dawg

So lucid dreaming can directly lead into an OBE/Astral Projection if you so desire?

Hello Observer,

The answer is yes... your mind is always in the spirit world... but when you are awake, your senses (sight, sound, smell, taste, touch), combined with that little voice in your head (non stop junk thinking) anchor you in the physical world... when you are asleep, your physical senses and your conscious thinking, are turned off... so your mind is at rest in the spirit world... if you are aware that you are dreaming, it is like being awake and aware in your sleep, but your body is shut down.... all the barriers that normally keep you from seeing the spirit world are shut down, and you are awake and aware... so once you realize that you are already in the spirit world, you can walk out of your dream and explore the spirit world... using your thoughts to manipulate your experience of it...

Metta,

Dawg,

 

Do you feel comfortable giving tips into percieving the spirit world? I would like some advice if your so inclined.

Hello Mokona,

Dreams take place in the spirit world, so they are an open door to the spirit world...

If when you are dreaming, and in the dream you know you are dreaming, you can take control of your dream... instead of being passive and reacting to the dream, do the opposite of what you are supposed to do, or ignore your dream altogether and walk away, out of your dream... this is called "lucid dreaming".

This is probably the easiest and fastest way to get to the spirit world.

below are 3 links that I got just now by googling "lucid dreaming...You can also follow links to other sites.

if you check them out, you will see all of the many things that people do using lucid dreaming... also methods that people use to learn how to do lucid dreaming... and how to control lucid dreams.

you could also use your meditation to help you develop lucid dreaming.

http://www.wikihow.com/Lucid-Dream

http://www.lucidity.com/LucidDreamingFAQ2.html

http://web-us.com/lucid/luciddreamingfaq.htm

Metta,

Hello dwag,

Ive enjoyed reading your post.

How did you meet your spirit guide?Did he just come to you or you were asking for one?

In out of body travels ,someone is always with me -same person always comes ,but I cant see how he looks like for real. No matter how hard I try,becouse my mind is still coloured .

Hello Suninmyeyes,

One day when I was in the spirit world, a voice on my right shoulder started talking to me... I thought "voice on my right shoulder talking in my right ear ??? ... that's my "guardian angel" !!! ... it was a male voice that sounded very trustworthy... but I couldn't see him... I have assumed he is from one of the higher realms where spirits are pure mind with no body... I never know if he is there unless he talks...

Metta,

Hi dawg. This seems to be a simplistic interpretation. I am wondering, do you really think the Buddha was referring to the 'spirit world' in the reference to the 'finger pointing to the moon'? It would seem that if that is all that was meant, then he could just simply say, "hey, there is a spirit world that exists beyond this world that you can't see. It is just another relative realm, just as this one is". Since the Buddha could only hint at what he was actually referring to, is it not more likely that the Buddha was actually hinting at something that is beyond words and concepts and rational understanding, and thus it can only be hinted at? Also, please correct me if I am wrong but, from what I understand, Buddha did not preach a religion at all, but instead just gave lectures on dharmma, i.e., ways to achieve enlightenment? Was it not actually later followers who created a religion around the Buddha or other Buddhas?

I am not trying to be contentious here at all, just curious if this is really how you see things, or am I misunderstanding you?

 

By the way, I thought your description of your meditation technique was very clear. So were you describing a way to meditate, or were you expounding religious doctrine?

Hello "The Way Is Virtue",

The meditation technique I described was just a way to meditate that I learned at a Theravada monastery, and it works for me... I see it as the "Physics of the mind", simple cause and effect... I am a very "spiritual" person, but I am not "religious"... To me "religion" contains too much dead wood and bull shit... This is why I wrote the original post explaining that "religion" and the "spirit world" are two completely different things... Most religious people are obsessed with the picky little details (dogma, rituals, politics, other people's morality, etc) of their religion, and are not even aware that "spirituality" exists, it is just a word... if they had a spiritual experience, they would run to the doctor and get some pills to make sure it didn't happen again...

You are correct in saying that the Buddha was not preaching a religion... and you are correct that the Buddha was no talking about "just" any old part of the spirit world... but remember that the Buddhas dwell in the "Buddha realm" which is the highest realm in the spirit world, so the spirit world includes the goal of enlightenment... but it also includes the lesser goals for people who are unable to reach enlightenment in this lifetime... The Buddha's teachings were for both monks and lay people.

There is only the physical world, and the spirit world, there is no other place to exist in our universe... the spirit world (and the physical world) is a cosmic reality, real beyond any doubt,from the lowest hell realm, up to the Buddha realm... religion and the spirit world are two completely seperate things... religion is just a man made concept, trying to describe the spirit world (which includes enlightenment)... religion is not "the goal", it is just a signpost (a finger) pointing to the the spirit world (moon) where all of the spiritual goals (destinations that we go to, when our body dies) are located... The ideal goal is nirvana, but few people will reach nirvana in this life... but everyone can strive to reach the highest level of attainment (goal) that they can in this life, and thereby reach a higher level in the spirit world, and that is a valid goal as well... The whole idea of spiritual attainment, is too achieve upwards mobility in the spirit world. Nirvana (enlightenment) is just the final goal, the final attainment.

