Harmonious Emptiness

I would suggest that even this equality refers all classes acting in conformity to these standards of conformist behaviour and/or thinking. I'd suggest that in place of this "conformist benevolence," Daoists have ci, translated as love, referring to genuine heartfelt appreciation of people, and that this results in things such as righteousness. According to this chapter, Confucius had loyalty in his heart. Of course, we shouldn't be so hard on Confucius even if he was like the person in this chapter. After all, even being the great Confucius, he always maintained a humble students mind. Who, then, am I to pretend to be a know-it-all?

Wei can function in many ways grammatically, but wu wei as a compound character carries a number of "assumptions," shall we say. "Wuwei could be characterized as without action , but could also be "without motive," it could also be "without provocation." right, this more or less illustrates the point I would say..

This might be of interest, from Tribute of Yu, Book of History, Spring and Autumn Period 荊河惟豫州。伊、洛、瀍、澗既入于河，滎波既豬。導菏澤，被孟豬。厥土惟壤，下土墳壚。厥田惟中上，厥賦錯上中。厥貢漆、枲，絺、紵，厥篚纖、纊，錫貢磬錯。浮于洛，達于河 The Jing (mountain) and the He were (the boundaries of) Yu Zhou. The Yi, the Luo, the Chan, and the Jian were conducted to the He. The (marsh of) Rong-bo was confined within its proper limits. The (waters of that of) Ge were led to (the marsh of) Meng-zhu. The soil of this province was mellow; in the lower parts it was (in some places) rich, and (in others) dark and thin. Its fields were the highest of the middle class; and its contribution of revenue was the average of the highest class, with a proportion of the very highest. Its articles of tribute were varnish, hemp, fine cloth of dolichos fibre, and the boehmerea. The baskets were full of chequered silks, and of fine floss silk. Stones for polishing sounding-stones were rendered when required. They floated along the Luo, and so reached the He. Also, Yu the Great, 大禹, did much of the land division, as you will see at the above link. He certainly wouldn't be referred to simply as a general though. I thought of the granary reference before too, just in as much as it creates the image of having great wealth but still being empty of egotism. As for reference to generals, it might be implied. It seems that much of the word play was intended, at least to the point that alternative possible meanings did not stray from other Daoist counsels.

A lot of great suggestions here already. I'll add: try vocalizing what she wants to play. This is very helpful because the voice brain connection is much faster than to the hands, so the voice can keep everything on point and let the hands know better where they're supposed to be. The quality of drum can be a huge factor, as can the calluses Percussion drums are very melodic, another reason vocalizing is so helpful. Listen to the pitches and the melody that they create. Note that the pitch is often in the overtones rather than the immediate sound, so the angle of the strike, the speed, etc. can change this. I tend to depress the skin with the finger of the opposite hand when aiming for certain melodies, a technique borrowed from tablas (which I never learned how to play). Last point is to listen to the character of the drum. Each drum has it's very personal character which needs to be embraced and worked with. So play the drum in different ways to find it's natural inclination to overtones and then play with those tones. When those tones are fully engaged then other more subtle ones will appear and you can work with those too. Improvisationally, this becomes a very meditative "in the moment" practice which requires keeping all your bases, like time and technique, while following the present moment as it is revealed and living with what it brings. Also, close your eyes. The physicality of what's happening can be way too much for the mind to handle. All you need to know is how it sounds and how it feels. Lucky for drummers, they can do this to a much larger extent than with other instrumentalists.

What about 人法地 Man is led by the Earth 地法天 The Earth is led by the Heavens 天法道 The Heavens are led by Dao 道法自然 Dao is led by It's own nature 法 basically means "following the water," used to say "law" etc., but I see what you mean, Dawei, about the sense of "Man is of the tribe of Earth (and thus follows its ways)..."

"Be aware of the arising, the presence, the dissipation, and the cessation." Try this with feelings/emotions. Imo, thoughts come from the heart but don't fully manifest until they get to the head. This is supported by Taoist literature. Be aware of your feelings which are in the process of turning into thoughts and you will eventually catch up. Don't try to control them though. Just "ah some anger is coming about that thing that happened yesterday; I'm angry about that; I'm letting it go; I'm not angry any more." Keeping a watch for these "arisings" is one way to find that "observer." At some point you might just be observing feelings and not even thoughts. These feelings are like Spring starting in February - not really there, but beginning.

All that said, made more of an effort to go with the Wuji zhuang pointers, and look forward to discovering more about that in practice. The Wuji points may even be made more obvious after following what seems to be more conventional pointers (perhaps related the zhongding zhuang), since the conventional points bring awareness to all of the places that are relaxed.

