Harmonious Emptiness

Religion is fine until it becomes a false idol and people hold it in higher esteem that it's teachings and practice, sometimes causing them to become sociopathic hypocrites when they draw a circle around themselves and say "everyone outside of this line needs to be sacrificed for our ideals." This does not always happen, but when it does... that is what happened... Edited to add that - pretty much any idea can do the same when held in the same esteem as some hold religion(s).

Thanks for that Steve. Took a bit of time to process, but I can see how those back turns in 8 Section Brocade would be really helpful for some of those postures. I posted a thread in my Personal Practice discussion, btw, which I think relates well to this thread. I didn't want to post it twice, nor derail this thread to my own practices, so here's a link to it: Song-Teacups edit: one thing there, btw, which I could add here, is that it might be better to describe "song" as "un-tensed" sinced it's not really "loose," but rather just "un-tensed" yeah? Always ready and conscious, but just not "tensed."

sometimes if I feel a block there I do sort of a shoulder thrust and it works, just cocking them back/up and thrusting them forward/down a few times. This might be a bad idea for someone doing more forceful breathing or kundalini exercises, but seems to open clear the area pretty efficiently. I guess it probably works similar to "shaking" practice which I usually do for a bit as a warm up, and is generally recommended for kundalini balance. Of course, keep the tongue positioned to connect the front and back while doing this.

could never figure out the didgeridoo, but I do play percussion.(about 10 years) I highly recommend anyone join an African drum ensemble class. It's something else being that tightly woven together with a group of people all playing different parts on one rhythm. I really hope it catches on in elementary schools and high school clubs. It's so much better for social development that competitive sports, imo.

For some reason I was getting the following message when I opened thetaobums.com in my browser: SQL Error An error occured with the SQL server: This is not a problem with IP.Board but rather with your SQL server. Please contact your host and copy the message shown above. I looked up what this could mean and seems an SQL server is only needed by businesses? Not sure why I would need one to open the forum index.

I'm forgetting which hexagram it was now, but in Liu I MIng's commentary on the I Ching, he said something you would have though came from Freud: (paraphrased) "when someone is internally chaotic, they try to create order externally. When someone is internally peaceful (centered, aligned) they can move easily through the chaos without loosing their internal alignment." I'm thinking maybe the suppression of sexual urge without proper practice to transform led to a lot of internal chaos that was expressed by trying to force order on others. This was often done by shaming the person to accept their inferiority and do what they're told, while there were few role models of tranquility speaking up over this chaotic clamor. The belief that the natural self was wrong, rather than peaceful, created somewhat of a culture searching for the ground above their heads rather than under their feet, and wisdom from logic rather than from a state of knowing. Not believing that a person could naturally gravitate to virtue, they ran from themselves and then had to fall on an external organization of "rights and wrongs." The East I think had a major advantage in not having these barriers to self-knowledge. That said, the West did create a number of useful things in their search for order. Luckily, we all finally now have access to the innovations of both cultures and have started to try and figure out how to use them appropriately together.

Yes, emulate is a problematic word to use. I was just going quickly by memory for that one. Now that I'm looking at the original Chinese, I remeber translating/rendering it closer to: 觀天之道，執天之行，盡矣 Observe the Dao of Heaven. Keep Heaven within, everywhere you go, until the very end.

yeah, I managed learned to draw a little bit recently. I have so much on my plate between 3 instruments+, writing, chi gong+, reading/studying, organizing a band (no recordings yet).. I imagine stuff and wish I could paint it.. must be nice. Yes I was referring to you too. Dorian too.. wow! vivid airbrush.

Seems strange to me that so few translations utilize the original imagery: 03 萬物並作,(Wang Bi) 萬物旁作(Ma Wang Dui) Myriad creatures, 並at the same time, arising Myriad creatures, 旁side by side, mutually arising 04 吾以觀復。 吾以觀亓復也 They thereby observe the return (也as well) 05 天物:芸芸 天物雲﹦ Heavens creatures, like many clouds (scattered through the sky) 06 各復歸其根。 各復 各Each one 復returns back to their 根foundations Each one returns I think this also reflects the first line of the Yin Fu Ching as well. "Emulate the way of Heaven. That is all." edit: to add my exact translation of these lines from the Yin Fu Ching: 觀天之道，執天之行，盡矣 Observe the Dao of Heaven. Keep Heaven within, everywhere you go, until the very end. (my translations.. a bit more here)

Come on now, I'm a bit more interested in your thoughts on this post first. Did it say anything to you? Did it actually turn around in your mind at all?