If what I wrote seemed too simplistic, I plead guilty as charged... When writing about spiritual stuff, I never know if I am being too simplistic, or beating a dead horse... please forgive me for my sins, I am not perfect, I might be just a dawg but my intentions are good.

Thanks for the comment. You are keeping me honest.

Metta,

Yea I think I agree, because recently I have stopped putting up with people treating me like crap and now everyone is freaking out lol. Today my wife called her brother over because she is getting frustrated with me not letting her treat me like crap, so I guess she thought her brother could do it instead. So when he stated yelling at me, and instead of just putting up with it, rather I got into a Karate stance and gave him the death stare he seemed shocked, and so did my wife. It was like they had this look "this isn't how he usual reacts to this" lol. My father is in a state of shock too as last year I went off on him too, and now we are not speaking to each other which suites me fine, as when we did speak he treated me like crap also. This is also why I am going to go to Texas and put these people out of my life, but all the people who are used to treating me like crap are sure in a state of shock lately lol.

Hello Dmattwads,

If you act like a "victim", you will attract "abusers" because they like the way you act...

If you act like the person you want to be, and follow your heart... You will attract people who like the way you act...

After some time passes, and your father realizes that you really are not going to let him treat you like crap... and you start talking again... you might find that he treats you with great respect, because you stood up to him... and that (he will not say it to your face, but) he is proud of you, and brags about you to his friends...

good luck, I wish you the best.

Metta,

Dawg,

 

would you mind telling me what is there exactly that you see in the spirit world?

 

Thanks!

 

L1

... I am in the spirit world… I am high above the earth, flying over an arid landscape, it looks like the American west, like the New Mexico bad lands... There is a range of mountains below me and some flat land on either side. A movement below catches my eye, and without any conscious effort, I zoom in on it. I then realize that I have “telescopic vision”, and can zoom in and look at things below as if I were only a few feet away. The movement I saw was a mouse foraging for seeds under a bush. When it would find a seed, it would sit up and eat it… I then zoom back out and look at a wider view. Another movement catches my eye. I see a group of men on horseback riding fast. I zoom in on them. In front of them is one horseman who is looking at the ground carefully as he rides. I understand that he is leading a “posse” of men following the trail of an outlaw... I then zoom out again, and scan the area in front of them… the posse are heading towards a low mountain pass, and on the other side of the pass, I see a lone horseman riding as fast as he can, so I zoom in to see him up close… he is slapping the flank of his horse with the palm of his right hand, to spur it on. This is obviously who the posse is chasing…. Then my spirit guide says in my right ear, that we need to go on now, we need to hurry or we might be late…

So now I am flying alone over the sea, then up a coast line which is to my left... the land is flat and covered with grass, and where it meets the sea, it drops straight down into sea (like the white chalk cliffs at Dover, England)… I see a group of about 8 people flying ahead of me. I know that I am supposed to be part of that group. I try to catch up with them, but no matter how fast I fly, they stay ahead of me… Up ahead where the land slopes down to the sea, there is a small seaside village of medieval stone houses built around a public square… attached to one corner of the square is a small harbor for boats, protected by a stone breakwater. The group of people ahead of me land where the port joins one corner of the square, and are hurrying diagonally across the square, as I am landing. There are no boats in the harbor, or people, or animals in the village. It is as if the village has been abandoned, or as if it were just a stage set for a movie. There is none of the clutter of small things that “real” villages have, there are no statues or monuments, no fountain or street lights, no benches or signs, no rubbish ... I want to explore and look at the village, but the group that I am following hurry diagonally across the square and are disappearing down a street, so I hurry across the square and follow them… The street turns right and becomes a road that climbs up behind the houses of the village, so that I can look down into the village square. When the road reached the sea, it turns left and follows the coast… the road goes around a point where I have a good view of the sea… although it gives off no heat (physical sensation), the sun is shining and glinting off the waves of the sea below, giving the sea a sparkling effect. I can see and zoom in on two sailing ships in full sail that are sailing down the coast side by side. (the ships look like sailing ships of the 1600’s or 1700’s). I can see men in the rigging working the sails, and hear them laughing and singing, and shouting to one another from ship to ship. It looks like they are having a friendly race, and having a good time… Ahead of me on the road, I see that the group that I am following have turned left away from the sea, and are about to enter a small (1950’s California modern looking) building of one floor. The front of the building is made of vertical white panels, except for the door that is flanked on either side by “poodle trees”. (a topiary : a shrub clipped so that it’s foliage forms three spheres, one above the other on a single trunk.)… the building is bad enough, but I can’t believe that I am seeing “poodle trees” in a heavenly realm… I open the door and go inside. Stretching out in front of me is a large wide corridor that seems to vanish to a point in the distance. I can see the group I am following is already hurrying down the corridor, so I hurry after them. As I hurry down the corridor after the group, I notice that the corridor and whole building keeps changing from one historic style of architecture to another. One minute it looks like a roman building, the next minute a Chinese building, the next minute it is another style, then another style, and so on. So I stop moving, and the building stops changing. So I walk backwards for a few steps, and the building starts changing again. I wonder if the building would always appear the same when viewed from the same place, so I move forward and then backwards to where I had started. As I move forward the building changes, when I move back to where I started the building changes again, but it does not go back to where it started... I now have to hurry to catch up to the group. I pass other corridors that cross the corridor I am traveling down, and they seem to go forever as well. All the corridors are lined with doors, and through each door is a different reality... I can see out of windows of the corridor into large courtyards that are surrounded by building facades of three and four floors. The group is far ahead of me, so I have to catch up with them… Then the group turns left into a doorway. I follow them and find myself in a large room. There is another door opposite the one I have entered, leading to a second room, the group have gone into the second room. The first room I have entered looks like a room out of a Dutch painting from the middle of the 1600’s. I stop here and begin looking at the things in the room. The floor is paved with a checkerboard of large black and white tiles. The room is richly but austerely furnished with heavy wooden furniture. There is a big (dining?) table with chairs around it to one side with a brass chandelier hanging above it, and some wooden sideboards, cabinets, and chairs against the walls. In one corner is a globe with a map on it, sitting in a wooden stand. I look at it but can’t recognize any feature on it, it is not a map of earth… Nothing in the room is out of place, there is not a speck of dust on anything, nor is there a single mark, ding, or dent on anything. Everything in the room is spotless and in perfect condition. There is only one window which I walk over to and look out of onto a landscape of grassy rolling hills with some trees… On the wall next to the window is a big mirror in a frame. As I am looking at the mirror, I realize there is a drop of water on it. Somehow amidst all of the order and perfection in the room, the drop of water looks out of place, so that without thinking I reach out and wipe it off with my finger tip. When I do, the drop of water smears into the number 1662, which I assume means the year 1662. I then go into the second room where the group is loitering about.

