Harmonious Emptiness

The Vipissana Chi Kung cult of eternal ellocution.

What isn't it??? (henceforth the pseudo Buddhist answer to ALL new questions

Not far off from what Otis was saying, (hey O!) I'd say motivation usually comes from wanting to do things the best. Like I'm replying to this post: I have a motivation to do a good job of it just because I don't like looking at things later and thinking "I could have done that better." I feel like "why bother doing something if I'm not going to do it to well." I'm sure you do the same thing. When you wrote this topic, you probably tried to do the best job you could do (more effort doesn't always mean more results). Anything we do, most people try to do it to the best of their ability without loosing their cool. As natural as this is, it also corresponds to cultivating a "kung-fu attitude," but I think if you realize that you do it naturally, maybe instinctively, you might be able to apply the same attitude to whatever you're doing. "right effort, right concentration" - Buddha's Noble Eightfold Path

I don't know what this might do, but I usually have the tip of my tongue in the fire position, the back of my tongue on the kidney position, and the center of my tongue not touching anything. Does this have any effect on the kidneys, or anything else? thanks

Not sure if they are all the same thing, but they are usually used to mean the same thing in Buddhism. I don't know too much about the Atman. It could be much more than just the self or Ego. The Ego is another term that is used loosely in most instances, as mentioned back in "mistranslating super-ego as ego," so it's hard to say whether it's the same as "the self" that appears in Buddhist translations. Either way, the terms are still on the "name that can be named" side, so they're usage is purely utilitarian value, imo. When the screw has been turned, the butter knife is put away(?)..

You were setting up the conversation for it? That's funny, because I was sitting on the fence as to mention in here and then your topic pushed me over. I guess it was just sitting in the collective memory, waiting for someone to pull it in, lol..

Some leaves blowing through my mind right now is that: even in oneness with the Tao, emotions, dislikes, anger, desires, do not stop washing up on the shore, but on some rocks the waves form pools, whereas others don't have anywhere to store them

My bold. Where does Taoism say this? It does say this: The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth. The named is the mother of the ten thousand things. Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery. Does it say ... desire arises form ego clinging and is bad? What does it mean then? (I know what I think - I wonder what you think ) Well, what I was saying is that, though Taoism doesn't necessarily speak about the Ego/Self/Atman, but it does prescribe many things that serve to detach from clinging to it; such as loosing selfishness, serving others, being one with the Tao and releasing desires that make us cling to the ordinary world (ordinary world being my own term, I'm sure you know what I mean by it). High level Taoists also practice extreme fasting in various forms which serves to allow them to release the "I need" impulse (which is often described as the root of the Ego in Buddhist writing). When someone is one with the Tao they don't have "hey, what about me" thoughts, so I think even at a more "stream entry" level there is a basic relinquishing of the ego. Now, the other side of this is that Buddhists don't just lose their attachment to the Ego, they also objectively deny it's inherent existence. Taoists might not have used this vehicle, but when you get to the shore you leave the boat behind anyway In regards to Chapter 1 above: "Darkness within darkness" The emptiness of Emptiness. What is emptiness? Emptiness is nothing, but "The named is the mother of the ten thousand things." so when Emptiness is named it is also form. Right now I desire to give an answer to this, so I give it form, but it is not the form that is the answer. If one desires only form then they will only know "the name that can be named." When they don't desire, they can know "the mystery." To desire is to see 10,000 lyrical descriptions, definitions, and fixed perceptions all of which themselves still leave the full mystery ungrasped. Thanks for the question.. mmm, that was tasty

I can't really say I would leave it to popular Egyptologists to look for Osirian attributes in the pantheon of some nearby tribes, but it's easier to grasp than E.Ts. Though I don't want to start a long futile debate about evidence based theories (not necessarily involving conspiracy to cover it up), I will say that a lot of the Afrocentric Egyptologists are not taken seriously just because they change the whole playing field and so people would rather deride than listen to what they have to say and change their perception of the world (not aiming that at you -K-, just the way it goes in the mainstream..). Of course there are zealous speculators but there's usually some (perhaps unexplained) evidence behind most of the theorizing, so if people don't want to consider it and just live in the present, that's cool... the present will still change as time goes on and the past RETURNS!!!

I think you'll find that Taoism addresses non-duality (advaita vedanta) and Emptiness/Form (mahamudra) at least in practice, if not philosophically as well. It is one of the ongoing debates here though lol

Yeah, true, good point. Sage tea is good for grounding.. Mint, Rooibos, and other herbal teas might help to calm the nerves just in the ritual of drinking tea alone

I thought this would be mentioned in the "Native American Immortals" thread, but it was something else. However, I was thinking to mention about the similarity of Taoist Immortals to the Native American's Shaman Ancestors Council which is very similar. Basically, the same idea, that all the greatest shamans join a council on the other side and continue to help in the same way as Taoist Immortals: guiding, influencing, teaching, etc., appearing in dreams and visions. This makes sense to me considering the spiritual power they held in the physical realm. Maybe they decide things like "you've done well and can work from up here now.. You've got some lessons to learn -- you're coming back as a beaver..."

