Harmonious Emptiness

Just wanted to say: It's not that the path can't be spoken of, but that "the way of wisdom that can be a (set) path will not always be the path." This speaks about the spontaneity from the master's level where there is no thought of patterns and paths anymore but all comes from the watery responsiveness within the master. The way can be spoken of, but there is no one way that is the way, of the way of The Way.

I've found the following a great guide to work with: http://ia600506.us.archive.org/16/items/progressiveexerc00bull/progressiveexerc00bull.pdf

I don't have experience at the level you're talking about, but you might want to explain to him the power of thoughtforms/belief/words/memes which can act the same as entities yet are not. The Kehemtics/Egyptians embodied this by a god, I forget which one though I believe he was represented by a gorilla, to show how words have power to control one's perception of reality. Otherwise, I would be inclined to refer him to a reputable, traditionally trained, shaman who does sweat lodge and sacred pipe ceremonies This might at least lead to finding out what was the cause of his issue. Then a good therapist will have a good base to start with.

Something that makes being young difficult is the drastic changes that go on. Great highs lead to painful mediums and great lows lead to pleasurable mediums which then become great highs resulting in painful mediums again. This is why its important to be able to live in the center, in the middle. People struggling with sadness often grasp for joy or pleasure but miss out on medium, thinking there can only be high or low. This is why Eastern (and western philosophers in a different way) talked about emotional equilibrium. Water is clear when it's not stirred up. People are the same. When you're just doing the laundry (for example), your not high or low, you're just clear. This clarity is not a bad thing. It's where we return to when we're not stirred up. Its okay to get stirred up, but you should enjoy clarity as much as any other state without getting stirred up by pleasure, anger, sorrow, or joy. At times, pleasure, anger, sorrow, and joy, are good and necessary, but its important to be able to choose clarity. Prevailing philosophies push people to be joyful and experience pleasure as though life is wasted when they are not present. This is false. One has to be able to revert to clarity. Remember these 4 emotions and learn to be without them so that you can find equilibrium. There is clarity in the absence of these emotions. You need to know this - that it is not a wanting void. The wanting void is seeking pleasure or joy, or maybe even sorrow or anger. Learn to be at peace without any of these. When they stir in harmonious degrees, that's all good; it's not a problem. But learn to appreciate the state without pleasure, anger, sorrow, or joy. This is called equilibrium. As I said before, this is not something you do because the high and mighty grandson of Confucius said you need to order your life according to his prescription for it (nor saying he did, though you can read his manifesto: Doctrine of the Mean where this teaching can be found), but if you try this and see it works, then great, benefit from it for your own sake. Yes, life is challenging, this is why it's not selfish to patch your boat first, before you go out and try to save other people.

WillingToListen, Contrary to what many spiritual seekers will tell you, the path can just as easily be a bondage, especially for those who hear a few things and try to organize their life by it just because it came from some people that seemed like they knew what they were talking about. If there is something that you can learn and gain from the masters of Tao and Zen, however, its to be able to be content and happy with the mundane, smile for no reason, to be calm and clear. This doesn't mean you need to be able to meditate for hours or take the problems of the world on your shoulders, or to be a master of the path. You can try to master everything you hear about paths, but as they say "to see once is better than to hear a hundred times." Forget about following everything you've heard about the path and just find contentment in YOUR life. This is not about mastering anything, even yourself, it's just having a rapport with your ability to determine how you feel about things. There are techniques that help you reach this, including chi gong and meditation, but you can also just learn to let things ride and be content regardless of circumstances. People will then tell you "you need to do this and that this much at this time" but its not about following routines and plans to achieve level 4-A alpha meta that master Ulitmate Being Ever was able to accomplish - its about life, - your life*. Don't be confused and depart from that fundamental. I wish you the best in your current difficulties. You could check out your local unemployment center where an agent can find you a free program that will develop career skills and/or find temporary employment. The inertia of unemployment can be tough to overcome, so start there and get on the wagon. Hè

Manno, I think you need to look at the deeper reasons for your racism, perhaps some rejection by mainlanders or something of the like. The urban rural schism you describe exists in every country and every race. The Japanese are as they are because they have grown up in the culture they grew up in. When a Japanese person grows up in a different culture they will do as is done in that country with some influence by their parents who grew up with their influences as well. Again, you really need to take a closer look at your reasons for prejudice and do something about that because they are quite apparently short cutting your logic on these judgements. I'm not discussing this anymore with you until you do this.

Well, at least here you're acknowledging that the cultural environment, and not race, is the guiding factor; however, your criticism of the prevailing behaviour that you experienced still needs to be recognized for its environmental cause rather than pointing to the external illusions (the racial majority) that your immediate senses perceive in this environment. You might also want to restate that you are racially Chinese when stating these things for what it's worth as it might be the hairs breadth that keeps you from getting banned.