The second room is totally different from the first room. Whereas the first room is formal, orderly, and spotlessly clean… the second room is rustic and disorderly. It is like an old stone hunting lodge, with a rough stone floor. There is a big stone fireplace in the far left corner, and a heavy wooden barred door to the outside opposite the door I enter through, and a window between the two. The furniture is rustic and utilitarian, and seemingly placed without order. There are boxes and objects randomly stacked on the furniture. This is the first time I have seen the group that I have been following up close. They are very passive, serious, and keep to themselves. But there are now two dog like beings or dog people with them, who have floppy ears and are covered with curly fur. Sometimes the “dog people” stand on four legs and are more dog like, sometimes they stand up on two legs and speak (telepathically) very eloquently like men of knowledge. It is obvious that the two dog people are my guides for whatever is going on here…

It is time for everyone to sleep, so we all lie down in a pile in front of the fireplace, on a big mat. The two furry dog people lie on top of everyone to act as a blanket. It is cold and there is a fire in the fireplace but it gives off no heat (physical sensation).

After a while we get up again, and one of the dog people draws my attention to a wooden chest sitting on a table in the middle of the room. The chest looks like a big wooden cigar humidor. He tells me to open the chest and look inside. I open it and inside are racks of metal bars that look like brass name plates, each with a name engraved on it. There seems to be every language of earth, plus symbols and glyphs that I could not recognize as being from earth. The dog person tells me that the racks fold up and out of the chest exposing more racks with more bars, which I fold up and out exposing more racks and bars, which fold up and out exposing more racks and bars, and so on. The inside of the chest is much larger than the outside of the chest. I am scanning the names on the bars as I unfold the racks out of the chest, when I see a bar with my name on it. I pick up the bar in my right hand and hold it, feeling it. It responds to my touch, I can feel it stir. The dog person tells me I can move objects around with the bar in my hand. I aim the bar at what looks like a coffee mug sitting on a table about 3 meters away, and move it sideways, then I move it to different places around the table. The dog person then says I can pick objects up with the bar, and move them from place to place. So then I start picking objects up and moving them from place to place around the room. I am like a kid with a new toy, playing with the bar and seeing what I can do with it… then I realize that it has suddenly gotten very dark out side, and there is a heavy sense of foreboding and evil. The group of people I had followed to the room, and the two dog people are now cowering in a group over by the fireplace, and fearfully staring at the door to the outside.. I glance at the heavy wooden door that leads to the outside, and see that the heavy bar that secures the door is slowly sliding open. I can sense that there is something very evil and deadly dangerous on the other side of the door trying to get into the room. Alarmed, I instantly aim the “name plate” in my hand, at the bar on the door, and push the bar to the door closed again, and hold it closed. I now find myself engaged in a contest of strength, with me holding the bar of the door closed, while some unknown evil on the outside is trying to force the bar to the door open. With great effort, I am managing to hold the bar of the door closed. But now I see that whatever it is outside trying to get in, is creating a second small “peep door” in the top of the door (the kind of small door that is used to peep through from the inside, to see who is outside knocking on the door). I can’t hold the bar to the door closed, and stop the little door from forming at the same time… and the bar from the chest with my name on it, that I am using to hold the door closed, is burning up and looks like it is about to be finished. I realize I don’t have enough power by myself to hold back whatever is on the other side of the door, I need help… I want to open the chest and put my left hand on the bars, but there is no time to do so. As the little door flies open, I slap my left hand on the wooden top of the chest, then as a horrific head with protruding teeth on a long neck comes lunging through the little door at me, I “shoot” it with the bar in my right hand blowing it’s head off… the head lay on the floor with about a meter of neck attached to it. Instantly the darkness and the pall of evil lifted. The group of people who were cowering over by the fireplace, leap up and rush to the door, unbolt it, then rush outside to look at the body. One of the group that I was following runs back inside and excitedly asks me if I want to see the body. I say “no, I don’t want to see the body, and would you please take the head outside, it shouldn't be left in here” He grabs the head by the neck and drags it outside… Then the group comes back inside, taking no further notice of me, and go out into the corridor, and depart down the corridor back the way they came...