Exactly what i wanted to say. It's like countries where women are forced to cover up so that men are not driven to lust, as if it's the womans fault that the men have not learned how to control the risings of lust. But it's no wonder that they can't control their lust when they never see women.. then they finally do and BOINGO! they don't know what's going on with themselves. This is one reason why psychedelics can help people.. it challenges them and makes them face what's going on in technicolor. Not that everybody needs to or should try them, but there is much potential when used skillfully and with a qualified guide. One problem though, is that without real guidance, people often end up with sort of the beginning of a spiritual awakening but their ego immediately siezes it for its own purpose and they are carried away by delusions of grandeur; rather than letting the experience be it's own thing and not merely another petty aggrandization of the self-concept. Thus goes the phrase about "the danger of a little knowledge." This is the same with religion. It can become something that people attach to themselves as part of the self-concept. Then this aggrandized concept can't handle being one with everything as that threatens its very existence as "greatness" (after all, greatness is only in comparison to all/average) and it feels like it's dying. This is why real teachers are needed, and even paying respects to and thanking higher powers, recognizing how much we don't know and have to learn. If we can't let go of that baggage it's going to be especially difficult if we find ourselves suddenly suspended up in the clear blue sky.

Wow, good stuff here! Scotty, good sound, authentic feel! Joe Blast, that's a beaut'! Man, I wish I had painting and drawing skillz...

Seems the message was recieved.. *sweep sweep** Yeah, could probably do with less half-assed wise-cracks by a certain half-wise ass-crack on every real topic (unlike this one). edit: Yes, I said it.

I've found these two meditations to be very helpful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bhk03Wc3Is&feature=relmfu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfdCnMHYcK0&feature=relmfu

Just sharing a thought which may be helpful: Complimentary therapies often work like the spotter in a gym.. that bit of pressure is often enough to help the person lift the weight. People today look to drugs in order to lift the weight for them and lose the benefit of actually pushing on their own as well. Another way of looking at this is that the western medicine is the spotter, while the complimentary medicine is the push on the part of the patient. Sometimes, often, it just takes a little bit to help someone lift the weight. When the person doesn't do the work for themselves, they just get weaker and weaker rather than stronger by their own effort. "I do not open up the truth to one who is not eager to get knowledge, nor help out any one who is not anxious to explain himself. When I have presented one corner of a subject to any one, and he cannot from it learn the other three, I do not repeat my lesson." - Confucius

Thanks Steve there are some postural things that seem more natural than others to me. For example, sinking the shoulders and hollow the chest makes a lot of sense for defensive purposes. You can see when someone gets tense they instinctively do the opposite of this, often puffing the chest out and raising chin to appear intimidating, while exposing their entire upper body, chin, center.. I think my issue is mostly with the tucking of the tailbone. It seems to keep the posture more erect but less flexible to movement/adaptive response in directions etc. Perhaps it's just something to get used to, but at first it seems to limit movement. Also, isn't there some fairly extreme turning in Tai Chi as well? For example, silk reeling basically turns the hips/torso from one direction to other.

Would you say that all the same posture points of standing meditation should be maintained during tai chi and baguazhang?

So, to hold a good posture which enables Song, what would you all suggest? I know that a teacher is planets away from doing this on my own, but I don't have the resources needed for that. I am trying to work on some foundations to prepare for when I do meet with a teacher who can correct me. I currently do a few Chen tai chi foundation exercises, as well as some Bagua foundation exercises, and also Michael Lomax's Gift of Tao which I find has some similarities to these movements. What would the main points of posture be for Chen Tai Chi and/or Bagua? any videos or links also much appreciated Presently, I measure song somewhat like a white-pine needle.. loose but mildly resistant.

Just wanted to clarify: 20 to 30 minutes is a good starting goal for meditation. Even starting at 10 minutes and working up by 5 minutes is fine. Once someone gets good at meditation, even a short 5 minutes can help to re-center if that is all the time available. The idea, of course, is to enhance, engage, and strengthen your spiritual connection to life, not to escape it. When you are centered, this is possible, and living virtuously allows one to remain centered more often. I know this because it works for me, but that doesn't mean I can master it all the time... Be easy on yourself.. It's a journey of knowledge each and every day for everyone.. As long as you're "present" you're learning..

I third fourth or fifth the suggestion to learn how to meditate as it helps to steal back your focus which gets pulled about by external expectations, past experiences, thoughts about future outcomes. You need to be able to catch yourself falling into thoughts about the past and the future, and just do the present. When your sitting, just sit. When your washing the dishes, wash the dishes. When your talking to a girl, talk to the girl. Don't think about what might happen in the future, or base your current experience on past experiences. Just do the present and don't think too much about it. Start with just sitting and don't think too much about it. You're not going to disappear, your mind is not going to stop working, your not going to forget how to talk. Nor are you going to become He-Man. But you might begin to gain a great strength which few people work on.. this will give you the advantage that you won't fall to the disadvantage. This is all you need. Btw, lots of girls love to "work on" guys. they like to take a shy awkward dude with a bit of potential and 'turn him into a man.' It's like their nurturing impulse that draws them to this, also knowing that these good guys are honest and if they can just "work him" a little bit, he will be *perfect.* The women that do this are usually very outgoing and sexually open/comfortable, actresses.. actresses, they do this.. I don't know why... maybe they just love the plot development... don't put all your eggs in one basket either.. tunnel vision is a one way train.. plus, talking to other women ups your "perceived value" rather than seeming like nobody's buyin'... pushin' the product too hard seems like you don't believe it sells itself. listen, ask that's it..

