Harmonious Emptiness

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Everything posted by Harmonious Emptiness

  1. Top 5 Revisted

    In no particular order integrity of practice/mindfulness throughout the day cooking and cleaning kung fu style (practicing no hesitation) learning and playing improvisational music (practicing no hesitation) qigong/taiji foundation practices sitting meditation
  2. [TTC Study] Chapter 5 of the Tao Teh Ching

    Personally, I feel like the straw dogs and offering analogy is similar to the Buddhist teaching of emptiness. All things are empty, yet all things are substantial. We know their emptiness without forgetting that they are also substantial and so respect them as substantial without forgetting that they are ultimately empty. Straw dogs are treated with great respect, but it is not forgotten that even though they are treated with such utmost respect, they are ultimately empty of substantial existence. So we may still appreciate and even admire their awesomeness and beauty, but we know that underneath, they are still simply straw. This does not mean they should not be valued, but that the ultimate reality should not be forgotten. Nurture and care for the people, but do not become distraught over the ultimate reality that we are all no more substantial than dry grass destined to evaporate and dissolve back to Heaven and Earth. One only needs to look at the language of wu/non-existence and you/existence in the Dao De Jing to know that such ideas were already present in China, previous to the arrival of Buddhism and Buddhist philosophies.
  3. The Yue Ji, Confucian "Classic of Music"

    "10. Thus we see that the ancient kings, in their institution of ceremonies and music, did not seek how fully they could satisfy the desires of the appetite and of the ears and eyes; but they intended to teach the people to regulate their likings and dislikings, and to bring them back to the normal course of humanity. 11. It belongs to the nature of man, as from Heaven, to be still at his birth. His activity shows itself as he is acted on by external things, and developes the desires incident to his nature. Things come to him more and more, and his knowledge is increased. Then arise the manifestations of liking and disliking. When these are not regulated by anything within, and growing knowledge leads more astray without, he cannot come back to himself, and his Heavenly principle is extinguished. 12. Now there is no end of the things by which man is affected; and when his likings and dislikings are not subject to regulation (from within), he is changed into the nature of things as they come before him; that is, he stifles the voice of Heavenly principle within, and gives the utmost indulgence to the desires by which men may be possessed. On this we have the rebellious and deceitful heart, with licentious and violent disorder. The strong press upon the weak; the many are cruel to the few; the knowing impose upon the dull; the bold make it bitter for the timid; the diseased are not nursed; the old and young, orphans and solitaries are neglected:--such is the great disorder that ensues. 13. Therefore the ancient kings, when they instituted their ceremonies and music, regulated them by consideration of the requirements of humanity. By the sackcloth worn for parents, the wailings, and the weepings, they defined the terms of the mourning rites. By the bells, drums, shields, and axes, they introduced harmony into their seasons of rest and enjoyment. By marriage, capping, and the assumption of the hair-pin, they maintained the separation that should exist between male and female. By the archery gatherings in the districts, and the feastings at the meetings of princes, they provided for the correct maintenance of friendly intercourse. 14. Ceremonies afforded the defined expression for the (affections of the) people's minds; music secured the harmonious utterance of their voices; the laws of government were designed to promote the performance (of the ceremonies and music); and punishments, to guard against the violation of them. When ceremonies, music, laws, and punishments had everywhere full course, without irregularity or collision, the method of kingly rule was complete[1]."
  4. Cultivation of the Mind