I am now alone. Out the window I can see a large herd of large deer like animals with antlers, grazing in the near distance. They have instantly appeared after the death of the demon… The two “dog people” come back inside. The one who showed me the chest with the racks of bars, asks if I will do them a favor. They want me to catch and hold one of the deer like animals for them, and they will run out and get it. He is the dog man who showed me the chest with the bars, and how to use the bars, so that I was able kill the demon when it came. So I feel that I owe it to him to catch the deer for them. So I start looking for the bar with my name on it, but the dog man says, “Oh, you don’t need the bar anymore, you can use your hand”. So I test to see if I can move things with my hand, and I can… So I say that I am ready to catch a deer for them, and they excitedly run outside on in anticipation. I can catch a deer by pulling it down and holding it pinned to the ground. On my first try, I try to catch one deer but catch two. When I try to let one loose, both get loose and run off. On the second try I get two deer again, but this time I hold them both until the two dog men swiftly run out to them. Then I turn away from the window, and go back to the corridor, the way I came in... At this point I just wanted to get back to the physical world, and try to understand what had happened… So by wishing to go back to the physical world, I am instantly there.

When I was in the spirit world and all this was happening, my mind was empty, I didn’t think about anything. I didn’t think to ask my spirit guide, “where are we going ?”, and “what might we be late for, if we didn’t hurry ?”… but when I got back to the physical world, it seemed blatantly obvious to me that I was set up, that I was brought to this place in the spirit world for the sole purpose of “killing the demon”… everyone else seemed to know what was going on… but no one told me where I was going, or what I was expected to do … I was duped into killing the demon. Why was I brought to the spirit world to kill a demon ? Was I being “tested” ? Who was testing me ? Was the demon real ? Was I in danger of being killed by the demon ? Did I really kill the demon ? What or who was the demon ? Was the demon a part of me ? Was it a trick of my spirit guide ? Was it a projection created by the Devas ?… should I have caught the deer for the two dog people ?... Had the demon escaped from the demon realm, and somehow entered this heavenly realm, and was terrorizing areas of it ? When I arrived the whole landscape and village were deserted, all the people and animals were gone… but when I killed the demon, large herds of grazing animals suddenly appeared… but I didn’t return to the village again to see if people returned there… also when I killed the demon, everyone in the room who had been fearfully huddled by the fireplace, excitedly jumped up and rushed to the door opening it to see the body of the demon outside… and one of them rushed back in and excitedly asked me if I wanted to see the body… why would they be scared, then excited, unless I had really killed the demon.

And why was my name on a bar, in a wooden box filled with similar bars, in this room, in this building, in this heavenly realm ? This puzzles me the most.

I still don’t understand what was really happening.

Metta,

ha, yes , it came easily and fluently to you. Thankyou for answering, dawg. About the "I know I cant die"... what is it of you that does not die? Is it possible to say?

Hello Cat,

The reason I believe in reincarnation as a fact is because... I can remember the time I spent in my mother's womb, I was in samadhi the whole time, and I knew that I was "waiting to be born"... I knew that my "family" would "love" me... I knew my family was "financially secure", and that I would not suffer from "want"...As a baby in the womb, how could I know that I was "waiting to be born"... How could I know what "love", or "family" were... How could I know what "financial security", or "want" were... Unless I had lived before... I remember when my mother went into labor, and I knew that the time had come for me to be born... I remember squeezing through the birth canal, and coming out of my mother's body, into the bright light of the delivery room... When they cut my umbilical cord... The doctor holding me up by the feet and slapping me on my butt, to make me gasp for air and start breathing (first dukka... welcome to the hard cruel world)... I remember the doctor handing me to the nurse, who plopped me into a basin of water and gave me a sponge bath to clean me up (after being in the womb, the water seemed like ice water... second dukka)... Then they wrapped me up and put me in an incubator, because I was a premature baby... I remember then being taken into my mothers room to nurse for the first time, and as soon as I saw her I knew she was my mother... Then they put me in front of the big glass window of the hospital nursery, and "my family" came to "look at me"... I recognized my father when I saw him, and my older siblings, and knew they were my family... I have a continuous memory all the way back to the time in my mothers womb, where I had the consciousness of an adult male... And when I go to the spirit world, I "am" that same adult male... But I am not able to remember my past lives...

