Harmonious Emptiness

Well yes, he does say that it was passed down by word of mouth, but then goes on to say that he is going to reveal it, as quoted. As for methods, I wouldn't agree with that either. For example, from chapter four: For the record, I'm not claiming to be a Neidan master, teacher, expert or anything else. I'm just looking for clarification on statements that don't make sense to me.

From Secret of the Golden Flower (Lu Dongbin), chapter three (see modern Mandarin text at http://www.thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/ch3.html) and from chapter one Also from chapter one So you can see why I'm not convinced that "secret methods" cannot be learned from the texts.

You may draw lots of criticism and the attention of jealous people, which can be useful if you're committed to self refinement. They look a lot harder to find our faults than we do....

Hiding in a kernel Effortless change makes things right These simple duties

--

http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewdepaula/2012/11/08/teens-create-a-way-to-use-urine-as-fuel/

“At Ohio University, where there are about 22,000 students, if we would collect the urine and produce hydrogen, we would be able to produce enough electricity to perhaps power about 100 to 150 residential houses for a year, continuously.” Still pretty good considering it would be waste water management too

No seriously - they made a generator that runs on PISS! "When the world has the Way, ambling horses are retired to fertilize [fields]. When the world lacks the Way, war horses are reared in the suburbs." - DDJ47

In any case opendao, thank you for bringing your perspective here. It appears we won't be communicating in mutually understood terms, but I appreciate your resolve to preserve true teachings.

Well with such a literalist way of understanding these words, I'm not surprised you find the texts misleading. "Purify the mind of the mind" might have been a better way to explain, but you'd probably prefer I said "but there's no mind to purify, yadayadayada." When you have a limited terminological understanding of these terms, they will seem, naturally, limited and incorrect. Don't worry about it, I'm sure it won't be the one in your cue cards. I fully respect the fact that you have found a teacher, and fairly confident that his lineage history is true. But I'm not getting a sense of broad understanding from yourself, at least in your critique/understanding of my own offerings, and so it's difficult for me to take what you say as "gospel" versus just another opinion based on an undetermined amount of understanding beyond what, for all I know, might just be dogma kool aid handed out at the meet and greet (which might last indefinitely). I know there are paths which one likely won't succeed on without a guide who's been there before, but I don't think all the maps that were drawn (the texts) are incomprehensible, nor unusable, nor made to be so for everyone who's not initiated. Either way, I know millions of people throughout history with four-fold the dedication I have to it were not fulfilled in their pursuits, so I'm happy to settle down on the paths to enjoy the view, and maybe even catch wind of the summit dweller's songs from time to time....

That's why I ask "why must one not sit while the mind is purified?" I would agree that there are practices which are for training, and then there is when the light is turned on and something else is happening, which I think was expressed in my first post a few pages ago. Once that light is turned on, I can see why one would say "it's not by your methods that a b and c." Once you connect to the Source, the methods are forgotten. I'm getting the impression that people are getting hung up on isolated quotations about methods, perhaps without fully understanding them. And also, it would seem for as many times as I've read "the method is not written," I've read "the truth is only written in secret codes, but out of compassion for humanity I will tell you what it means and the way to get there." At this point, I still don't know that the people we're talking to have enough background knowledge to say what they're saying, even though they might otherwise be getting a far better education on the matter than, well, me at least...

I don't have the original scripture in Chinese, but I can see by the translation that it is obviously describing sitting meditation. The tone of this conversation is no longer fit to bring in sacred textual references. Perhaps you will be kind enough to explain: why must one not sit while the mind is purified?