I stick to my horses running in circles the pastures perimeter

Please excuse the lateness True, when the gov't. is footing the bill, prices often go up as the industry knows they will get it. However, that extra cost is not worth spiting at the expense of health care. Exactly. The people with any financial stability not only get hit with an illness or accident, but losing everything else all at the same time. How do they get better when they are losing everything else around them? Seems like a basic foundation of a collective and democratic society to ensure that no-one is put in this situation. The U.S., the W.E., the M.E., oh and China, are the only wealthy countries without socialized health-care. This situation is nearly unimaginable by most "1st" world citizens, and I use the term broadly. http://www.businessinsider.com/best-healthcare-systems-in-the-world-2012-6?op=1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_coverage_by_country The strange thing too is that it seems like people from the middle class don't want to pay for everyone's health care, and yet they are the same class that has the worst end of the bargain otherwise, not being able to pay for treatment nor eligible for subsidies. Get with the times (Lower Northern) America.

Personally, I've only had positive experiences with qi gong, and I've never studied face to face with a qi gong instructor. I think the difference here though is that I only use qi gong as a means towards a better quality of health. Its like learning how to ride a bike versus learning how drive a car or an airplane. When I feel ready to accommodate the commitment needed to "fly" into my life, I will work with an experienced teacher, as it would be a waste of time and dangerous to try to otherwise. In the meantime, I enjoy the benefits that I get from riding through traffic on my bike, and not worrying too much about the distant lands. I still enjoy and benefit from reading what the best "pilots" have said about travel, and often apply it to my little bike rides around town, getting me around a bit faster and smoother. I see the jet planes and the transport trucks, and I know we are doing different things, but to jump in a plane or transport truck on my own and try to drive it, or to do qi gong for several hours a day without proper instruction would just create a huge mess, and I know I'm more likely to get to those distant lands one day if I stick to enjoying my bike rides until I can commit to pilot school; nor can I afford the time to go to pilot school when I'm not prepared to finish it. Common sense is too often that "forest that gets missed for the trees."

I see my post may have caused a bit of confusion here, so I'll clarify what I was saying some more In not so many words, I just mean that there is likely not so much "duality" of yin and yang with the pre-heaven body, so to say it's "this" or "that" would be misleading, even more so if someone ever used them as some kind of map. In this instance, I find pre-natal to be more useful in talking about this from a perspective of Quan Zhen Taoism (not that I am an initiate, btw) as some important Quan Zhen writing speaks about the Buddhist "original face, before you were born" and also talks about Si Zi's writing. This "original face, before you were born" and the pre-heaven state are overtly synonymous in some important Taoist writing on meditation. Also from Doctrine of the Mean: "This Equilibrium is the great root from which grow all the human actings in the world, and this Harmony is the universal path which they all should pursue." I'm just offering some things for consideration, that seem they really ought to be considered as they appeared around the same time the Dao De Jing was written and inevitably had influence on much of the writing that came after it. I do appreciate to hear informed and honest opinions to take into consideration. My above posts are merely for consideration, if you so choose to consider them. Edit: further note: "The Scripture of the Great Pervader/ Ta Tung Ching" also exemplifies this influence from Doctrine of the Mean when speaking of "state of previous existence." Excuse my ignorance if I am well mistaken. These did seem worthy of bringing into the conversation.

I would think that pre-heaven body is more yang/airy/spirit, post heaven more yin/earth/water, but these words are post-heaven so they wouldn’t be worth much for pre-heavenly description(s). To paraphrase Si Zi, Confucius grandson, the state of emotional equilibrium is the root from which emotional harmony arises. I think that this Equilibrium is the pre-natal state, while this Harmony is the post-natal state “Let the states of equilibrium and harmony exist in perfection, and a happy order will prevail throughout heaven and earth, and all things will be nourished and flourish.” – Si Zi I believe this Confucian text was influential on many Taoist texts which were somewhat syncretistic. Mind you, this is my own association of this Confucian text to pre-natal/heavenly and post-natal/heavenly, so please only take it as such. However, I think you can see the links in wording and ideas. The Yin Fu Jing, attributed to The Yellow Emperor though possibly written after or around the time of Si Zi, has much in common to the above instruction on The Way. Both of these texts seem to be very influential in Quan Zhen Taoism.