Harmonious Emptiness

I would agree with this for the most part in regards to longevity. Nevertheless, Taoists still do things which defy all current science and accepted logic, on an hourly basis, every day, in various healing and other arts.

Reminded me of something I was reading today , which I would say is related to Taoism based on Liu Huayang saying in the Hui Ming Jing that Hui Neng was schooled in the Dao as well (Hui Ming Jing is major text of Wu-Liu Pai sect). Excerpt from The Platform Sutra, Chapter Six, trans. by Charles Luk: "Learned friends, you should look into yourselves and should not make wrong use of your self-minds. The (Avatamsaka) Sutra clearly says that one should surrender oneself to and rely on one's own Buddha. It does not say that one should surrender oneself to and rely on another Buddha. If you do not surrender yourself to your own Buddha, there will be no one on whom to rely. Now that you are self-awakened, each of you should surrender himself to and rely on the Triple Gem of his own mind. Within, the mind should be in harmony with the self-nature and without, other people should be respected. This is surrender to and reliance on one's own self. .... in your own bodies, your self-nature possesses the Trikaya Buddha, which is begotten by your own nature and does not come from without."

moon shine, in the glass whisky window sows a way in earnest this hem

No, it being given and the energy that's there gets brighter and brighter...

I'm wondering about this too. I find when I'm storing up sexual energy this seems to happen much easier and stronger. It can be very distracting. I guess the skin is becoming sensitized or something. Any technique on how to sublimate this energy? I don't know if it's an external or internal source, but seems to be a reaction of the two perhaps. Either way, it feels like a battery being charged up, and sometimes can lead to a feeling of being drained after I guess if it isn't grounded or something. I've tried orbiting it, sending it to the dantien.. Seems like something useful that shouldn't be wasted or let go of.

Just wanted to reorder this translation which is usually rendered: "if he didn't laugh it wouldn't be the Way" This is mistranslation and possible misunderstanding. It would still be the Way. literal wXw: 下士聞道大笑之 low student hears Dao great laughter 不笑不足以為道 not laugh not sufficient cause make/wei path/dao proper translation/understanding, in my estimation: 下士聞道大笑之 The inferior student hears Dao and roars with laughter 不笑不足以為道 If he didn't laugh there would not be sufficient cause to make a path of wisdom and virtue. ne l'oubliez pas!

strange, the first search I did didn't show anything useful. I tried again now and found something pretty good. Thanks for the response.

This could be plausible, the same as some colonies retain older ways of language while the language changes in the places where it originated. Do you have any links to the Guodian Yijing? tnx

This doesn't quite make sense to me, when King Wen wrote about Heng as endurance at least 500 years prior to the Guodian... However, I am interested to hear more about it's other meanings...

You might be interested in the list of "herbs to prevent loss of essence" near the bottom of this page. I would strongly recommend taking the list to a qualified Chinese herbalist who can do pulse diagnosis, explain your situation, and ask if he would recommend any of them for you.

Absolutely. This is akin to a gong-fu of sagehood. Like gong-fu, heng means endurance (in addition to other things). 是 以 聖 人 常 善 救 人 In this way, the wise, of unrelenting virtue, save people Here again, 是 以 doesn't mean literally "in this way" but it doesn't hurt to remind the reader that there is a tie between the former and latter. The poetry of this chapter is not about how to tie, shut, count, speak, etc., but how the sage of unrelenting virtue saves people using these skills. now here is the poetic imagery of this part. Why should we assume that such a profound text would put such seemingly random descriptions in advance of otherwise unrelated revelations? There is a reason for doing these things in the text and this is what I hope to help clarify by translating this way: my translations} 善 行 無 轍 跡 ， Perfect walking leaves no trail of footprints (the person being influenced does not know he is being influenced) 善 言 無 瑕 謫 ﹔ Perfect speech is not tainted with accusations (the sage does not use accusations to bring about the change) 善 數 不 用 籌 策 ﹔ Perfect counting does not use counting devices (the sage knows intuitively what needs to be added and subtracted) 善 閉 無 關 楗 而 不 可 開 ， Perfect closing requires no locks yet the seal cannot be broken (he does not force the person to change, yet the change is profound and enduring) 善 結 無 繩 約 而 不 可 解 Perfect binding requires no rope to secure it, yet cannot be unbound (the sage does not need to force the person to listen for their words will be held precious) 是 以 聖 人 常 善 救 人 ， In this way the wise, of unrelenting virtue, rescue people (minor edits to intro paragraphs)