I haven't mentioned meditation here either, though sitting meditation is said by Lu Dongbin to be the method of purifying the mind of falsehoods and pollutions. Not to say that the results and gains (gains of space) don't leave the mat with you. Thank you

".... So we know that craving is the root of emotions. If you try to control emotions forcibly without extirpating the root, you control nothing but outgrowths..." "How can you remove emotions? The way to remove them is to think there is no self. What is called no self? The self is originally not self; we are not these selves. So what does the self cleave to? Once there is a self and you cling to it as yourself, when clinging to the self as yourself, then nothing is not self. When nothing is not self there is nothing to which the self does not cleave. The country is not one's own, yet one will die for love of it; the home is not one's own, yet one will die for love of it;... When you meditate in this way, what craving will not disappear?" - saying of Lu Dongbin in Cleary's "Vitality, Energy, Spirit" He also explains how to attain purity, tranquility, and clarity, with quite a few words actually, paragraphs even. There are also many other texts which echo his instructions, for further assurance that the instructions were clear and understood. And yes, he does say that texts can be misleading, but explains that this is due to the vague names given, like fire and water, which he and others clarify. For each text that uses these esoteric names, there is another which explains what they mean. Yes, many teachers tried to keep the teachings esoteric and unknown, but there were many others who sought to help those who could not find these masters, by explaining what they meant in their texts. The Book of Balance and Harmony is one of these texts, as well as the writings of Liu I Ming. When you find out what they meant in the texts, true you can see more of the same guidance in some of the more canonical texts. I hope you will reconsider your "impulsive actions" in jumping to conclusions and acting belligerent from those assumptions. This will not help your Inner Work a bit. "Human nature and feelings are such that people all wish to consider themselves wise and hate to be inferior to others. If you wish to consider yourself wise, then contentiousness arises; if you hate to be inferior to others, then resentment and conflict arise. When resentment and contention arise, then the mind is deranged and one's attitude becomes vicious. Therefore the sage kings of ancient times withdrew from contention and resentment. When contention and resentment do not arise, then the mind is orderly and the attitude is harmonious. Therefore it is said that if sagacity is not valued, this will cause the people not to contend." Wenzi, chapter 132

You're missing the obvious wording of the text. I've compared Cleary's translations before. He does use an extensive English vocabulary at times which can make one uncertain of the terms being translated, but you can see that he was translating questions preceding answers, a common literary device in Taoist texts. He wouldn't/doesn't change the flow of the text that much. "The three treasures are not easily obtained. Since they are not easy to obtain, how can we not take care of them? They are to be taken care of, and this is accomplished by purity and tranquility, not agitating the vitality, not letting it leak, so that it abides peacefully in its original home, true to reality as it is, circulating three hundred and sixty-one times in a day and night, returning to its original home, true to its own nature, immutable, forming the stabilizing ingredient of the elixer of immortality." "How is energy to be guarded? This requires freedom from craving, clear openness and serenity, not acting impulsively."

Also, you say that Lu Dongbin is talking about something entirely beyond the reach of what we're talking about. But read the instructions he gives. He is says to be "free from craving.. not acting impulsively.. stop rumination (of the thoughts)." If Lu is talking about a level so far beyond, wouldn't craving, impulse, and ruminating thoughts be long since passed? It seems to me you've missed some important details in your pursuit to taunt other members and prove your superior knowledge.

The directions are quite clear and fitting to my experience. I'd be careful to take someone else's words as my own knowledge, in this case the vague suggestions of higher access leading to fantastic notions beyond anyone's experience. There's always higher levels, however I have no reason to think you have any idea how to get anywhere beyond a debate within the paradigms of theory. I dont think these texts were written clearly in order to mislead but meant what was said when it was said clearly as it was in the above example. The instructions are really quite clear and simple and consistent in the texts. Why should I follow someone who claims that only they can explain what they really mean? They have more credit to me than anyone's personal claims towards the same end of which they have no personal experiential grasp.