I'm not sure where I read about Osiris being worshiped earlier.. may have been comparing similarities to Ogun or nearby tribal gods.. unless it was about Ra or Horus resembling other gods. I'm pretty sure I've read that a few of the deities were worshiped separately before the inclusive mythology connected the whole cosmic history. In "Osiris" by Wallis Budge (pub. 1911, 1st chapter) it says: "It is unlikely that Abydos was the original home of the worship of Osiris, indeed there is good reason for thinking that it was not; but abundant evidence exists to show that the town was one of the principal centres of his cult from the beginning to the end of the Dynastic Period." I don't see what evidence he's referring to though.. Later Egyptologists may have had better evidence, however.

If it's GREEN its good Sparrow pauses in question Elm swallows some rain

A crazy thought connection I had in regards to this.. in the following order.. 1) The Osiris temples were in southern/"Upper Egypt" were possibly more African than the North which would have been more multi-cultural. + 2) Right around the time that Ancient Egypt [which I'll call Khemet ("The Black Land") as that's what it was called during that time] was about to hit it's stride, the rulers (located at the time in southern Egypt and mostly worshiping Osiris) moved the kingdom to northern Egypt. (I've read that Osiris apparently was worshiped apart from and before the other Khemetic divinities) anyhow.. knowing that the Khemetics were African... 3) Hopi prophecy says the black race bring the water (however you want to read that) 4) Mayans (not far from Arizona) prophecy a change for 2012 5) Khemetic Astrology puts The Age of Aquarius (The Water Bearer) around 2012 6) Khemetics, "Water Bearers", lived a very spiritually integrated lifestyle and carried their knowledge of spiritual renewal everywhere they went and may have been plagiarized by and/or highly influential to other religions. 7) The USA, with a majorly Freemason base (which heavily borrows from Khemetics) recently had a cultural revolution where black culture was again plagiarized (see rock and roll music) and provided a foundation to its cultural consciousness (really I don't know what you would call Culture in the US before rock and roll and the odd writer). 8) Western society has been "loosened up" enough to accept the need for a more spiritually conscious culture, and so the Aquarians/Water Bearers/Khemetics/Africans will bring more culture (Water) and restore its lost connection to itself/the universe...

All I can say is that, the same feeling of chi moving through the body during qi gong, starts to naturally travel through the body after meditation reaches a point where channels loosen up. I breathe in through the dantien, up the front drawing into my nose. Exhaling it naturally flows down through posterior meridians and muscles and returns to the muladhara, rising up from there again through the Conception Vessel. Perhaps because I breathe from the dantien then up through my nose and up to my head. Also, maybe my frontal meridians are more open so I start there for meditation. If the energy is there and I feel the need to circulate it, then the fire path is more accessible. But when it's more spontaneous the water path is my "path of least resistance." I'm not sure why this is though. Moving the chi through the body feels purifying and nourishing; that's all I really know about it. So, I'm wondering what others can tell me about the "water path" orbit ?

I wonder if someone could explain the uses of the "water path" of the MCO, ie., going up the front and down the back. This seems to be more natural for me (most of the time), but I haven't heard much about it. thanks

A quote from Chuang Tzu, book 24, ch.12: ".. Hence there are none whom he brings very near to himself and none whom he keeps at a great distance. he keeps his virtue in close embrace and warmly nourishes the spirit of harmony, so as to be in accord with all men. Thsi is called the true man. Even the knowledge of the ant he puts away. his plans are simply those of the fishes. Even the notions of the sheep he discards. His seeing is simply that of the eye, his hearing that of the ear; his mind is governed by its general exercises. Being such, his course is straight and level as if marked out by a line, and its every change is in accordance with the circumstances of the case."

dbl. post

Wow, cool. You actually studied with Kwan Sai Hung! If you listen to some stuff online, it seems that Deng Ming Dao more or less used him as a model for a story based on events which may have happened though not necessarily to Kwan Sai Hung himself. I don't doubt his expertise in numerous areas of Taoism, but the accuracy of Chronicles of the Tao to the real life of Kwan Saihung may be mostly fantastic.. Unfortunately even his childhood at Wu Dang seems to be unverifiable. Did he say anything about his past? I do have a few of Deng Ming Dao's books though and am grateful for his illustrations of Taoist knowledge and culture. Here was an earlier Tao Bums thread: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/8102-master-kwan-sai-hung/

You mean like focusing on the solution rather than the problem, but it's the same problem? Taoism does speak a lot about desire and selfishness and thinking too much about right and wrong. These are all manifestations of ego so you could say that Taoism does talk about uprooting the causes of ego grasping.

Every false ego right now convincing the heart-mind to follow it

there is a similar passageway in Longmenpai Taoism. Rebirth also plays a role in pretty much every tradition in one way or another, including Khemetics, Freemasonry, Shamanism, and Christianity.

Hey happy new moon errrybody 29/08/11

Yes, I agree. Though not so philosophically stated as in Buddhist scriptures, Taoist masters absolutely had to transcend "the self" in order to achieve their heights of mastery. A person can't sit in a cave and successfully meditate for 3 months straight without going through an ego crisis of "Why is this happening to me?!!" unless they have managed to transcend "the self" and see the illusionary nature of this "dependently originated void of inherited existence" or whuchamacallit.