The opinion being expressed here, thought sincere on the part of those writing them, are lacking in perspective. Simply erase race from the picture and you will see that every country suffers power struggles. This has nothing to do with skin colour, and every culture, that different races are generally raised by, struggles with the desires of the powerful against the resources of the rest. When you point at races you miss the actual cause of these problems and will continue to pit the dis-enfranchised against the dis-enfranchised based on the illusions of external appearances. These external appearances seem determinate until you have the fortune of living in a place where all races are raised with the same culture. In these environments, it becomes quite obvious that all humans have the same weaknesses and strengths within them which can be manipulated by external circumstances. When we focus on the results rather than the causes we'll just continue to suffer these causes perpetually with no efforts made to actually resolve them. It's difficult to look at our own problems, so much so that people can only bear to fight those of others for the time being. When humanity learns the courage to look at its own problems, only then will our collective evolution begin. It burns, it rages, and it squirms, but it must be done for humanity to avoid regressing to the animal kingdom. When we look deeper we'll see the hidden ocean of reality underneath.. to face this ocean is to observe the dawning of humanity, and reunite with our long lost brothers and sisters of the same Heaven and Earth.

I think the fact of the matter is that Westerners are far more "foreign" in other countries than other people are in Western countries, meaning that people outside of Western countries are not used to Westerners being in their country like (most) Westerners are used to people from every corner of the globe. The process of familiarity is still developing there. i think it's safe to say you will experience about the same hesitation as if you were studying African drumming in Ghana. It's possible to befriend people who will know your sincerity, but you can't just find these people in classified adds. There is a world there that is kept hidden to protect its purity from being debased by those who are not sincere participants. local or foreign. Like others have said in similar topics, and I illustrated in the "kumare" thread, some people operate like taxis for tourists, taking them all around town and acting like its on the way to where they want to go (especially if said tourist doesn't know where he/she's going). Though requiring wise discernment, it's possible to find sincere fellow artists/practitioners, who share your enthusiasm, anywhere you go.. while it's rarely if ever easy.

Welcome Wu Ming Jen! I look forward to reading your responses!

Not that I'm qualified to determine either way, but it would be difficult to determine this just by hearing that there's a "tingling sensation." Nonetheless, if you are meditating without force and these sensations arise after some time, I would say they are good, so long as they continue while you continue to allow them, rather than force them. If so, yes, you're on your way to a rewarding practice ..

Just had the following thought: Some gurus are like taxi cabs for tourists. If you don't know where your going, they'll take you all over the place and tell you it gets to where you want to go. Scriptures (especially) and commentaries are road maps to help us find our way around until we eventually get to know the roads for ourselves. (ed. to add) Of course others are like tour guides who can take you to the best places you never knew existed. Deep sea diving may require an instructor for any success.

Chenping, (Takakki I presume..) these claims are way off topic so I won't respond further to them, other than to say, I doubt you are an elite Chinese scholar, so I'm not sure how you would know one way or the other. Further, the Dao De Jing is said to have mostly likely been a compilation of sayings formerly passed down through oral tradition. Oral traditions are generally not tied to scholarly elites, especially those which advise against empty scholasticism in the first chapter when written down.... I suggest that you start a new thread if you wish to discuss these lines of debate.

I don't think these things would shock the sage, since the sage sees power lust for what it is in the same way he sees a lion for what it is. These are facts of life. If not for these facts of life, the path would not exist. In regards to this, and also the statement in the DDJ that "the sage is not ren," we should consider Chapter 38: "A man of the highest virtue does not keep to virtue and that is why he has virtue. A man of the lowest virtue never strays from virtue and that is why he is without virtue. The former never acts yet leaves nothing undone. The latter acts but there are things left undone. A man of the highest benevolence acts, but from no ulterior motive. A man of the highest rectitude acts, but from ulterior motive. A man most conversant in the rites acts, but when no one responds rolls up his sleeves and resorts to persuasion by force. Hence when the way was lost there was virtue; When virtue was lost there was benevolence; When benevolence was lost there was rectitude; When rectitude was lost there were the rites. The rites are the wearing thin of loyalty and good faith And the beginning of disorder; Foreknowledge is the flowery embellishment of the way And the beginning of folly. Hence the man of large mind abides in the thick not in the thin, in the fruit not in the flower. Therefore he discards the one and takes the other." In "A man of the highest virtue does not keep to virtue and that is why he has virtue. A man of the lowest virtue never strays from virtue and that is why he is without virtue" I think he is talking about "德virtue/De" here in the same way he was talking about "humanity/ren" in Chapter 5, in that he was referring to the way these virtues are practiced with partiality, as in Confucian ren. The rest of the chapter seems to reflect this as well.