When I was born, I was like a man with amnesia, who could not remember his past... except that I had a new baby body, a new name, a new family, and had to learn everything all over again from scratch... And I hate to think how many countless times I must have been through this...

I hope this answers your question.

Metta

ah, well.. thankyou anyway for showing me something I wasnt looking for and am glad to have found.

 

Were you looking to find out about the spirit world, Dawg, or did it come and find you?

 

Ime nature wants to communicate and draws one in to do so, so to Mokona, I'd say be receptive and still and open hearted and all manner of forms will introduce themselves.

Hello Cat,

Thanks for your comment.

In answer to tour question, "Were you looking to find out about the spirit world, Dawg, or did it come and find you?"

I first started going to the spirit world in "Lucid Dreams"... I would start dreaming, and realize I was asleep and dreaming, and I would then ignore my dream and walk away out of my dream, and find myself in the spirit world...

Sometimes if I didn't want to go to the spirit world, and didn't like the dream, I would just lie down in my dream and go back to sleep...

When I started meditating at least six hours a day at the Buddhist monastery, I reached one pointed-ness... and then I spent days and weeks at a time when I could see and walk off into the spirit world whenever I closed my eyes, no matter where I was... I could close my eyes in a dentist waiting room, a busy super market, riding in a car, standing on a busy street, and be in the spirit world... at night I could get in the bed close my eyes and walk off in the spirit world.. in the morning I would open my eyes and be in the physical world, then close my eyes and be in the spirit world, then open my eyes and be in the physical world, then close my eyes and be in the spirit world, etc...

I am very grateful that I have seen so much of the spirit world and talked to spirits, because now to me, the spirit world is a very real and familiar place... Seeing it has removed all doubt from my mind, and given me a clarity of purpose that I didn't have before... I have no fear of death, because I know I can't die, even if I wanted to... And my only concern now is trying to reach enlightenment, or the highest heavenly realm that I can... I have also learned to love and appreciate our tacky old earth, warts and all, and to develop compassion for all my fellow earthlings (except mosquitoes, the ants in my kitchen, and cockroaches... I haven't managed that yet).

Metta,

According to teachings laid down by the Buddha, things do not unfold as cut and dried and straightforward as you have put forth here. Such views could lead to over-simplification and eventual stagnation, resulting in a deluded state of mind. Not saying here that you are... its obvious you have been taught well by your master, but sometimes we (as in anyone of us - no matter how realized we want to think we are) have a tendency to fixate on certain matters and then it could happen that these 'keys of realization', instead of opening the door to ever-wider emancipation, gets jammed in the keyhole of ignorance. In order to prevent this, its good to keep check of the unsurpassed teachings of the Buddha from time to time.

 

This particular sutta highlights what has been said above: http://www.vipassana.com/canon/majjhima/mn136.php

 

Hope it can shed some light on the discussion in general.

 

Sarva Mangalam!

Hello CowToa,

Thanks for the comment and the link,

Regarding the "quote" in your comment... I should have pointed out that I was talking about creating new karma, and karma in general... But that any old karma from this life or past lives that is still active, can pop up at any time... good point...

I will start putting a "disclaimer" on some of my comments.

Metta,

Hello Dawg. Before you realise there is nothing to gain from talking about the 'unknowable' through human language on TTB (or anywhere else ) I wanted to ask if it was ok if I PM you with a few simple questions. I understand/am in agreeance with everything you have said so far based on my own 'journey' and long proved experience so don't expect it would take up too much of your time/internet time through contention or things like that. Thanks, Paul.

Hello Paul Walter,

Thanks for your amusing comment.

If you want to PM me with a few simple questions, feel free to do so... If I can answer them, I will...

Metta,

Hi there dawg,, nice to see you, thankyou for coming in and sharing, what you say is great to read... I havent yet read your Knol, so will come back to it later, but wanted to greet you, and thankyou for your open - ness about your findings. It's really interesting. And I didnt know about your teacher,Thanissaro Bhikkhu,but I just looked him up, because the image you gave us from him of the "mind as fire unbound" expresses so beautifully and deeply, I'm really grateful to you for bringing it, and him, up.

 

 

 

Perfect! Thankyou. I found it online and will read it.

 

One of the reasons I am aware of for not sharing deep experiences is part of the art of the staying 'unlatched'.. so congrats to you for your clarity and sharing, combined with your unlatchedness.

 

Sounds great to be up there in the mountains. Yum !

 

_/\_

Hello Cat,

Thanks for the welcome, and your comment.

Thanissaro Bhikkhu is not my teacher, I just quickly googled Theravada Buddhism and found his description of nirvana, which I thought was excellent, so I posted it... But my teacher is just as good him...

metta,

Dawg,

 

Do you feel comfortable giving tips into percieving the spirit world? I would like some advice if your so inclined.

Hello Mokona,

You can ask me any questions you want to ask, and I will try to answer them if I can... no problem...

metta,

I see. Just reading that made me feel infinitesimally small lol. But I guess I have to get there for myself to see what it's like! I've often wondered however, does enlightenment really have to be sought out for or does it happen naturally after living and experiencing many, many lives?

