The Way Is Virtue

That's funny. I don't know anything about Braco but maybe this had something to do with it? I wonder what this 'seven second rule' for videos is about.:

Whether one thinks that these sort of healings are just the placebo effect and such or not, his story is interesting. Here is a short documentary on him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcal5BjK7x8&feature=related

I personally have found both of these books very good, especially Fools Crow: Fools Crow: Wisdom and Power Black Elk Speaks: Being the Life Story of a Holy Man of the Oglala Sioux

Thanks for posting this Kathy. Hopefully somebody here can translate this. I will be interested to read it. My ability to translate is limited to software translation tools which only lets me get part of the meaning.

Hello exorcist. I am finding your input and views on Taoist cultivation quite helpful and valuable. There are no doubt others that appreciate your input as well. I think there is a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding in the West in regards to Taoism and Taoist practices, so having more input from all different perspectives can only be better. Best wishes...

Hello Fabrizio, Do either of the two Ching dynasty alchemy texts (性命圭旨 and 大成捷要), or the contemporary books on Taoist cultivation by 田诚阳 appear of any interest to you? Were you aware of any of these books previously? Just wondering what your view is on these books? Best wishes...

Interesting info Exorcist.

Ok, thanks for the info on those books.

I have read the translation of The Secret of The Golden Flower by Thomas Cleary, which seems to be a good translation, but I don't know too much more about it beyond that. I would say that JJ Semple's interpretation and views are his own personal interpretation and views but I don't know much about his stuff so I can't comment on specifics. I can't speak of samadhi as I am not there yet but I can say that as I have experienced a more free flow of qi in my body I am more relaxed and more calm in daily life and in meditation. I am quite OK to allow my meditation to progress at its own natural pace and I personally think one is less likely to run into problems and less likely to get off on a sidetrack by holding to a simple and natural approach. Sometimes the simplest of approaches is the most effective in the long run if one can keep oneself from second guessing and over analyzing and otherwise interfering with the process. An important foundation of meditation is sometimes referred to as calming the heart. This aspect is sometimes overlooked which may lead to people feeling discontent or impatience and thinking that they need to expand on the simple basics somehow to intentionally move the process along quicker by looking for external 'additions' to satisfy this feeling of discontent. When the heart is calm and the mind is calm and one is sitting or standing with the body aligned naturally straight and relaxed without any forcing, and the breathing is relaxed and natural, there is really nothing more needed IMO. In Taoism there is a concept of wuji. This is the state of non-being from which all being is said to arise from. So wuji 'contains' the full potential of all things. All things arise naturally from wuji and no artifical interference or direction or additions are required and will only actually be a hinderance to the naturally unfolding processes. IMO. many taoist concepts and principles are actually fairly simple but can contain deep and rich meaning that can only be hinted at, but we tend to want to add all kinds of constructs to such simple concepts and principles to fit in with our way of thinking and our expectations. Anyway, that is just some thoughts from my perspective. You will no doubt encounter many perspectives.

Hi Andrew. It sounds to me like you are taking a good approach to it all. From what you have described, the sensations you are feeling do sound like the sensations that can be produced by the movement of qi within the body. So, this can certainly be considered as a possible sign that your meditation is effective. You will probably find that from that basic starting point different people will likely have somewhat different views on how one should proceed from that point. Some might say that you should shift your awareness to some area or point on your body. Others might say that you should try to use your mind to try to control your qi to some extent or other. Others might say you should not pay attention to any sensations or vibrations or movement or images, etc., and just continue on without attaching the mind to anything that is happening and allow things to progress as they will. The reason for these diiferent perspectives is there are many different traditions and variations of traditions, and even different understandings, and thus many different points of view. Things could get more confusing rather than clearer. I think it never hurts to educate onself a bit on different traditions and techniques and try to find something that seems to resonate with you after you have a broader overview of various traditions and approaches, and can do some informed comparison. On the other hand, you may just come across something right from the start that resonates with you and works for you and you are all set right from the start. Since this is a Taoist discussion forum I will say that a common Taoist approach to meditation usually (at least starts out) with one keeping an awareness to some degree or other (not a strong or forced focus) on the lower dan tian area, which is usually described as being an area inward a few inches from the navel, although there are some variations on where it is described as being located. Combining this with relaxed, smooth and deep natural breathing is a good way to naturally build up more qi. This does not require any special effort or intention or direction from the mind. As the qi begins to naturally build up more and circulate more freely throughout the body, one tends to naturally start to become more relaxed and calm and can naturally start going into deeper states of meditation. You can do this sort of meditation standing or sitting, or even walking or lying down. However, as I mentioned, I think you will find all sorts of variations on this basic theme. Some methods using special breathing, and some using special mind intent to try to direct qi, etc. Hope this provides some help to you, and good luck in your practice...

Hi RV. Thanks, I decided to remove my comment on this because I didn't want to risk sidetracking Andrew's thread. It is one thing to make a claim like this and quite another thing to be able to prove it, but I don't wish to sidetrack this thread so i will leave it at that. I will check out those links though...

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Hi Andrew. You can experience various things when meditating such as sensations or images or other visual stuff. I think that is not too unusual in meditation practice. It is good to follow one particular meditation system if you can though. Can you clarify what specifically you are looking for more info on?