    Anyone else get the sense that Ming is like post-heaven, emotions, physicality, thoughts, karma essentially, which needs to be worked on; while Xing is like pre-heaven, purity which needs to be brought to the forefront, "the observer," the pure awareness which sees the difference? Ming is always there so long as we are more than simple, pure, awareness, and so it is necessary to cultivate it, to tame the horse on which we're riding. I said in another thread that meditation is largely about taming the mind which is the horse on which we ride - allowing it to be natural and still a horse, but not agitated, etc.. The mind in this case is more like Ming from my perspective; it is the post-heaven energy which becomes thought. The Nei Ye helps with this training: If you can be aligned and be tranquil,Only then can you be stable.With a stable mind at your core,With the eyes and ears acute and clear,And with the four limbs firm and fixed,You can thereby make a lodging place for the vital essence.The vital essence: it is the essence of the vital energy.When the vital energy is guided, it [the vital essence] is generated,But when it is generated, there is thought,When there is thought, there is knowledge,But when there is knowledge, then you must stop.Whenever the forms of the mind have excessive knowledge,You loose your vitality. So cultivating Ming (again, in my perspective) is cultivating this knowledge which is sort of at the liminal level of thought, such as body knowledge, and experience. It might be that the training assists in gaining the power and ability to work with Ming at it's strongest place: stability, clarity, and the place of qi and jing. By "speaking this language" of Ming, deeper levels may then be explored. It's all post-heaven mind-play to try and figure out, describe, and verbalize these things, but it is by the Ming, Destiny, that Xing, original Nature, is known (if'n y'ask me.). With just pure Xing, there's no consciousness of Xing, you just are it - like right now, you're not aware that you're Xing, but you're Xing.
  5. [TTC Study] Chapter 5 of the Tao Teh Ching

    Yes, and also, this focus of the straw dogs being trampled on appears largely to be a more modern scholarly thing, based on the excerpt from Chuang Tzu which came much later than Chapter Five. The excerpt from Chaung Tzu is talking about timing. Confucius wants to teach about rituals, but rituals change and the places he wants to go are in changing circumstances. For him to do so would be like taking the straw dogs and sleeping under them to have good dreams, except taking them after the ceremony when they have been discarded would bring bad dreams because they they were no longer objects of veneration and had been sitting on the ground etc. I think our main mistake here is understanding straw dogs as things that are treated badly. It seems the use of bu ren, followed by the description in Chuang Tzu has led to the confusion on the chapter. With more context of what bu ren means, we can have a better understanding of how the people are straw dogs (wei can also say that something is something)
  6. [TTC Study] Chapter 5 of the Tao Teh Ching

    Some passages from Chuang Tzu (Watson trans.) which I think help to illuminate the ideas presented in Chapter Five. I opened a random page of Chuang Tzu last night and came upon the following in section 14, which led me to read section 13 tonight. I think you will see that they help to support my earlier assertions about the context of Chapter Five: from section 14: Music Master Chin said, "Before the straw dogs are presented at the sacrifice, they are stored in bamboo boxes and covered over with patterned embroidery, while the impersonator of the dead and the priest fast and practice austerities in preparation for fetching them. But after they have once been presented, then all that remains for them is to be trampled on, head and back, by passers-by; to be swept up by the grasscutters and burned. We can see here that