I think this quote might help, from Cleary's "Vitality, Energy, Spirit," sayings of Lu Dongbin: Stabilizing Vitality The three treasures are not easily obtained. Since they are not easy to obtain, how can we not take care of them? They are to be taken care of, and this is accomplished by purity and tranquility, not agitating the vitality, not letting it leak, so that it abides peacefully in its original home, true to reality as it is, circulating three hundred and sixty-one times in a day and night, returning to its original home, true to its own nature, immutable, forming the stabilizing ingredient of the elixer of immortality Guarding Energy Vitality is always controlled by energy. Once energy runs outside, vitality eventually leaks out. Therefore, to stabilize vitality one should guard the energy. How is energy to be guarded? This requires freedom from craving, clear openness and serenity, not acting impulsively [...] Preserving Spirit The firing is the spirit. Vitality cannot be concentrated except by energy, but vitality and energy cannot be operated without the spirit to stabilize the vitality, and nurturing the energy is just a matter of preserving the spirit. In the work of preserving the spirit, it is important to stop rumination, with nothing coming out from within and nothing coming in from outside. With all signs of emotion gone, one plunges into a state of boundlessness, lightness, blissful fluidity, tranquil independence. My humble understanding of this is that essentially one must be stabilized and self aware, and not rigid so as to allow the jing to be "true to its own nature" while being stabilized and not leaked out. The directions for energy are very similar, as well as those for spirit. In fact the directions are not even so difficult for an experienced meditator, especially with chi awareness from chi gung. So once the vitality is stabilized and the energy is guarded, the work takes place at the level of spirit. The vitality and energy are somewhat passive in the firing process, and it is at or from the level of spirit that the process is really happening. So, though jing and chi are stabilized first, the transformation really begins from shen. So, you're both right, but the terminology may be less in agreement.

Does anyone know where I could get an English copy of this text? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_of_Music Or information about Shao and Huo music? I'm wondering after reading Ch'an master Zibo "In the 'Classic of Music' this mind became the shao music and the huo music" I couldn't find much about any of this online.

Wow awesome - thanks!

Love is all we need Not just to smoke some weed and Write songs about it

This may have been said in part by others here, but I think the main thing is know that you are okay without attaining. It's still great to have goals and ambitions, imo. You learn a lot about yourself and everything else when striving for them. But you need to do so with the right perspective. "Don't sell your soul to gain the world." The other thing is that too often ambitions are seeking to aggrandize the self, or substitute for the self. This of course will end up empty handed, and in more want with less hope. Best to be free of such a need in the first place. To me, this is the point of transcending ambitions. How better to train the self against difficult people than by being with difficult people? How better to transcend ambitions than by striving for them? Whatever issues you have towards them will pop up, allowing you to recognize and work on those issues. It's more of the "push you out of the nest" way of learning, but also the most "real world" experience way. You also need a regimen to keep you connected to your pursuit though, which is greater than the ambitions themselves.

ah, everybody's! this poem will get no likes does it make a sound?

Five Fighters from Shaolin [1982] and Taiji boxer [1992] are both worth watching.

I'll see if I can explain it. Basically, working in a kitchen, you can't hesitate, and when you don't hesitate you usually do things with the right amount of effort to do them the best you could. For example, you want to flip a fish filet, you poke at it and see it's pretty stuck to the grill, so you carefully work around the sides to get at it and eventually pull it up with a bit of damage. There's no time for that in a professional kitchen. You have to learn to do everything the first time the way you do it that time. You have to slide that spatula with strength, confidence, and a balance of calm awareness. When cleaning it's the same thing. You can't go "I'm gonna grab the broom here and carefully try not knock anything or make unnecessary noises when I pull it out of the closet." You have to just grab and go. The next day you plan to clean your house, watch a good kung fu movie for a bit until you feel like kicking ass. You know how they do everything like "RAAAHHHH!" and it makes you want to do the same - apply it to the way you clean, scrub, etc.. With cooking it's a bit more of a balance though, for energetically aware people like ourselves, as you don't want to insult the food or the client by putting repressed anger into the ingredients. That's why it's good to train things like "Bagua teacups" (see my PPD for example) so that you can move quickly but smoothly. You use your body weight and positioning as leverage a la tai chi, rather than agression. You need to keep a harmonious mind in the process, while moving fast and gracefully, without holding anything back, effort wise. edit to add: I use "insult the food" as an improper borrowing from TCM terminology like "the liver insults the spleen" as in an energetic insult.