Well, sorry man, but I think it comes down to an appreciation of poetic circular logic and inference, which exists in all languages, and was of a particular style in the Dao De Jing, which all the "official, correct, definitions" of words cannot grasp by themselves. If this is all you're looking at, then, as they say, "you're gong to miss the forest for staring at the trees" (which by the way is not the literal way that saying goes either, but I added "staring at" to the phrase to help you get it).

Okay well, since the TTC study section is a complete loss right now for finding chapters.. let's take a look at it here. Chapter 27 starts by looking at the word shan in many contexts, all of which refer to doing something perfectly: perfect walking, perfect tying, perfect closing, perfect speech, and perfect counting. The descriptions of these things show how they are done with perfection, not really how they are done with kindness. Then the the shan ren is looked at and tied to the way of the wise man. The reason I translate shan ren as "men who seek perfection" is to tie in all the ideas of the chapter. I understand this is not word for word, but I'm not writing the translation for people to compare dictionary definitions, rather, I'm trying to show what is implied by the words. This is the whole reason for me writing any translations is to show the colour given to different words by their placement in the chapters since much is easily looked over when these inferences are not drawn out for the reader in English. These are things that I could see when looking at the Chinese text that I didn't catch when reading the more or less word for word translations. For me, the reason for translating is to show what other translations do not. There are plenty of definition matching type translations, but they do not help the reader draw the connections that appear in the terse style of the text. These chapters are like good photographs: the different things happening there affect the way the others appear. If this is not shown, it is easily overlooked, especially by English speakers I would say, since most English writing is very linear and direct, so I know as an English speaker the way that these things will usually be read, and what will be missed if it is not made more explicit. I think the trouble you are usually having with my translations is that they don't match the way a Chinese person would translate them. However, the end result of the ideas are the same, just that the words being used are slightly different in a way that means the same thing to English readers, though unfortunately perhaps some non-English raised readers will not see that these things can/do mean the same things in English as the direct meanings of the Chinese. This may be the case, however, why cater to the understanding of native speakers when they could just go ahead and read it in Chinese? So we may have many a disagreement like this, but I really don't mind because it shows me the perspective of the scholarly style.

Google translate is the authority for Classical Chinese now? When I say perfect, I mean perfect of character -- this implies philanthrophy, as does the chapter, but I'm translating from the bigger picture which would be footnoted in general, so thanks for bringing that out here too. So again, it can also mean good man, but my intention is to show what the words mean, rather than just what they say. Of course this would require footnotes or commentary to show how the original words mean this, but word for word translations can be more easily misunderstood than translating it with perspective and foonotes.

I think a large part of the meaning comes from the image of a man as being authoritative and knowing what he's talking about, so it implies this to whatever follows, just as "thus" or "so" but more like "note" since it might not tie the preceding thought to the proceeding. "Now" probably has closest flow in English when appearing at the beginning. There are other words that do this at the end of the sentence, to say that what was said was of substantial import, but FU this starts the sentence that way rather than tying it up at the end that way. I sort of reminds me of how French people often start a sentence as "Me, I like to.../Moi, j'aime..." The first "Me" is redundant but it focuses the discussion to the new subject of discussion. So again, "now" seems to be the best English translation.