the straw dogs, though discarded after the ceremony, were also treated with utmost respect and care, where priests would even fast and practice austerities before even picking them up. Furthermore, the evidence doesn't show that they were trampled as part of the ceremony. It is only afterwards, when the effigies lie abandoned on the field, that they are trampled on "by passers-by" and eventually swept up and burned by those who tend the field. (from section 13) Lao Tan said, "May I ask your definition of benevolence and righteousness?" Confucius said, "To be glad and joyful in mind; to embrace universal love and be without partisanship - this is the true form of benevolence and righteousness." Lao Tan said, "Hmm - close-except for the last part. `Universal love' - that's a rather nebulous ideal, isn't it? And to be without partisanship is already a kind of partisanship. Do you want to keep the world from losing its simplicity? Heaven and earth hold fast to their constant ways, the sun and moon to their brightness, the stars and planets to their ranks, the birds and beasts to their flocks, the trees and shrubs to their stands. You have only to go along with Virtue in your actions, to follow the Way in your journey, and already you will be there. Why these flags of benevolence and righteousness so bravely upraised, as though you were beating a drum and searching for a lost child? Ah, you will bring confusion to the nature of man!" [...] (also from section 13) The Master said: The Way does not falter before the huge, is not forgetful of the tiny; therefore the ten thousand things are complete in it. Vast and ample, there is nothing it does not receive. Deep and profound, how can it be fathomed? Punishment and favor, benevolence and righteousness - these are trivia to the spirit, and yet who but the Perfect Man can put them in their rightful place? When the Perfect Man rules the world, he has hold of a huge thing, does he not? - yet it is not enough to snare him in entanglement. He works the handles that control the world, but is not a party to the workings. He sees clearly into what has no falsehood and is unswayed by thoughts of gain. He ferrets out the truth of things and knows how to cling to the source. Therefore he can put Heaven and earth outside himself, forget the ten thousand things, and his spirit has no cause to be wearied. He dismisses benevolence and righteousness, rejects rites and music, for the mind of the Perfect Man knows where to find repose. Men of the world who value the Way all turn to books. But books are nothing more than words. Words have value; what is of value in words is meaning. Meaning has something it is pursuing, but the thing that it is pursuing cannot be put into words and handed down. The world values words and hands down books but, though the world values them, I do not think them worth valuing. What the world takes to be value is not real value. What you can look at and see are forms and colors; what you can listen to and hear are names and sounds. What a pity! - that the men of the world should suppose that form and color, name and sound are sufficient to convey the truth of a thing. It is because in the end they are not sufficient to convey truth that "those who know do not speak, those who speak do not know." But how can the world understand this! From this we can also see that people are much like words. We have higher purposes and reasons for being where we are and doing what we're doing, frequently without our even knowing those purposes. Words are also stand-ins for meaning, like straw dogs are stand-ins for live dogs, and people are stand ins for Dao. The depth of Dao is unfathomable, and depth of intended meaning in the Dao De Jing should not be underestimated. It works with harmony, like a master musician who can follow his whim and forget the chord changes while still revealing the tones of each chord without even needing to know what chord it is.
  7. [TTC Study] Chapter 5 of the Tao Teh Ching