Hello Observer,

Thanks for the comment.

In answer to your question... You will never reach enlightenment just by many lives.

Imagine that you wanted to walk to a certain place, but didn't know where it was... you would first need a "road map" or "directions" telling you how to get there... then you would have to exert the effort of walking there, one step at a time until you arrived at your destination... Getting the "road map" or "directions" is quick and easy... the hard part is exerting the effort to walk there step by step... Now imagine that when you start walking, you are walking uphill, but when you reach the top of the hill it is downhill for the rest of the journey... Enlightenment is the destination of your journey, the journey is your spiritual practice.

The first part of your journey that is all uphill, is trying to reach "one pointed-ness"... one pointed-ness is the top of the hill... one pointed-ness is call "little nirvana", because it is considered a taste of nirvana... one pointed-ness is a state where your mind is focused down to a single point of awareness, and nothing else exists... not even time... my first experience of one pointed-ness occurred when I was mediating at a Buddhist monastery... It was morning, and I had been meditating for 2 hours, and I looked at the clock and decided to meditate for another hour... I closed my eyes and started meditating again, but after two or three minutes there was a loud noise just outside my kuti (monk's hut) window... I opened my eyes and glanced out the window, and saw that the noise was caused by some workmen chopping up and hauling off some fallen branches... I glanced at the clock and was astounded when I realized that many hours had passes... at first I thought something was wrong with the clock, so i checked my watch but it agreed with the clock... Then I realized that everything I saw looked fresh and beautiful... and I was so energized that I thought I might not sleep for six weeks... and even though I had been sitting in a lotus position for hours without moving a muscle, I had no aches or pains, and my body felt really great... then I realized that my sense of hearing and smell were so sensitive that I could hear and smell every separate individual thing within 100 meters... this state of heightened awareness lasted about a week, before it started to wear off... I can't really explain what it did to my mind, but I can say that it totally changed my life... I began to spontaneously understand things that I had not understood before... I began to see, visit, and explore the spirit realms on a regular basis... I understood greed, anger, & fear; and they simply dropped away, never to return... I reached equanimity... I unified the yin and yang in my mind to create a unity with no conflicts between them... I am so peaceful and serene, that I marvel that I could have reached such a state... I estimate that I am 2/3 of the way to enlightenment... and I know that if I don't reach enlightenment in this lifetime, I will be reincarnated again no more than 6 times... and if I do well in this life, those reincarnations will probably be in high heavenly realms which are really amazing and wonderful places to be... So you can see that after you reach one-pointed-ness, your spiritual development accelerates as if something is pulling you forwards... this is why I say that this part of the spiritual journey is down hill...

The purpose of meditation is to develop and hold "concentration"... and to stop that little voice in your head that is constantly talking. Think of that little voice as your worse enemy. Think of it as the voice of the devil, of evil. It is that little voice that creates all of your problems... The first big goal of meditation is to stop that little voice and reach "one pointed-ness"... at this point you have gained control of your mind... now your goal is to "purify the mind", to get rid of all the accumulated garbage that is considered "defilements"... now you use meditation and concentration to investigate your mind to understand and rid your mind of conditioned negative emotions like anger, greed, fear... to develop equanimity... Then if you want to reach enlightenment you must rid your mind of all attachment to your body and personality, and see them as not a real part of your chitta (immortal spirit)... and understand that you have inhabited countless other bodies and minds/personalities, and that your immortal spirit is something beyond all that... and to see the body as a bundle of pain and suffering... So that when your body dies and drops away from your immortal spirit, you will not want another body... and be tempted to reincarnate.

Disclaimer... This post is a very simple and short answer to a very large and complex question... an adequate answer could fill volumes of books... But I hope it gives "the observer" more understanding of the process of reaching enlightenment.

Hey Dawg thanks for your replys :-)... which raises a few more questions lol. Ok so the earth spirits are bummed due to use human folk ravaging the earth,... how is it that we are so dominate anyhow? I take it they are powerless to stop us eh? As for the gods and godesses are they suffering greater mortality now that less people tend to believe in them and sacrific to them? Are we as humans doing a fairly good job of throwing our corner of the universe out of wack? :-S

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Hello Dmattwads,

Thanks for your comment.

You have a physical body, and you have a spirit body... the earth also has a physical body, and a spirit body... the "human realm" and the "animal realm" occupy the physical body of the earth... The "earth deva realm" (higher than the human realm and the lowest "heavenly realm", and the home of nature spirits) and the "ghost realm" occupy the spirit body of the earth... these four realms inter-penetrate and are superimposed on one another, and form one interactive unit... This is the world of shamanism.

Humans and animals can see and manipulate the physical world... earth devas and ghosts can see the physical world but cannot manipulate it... some ghosts like to hang around the human realm so they can suck vicarious pleasure from human emotions, some ghosts live in groups in "ghost villages" and even "ghost cities"... The earth devas have a higher level of spiritual development than humans, so they shun contact with humans, and inhabit places that are not inhabited by humans... The earth devas are on a higher spiritul level than humans, so they look down on humans in the same way that humans look down on animals...

