Harmonious Emptiness

Do you realize that you are experiencing The Future at this moment? . . . . .

white billowing clouds gat ta face de fact dat de Egypt was black

I think that says it all right there. Some people take it up just to join the in-crowd. Other people take up the peanut gallery making fun of them to join the in-crowd. Either way there's a place for the lost to protect themselves in the group-think. The videos are funny and make a point, but I think they also sort of feed the other side of mindless adherence to a seemingly secure place to put your brain, which TV culture thrives on and I hate the smell of it even when it makes me laugh.

yeah, I think, going with the tree planting metaphor, that knowing about the alchemy is like planting the tree in the sun so it will turn its leaves when it feels the sun rising... edit: but of course, forget this too

Falling from the sky Spinning through the air. Quiet. Surface layer ice.

can't have non-duality without duality?

I'm glad you made this topic, and that I'm not alone here on this. There is so much about pills and elixers, seeds, and metals, but when I read the writings of early masters they seem to say these are just metaphors for the clear heart and still mind upon which alchemical processes sprout. Like you must plant the seed (attain stillness, freedom from desire) and then just wait for the rain to fall so to speak (though not a perfect metaphor as daily work, psychology, diet, abstinence (of differing degrees), and other things play integral roles). For example, Duanyan wrote: "The secret workings of the subtle mysteries can be summed up by this statement: In absolute stillness and in the absence of desire you will see the subtleties. This absolute stillness is necessary for stabilizing original nature. When it is time for movement to occur, the one primordial vapor of the origin will emerge from the void and the One cavity will materialize. Original nature and primordial vapour both originate from the taiji. In nothingness, we see the subtleties of original nature and attain the One Mystery..." - Discussion on the Cavity of Tao, ch. 15, in Eva Wong's "Holding Yin, Embracing Yang" People may say the philosophy is all talk and no action, but most modern alchemical instruction seems rather all action no talk and this ends up misleading people imo. I personally think the Taoist methods are much more simple, but they are infused with East Indian techniques which have become of greater interest and focus as they are more tangible and thus more accessible to the yang predominance of modern society. They work for some people's life and goals, so they have value, but I think they generally try to put the cart before the horse for a Taoist path. I'm not saying there isn't more to Taoist alchemical practices than emptiness meditation, but it seems to be lacking which is like expecting a tree to grow without planting a bulb in the ground first..

I hope I'm not just repeating myself here, but: (now, I don't think it is your intent here to say that one should not have intent, though this could be read as such) I don't think wu wei is about non-intent but just about selfish intent and overly calculated intent, following the kidneys and the heart might be a good way to explain the level of self involvement. I think the level of intent in doing so is just the intent to keep the "methodical mind" from interfering with perception, intuition, and adaptation. Not to say that methods should not be learned, but only to enable and strengthen the body, mind, and spirit, removing restrictions to ability and movement..

Something about destroying a sacred, ancient, Taoist temple seems like a pretty bad feng shui move.

I'm pretty sure I've read that Wang Liping has to get in contact with regional sky dragons in order to influence weather. Reading this reminded me of Native Americans who communicate with "cloud people" to do the same. So I think on some real level they are said to exist as well, though maybe on a less tangible level than clouds.

When I was about 17, I was lying on a hill with a friend in Toronto, looking at the sky. The sky was blue but covered over with broken white clouds. Studying the clouds I noticed IN-CREDIBLE detail of a dragon covering the entire sky as far as I could see. The stomach muscles and even the scales were in detail. I can't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure it had wings and legs and tail and a face as well. I pointed it all out to my friend and he he saw it all exactly the same. We looked at it for about 30 minutes. Full dragon across the entire sky in full detail. Unbelievable, but I'll never forget that. I'm sure some Taoist priests have seen such things a few times at least.

I think the differences can be seen when applying the understanding of "empty" for wu. Empty just in the Taoist sense of an empty heart for example doesn't mean someone is lifeless, but rather clear in their heart. So emptiness in action, from a martial application, would be emptying your mind of training exercises "he's gonna move left so I'm gonna do move a, b, and c" and moving with the opponent to redirect his energy rather than pushing against it. The body might be trained to do this and this and that, but action which is empty will respond like water running over rocks and so forth. The more philosophical or moral understanding would be not acting out of ego, not doing everything out of self-concern.

Well, you're back to ground zero. Sometimes what seems terrible and shitty can turn out to be a blessing as it forces us to seek change and improvement when we were just coasting along without much direction or drive. It's important to do what drives you, even if it doesn't get you things you might think you need. Example, I need to play music. If I find myself not playing I question -wtf am I doing?- and then just getting out to play I feel back in the game. If there were anything to aura colours, I'm feeling that red aura where I'm driven to do something, moving forward and prepared to run through puddles of mud to get there. What did you always want to do as a kid? That's what you need to do. We need to do these things like breathing. Breathing might not make us all the vain glorious things we dreamed about as a kid, but it keeps us running and even powerful and VIBRANT !!!!!!

Just wanted to mark, this, the 10,000th reply on The Taoist Discussion!!! edit: well, the 10,001st reply.. looks like Ish got in a bit earlier on: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/22249-debunking-fake-qigong-power/page__st__96

As with Christianity and Buddhism, it really depends on where you're getting your information from. Some Christians will say things like you have heard, while others talk about the mercy and forgiveness of God which nullifies such things. Some Buddhists might say that minor negative actions will put you 100 lifetimes from Nirvana, while others say that these actions are immediately erased when you get on the right track. Taoism has a philosophical side, a more "religious" side, and a more esoteric yogic side. I think overall, there is nothing about one slip up and your done though. The approach is more one similar to psychology, where having a heart full of negative emotions leads to your own misery which you owe it to yourself to transcend, but the main concern would be almost like a health issue so long as the person doesn't cause suffering to others. To learn more, I recommend reading The Chuang Tzu (Burton Watson translation here) And The Tao Te Ching (excellent translation can be downloaded from here) Also, some great article someone linked earlier: taoism.net

Yeah, the fact that they're holding their feet seems like they're stretching or exercising more than anything else.