    [A repost from my PPD and another conversation, perhaps best dicussed here] In response to a question by Stosh about the intended meaning of Chapter 5: To look at only that chapter and disregard everything else in the text was not intended. Benevolence/ren had a lot to do with recognizing authority and filial affection (which was perhaps redefined as filial-obligation following Confucianism) towards elders. This was not the invention of Confucius, to care for the old as we care for the young and call this benevolence. Dao does not recognize hierarchical respects and privileges. Dao is the Great Ultimate. When the Sage acts from Dao, there are no elders or authorities. Chuang Tzu, in talking about the sage's interaction with emperors says "bring him Dao," showing the character of the sage, who is fully himself and brings his true nature to the emperor like water flows downstream. My more recent reflection on the later part of the chapter: 1. Heaven and Earth are not ren; 2. They regard the the thousand things as straw dogs. 3. The Sage is not ren; 4. He regards the common people as straw dogs. 5. The space between Heaven and Earth—is it not like a bellow? 6. It is empty and yet not depleted; 7. Move it and more [always] comes out. 8. Much learning means frequent exhaustions. 9. That's not so good as holding on to the mean. (Henricks trans.) It’s important to recognize the poetic ingenuity of the Dao De Jing, which is comparable to the openness of meaning found in the I Ching even. Being familiar with the culture of meaning-associations present in Daoist culture, it's easy enough to fathom the presence of many levels of meaning in any chapter of The Classic of Dao and De. Straw dogs were burned. How do you ensure they burn well in ancient China? With a BELLOWS. Straw dogs were burned in place of living dogs as sacrifices to Heaven and Earth. The sage is like Dao, the space between heaven and earth (partially referring to Dao) is like a bellows, so the sage is also like a bellows. The bellows blows on the straw dogs to send up the offering. The sages’ duties essentially involve being covert wu wei leaders of humanity who lead by example and aid in the harmonic alignment of Heaven, Humanity, and Earth. In the same way that the bellows’ wind blows on the straw offerings, the sages’ cosmic virtue has it’s effortless force which influences the harmony between Heaven, Earth, and Humanity. This is the sages’ offering. Like Native Americans, the sages’ offerings to the Great Ultimate are of their own effort or body, rather than simply offering things which already belong to Heaven and Earth (see Lame Deer “Seeker of Visions). The sage’s virtue is also like a bellows. There is much more being said here that “is not being said.” Another side/direction of meaning: The chapter speaks to the transiency of life. “From ashes to ashes.” We are always aging. Heaven is always moving and sometimes (by hurricanes or destiny, for example) expediating that process. The space between Heaven and Earth is, thus, like a bellows, and all beneath it will always pass “from dust to dust.” 6. It is empty and yet not depleted; 7. Move it and more [always] comes out. 8. Much learning means frequent exhaustions. 9. That's not so good as holding on to the mean. In addition, the barrage of tests that heaven and destiny affords us will never run out. No amount of cleverness will outsmart the Dao. It’s best not to try, but to just go with whatever heaven affords you. This of course includes going with the opportunities presented to you.
  8. My more recent reflection on the later part of the chapter: 1. Heaven and Earth are not ren; 2. They regard the the thousand things as straw dogs. 3. The Sage is not ren; 4. He regards the common people as straw dogs. 5. The space between Heaven and Earth—is it not like a bellow? 6. It is empty and yet not depleted; 7. Move it and more [always] comes out. 8. Much learning means frequent exhaustions. 9. That's not so good as holding on to the mean. (Henricks trans.) It’s important to recognize the poetic ingenuity of the Dao De Jing, which is comparable to the openness of meaning found in the I Ching even. Being familiar with the culture of meaning-associations present in Daoist culture, it's easy enough to fathom the presence of many levels of meaning in any chapter of The Classic of Dao and De. Straw dogs were burned. How do you ensure they burn well in ancient China? With a BELLOWS. Straw dogs were burned in place of living dogs as sacrifices to heaven and earth. The sage is like Dao, the space between heaven and earth (partially referring to Dao) is like a bellows, so the sage is also like a bellows. The bellows blows on the straw dogs to send up the offering. The sages’ duties essentially involve being covert wu wei leaders of humanity who lead by example and aid in the harmonic alignment of Heaven, Humanity, and Earth. In the same way that the bellows’ wind blows on the straw offerings, the sages’ cosmic virtue has it’s effortless force which influences the harmony between Heaven, Earth, and Humanity. This is the sages’ offering. Like Native Americans, the sages’ offerings to the Great Ultimate are of their own effort or body, rather than simply offering things which already belong to Heaven and Earth (see Lame Deer “Seeker of Visions). The sage’s virtue is also like a bellows. There is much more being said here that “is not being said.” Another side/direction of meaning: The chapter speaks to the transiency of life. “From ashes to ashes.” We are always aging. Heaven is always moving and sometimes (by hurricanes or destiny, for example) expediating that process. The space between Heaven and Earth is, thus, like a bellows, and all beneath it will always pass “from dust to dust.” 6. It is empty and yet not depleted; 7. Move it and more [always] comes out. 8. Much learning means frequent exhaustions. 9. That's not so good as holding on to the mean. In addition, the barrage of tests that heaven and destiny affords us will never run out. No amount of cleverness will outsmart the Dao. It’s best not to try, but to just go with whatever heaven affords you. This of course includes going with the opportunities presented to you. [edited to add concluding sentence, and that pasting this to my Personal Practice Discussion on the chapter put me at 3081 posts. ]
  9. To look at only that chapter and disregard everything else in the text was not intended. Benevolence/ren had a lot to do with recognizing authority and filiality towards elders. This was not the invention of Confucius, to care for the old as we care for the young and call this benevolence. Dao does not recognize hierarchical respects and privileges. Dao is the Great Ultimate. When the Sage acts from Dao, there are no elders or authorities. Chuang Tzu, in talking about the sage's interaction with emperors says "bring him Dao," showing the character of the sage, who is fully himself and brings his true nature to the emperor like water flows downstream.
  10. Non-duality in the Dao De Jing

