Harmonious Emptiness

Somebody posts 10 different times in response to one post -- ppl. request "consolidate your posts into 1, please." User then consolidates all his posts from the thread every time he posts. This to me indicates significant difficulty distinguishing between "it should be like this" and "it should be like this always, all the time, no matter what." Said person then makes his mission defining polarities based on hearsay, second hand information, and tells people what to reject and accept as truth about said polarities, based on, again, on something someone said, yet obviously has issues differentiating implied and surface level statements. Hopefully, this will be taken into consideration by those trying to learn something about reality on the internet. --

"I quote two of Chang's western students both who confirm what was taught. Where exactly do you think your mighty teacher learned his practice? That's right he learned from another teacher, a second hand source. This whole nonsense about second hand sources is absurd, and only reflects your refusal to admit you are wrong. Rather than admit that is what was taught you can only attempt to discredit it by saying it's hearsay or a second hand source, when both Jim and Kosta learned exactly the same thing." Yes, two students, not two teachers of Mo Pai. Anyways, it makes sense that most wouldn't feel yin chi. When you're low frequency, you don't feel other low frequency around you. Not until you reach high frequency that low frequency becomes "different." On a more basic level, the energy of intellectual knowledge -- it seems "ah, this is knowledge" when one hasn't reached high frequency. When one does reach high frequency, they FEEL that the intellectual bullshitism is low frequency, while spiritual "gnowledge (a la gnostic)" is high frequency. What does this mean to someone in low frequncy intellectual bullshitism mode? jack shit, because they don't know and live and experience the high frequency spiritual "gnowledge". "High is valued according to the low, low measured according to high." So to be taught "you can't feel yin energy unless you have yang chi" makes perfect sense in almost all cases of anyone asking John Chang about it, since the people he's talking to are not asking from the higher frequencies, thus his answer would rightly be "you don't feel it. You have to cultivate yang chi first." simple.

It's a good thing Mo Pai didn't teach what it means to consolidate posts!!! What would we do then?!!

Yes, that was the impression that I had. Either way, am I going to go with the teaching of someone who has 10s of 1000s of hours of successful clinical work which is based on the nature of chi energy, or someone who quotes second-hand information about what another teacher has said, and has never been able to verify the absolutist statements he makes with this teacher, but only with, at best, one or two people who claimed to have studied with him -- again, telling him what they were taught, or just as likely, what they think he should practice and know about. I don't see the point in continuing this. Nobody is claiming that Michael Lomax teaches Mo Pai. No need to interrupt threads to stop this assumption. If you want to say "Mo Pai has a different opinion," fine, but don't interrupt or take over the discussions on Stillness-Movement to share this opinion. It's off the topic that people are trying to discuss and learn about, which is Stillness-Movement.

"Not until yin and yang are brought together can yin energy be directly perceived as our consciousness itself is 100% pure yang energy." Wouldn't that be enough yang energy to feel the yin energy? 100% of our consciousness? Keeping in mind our consciousness in not limited to mind, there is also body consciousness (not as in being conscious of the body, but the consciousness that is in the body itself), energy body consciousness, etc., etc.,?

When they say consolidate your posts, they mean consolidate your new posts, not to put all your posts from the thread in one post. when there are new replies, reply to them in one post. That's it. As for pitting this thread -- it seems like it will pop up again. I'd prefer to have some degree of rectification before putting in with the rest. At least the conversation can be directed here again. There's no insults either, so I don't really see the need to put it in the pit yet. MPG, as for feeling through the yang chi -- that would be feeling. It would be feeling it enough to know that it's there. Whether I hear someone through the air between us or through a telephone, I still hear them. I don't need to say "I heard the telephone tell me what they said" anymore than it needs to be said the yang chi feels it and I feel yang chi. Something is felt, known, etc..

MGP said: "No one ever told me I MUST be grounded with a metal wire." Huge contradiction to what you've said over and over. "This was suggested as an alternative to sitting on the ground for students who couldn't sit out side." Also a huge contradiction to what you've said over and over. "This came directly from Chang himself to his student Jim. You can't feel yin chi, you can only feel it's effects on the yang chi in your body, at least not until both have been brought together." What's the difference? Feeling one way or feeling another way! lol. It's "feeling" it, which you have said is impossible, over and over, "no ifs ands, or buts," and used this narrow distinction as a reason to persistently try to discredit someone elses knowledge to the point of interrupting every conversation related to them. So Mo Pai doesn't teach how to connect to the Earth without touching it. Fine. No biggie. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Maybe you need to be more directly connected to develop Mo Pai Rainbow Body, but that doesn't mean anything for other practices. Thus, you're methods are not an authority on how people can or cannot contact yin chi.