Just want to say, if you've dedicated yourself to living in a monastery where all your living expenses are provided by those you benefit by doing so, then sure it makes sense to write and publish and not keep profits. However, most people writing nowadays are not living in monasteries with all of their expenses paid. Does this mean only people in monasteries should write books? Should nobody try to market their books to (as they hopefully see it at least) spread the information in them for the benefit of those who can gain from this information? If we all just want to denigrate and insult anyone who writes something meaningful and charges a small entrance fee (the small cost of a book) then who is going to write anything of this sort? The cost of an online book now is even less expensive. We want to enjoy the company of these writers while reading their books, and turn aghast at the thought of even paying for their next falafel. How does this make us worthy to judge them again now?

Very interesting from the article. You know, green tea and all its variants have flourine/flouride in them as well. I'm guessing there's some amount that is not so bad, though I hate that they add it to the same drinking water they just added it to before it was put back in the system. PFL, how did you measure you're doses of it? How did you find out about it? What was your experience like?

I'd say motivation is connected to Will which Daoism says quite a bit about. From the elemental perspective: Earth and spleen are connected to planning. When you're calm and chill, you plan things. Also wood and liver are connected to thinking. The brain is both wood and water element. Water and kidneys are connected to courage, adaptability, and will. Without this element, the thinking of the earth and wood elements are not acted upon, they will not grow and flower. This adapatability of water and it's ability to "just do it" without thinking about it, should be noted. This slogan "just do it" used by the Nike brand, was likely taken from the Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi. This book was well read by business executive types in the 80's and 90's, along with an adaptation of The Sun Tzu: "Art of War for business management." Musashi divided the book in to five chapters titled by the five elements (according to Japanese tradition). In the "Water" chapter, Musashi talked about "Munen Muso: your natural abilities to act free from any conscious thought to act" and also "Utsu: the conscious dealing of a strike" versu "Ataru: to strike without thinking of doing it, that is just doing it" (trans./commentary by Nihon services corporation, 1982, ). The "Ataru" strike is usually to respond immediately, and is done so as to be able to "Utsu" afterwards. Will and motivation are like this as well. Too much thinking and there will be no action. When the water element is being blocked by earth and stolen by wood: Ataru!!

Well it literally means "adult male" so I don't think that particular analysis was out of place. it is a versatile character, but yes, I am aware of that definition as well. Its a matter of searching to find its use in many different contexts which can be done online. I think if we wish to continue this it would be best looked at in the TTB "Chinese Language" forum.

Well, exactly. 夫 can mean a number of things, but is constructed by a picture of a person 大 (with outstretched arms, usually meaning great) and 一one/alone. So it's still sort of there deeper in the words of the phrase, while not "explicitly" stated. It's difficult to make a direct translation of what turns out like: "夫not 何which hence故 ." Is this what you meant?

This idea is also reflected in Chapter Eight with the lines: (my translations) 10 正善治, zhèng shàn zhì, It is of the utmost importance that kindness is the guiding power 11 事善能, shì shàn néng, In business, kindness brings success 12 動善時。 dòng shàn shí。 In movement, kindness brings good timing 13 夫唯不爭, fú wéi bù zhēng, So it is understood thereby, that not being selfish 14 故無尤。 gù wú yóu。 There will be no mistakes (again, see my PPD for the rest of the translation)

I think a chapter that reflects this idea even closer is Chapter Five: 05 天地之間, tiān dì zhī jiān, The space between heaven and earth 06 其猶橐籥乎 qí yóu tuó yuè hū Is like [the lungs, or] a bag-pipe 07 虛而不屈, xū ér bù qū, Empty without being finished 08 動而愈出。 dòng ér yù chū Rather than being exhausted by movement, the movement only generates more and more of what it produces (my translation. The rest can be read in my PPD of the chapter)

Yeah true. It's more just a matter of rhythm in the themes that brings "one" into the picture. It's not stated explicitly as "one in ten." 夫何故 There is one who is unlike these others (3+3+3 =/= 10)