    If anyone has some favourite passages in the Dao De Jing that inspire thoughts on non-duality, please share the passage an explanation of how this refers to non-duality. Starting with Name (Chapter 1, line 1) There can be no name because Dao is both one thing, and everything, so any name would only be one thing or the other. It's either the one thing that brings about everything, or it is everything, and so when we call it "it," we are looking in dualistic terms. The Dao that can be named Is not the eternal Dao
  11. How do you properly drop your Brain into the Lower Dan Tien?

    I'd say if thoughts are the problem, practice awareness and presence while holding the dantien, putting right palm lao-gong point over LDT and then left hand over the right, lining up the lao-gong/center of the palms. People say that in meditation one does not "control their thoughts," but let's them pass. However, sometimes you have to reign in the horse before you can enjoy the quiet ride. If your thoughts are controlling you - control them. Then you can let them be and just enjoy the presence. Meditation is largely about taming the mind. The mind really is the horse on which we ride, so it's best that it isn't too wild. Natural and still a horse, yes, but not a bucking stallion in heat, lol. Start with the breath, breathing in, knowing that you're breathing in; breathing out, knowing that you're breathing out. If you're sitting, find a spot on the floor and focus on that spot so you're "there" in the room and not dreaming about dreaming about dreaming, etc... I'm probably just re-iterating what you already know, but it may help to hear it again once in a while..
  12. Non-duality in the Dao De Jing

    Yes, the whole of chapter two is very much about the unification of opposites, including "non-doing" resulting in/being "doing" such as teaching by not teaching, and obtaining merit by not trying to. The counter balance of forces and actions is a common thread made very apparent in the first 15 chapters. Almost every thought therein is saying that nothing is one thing, nothing is what it appears as all things are constantly in flux and causing alternations. Push down on one side and the other side goes up. As though to say "stop thinking with your rational mind - it can never keep up to the immediate reality, the reality of which is that it is always self-alternating, and if you dwell on one side of it, on one appearance of it, you will be further and further from truly knowing it."
  13. Gem of a video on some fundamentals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzmimfhO3Fk
  14. (before I comment, just want to say it's funny that we're talking a lot about the moon cycles today, around the time of the super moon, yesterday, and 4absolutes post count is at 365 right now...) A very Taoist question, that's for sure. Is the negative negative? What is the balance? Made me think about how the organs in the body compensate for each other by becoming weaker and stronger to keep an overall balance. Is the imbalance necessarily negative in all ways? It's generally said that it's an excess of emotions which cause imbalances in the body, so, like Chi Dragon said, the excessive is followed by deficiency. Anger and sorrow have their place "in the right dose." It's also best that people don't build a nest in them either.
  15. Cultivation of the Mind

    Well, here's another passage which might help explain what Bodhidharma means by xing. "To find a Buddha all you have to do is see your nature. Your nature is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the person who’s free: free of plans, free of cares. If you don’t see your nature and run around all day looking somewhere else, you’ll never find a buddha. The truth is there’s nothing to find. But to reach such an understanding you need a teacher and you need to struggle to make yourself understand. Life and death are important. Don’t suffer them in vain. There’s no advantage in deceiving yourself. Even if you have mountains of jewels and as many servants as there are grains of sand along the Ganges, you see them when your eyes are open. But what about when your eyes are shut? You should realize then that everything you see is like a dream or illusion. If you don’t find a teacher soon, you’ll live this life in vain. It’s true, you have the buddha-nature. But the help of a teacher you’ll never know it. Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher’s help. If, though, by the conjunction of conditions, someone understands what the Buddha meant, that person doesn’t need a teacher. Such a person has a natural awareness superior to anything taught. But unless you’re so blessed, study hard, and by means of instruction you’ll understand." I can only surmise from my prior knowledge, and reading this, that "the truth is there's nothing to find" may be referring to "dependent origination/emptiness/form is emptiness, emptiness is form," and that seeing our original nature is seeing emptiness. However, I'm neither a Buddha nor a student of a Buddha, so, who knows (zen koan not intended...)?
  16. Cultivation of the Mind