That's fine, I know these threads can be time consuming. I hope you don't mind that I continue though, for clarity's sake. You may be right about the toes, though I can't be entirely certain, as zhongding zhuan seems to follow most of the other "moving" points, and I know that gripping the floor with the toes (well at least the big toe, which pretty much engages the rest) is used in certain points according to the Illustrated Canon of Chen Family Taijiquan by Chen Xin. I know this is also very useful for balance. Well, he says not to push the entire hips forward, creating a lopsided posture where the back is leaning backwards. This disconnects the flow. Everything should be straight, which it still can, perhaps even more so, when tucking in the coccyx. The students eyes are closed, so if they are open a little bit, they've got to be lowered, I would say. Also, the part I was referring to is all after about 5:25 when he talks about zongding zhuan in contrast to Wuji zhuan. This is where things begin to change. In the "sunken posture," which is more moving, "Taiji follows Wuji.. dantien revolves back and forth, fold and move the chest to shape the core of the dantien." Their shoulders appear to be pulled slightly forward as well. By slightly forward, I mean that in a loose stance, the angle of the shoulders from the chest goes slightly back. When you relax the trapezius muscles, they come forward a bit, making them more perpendicular to the chest. Earlier I said bringing the shoulders forward relaxes these muscles, but the reverse order works too, relaxing the muscles to let the shoulder fall forward a bit. I can see how this would be tough on the heart though, while useful for combat purposes. At least for the two that Master Chen talks about in the video, they are both post standing/zhan zhuang. The subtitles show "Wuji post/zhuan and stabilizing center post/zhuang." Obviously they are standing, so they are both zhan as well. Anyways, my purpose is not to be an annoyance, but it was strongly suggested that all the points to do with the coccyx, knees, shoulders, and chest were detrimental to useful standing practice. This doesn't seem to be the case, but merely that they are another side of the practice, both of which can be part of one's practice. If I am wrong, I would greatly appreciate to hear other's perspectives. Either way, if you have a good teacher, just go with the program they have for you and you'll find the benefits they're leading you towards.

Depends on what you're reading/using it for. I've been enjoying "The Buddhist I Ching" recently, commentary written around early mid 16th century Chih-hsu Ou-i, translated by Cleary. It's especially for the internal application, and demonstrates an excellent knowledge of the significance of changes in the lines. For determining courses of action, I like Zhongxian Wu's "Seeking the Spirit of the Book of Changes."

If I understand this video correctly, we are talking about Wuji pillar and stabilizing center pillar, and anything where the hands are not at the sides is not Wuji standing, but rather stabilizing center/Zhongding standing; however, they are both zhan zhuang. See especially at 5:44 when Chen Xiaowang takes the zhongding posture. He certainly appears to follow the points I mentioned earlier.

Do I hear a "wu wei in the Huangdi Sijing" thread coming up?

So that frozen position, for up to an hour, would include all the points related to movement right? So you're saying this is also done as well?

Thanks for the response. I would suggest, imho, that perhaps Wuji standing, while having it's energetic benefits, can be balanced with the more yang training in order to build a strong external structure as well. Yes, these points are made more for combat and motion, but would it not help to accustom the muscles with the structure used in motion, while it's easy to note them - in stillness. This way they might be quickly engaged in appropriate situations.

Well, thank you for your consideration Taomeow. I am interested to read your comments on these pointers. I mean what's the use of shamelessly displaying my ignorance if not to find out what's "right." I should note too, though, that when I apply these pointers, it's all done rather slightly. I feel what I'm doing but someone looking at me would only see a very straight posture. Interesting that you say straight up and down is best, because the adjustment made is mostly changing the "less aware" posture to the "aware" posture, if that makes sense. The pelvis is not really pushed forward, but to move from the posture that occurs without zhan zhuang, the muscles move it these directions, though not to the other extreme (for lack of a better word). (edit: and a sincere disclaimer that none of this is meant to be confrontational, again. So far this disclaimer is still good, though I see it being used "snarkly" in the not too distant future and becoming worthless..)

Not to equate a flash of grand perception with knowledge passed on for thousands of years, but there are some interesting quotes from Western poets that reveal a deeper experience, perhaps the sort shared by Eastern mystics. (please isolate or highlight the part(s) of the examples you have, thanks.) Here's one: - from Coleridge's "The Aeolian Harp": O ! the one Life within us and abroad, Which meets all motion and becomes its soul, A light in sound, a sound-like power in light, Rhythm in all thought, and joyance every where-- Methinks, it should have been impossible Not to love all things in a world so fill'd ; Where the breeze warbles, and the mute still air Is Music slumbering on her instrument.

rights and wrongs? depends in what. The I Ching describes the functions of reality so as to help decide right course of action. The right course of action being that you do not stray from your true nature which will guide you to peace, tranquility, love, few desires, modesty, and an intuitive guide beyond lists of do's and don'ts. worship or meditate? Daoists do recognize the authority of Heaven. "Man is led by Earth, Earth is led by Heaven, Heaven is led by Dao, Dao is led by it's perfect nature." The word "worship" has many connotations in English which perhaps may or or may not apply as it confines, and even anthropomorphizes, something which is beyond the grasp of ideation. how did the world come to be? Yin and Yang came together and had a everything. "The One gave birth to the Two, the Two gave birth to the Three, and the Three gave birth to the myriad things." There are variations on what this means, but mostly, Oneness is before the birth of Yin and Yang which were the unified character of One. The three, I'm not sure. Perhaps the combination of form and formlessness being two things, yet a third as well. what happens when you die? Depends. Supposedly, if you want to, you can practice in life and be accepted into sort of the offices of Heaven. Taking the imperial exams was a huge deal in China. In a way, life is the imperial exam, (but I don't know that anyone's actually said that before). Though, while this is one answer, it's not the only one. There are many Daoist syncretists too though. By the way, I'm just putting this all in my own words. These are not "offical positions," so you might want to just quote me as "a guy who talks a lot that I met @thetaobums.com."

