...

Hi otp. That's is quite OK. I wasn't trying to convince you or anyone else of anything. Just giving my own personal point of view on the matter, since you asked.

Here is a link to someone's description of their personal experience with using qigong to help with their ME: http://www.taichiunion.com/magazine/qigongch.html and here is a link to a website for someone who sells a qigong DVD which is supposed to be specifically for helping with ME: http://www.mecures.co.uk/

Hi otp. Actually I did comment on that. What I said was I think that since there is no way to interact with this person it is very hard to know where they are really coming from and what their real motives are. I also said that this person may just want to promote their own views and beliefs and it certainly seems possible to me anyway that they could have made up some things to try to lend more weight to their views. A person does not have to be seeking money or fame to want to spread and promote their own views and beliefs to others. Various religious and political groups do that sort of thing all the time with much of the work often being done by volunteers who do not make any money and such from their efforts. I am not saying that I think that this is necessarily the case here, just that I think there is no way of determining one way or the other given the circumstances. Best wishes...

Hi Steve. I don't know that we really disagree on anything. You have provided some good insights into fajin. I was just adding that in my understanding there are different ways to fajin and different levels of attainment. I think all is good.

Nah. You seem to be overlooking that you are more than just one fist or one foot or one shoulder, etc. We are talking about taijiquan, with the emphasis on taiji and yin and yang. While my left hand is empty and leading the attackers force off my center into my left foot, my right hand can move forward to push or strike. While my upper back is leading the attackers force off my center into my right foot, my lower left leg can be stepping back to the left and my left elbow swinging towards the attacker's abdomen, etc. etc., etc. Yin and yang, substantial and insubstantial, all working together as one. As I understand the theory, there are many ways to fajin and different levels of attainment as well. You have neglected to mention generating force using internal energy (qi), which is the foundation of the internal martial arts. We relax to allow the unrestricted flow of qi in our body and use yi to direct the qi in synchronization with our movement. Yi and qi combine as one and the body follows. This is the foundation of an internal art. Without this foundation it is not an internal art. Of course there are different levels of attainment and you certainly can't use internal energy to generate force if you haven't developed much internal energy yet and learned the proper use of yi, relaxation, differentiating yin and yang, alignment, etc. The lower levels of achievement will show much more obvious force (mainly physics and body mechanics) and the higher levels will show much less obvious force. I almost get the feeling that some are wanting to remove the foundational internal energy cultivation aspect from taijiquan. So, the qi is only cultivated to improve health or to strengthen muscles then and qi is useless in a self defenser application? It is all only physics and mechanics? Hmmm, some of you must be reading different internal arts classics than the ones I have read. This is all just my own point of view of course based on my own current limited understanding, but I just thought I would add my two cent's worth to this. Best wishes...

Stig, I think it is quite clear that I am not objecting to questons being asked or anyone checking different people out to see what their skill level is. I was objecting to implications by yourself and a few others here that certain people are fakes and such based solely at looking at a video. Enough said.

Hi ChiDragon. Yes both 'destiny' and 'fate' have the meaning of 'meant to be', so that may be close to what you are looking for...

Hi ChiDragon. A person certainly can't get away from breathing anyway, so breathing is certainly always a part of qigong. As a couple of people have mentioned, there are forms of qigong where no special breathing is taught, both static and dynamic. One just either sits or stands or does the movements and calms the mind and does not pay any attention to breathing. That doesn't mean that breathing does not change naturally over time as progress is made in one's practice. Breathing will begin to change naturally over time in my experience, naturally becoming much deeper and slower and softer (and synchronized to movements if one is doing movements). To me, what is natural in regards to breathing means what is natural at a person's current level. As a person progresses in the qigong practice what is natural for breathing may change to become abdominal breathing or even reverse abdominal breathing, and maybe even become foetal breathing or body breathing where one seems to be almost not breathing through the nose at all. I agree with others however that qi (氣 or 气) , although literally meaning 'air' or 'gas' or 'vital breath', is often translated by both traditional and modern Chinese teachers of qigong as 'vital energy' or 'life force' or similar. I understand you are objecting to this definition and prefer a more literal definition of the term, but various chinese qigong teachers do seem to use a definition similar to 'vital energy'. It is not just westerners who use this definition. Best wishes...

Another possible noun might be 'destiny' but that is really similar in meaning to 'fate'.

Not too much... We are just ghost demons after all.

I see. A possible noun might be 'reason', as something is caused for a reason, but maybe that is not right either. This laowai has poor wuxing in regards to the Chinese language.

So, the word 'predestined' is not close in meaning for 'yuan' in this context?