    I think there is a connection to the fact xing is translated as "nature" in Taoism as well as in Cha'an Buddhism. When Bodhidharma says to "see your own nature" he is also using the term "xing." In the following you will see the comparisons between mind (xin, heart-mind) and nature (xing). "Buddhas of the past and future only talk about this mind [heart-mind, xin]. The mind is the Buddha, and the Buddha is the mind. Beyond the mind there’s no Buddha and beyond the Buddha there’s no mind. If you think there is a Buddha beyond the mind’, where is he? There’s no Buddha beyond the mind, so why envision one? You can’t know your real mind as long as you deceive yourself. As long as you’re enthralled by a lifeless form, you’re not free. If you don’t believe me, deceiving yourself won’t help. It’s not the Buddha’s fault. People, though, are deluded. They’re unaware that their own mind is the Buddha. Otherwise they wouldn’t look for a Buddha outside the mind. Buddhas don’t save Buddhas. If you use your mind to look for a Buddha, you won’t see the Buddha. As long as you look for a Buddha somewhere else, you’ll never see that your own mind is the Buddha. Don’t use a Buddha to worship a Buddha. And don’t use the mind to invoke a Buddha." --- "People who don’t see their nature and imagine they can practice thoughtlessness all the time are lairs and fools. They fall into endless space. They’re like drunks. They can’t tell good from evil. If you intend to cultivate such a practice, you have to see your nature before you can put an end to rational thought. To attain enlightenment without seeing your nature is impossible."
  17. Why Does Tai Ji Starts with Slow Motion?

    I'll just say that maybe what I was trying to describe is really the simple effect of cleansing that happens at the same time that one allows in good chi (during gathering move) - they open themselves up and the bad flows out while the good pours in, like dirty water falling out of a bowl when you run fresh clean water on it "What I ask why do some move gather more than others?" I guess you mean is why are some gathering moves more effective than other gathering moves. So, yes, Ya Mu has responded to that already.
  18. Why Does Tai Ji Starts with Slow Motion?

    I'll say that the fairly obvious difference to me is that with Taiji, you generally gather energy and then push with it. This is still great for developing intent with your energy and also using the push as a sort of cleansing. However, since it is usually closer to 50% gather, 50% push, or even less on the gathering side, it is less of an energy development technique than qi gong which generally does the cleansing movement first and then gathering, with a ratio more like 20-30% cleansing moves, 70-80% gathering moves. That said, I find many to most qigong gathering moves can be both cleansing or gathering depending on the intent and requirement, and, if you're energy is flowing and stagnant energy cleaned out, you can gather energy just walking and breathing mindfully.
  19. This could also be about as varied in understanding, based on perspective, as Yin vs. Yang. Trying to find absolutes, in Taoism, is always a slippery thing to grasp. My knowledge of this is not as refined as many others here, but some things to consider: It may not be the "amount" of energy that one has, but the frequency or purity of it that makes the difference. Someone may have copious amounts of energy running through their system but if it is not tempered with wisdom (experience, patience, et all), it might as well be a black hole of energy as it can deplete them by causing negative emotions which feed off the subtler energies which connect one to higher energies. So one's capacity to manage their energy might be alluded to someone who has lots of money but no happiness. They may be successful in their endeavors but end up being controlled by them and further at a loss than the person who has very little personal money but is surrounded by a community that supports and provides all that is needed. If one were to forget the community and try to squander everything, they would lose their connection to the community and be "so poor all he has is money." Sorry if that was too vague and tangential, but it does apply to "personal energy." "Is the actual core principle of Qigong and Tai Chi to mix ones personal energy with the Earth and Higher Forces?" This is where, as some stated earlier, it may be a wrong avenue to try and lineate the process. Yes, qigong and (good) taiji do mix one's personal energy with Earthly and Heavenly energy, but there is more than just that, such as cleansing oneself of stagnant energy, conditioning the mind's intent, rooting the self in true nature. It is a health practice, it is a spiritual practice, and it can be either or both of these things while still being "qigong" and "taiji." It's also difficult to say when you are mixing your energy with these other energies, or simply learning from them and conditioning your own energy. Like when you spend time with a wise elder - you don't necessarily take on their wisdom, but you can condition your wisdom by being with them. Wisdom is not owned by anyone, but we can be open to more of it by developing more of it. I'll leave it at that for now.
  20. Hello All.....temple style tai chi practitioner