Well the thing with Anarchism is that it is basically a philosophical seed that grows out into different branches depending on the soil. So you have anarcho-communism, anarcho-socialism, anarcho-capitalism, anarcho-syndicalism, anarcho-mutualism, etc. The base of all of these is mostly the principle of autonomy and mutual respect. For me, the principles are the main thing, and I think we've seen that change is possible by "soft-power" methods where people change the way they do things and this inspires the society at large. Soft power can still be drastic, but the thing is that it is more gradual and more saturating than using force, since the effect doesn't disappear when the force disappears. When people start to realize that groups function better when afforded their humanity and autonomy, rather than treating everyone like a bunch of inmates, then the changes will seemingly make themselves. Personally, I think very little of the social structure would need to be changed (other than the corruption of course) if the ideals of mutual-respect-and-autonomy were seen in play wherever organization and authority exist.

doesn't wu also mean empty in a way? like wuji and wuxi? so wu wei would be like empty action, or meditation in action, or just doing things without predetermined objectives and a "when the only tool you have is a hammer" type approach...? Maybe just empty of thoughts like when you're really into what you're doing and you move with it like water down a stream.. That's what it means to me anyway.. though of course just because that might be what the two words mean doesn't mean that's the only possible answer.

I guess a sage is in harmony with themselves which makes them in harmony with the world, yet finds this so simple that they barely even notice it themselves. On top of this, I think there's something to the virtuous asking heaven for a break and often getting it, regardless of any training. Just being in harmony with everything is their virtue, and given that this requires less ego and so forth, the other virtues are included as part of this package deal.

Okay, well that's new to me, though I can't say I'm surprised they might do that as well. Nonetheless, that seems to be the only picture, whereas others where there more obvious magical stuff going on has them standing or sitting. Any idea what year that would have been from, or which temple? It looks a bit later period.

Yeah, I think one support to this is that the Ancient Egyptians, who who predated East Indians in chakra, kundalini, and rainbow body type practices, do not have any pictures of people in full lotus position. It seems like they may have used mostly standing and chairs even.

It gets tricky too though when kids are already wired this way and feel lost without praise. How do we fix them by the way we respond without sending them into a spiral of self-pity or doubt? Most things are done by one motivation or another, though, and teachers' #1 job is creating the motivation to learn on one's own, imo. So what are some "safe" ways to motivate? It bothers me too when I hear adults overpraising kids out of nowhere -- not realizing that it suggests the kid would be in shit without the adult authorization. Like when some old woman starts praising someone else's kid on the subway "oh, that's a nice snowjacket! blah blah blah" I just think "what would I say to her if that was my kid?" How do we fix the adults with this problem? They're usually praise junkies as well, so putting it nicely is quite a challenge.

Hopefully we can try to stay mindfull of Right Speech and Intention in this conversation. ("Abandoning abusive speech, he abstains from abusive speech. He speaks words that are soothing to the ear, that are affectionate, that go to the heart, that are polite, appealing & pleasing to people at large.") There is the popular assumption that Buddhists don't believe in a higher creative force. As some of us started to discuss in a recent thread, this is not so much the case. I would like to add that, in the same way many people judge Buddhism by it's lowest practices (essentially wrong or misguided practices), many judge monotheistic religions by the misguided practices that grew out of them due to cultural baggage. So, it would be good if we could look at the right practices of both sides rather than the common or cultural deviations which obviously don't reflect the spiritual person. I think it can be agreed that all spiritual traditions, in one way or another, pray similarly "lead me to live in the spirit and not the flesh" in order to transcend animalistic emotions and become closer to the One Spirit (never heard that term, but I think it works all the same). For a starting point, I'll re-post this description of The Dharmakaya, which I think is essentially the same as what Westerners commonly call "God." Now, the practice of becoming One may differ from sect to sect, but I think it's safe to say that the true "taste" of Dharmakaya, God, The Creator, and possibly The Tao, is the same all around. Anyone with knowledge of Kabbhala could help me here, as I've read that the original understandings of Yahweh are not anthropomorphized. There is difficulty in understanding how one can pray or speak to the One Spirit but I have no conflict there, personally. Asking The One to bring us closer into harmony with the qualities of harmony is the same, imo, as meditating to bring the self into harmony with Harmony. Here is a definition of The Dharmakaya. Hopefully this roller coaster will be an enjoyable ride! "The Dharmakaya completely transcends time and space but is also, at the same time, to be found in all things and within all sentient beings. It constitutes the fundamental essence of all existence and possesses, pre-eminently, the qualities of absolute wisdom, compassion and bliss. It is the principal aim of Mahayana Buddhism to ultimately attain, for oneself and others, blissful and eternal union with this reality - a state more commonly referred to as Nirvana. In itself, the Dharmakaya remains unknowable and imperceptible to our ordinary human faculties of sense and cognition. One can only be made aware of it through prajna which is an intuitive power capable of seeing things as they are, undistorted by the influence of ignorance and the myriad passions that afflict us constantly."

I'll take that as a yes then.