(ditto, it is difficult to not sound confrontational when directly disagreeing with someone's point, without qualifiers, on the internet. Phew!) I think we can agree that one shouldn't lock the knees at least. I agree that the lower stances are more for people with martial arts training who have a comfort level in those stances. Either way, flexing (slight bend) and flexing (tensing the muscles via gripping the floor) the knees is pretty minimum standard, imho.

Another point I should add is that when you bend your knees, most of the work of changing the curvature in your lower back is taken care of. Pushing the buttocks in an upwards helps balance and stability. A good place to covertly test this is standing on a rocky subway.

Excellent translation TT ^^. I think I had seen somewhere before that this was the case, that it was used to end a sentence. That or it just seemed to be the case, sort of like "and the king is one (lets be in peace on this statement)." But, as mentioned, I can't help seeing the presentation of characters with almost NLP types of effect/suggested meanings that are very much intended to be understood by those who are open to them. At least, in order to translate all of the meanings into English it seems necessary to look at them in this way. I hope you could tell that I was half joking in my rather pun-like response. It was almost "pun-ishing" wasn't it. Oh ho! ha ha.

Here's what's been working for me (based on Li Zi Ming's points for circle walking). grip the ground with your toes flex the knees (knees should not be further forward than the toes) bring the buttocks in and up waist is relaxed chest is brought in shoulders relax and a bit forward chin down pointing up the crown of the head Here is what I've found to get a balance from these points: - gripping the ground with the toes flexes the knees as much as you need to flex them you don't want to over-flex the knees as this is unnecessary tension having them somewhat flexed protects them from bearing all the weight as the muscles are activated to help with this. - pointing the buttocks in and up brings focus to the dantien. - keeping the waist relaxed helps the chi to flow around the dantien and keeps the posture and other tensions balanced - bringing the shoulders forward stretches the back just above shoulder blades, opening up the pathways there. This also automatically sinks the chest along with the buttocks position. - pointing up the crown automatically sinks the chin and lowers the eyes so that the focus is more easily internalized I'll use different hand/arm positions depending on what I feel is needed most. but the lao gung points (center of palms) always point towards the lower or middle dantien. Just putting your right palm directly on your lower abdomen/dantien and the left palm over your right hand (thumb touching about the wrist) is an option too. If you do "hugging the tree," it helps to imagine literally giving some love to a tree with a nice big hug when you take position. This energy focus helps to keep the posture, and also helps with the energy being focused to you from the position/direction of the lao gung points, all of which is better for a more spiritual practice. edit: plus trees deserve some love. I have yet to learn "tree gong," but perhaps it's in my future.

I think there is sort of a circular meaning here with "going far means returning." It's a very deep phrase on so many levels. Also, "great 大" seems to refer to spatial greatness as well, especially with the references to "distance 遠." 筮曰遠 divination by yarrow stalk is ever-reaching 遠曰反 ever-reaching (also) means returning (to that which is most near) Then there was "国中又四大 This realm has four Greats, 而王居一安 And the King is one;" I don't think "central 中" would be used only to say "this." It seems to continue talking about "returning" to the center. 国中又四大 At the center of the nation are also the Four Greats 而王居一安 Where the king dwells居 in oneness一 and tranquility安 This is always translated "and the king is one." Why??? Why leave out 安 tranquility??? When 居 dwelling is used in the Dao De Jing it's pretty much always referring to dwelling in a state of being. So when we have "dwelling oneness tranquility" why, for the love of mercy, does everyone just omit such a doctrinally important word from the sentence??? I need to go center myself in the Four Greats again and find my inner sovereign. This is driving me to no end..

I would be very interested to hear what kinds of "strange occurrences" teachers have encountered, and how they treated them. For example, a student not knowing how do deal with energy or feelings experienced during the class.

A lot of the dictionaries will follow them too, so it's difficult to know which is which. I figure the meaning of individual radicals etc. were still more "fresh" so I usually go from there and look for poetic images. My purpose in translating the text is to see what hasn't been translated, so the first order of business is basically avoiding assumptions.

No, I'm just saying there might be evidence that they were "on to something" beyond the words. Or maybe just "on something." Who knows.

And the Dao De Jing explains how it's done and how to do it. great point I like the idea of Earth governing - the four seasons etc. - What a majestic ruler indeed!