The Zhaobao lineage traces up from Jiang Fa, who was a student of Wang Zongyue, who seems to be about the earliest known Tai Chi practitioner after Zhang Sanfeng. Wang Zhongyue is reputed to have written the Taiji Classics.

On second thought again.. it depends how warmed up I am into the martial movement practices. I'm already there then it stays. True as well. For someone who is new to internalizing those differences .. that's basically who I'm trying to answer for. It might help internalize those differences too, doing them more freely and dynamically with the guidance of the chi movements in the set.

So which reliable source told you personally that you MUST be grounded with a metal wire? Sitting down after standing practice is very grounding. I can see how that would bring yin chi to the person immediately, and I've felt something similar. You say that yin chi can only be felt through yang chi... when you develop yang chi, you feel chi, so when yin chi comes, you feel it happen. You said yourself: "yin chi cannot be felt till yin and yang are brought together, as the human consciousness itself is pure yang energy, and yin energy can only be felt indirectly by the interactions it causes with the yang chi of your consciousness until both yin and yang energy have been brought together." If there's yang chi, there will be yin chi. Just as there is static electricity in the sky, the chi field will find you no matter where you are. The interactions of energy between the earth and sky are constant. It only makes sense that yin and yang chi fields are everywhere.

I think one can see how the energetics (for lack of a better description) of GoT would be influenced from the energetics of master Hu Yaozhen's qigong when watching Hu Yaozhen's daughter, Hu Yuexian, practicing it. Compared to a number of qigongs I've watched and practiced, the movements of both Hu Yaozhen's qi gong, and GoT I & II, are both very unique, but also somewhat similar in their uniqueness to other styles. Hu Yaozhen's qi gong seems to be more formless than GoT, but one can see how the movements of GoT would have been in-spirited by this lineage. Thanks for your response. It's not that I do a loosening up exercise before GoT, what I meant is that I have to stop focusing on exactitudes of stance and movement when switching from Tai Chi to GoT because it impairs the naturalness of movement with the movements/energy. Basically, yes, totally know what you mean....

Master Wu Zhongxian has a very well connected lineage in the Hidden Immortals sect, which has Alchemy transmission from Haichanzi Liu Cao, the originator of the Southern Quan Zhen sect, and teacher of Zhang Boduan. You can also see how Zhang Sanfeng inherited the Neidan teachings in the Yin Xianpai 隱仙派 "Hidden Immortals lineage," and the interweaving of Tai Chi and I Ching prediction teachings that continued through this lineage to Wu Zhongxian. Wu Zhongxian teaches openly, and covers many many facets of Daoist practices and teachings. Of course, as always, it depends on the students self-application as to how much he or she will learn. Here is the Yin Xianpai lineage history: http://www.masterwu.net/MasterWuHiddenImmortalLineage.html note: I am not affiliated with Yin Xianpai

MPG, I don't think you're debating whether Stillness-Movement has any benefit whatsoever to martial application, which is what this thread is about. I've created a new thread "Yin chi 3." This topic will be better placed over there. Unless you're trying to purge yourself of TTB by being banned permanently, in which case, you might as well continue reposting the same unrelated mega posts.

So, I'll start then. It is being claimed that any system which says yin chi can only be cultivated in the body with the use of a wire attached between the earth and the perrenium, and that yin chi can not be felt. This is based on a few of the lines in Kosta Danaos' book "Magus of Java" which describes his learning experiences with John Chang. Now, in an interview with Kosta Danaos himself, he said: http://timemonkradio.com/threads/kostas-danaos-time-monk-radio-network-presents-july-30th-2011.34/ [33 minutes in] Kostas: "Yin chi is not something you put in (with effort), it sort of follows the Yang chi wherever it goes. So, when you generate Yang chi, if you sit down, then automatically you will pull in Yin chi because it wants to be in equal amount wherever the Yang chi is. There are schools that train in the development of Yin chi itself. I don't know anything about that. My training was in both (yang and yin chi training), but one rose as a consequence of the other. You don't deliberately say "I'm going to pull in yin chi now." It just happens. There are ways to do that, but I can't understand why anybody would want to." [...] So then, according to Kosta Danaos, if you cultivate yang chi, all you need to do is "sit down" afterwards, and the yin chi will accumulate to balance the yang chi. This, apparently, was not stated in "Magus of Java." Thus, I have to wonder what else should be left as "we don't know, because the book is not a complete and comprehensive description of the mysteries of mo pai neikung, nor does it go into the intricacies of authentic Taoist neikung practices which are the foundations of the mo pai neikung practices. What was written was written, and what was not written was not written. This does not mean that everything written in this one book is the be all and end all of what it talks about." Some people disagree with this. If so, please provide logical reasons as to why this is not so. Please, no name calling, and if you are going to say "you're wrong," the etiquette of conversation demands that you will follow "you're wrong" by explaining what is "right," and, preferably, "why." If you can not do this, then nobody has any reason to believe that one is wrong and the other not-wrong. I hope we can all learn something here. This is a community. Please, let us act like one. Thank you.

