dawg

Hello Taomeow, Thanks for your comment, Almost anyone can see the spirit world and communicate with spirits, if they are serious about meditation, and can reach "one pointedness"... That is no big deal... At that point there are many paths that a person can follow, depending on their goal... Some who meditate seek powers... but my belief if that "powers" are seductive and give you a high, and as such they are like an addictive drug... I also think that if a person is actively practicing trying to attain powers, that they have already been seduced by those powers... and even if they achieve those powers, they are no closer to enlightenment... and my goal is to reach enlightenment, or get as far along the path as I can... If I reach enlightenment, powers would come as a byproduct and I would be beyond seduction. The universe is a very big place full of all kinds of beings, who came from the spirit world when they were born, and return to the spirit world when they die, just like us... Some spirits are benevolent and some are predators (such as energy vampires)... I only trust a spirit that I can see, and can hear their tone of voice, because then it is impossible for them to deceive me... I trust beings in the heavenly realms, except the earth devas (nymphs, satyrs, nagas, earth spirits), because they are bummed out by the human race (that they share earth with) and can be very tricky... But it is impossible for my spirit guide and the beings in the other heavenly realms to lie to me (their high attainment level prevents it, they must speak the truth)... I have experienced automatic writing, but don't trust it (and shun it) because I don't know what kind of spirit I am dealing with... I don't trust shamans because they have chosen "powers" instead of "enlightenment", and they can be very tricky (suck you in, then lie to you), and because I don't know what spirits (usually earth spirits which I don't trust) that they are involved with... Although a real shaman has powers to manipulate the physical world, for good or evil. "I also don't trust the person who says that they want to "save the world"... that is the biggest "ego trip" and "power trip" a person can have (a cosmic sized delusion)... they should save themselves first... then they would realize that the world doesn't need saving, and that what other people do is none of their business anyway... and that you can't save people who don't want to be saved... and that the only way to save people is by setting a good example, so that others can save themselves.. My dharma teacher (a Buddhist monk) tells me not to spend too much time in the spirit world... that the spirit world is for "spiritual tourism", that it is a side show that in no way advances my practice... So my interaction with spirits is not an important part of my practice... It is just something that happens, when it happens... I don't pursue it in any way. Although my path is Theravada Buddhism, I have been reading threads in The Tao Bums Forum because the posts and comments are made by people on a spiritual journey (like myself)... I am learning about Taoism by reading what you write, and following links... I started this topic to share my experiences with you, in return for you sharing your experiences with me... When you read what I write, bear in mind that I am speaking from the point of view of Theravada Buddhism, not Taoism... It seems to me that the biggest difference between the Theravada and Taoism is that in Theravada, there is only one path with one goal which is enlightenment... And in Theravada meditation, the physical body is considered loathsome and disgusting, so that when you die, you will not want another body and be tempted to reincarnate... Metta,

Hello Observer, Thanks for your comment. As I understand nirvana (enlightenment): When you reach enlightenment you have achieved total unity (non duality), you no longer create any new karma, but while your physical body is still alive you are still subjected to your old karma, then when your body dies your old karma dies with your body... But you will never die again, and need to be reborn again... You are an "indestructible unity"... totally complete, needing nothing and wanting nothing... Total "emptiness"... But not emptiness in the sense of nothingness... Your awareness is emptiness in the sense of infinite potential... your awareness is an empty stage that you can fill with anything of your choice, or leave empty. Buddhism recognizes that the gods (plural) exist, and one of the heavenly realms is a "god & goddess realm"... But all beings in the spirit realms including the gods (but not those in the Buddha realm), were born in that realm and must die and be reincarnated again in whatever realm that their karma sends them to... The gods are not immortal, nor all powerful... They are just beings who probably started out as humans, and worked their way up to the god realm. They have a lot of power, and a very long life span, but in the end they are mortal and subject to the same natural (spiritual) laws of the universe as us.

The moon the Buddha's finger points to is not really the spirit world. That's a mistake. The fingers points to Nirvana, or a non-dual reality beyond both the spirit world and the physical world. In this case reality is also a special kind of view. In spiritual systems of thought realities and views are not two distinct things. In non-spiritual systems of thought reality is often separate and distinct from views. ************************************************************************************** Hello Goldisheavy, Thanks for your comment... I almost didn't put the Buddha quote in the paper (I took it out, then put it back in). But within the context of the paper (Spirit World & Physical World), I decided to use it to convey the idea that a religion (the finger pointing) was only a road map or set of instructions (part of the physical world, and not the main event)... That reaching the highest level of attainment (that you are capable of) in spirit world (the moon)was the main event... I have listened to a lot of Dharma talks and discussions at the monastery where I have been meditating, and it is my understanding that a person who reaches nirvana goes to the Buddha Realm which is the highest realm in the spirit world... and people who are "on the path" to nirvana (who will have no more than 8 reincarnations before they reach nirvana), are reincarnated no lower than the human realm, but usually in a heavenly realm... you may reach nirvana while still alive (like the Buddha), but nirvana is not really a condition of the physical world, that you are already in the Buddha realm at the top of the spirit world even though you still have a body... To me the Buddha's finger pointing at the moon, is the Buddha pointing out the spiritual path (road map) you have to follow to reach nirvana, which is the highest realm in the spirit world... And to get there you have to be aware of the spirit world first, and then understand that the spirit world is more important than the physical world... Metta, Dawg

(A suggestion: please consider removing the quotes key from your keyboard - it becomes pretty distracting). ******************************************************* Hello Manitou, Thanks for the welcome... And regarding all the quotes, I plead guilty as charged... I used to use upper case type, but I kicked that habit by switching to quotes... I thought it was a little less offensive... I can't remove the quote key because I need the other symbol on the key... but I will try to restrain my finger every time it starts reaching for the "quote" key. Metta, Dawg

*********************************************************** Hello Mal, Thanks for the welcome, and for moving this post into the forum. Metta, Dawg