Humans because they are physical, can destroy a part of the physical world... and as a consequence they destroy the spirit body of what they have physically destroyed... The ghosts don't seem to really care, they just want to reincarnate and be a human again... and the earth devas being spirit beings cannot effectively physically attack humans to stop them, especially considering the scale of the human assult on the physical world... even if the earth devas launched a spirit attack on humans and created problems for humans, humans would not even be aware that the problems were related to their destruction of the natural (physical) world... so the earth devas who just want to live in peace, retreat from and shun areas inhabited by humans.

Hi there Observer...

 

I have found this site very helpful whenever there was a need to get a better perspective on certain Buddhism-related topics > http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/index.html

 

I trust that you too will find it useful as a source of reference.

Hello CowTao,

Thanks for your comment.

The link you provided is describing Tibetan and Chinese Buddhism, and only mentions Theravada Buddhism superficially in passing, and in the context of Mahayana Buddhism... I practice Theravada Buddhism, so I have posted below a description written by a Theravada Monk of high attainment.

Metta,

Nibbana

Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Copyright 1996 Thanissaro Bhikkhu

For free distribution only. You may reprint this work for free distribution.

You may re-format and redistribute this work for use on computers and computer networks provided that you charge no fees for its distribution or use. Otherwise, all rights reserved.

We all know what happens when a fire goes out. The flames die down and the fire is gone for good. So when we first learn that the name for the goal of Buddhist practice, nibbana (nirvana), literally means the extinguishing of a fire, it's hard to imagine a deadlier image for a spiritual goal:utter annihilation. It turns out, though, that this reading of the concept is a mistake in translation, not so much of a word as of an image. What did an extinguished fire represent to the Indians of the Buddha's day? Anything but annihilation.

According to the ancient Brahmins, when a fire was extinguished it went into a state of latency. Rather than ceasing to exist, it became dormant and in that state -- unbound from any particular fuel -- it became diffused throughout the cosmos. When the Buddha used the image to explain nibbana to the Indian Brahmins of his day, he bypassed the question of whether an extinguished fire continues to exist or not, and focused instead on the impossibility of defining a fire that doesn't burn: thus his statement that the person who has gone totally "out" can't be described.

However, when teaching his own disciples, the Buddha used nibbana more as an image of freedom. Apparently, all Indians at the time saw burning fire as agitated, dependent, and trapped, both clinging and being stuck to its fuel as it burned. To ignite a fire, one had to "seize" it. When fire let go of its fuel, it was "freed," released from its agitation, dependence, and entrapment -- calm and unconfined. This is why Pali poetry repeatedly uses the image of extinguished fire as a metaphor for freedom. In fact, this metaphor is part of a pattern of fire imagery that involves two other related terms as well. Upadana, or clinging, also refers to the sustenance a fire takes from its fuel. Khandha means not only one of the five "heaps" (form, feeling, perception, thought processes, and consciousness) that define all conditioned experience, but also the trunk of a tree. Just as fire goes out when it stops clinging and taking sustenance from wood, so the mind is freed when it stops clinging to the khandhas.

Thus the image underlying nibbana is one of freedom. The Pali commentaries support this point by tracing the word nibbana to its verbal root, which means "unbinding." What kind of unbinding? The texts describe two levels. One is the unbinding in this lifetime, symbolized by a fire that has gone out but whose embers are still warm. This stands for the enlightened arahant, who is conscious of sights and sounds, sensitive to pleasure and pain, but freed from passion, aversion, and delusion. The second level of unbinding, symbolized by a fire so totally out that its embers have grown cold, is what the arahant experiences after this life. All input from the senses cools away and he/she is totally freed from even the subtlest stresses and limitations of existence in space and time. The Buddha insists that this level is indescribable, even in terms of existence or nonexistence, because words work only for things that have limits. All he really says about it -- apart from images and metaphors -- is that one can have foretastes of the experience in this lifetime, and that it's the ultimate happiness, something truly worth knowing.

So the next time you watch a fire going out, see it not as a case of annihilation, but as a lesson in how freedom is to be found in letting go.

Thanks for the reply Dawg!

So there is nothing above or beyond this state of nonduality? Or do we simply not know?

Hello Observer,

Some people say that we then start at the bottom of a higher ladder... and climb to a higher unity... but nobody really knows...

If you take the attitude that our consciousness evolved from the unity of a one celled creature floating in the sea, you could say that when we reach enlightenment and non-duality, we are a higher one celled creature floating in a higher sea... and that we will start evolving a higher awareness in a higher universe... But that is just speculation.

metta,

That is interesting. Ok this raises a question I have wondered about. When you read old accounts of the 'gods' you read a lot about animal sacrifice. Was there a real reason for this? Did this actually do anything for the gods? I did not realize that the gods were mortal, I assumed they were immortal.

Hello Dmattwads,

The Gods wanted human sacrifices (Aztec gods for example), or animal sacrifices (Greek or Roman gods for example)...

The reason the gods wanted these blood sacrifices was because the sacrifices sent them vital energy, that made them more powerful, and kept them alive in the god realm indefinitely...

metta

Fascinating topic.