One, two, you know what to do!

I hope I'm not being arbitrary, but isn't 匕 an eating utensil? Also, I noticed that 八 eight also means "all around, all sides" (of the bagua). So to me Zhen seems to suggest "tasting that which is hidden from view yet is everywhere," or, in the right context, could say "tasting that which is hidden and seeing the bagua in completion," or in another context "seeing that which is hidden in the completion of the bagua, thereby cutting through false perception."

So, back to GOT and Stillness-Movement, I have noticed that I need to loosen up when I do GOT. It was mentioned earlier that the alignments for martial arts might be forgotten if one practices GOT. I guess that could happen, but they are two different things, imo. They don't need to be practiced at the same time. You can do GOT and then do martial arts. Forget the martial alignments the same as you would while, say, swimming, and then practice them afterwards. I do find that, while I will incorporate sensibilities from GOT into martial arts practice, it's less GOT than it is martial arts, though it might have some amount of GOT type benefits. Martial arts requires a harder type of focus, like in hard qi gong. GOT is more like a soft qi gong. If you observe most any soft chi gung, you will see that the practitioners do not have the intense focus on total body alignment that you will see in martial arts. So, I'm going back a bit on what I said earlier, that one can easily do GOT with martial arts alignments. Some people, or to some degree, yes probably, but for me, there is a point where the alignments are an unnecessary distraction from the naturally occurring feeling of chi. It's more of a soft chi gung, however, it also differs from many other soft chi gungs in the way one moves in the chi, dances with the chi. For softer martial arts, like Taiji, Aikido, and Baguazhang.. no doubt it would help feel the flow behind the movements.

Seems some people missed this, as well as requests that MPG start a new topic if he wants to discuss understandings of yin chi. http://timemonkradio.com/threads/kostas-danaos-time-monk-radio-network-presents-july-30th-2011.34/

To me, drugs are like spiritual television -- you get to look at some of what there is to know, but watching it on tv for a while and actually living there, going to work there, walking next to the neighbours, feeling the rhythm of the day and hearing the silence as it turns to night... 'mhmmm

Never heard "where is your mind? Show it to me!" explained so well. I sort of though he was like a new age appropriator, but he knows. He's not just repeating the teachings of others.

Reminds me of "Mine is indeed the mind of an ignoramus in its unadulterated simplicity. Ordinary people try to shine; I alone seem to be dark. Ordinary people try to be on the alert; I alone am unobtrusive, calm as the ocean depths, buoyant as if anchored nowhere. Most people have ways and means; I alone am unsophisticated and simple." - Lao Tzu, Ch. 20 (tr. Cleary)

So, yang chi. How, what, when is it there. How do you know it? How does one awaken it? to it? in it?

Stillness-movement. Makes me think of doing any fast physical work, when things move so fast there there isn't any time, and it isn't necessary, to think of everything at the moment it's already in the process of happening. The movement seems to "take orbit" and be "of itself," rather than thought out so long as the center balance is maintained - with the center "balanced" before the movement moves from it, thoughts are movement, movement is thought. How do you explain it more than that - I don't know... This, to me, is the stillness-movement that I know of and practice. The transmission I'm guessing would make this more, well.. guided.. turn up the volume on the balance frequency..... I guess I'll know when I know ....

Yang chi ??

This thread is not about comparisons between Stillness-Movement and Mo Pai, however, an interesting thing is said by Kostas (author of "Magus of Java") in that interview (33 minutes in) which will hopefully end that debate (which obviously must take place in another thread and not be continued in this one) Kostas: "Yin chi is not something you put in (with effort), it sort of follows the Yang chi wherever it goes. So, when you generate Yang chi, if you sit down, then automatically you will pull in Yin chi because it wants to be in equal amount wherever the Yang chi is. There are schools that train in the development of Yin chi itself. I don't know anything about that. My training was in both (yang and yin chi training), but one rose as a consequence of the other. You don't deliberately say "I'm going to pull in yin chi now." It just happens. There are ways to do that, but I can't understand why anybody would want to." So! If you cultivate Yang chi, then according to Kostas, if you just simply "sit down" Yin chi will "automatically" join you as it "wants to be in equal amount wherever Yang chi is." Just sit down, and it automatically joins and settles with the yang chi. Oh man, that was like (soy) milk after peanut butter.. Balance. I feel balance...