Found some more proof for this so I put together a synopsis of what I had written here (especially in post #21) and added to it. Aside from the translation by Stephen Mitchell, who likely got the same sense that I did based on Chapters leading up to it since he doesn't read classical or modern Mandarin, I am (a bit) proud to provide this information to the Dao De Jing reading community, possibly for the first time in quite a long time; and at a time when Daoism, as always, has much potential to lead people back to wisdom. Hopefully any damage caused, between Daoism and other faith communities, based on a misunderstanding or mis-quoting of this chapter, can now be repaired. So, from Chapter 5: 03 聖人不仁, "sage, not, ren/humane" shèng rén bù rén, The wise do not show their favour 04 以百姓為芻狗。 yǐ bái xìng wéi chú gǒu。 "the 100 clan names and family names are treated like straw dogs” the sage is not concerned with a person's titles, much as Heaven is not concerned itself with a status of humans being "above" the rest of living things. (my translations) “The 100百姓clans” was a term used to mean “all people” during the time the DDJ was written. In this case though, it could just as easily be translated as “the hundred names are treated as straw dogs” since the 仁ren/humanity, which the sage does not have, is that based on family ties and hierarchies: from: http://odip.webs.com/Ren.pdf "In the Confucian tradition, 仁ren as interpersonal love and care, on the one hand, is love for all humans. On the other hand, it is love with distinction or graded love (ai-you-cha-deng 愛有差等) in view of relations of kinship with oneself, in contrast to universal love/care for each (jian-ai 兼愛) as advocated by Mohism." Ren, 仁, is a picture of a man with two others, signifying "how people relate to one another." Ideally, people relate to one another with humanity, however people also related to one another based on family ties, a social custom existing before Confucianism, which Confucius found to be a virtue and upheld. Therefore the way people related to one another, 仁ren, also meant the degree to which they distinguished the love they gave to their families from the love they gave to anyone else, in that it should always favour the family members at the exclusion of anyone else, first. For many the virtue of how people related to one another was in their self sacrifice to the family hierarchy. The benevolence and respect showed to family. The respect shown outside of the family maintained a similar perspective based on comparative levels of authority. This was also 仁ren before Confucius time. The Dao De Jing was also most likely written or compiled at some point during Confucius' lifetime, 551–479 BC, as it was already responding to the over-literal style of seeking Dao which Confucius' movement was often accused of (See Chapter One). Mo Tzu (470 BC–c.391 BC) and Mohism later taught against this cultural norm, distinguishing his school from Confucianism especially by prescribing "united love 兼愛" in place of this other 仁ren which was upheld by Confucians. as I was saying before (mostly in other posts here): 仁 can be seen as more than just kindness/humanity, as it shows one man relating to other people, referring to "the relationship between man and his fellow men" (post #4). Concerning the time of Lao Tzu, it would have been considered very rude not to show appropriate respect based on the power of particular clans and families? So, "the sage does not worry about social interaction, and treats family names as straw dogs / ignores the expected courtesies to powerful clans and families." "the sage is not concerned with a person's titles, much as Heaven is not concerned with status of humans being "above" the rest of living things. It was a colloquial phrase to say “100 families” to mean “all people” which results in the way this is usually perceived. As Chuang Tzu says "though expected to bear gifts when meeting someone of great authority, the best gift you can bring them is Dao" ie., just being a real person, and not paying obsequious obeisance as customarily done by officials and peasants. "Heaven is not "socially appropriate", and so treats all creatures the same (as straw dogs). The Sage is not concerned with a person’s titles, much as Heaven is not concerned with status of humans being "above" the rest of living things." 仁 means kindness, but signifies how man relates to other people. To relate to them according to "social conventions" would be considered virtuous and friendly by most, or insincere and beguiling by others. Generally, it is considered kind and perhaps self-sacrificing as the way to ensure social harmony. So Heaven and Earth do not consider socially appropriate behavior, "Heaven, Earth, not, 仁, Acts on all things as straw dogs" "Wise, man, not, 仁, Acts on all people as straw dogs " Chuang Tzu, who quite obviously gained much inspiration from the Dao De Jing or at least it's existing philosphies, wrote a lot about "being real" instead of just following conventions as expected by Confucianists. Also, in DDJ Chapter 15 10 敦兮其若樸; 沌呵亓若樸 dūn xī qí ruò pǔ; Candid and sincere! plain as wood! (Wang Bi manuscript) Unpredictable [chaotic like water沌], ha ha! Plain as wood! (Ma Wang Dui manuscript) [敦= esteem; honest, candid, sincere; 樸= wood + sound indicator = simple, honest; plain; rough] (my translation) Some people say that the DDJ was written for emperors and this is why there is advice to make people think less, or even that “Sage/Wise man” was only referring to someone with immense political power, and that this is why something appears like "treat all people like straw dogs." However, Lao Tze suggests that the ruler should also live beyond petty concerns and mere academic knowledge. The sage wants the same thing for the people that he wants for the emperor: Wisdom and Virtue. [edited March 21 to add "my translations" to first quote/translation]

I can parallel park in a space no more than a 18'' wider than the car without corrections or bumper damage (most of time).

"stop"