Context speaks louder than words in the DDJ. Why is he writing this chapter? To teach people how to seek perfection. So then who is he speaking of? The people who seek to live by perfection. The kindness and perfection of character are both implied. The context of the entire chapter shows that kindness is an obvious necessity for perfection. This is more than just simple kindness. See this link if you need proof that this character speaks more to perfection than simply kindness. Remember, in Daoisim, morals are only needed when true virtue is lost. Kindness is a lesser moral. With perfection, kindness is not a moral action, it's just part of the perfection. edit: search for 善 at that link as I can't link directly to the word reference there.

Tricky you. Well, what I meant by it was related to the mental formation side.

On further contemplation, I think there are at least 2 if not 3 entendres here. 1) the low student laughs, but that is why the path is needed 2) the crazy perfection of the Dao causes people to laugh 3) the sage is also the low student as I would have seen were I looking at the entire chapter, number 3 is perhaps the main point, as shown by the lines "Therefore there is the established saying: "Who understands Tao seems dull of comprehension; Who is advance in Tao seems to slip backwards; Who moves on the even Tao (Path) seems to go up and down." (- Lin Yutang trans.)

I think the line following the ones in discussion pretty much explains what is meant: "此In the case of 者these 三three 以to 為make 文expression is 不not 足sufficient" ie., He's referring to these things when they are just show and not substance.

Hey Taomeow, any idea what the classical characters might be for Ganying??

I've thought it could possibly appear to mean "not laugh: not sufficient 以為conviction in Dao" which would support what you're saying there. You know, as I read the chapter more, lol, I really think you're right! I haven't worked on this chapter and was just looking the line, which appears to follow the ideas in Chapter 27: 是 以 聖 人 常 善 救 人 ， In this way the wise, of unrelenting virtue, rescue people 故 無 棄 人 ﹔ Therefore nobody is abandoned 常 善 救 物 ， Unrelenting virtue saves things 故 無 棄 物 。 Therefore nothing is abandoned 是 謂 襲 明 。 This is called “clothing illumination” 故 善 人 者 ， Therefore men who seek to live by perfection 不 善 人 之 師 ﹔ Are models for those who do not seek to live by perfection 不 善 人 者 ， Those who do not seek perfection 善 人 之 資 。 Are valued as assets by those who seek perfection (my translation)

I have to disagree with you. Responsibility to the needs of the family is no Confucian invention, nor did it ever require Confucianism to exist. Obsequious obeisance to all seniors/superiors.. maybe...

民利百倍。 And the people will profit a hundred fold 絕巧棄利， Do not be attached to cleverness, throw away profit 盜賊亡又。 Then bandits and theives will disappear 絕偽棄慮， Break from falseness, throw away worries 民復季子 And the people will attend to their familial duties (return to youngest brother). The last line was changed to 民復孝慈 People return (to) filial piety and compassion What do you know about old terms for filial piety? 季youngest 子brother (in Guodian) was changed to "畜茲 raising livestock time" in MWD2 and "孝茲 filial piety time" in MWD1, then later "孝慈filial piety and love" (in Wang Bi). 季 Youngest looks similar to 孝filial piety which may be the reason for the later Confucian spin, but filial piety is generally more about obedience to seniors, rather than care for junior siblings. The Daoist version of filial piety, thus, would not based on the obeisance of juniors to seniors, but of seniors taking care of juniors , the capable taking care of the incapable, like the role of water and the Sages.

Thanks for the discussion Qi Long; it's been informative. 而 not sure why you used the link that has "to believe / to think / to consider / to be under the impression" . Thanks for the website/resource! However, you'll see there that the examples for 以為 show it to mean "believe" And you'll that the examples for 足以 show it to mean "sufficient to" two selections from these pages (not meant to implicate anybody, lol): 1) "自以為是 assumes he is right" (believe) 2) "不足以當大事 unworthy of great responsibilities" (in-sufficient)

I'm not a moderator, but I can tell you that it's just the advertising software that hits keywords and adjusts. It's the same all over the net nowdays.