 

What is it however that determines whether spirits see you as an authority? Is it your virtue, consistency, clarity of vision or something similar?

Hello Enishi,

If the intentions of your thoughts, words, and actions are good; you will attract good spirits... If the intentions of your thoughts, words, and actions are evil; you will attract evil spirits... even if you are unable to see them, they will be there...

And you have an ever present spirit guide (or guides) who can come to you instantly from any place in the spirit world, and protect you, if you call them... the more you are good, the more they will come to you and protect you... the more you are evil, the more they will ignore you and leave you to your fate (karma)... Christians call your spirit guide "your guardian angel...

Authority is used by shamans with powers, to control the dangerous spirits that they are dealing with, and ordering about...

Metta,

Some people are in touch with the spirit world and some are not. They will never see eye to eye, because their eyes don't work the same way.

 

In shamanic cultures, people who were in touch with the spirit world could prove they were, and the ones with the strongest ties to the spirit world became shamans. How did they prove it? By servicing the community on a daily basis -- with a little help from their spirit friends. The members of the tribe relied on the shaman for healing, weather modifications, hunting success, finding lost or stolen items -- and once the shaman's credibility was established (it's impossible to fool all people all of the time if you live a common shared life with them and interact with them for years and decades on end), bigger problems could be addressed -- e.g. major visions that dictated a migration and resettling, whether somewhere nearby, somewhere far, or even transcontinental, or in extreme cases, trans-dimensional.

 

If the shaman could deliver when presented with smaller tasks, the tasks might keep growing. If the tasks kept growing, the shaman's power kept growing. Spirits are attracted to strong authority figures, just like most ordinary folks. I've heard from a shaman that the prerequisite for successfully interacting with spirits is authority -- the same root as in "author," creator. If you approach the spirit world with no clear idea as to what you are going to do there and what for, the spirits are pretty much guaranteed to ignore you. If you approach the spirit world with the agenda of proving it doesn't exist, they won't bend over backwards for you to prove they do... just like YOU (any generic "you") won't bend over backwards for ME (any generic "me") to prove me wrong if I were to announce that you are merely a computer virus. You're just not that invested into arguing against a belief that doesn't affect your livelihood in any shape or form whatsoever.

Hello Taomeow,

Thanks for your comment,

Almost anyone can see the spirit world and communicate with spirits, if they are serious about meditation, and can reach "one pointedness"... That is no big deal... At that point there are many paths that a person can follow, depending on their goal...

Some who meditate seek powers... but my belief if that "powers" are seductive and give you a high, and as such they are like an addictive drug... I also think that if a person is actively practicing trying to attain powers, that they have already been seduced by those powers... and even if they achieve those powers, they are no closer to enlightenment... and my goal is to reach enlightenment, or get as far along the path as I can... If I reach enlightenment, powers would come as a byproduct and I would be beyond seduction.

The universe is a very big place full of all kinds of beings, who came from the spirit world when they were born, and return to the spirit world when they die, just like us... Some spirits are benevolent and some are predators (such as energy vampires)... I only trust a spirit that I can see, and can hear their tone of voice, because then it is impossible for them to deceive me... I trust beings in the heavenly realms, except the earth devas (nymphs, satyrs, nagas, earth spirits), because they are bummed out by the human race (that they share earth with) and can be very tricky... But it is impossible for my spirit guide and the beings in the other heavenly realms to lie to me (their high attainment level prevents it, they must speak the truth)... I have experienced automatic writing, but don't trust it (and shun it) because I don't know what kind of spirit I am dealing with... I don't trust shamans because they have chosen "powers" instead of "enlightenment", and they can be very tricky (suck you in, then lie to you), and because I don't know what spirits (usually earth spirits which I don't trust) that they are involved with... Although a real shaman has powers to manipulate the physical world, for good or evil.

"I also don't trust the person who says that they want to "save the world"... that is the biggest "ego trip" and "power trip" a person can have (a cosmic sized delusion)... they should save themselves first... then they would realize that the world doesn't need saving, and that what other people do is none of their business anyway... and that you can't save people who don't want to be saved... and that the only way to save people is by setting a good example, so that others can save themselves..

My dharma teacher (a Buddhist monk) tells me not to spend too much time in the spirit world... that the spirit world is for "spiritual tourism", that it is a side show that in no way advances my practice... So my interaction with spirits is not an important part of my practice... It is just something that happens, when it happens... I don't pursue it in any way.

Although my path is Theravada Buddhism, I have been reading threads in The Tao Bums Forum because the posts and comments are made by people on a spiritual journey (like myself)... I am learning about Taoism by reading what you write, and following links... I started this topic to share my experiences with you, in return for you sharing your experiences with me... When you read what I write, bear in mind that I am speaking from the point of view of Theravada Buddhism, not Taoism... It seems to me that the biggest difference between the Theravada and Taoism is that in Theravada, there is only one path with one goal which is enlightenment... And in Theravada meditation, the physical body is considered loathsome and disgusting, so that when you die, you will not want another body and be tempted to reincarnate...

Metta,