    looking forward to it fabie - please do!
  21. Futuristic Japanese indoor farm

    http://www.gereports.com/post/91250246340/lettuce-see-the-future-japanese-farmer-builds "The LED lights are a key part of the farm’s magic. They allow Shimamura to control the night-and-day cycle and accelerate growth. “What we need to do is not just setting up more days and nights,” he says. “We want to achieve the best combination of photosynthesis during the day and breathing at night by controlling the lighting and the environment.” Shimamura says that the systems allows him to grow lettuce full of vitamins and minerals two-and-a-half times faster than an outdoor farm. He is also able to cut discarded produce from 50 percent to just 10 percent of the harvest, compared to a conventional farm. As a result, the farms productivity per square foot is up 100-fold, he says. By controlling temperature, humidity and irrigation, the farm can also cut its water usage to just 1 percent of the amount needed by outdoor fields."
  22. HELP: Seeking further textual reference...

    I guess the thing is that for an English speaker, to "tolerate" something means that it bothers you but you don't act on the irritation. The virtue that Confucius describes as "spaciousness" seems to mean more that they are so broad and open that these things are "like water off a ducks back." You don't really say someone has a "tolerant heart," for example, but you could say that they have a "generous heart" which would suggest that they are also merciful et all.
  23. [TTC Study] Chapter 38 of the Tao Teh Ching

    YES! That explains it much better. It's difficult enough just putting these things into English, but then explaining why they should be put that way in English is even more of a challenge. So to re-re-iterate, Dao is the "virtue" that does not require force to have force. When that virtue has been lost, the manifestations of it follow, like the flower dying with the fruit. "Thus it is that the Great man abides by what is solid, and eschews what is flimsy; dwells with the fruit and not with the flower. It is thus that he puts away the one and makes choice of the other" (Legge trans.). It may not be entirely wrong to gain the usual understanding from the chapter, that superficial virtues take the place of others when they are lost, but this, to me, is not the only or even primary message. It's not to say that virtue, benevolence, heartfelt justice, and courtesy are nothing but superficialities. But when Dao is lost, they are weak, thin, and flimsy, like flowers that have been picked from their roots. They will not endure without their connection to the virtue who's force does not require force. You can put the flowers in a vase and keep them looking fresh for a couple of weeks if you keep putting water on them, but if they are not sitting in soil, earth, they will not produce any fruits and will soon wither!
  24. [TTC Study] Chapter 38 of the Tao Teh Ching

    alright, an example from Confucian writing: ć•ä»ă€‚æ›°ïŒšă€Œä»è€…ć…ˆé›Łè€ŒćŸŒçČïŒŒćŻèŹ‚ä»çŸŁă€‚ă€ "Asked (about) benevolence, (Confucius) said, "The benevolent 慈first difficult è€ŒćŸŒbefore obtaining. (Then) can call benevolent!" So one can be said to be of benevolence, perhaps the highest virtue in Confucianism, just by doing hard work before obtaining something? Everybody does that. Could it define the difference between someone of great benevolence and another? The phrase is saying that the benevolent pay attention to the difficult/task at hand before focusing on or rejoicing in what is to be obtained. The matter of "focusing on this and focusing on that" is left out of the words but is an important part of the meaning. These omissions were a way of testing, or otherwise respecting, the readers intelligence by leaving these details for them to figure out on their own. As Confucius said "if a man wants me to teach him, I give him one piece and if he doesn't come back with the other three I will not teach him."
  25. [TTC Study] Chapter 38 of the Tao Teh Ching

    btw, looked up older Mawangdui texts and they have ć„sentence(MWD B ) or 搎after/behind(MWD A), appearing in place of follows for è€ŒćŸŒ in the phrases in question. So "è€Œć„then falling in line like a sentence" or "è€ŒćŽ then behind/follows."