Thank you very much Exorcist. Have you read either of these two books? Would you say that they provide fairly clear information, or is the information fairly difficult to follow? One description of those two books that I have read stated that both of these books provided very clear and useful details about alchemy practice.

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Welcome to the discussion Andrew. Interesting experience. I have not experinced anything very similar in my own meditation practice so far, but I do recall reading that one of Wang Liping's meditation students reported seeing the inside of their body as appearing as all jewels or crystals or something like that. It may indicate a bit of a change in your practice. Not sure. I think Exorcist's comment regarding ignoring such experiences is to keep from distracting the mind. Of course if that is what you experienced, you can't help from experiencing it. I think the idea though is not to get attached to such experiences which can distract the mind and interfere with your ongoing meditation practice. My experiences in my meditation practice are more in the way of various sensations although sometimes I do see flashes of light and such, but my experience with this type of meditation practice is still at a beginning level, which I guess would be the level of 'laying the foundations'. Maybe someone with more experience in this sort of meditation practice can provide further insigthts into the experience you had. Are you normally a fairly visual person in the sense of being able to visualize things fairly easily in your mind? I think that I am not a very visual person.

This website: http://www.itmonline.org/arts/astragalus.htm states that daily dosages as much as 30g are sometimes used in Chinese herbal formulas. Another website I saw said 2 to 8 grams. It may depend on the form it is in though. The powder may be more concentrated per weight than the dried root. Not sure. The Chinese traditionally uses the herb for various conditions relating to qi difficiency, it seems. I guess you could always try half a teaspoon twice a day and see if that is any better for you.

What form did you take it in and in what dosage? I've taken astragalus capsules before and have never noticed any side effects at all. I think the capsules I took were around 500 mg per capsule. Are you taking any other herbs or medication currently? Could be coincidence or could maybe be an interaction with other herbs or medication that you are taking, or could be you took too much, or you could maybe have an allergy to it. Lots of variables... Hard to say.

Some internal alchemy traditions seem to mainly emphasize 'holding on to the one' and 'cultivating stillness', from what I have seen. In these traditions one does not focus on such things as jing, qi, or shen, or merging of the five elements, or external medicine and internal medicine, etc, in their meditation, since one should instead be calming the false heart and cultivating stillness of mind in their meditation instead. If one can really calm the false heart and still the mind in their meditation all the other processes happen naturally of their own accord and with their own natural timing. If one 'stirs one's mind' during this process one can actually interfere with the process and potentially even cause problems. The detailed internal alchemy theory described in some texts can be helpful though so one can recognize what 'stages' they have reached in their meditation and also have a better understanding of what is going on within them. Both of the texts the 'Nei Ye' and 'Qing Jing Jing' seem to be of the view that this is a natural process which unfolds when one can properly 'hold on to the one' and cultivate real stillness of the mind in their meditation. There are references to this being the key in the Dao De Jing as well, I believe. Regarding whether one can encounter 'assistance' along the way, I think this might depend somewhat on one's 'virtue'. It is not without reason that some teachers put strong emphasis on cultivating virtue before putting emphasis on meditation practice. The idea of virtue in Taoism can be viewed in different ways or from different perspectives, but the meaning does emcompass what we commonly think of as virtue as well, from my understanding. I don't think it is realistic to think that one can get far in such practices without putting much emphasis on the cultivation of virtue. Being able to cultivate qi to a large extent or other in itself does not necessarily require a high degree of 'virtue', from what I have observed anyway, but in internal alchemy one's goal is to cultivate to a very high level of spiritual attainment (not to just cultivate qi), and realistically it is not very likely that a person of lower virtue will be able to reach a very high level in such practice. Any achievement people of lower virtue may imagine they have is really not so high, but others might be fooled because such people may have some degree of mastery over qi and they may think that this person must therefore be quite 'spiritually advanced'. In my experience this is not necessarily the case at all. It was for very good reason that traditionally masters chose a disciple very carefully. It wasn't because they wanted to keep secrets from people so much as it was a practical matter of not wasting their time and not passing on practices to someone who would only likely do harm to themself or others if they were to learn such practices. The actual meditation methods are not so complicated but the cultivation of the self (cultivation of one's heart) is where the real hard work is done, IMO. This is just my personal point of view of course. Best to everyone in their cultivation and practice.

A hiccup occurred when editing my post above. Seems to have created this extra reply..

Hi marble. The Dao De Jing speaks of low virtue and high virtue. We must all start with where we are at and work from there. When the Dao De Jing describes low virtue as involving doing and high virtue as involving non-doing, it is not passing judgement, but pointing out the different actualizations. In actual practice, we have to start with where we are at. By practicing 'low virtue' we begin to refine or dissolve the 'false heart' (in modern terms, the ego). Cultivating the true heart (our true nature) is an ongoing process. If we do not start from where we are and work from there we are only chasing pipe dreams. IMO, Taoism at its essence is about practicality, it is not just about abstract concepts that can't be put into practical use. Taoism at its essence is really just ways of putting the concepts of taoism into practical use.

Hi manitou. I personally am currently of the opinion that the Dao De Jing does include the whole process. IMO, there is much encoded in there...

Aye, there are no doubt many parallels between different traditions.