Rocky Lionmouth

This struck a chord with me, thanks! I didnt read CT until after a decade of periodically studying the TTC and to me the two clashed a lot, but later on levelled out. This thread is giving me a lot of new takes on the two together and i'm liking this Dialogues rendition MH! Lao Tzu doesnt feel real no but he's bending himself out of shape even trying to explain what he sees, never mind that people have been misquoting him for thousands of years with the "but Daddy said...", and i think that if he was real he really was torn between not wanting to put the words down and seeing the necessity of answering the questions, out of respect to the asker. But i romanticize a lot so thats just me. Here follows a personal reflection, never mind. I think the recipient is the same person still, but as has been said, they approach the issue differently. Lao Tzu spoke to the king yes, but i'm still sure he was also making fun of peoples lack of ability in getting over oneself. But if you're a true person or walk the path true you're more of a king or a queen than royals. And actually so is everyone else, only being more irresponsible in their rule, thinking there is reason and coherence to be found in the ways of existance. His irony comes from his "detachment" (for lack of a better word). So he speaks to those who rule, to those of us who claim to be rulers and those of us who think we are above thinking of ourselves as kings and queens. He has the patience of a parent and laughs behind his moustasche because he cant help it, we appear as well meaning but silly, but we listen and he's giving us huuuuge amounts of face by calling us rulers and if we really listen this humbles us and we allow him to poke a little fun at us. Chuang Tzu tries to level with us, speak clarly, he's the older sibling, he knows the arrogance of kings already and it vexes him, but still he tries and we appreciate his effort. He gives us face and respect in an intimate context. He's not impressed nor does he wish to be. We asked a question and he wants to answer, be too cannot resist the temptation of jest, but his jest is more frustrated because he still feels a little powerless in the face of injustice. It's just part of his nature. But they still speak to us younger family members, the would be and factual emperors of existance. Thats how i feel. I dont get even half and half the time i feel like i'm eavesdropping on a conversation when i read any of them. I'm there and being given huge amounts of respect for showing up and i deserve nothing of it and i cant begin to grasp. "It's okay, no rush" i tell myself, but have a hard time listening to that advice.

+1 to that because it's still nowhere near completion according to my ever so humble prophecy. Also, in the wakes oft his thread a lot of new topics seem to have done a better service to those seeking information and answers, i think this one cleared some blockages so to speak.

Kidney energy huh? Cool!

Anybody else feel different or a bit jacked up when the moon fills up? I have trouble sleeping on full moon nights.

Yin is no hat.

Wow, thats horrible, i cant even begin to anything.

Ok no problems, sorry if i overstepped.

Sorry, i dont follow, do you mean "suffering"? I'm suddenly not sure wether we were talking of wether you felt suffering or the cat or both, feel like i jumped to conclusions, its what i do, besides read situations poorly. If you had to act in order to lessen the cats suffering i'd be applauding you for doing what i'd feel would be nearly impossible to do. If you didnt i can relate. I saw one of my childhood cats get hit once, she survived for a few minutes but all i could do was pick her up and carry her home, i was so sad i functioned on basic reaction mode. I had nothing to help but try to soothe her, ending her suffering didnt even cross my mind because i was so caught in the emotion. I have a hard time accepting death face to face so i become passive and feel helpless, i think i might react similarly today if i wasnt prepared for it.

Why does the picture tell me i'm hoovering?

If potential boredom troubles you i suggest getting into an Art. A way to experiment and develop your skill, breathing, relaxation and self-knowledge, something to get lost in, something that grows and develops together with you, in all turns of life. I'd recommend that it should be something both physical and mental, that way you will have an outlet that recharges you also. The concept of Gong Fu is what i'm thinking of. Not necessarily martial arts, i mean Gong Fu as translated into something along the lines of "refined skill acquired through diligent work". Should you begin to master one area with that method, then later you can master any area using the same process of learning. It sounds very cliche, but its true You'll never be bored if you search for Gong Fu in yourself, and its a great way to implement and develop your connection to the Tao.

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Accidents are the worst man, sorry to hear about this for both you and the cat. Did it have a collar or ear-tattoo, could be helpful to inform it's keepers if you feel bad? Were you too upset to stop and check? Im pretty sure i'd be so i dont blame you if you didnt. I feel very Buddhist saying this but the suffering is also part of surrendering. All one can do is try if possible to express and share it so it can take its leave when you are done.

Happy new year! Remember others when you shoot firecrackers and rockets, you're also scaring my cats and many hibernating animals wake up and have troubles.

Wohoo! Twenty five pages of reading later, i have pssed through excitement, concentration, discomfort, doubt, cofusion, disgust, detachment, refocusing and now, nowhere near the end of this (i hereby predict a 139 page discussion before someone accidentally writes what Neidan actually is and the internet implodes), i keep wondering what on earth or in heaven you people are talking about. The line is a dot to me, and yet this thread is captivating on so many levels! But ah, now i know what the (para)phrase "those who do not know speak, and those who know wont say." truly means So many questions to ask but non of them formulated right, no question has the possibility of even being correctly phrased for an answer to make sense, except maybe "can i join your club?" to wich the answer is of course "No." Right now, Neidan has the appearance of highest degree Masonics or even the Bilderberg group. However, this was fun, you have 114 pages to go, i'll be cheering you guys on and drinks are on me afterwards!

VKHaus, it took me a few tries to read you correctly but then i got it, nicely put!

Nice reads, thanks Slim! It's kind of weird to see an author refer to his own earlier work as reference woven in with other sources in this academic fashion, i haven't gotten to reading much more than the intro of his Great Clarity book, but this article is nice and easy to read. Usually litterature concerning taoist practices and source texts tend to make me a restless reader really rapidly.

I dont believe in Karma as in the whole accumulation of a positive debt in the balance of existance and merit building, being a good person theough deed and thought and that'll grant you a better life and/or nextlife, being a bad person will end you up a worm or something. I also dont believe in social darwinism, closely related to Karma. Its a powerful tool to maintain an advantage to those of a "lower" standing through a "higher" power that dishes out rewards and punishments. I firmly believe that the universe treats us as straw dogs and that there should be a karma is too deus ex machina for me, gives humanity and earth too much attention. But the fact that if you give energy you might eventually get some back is plausible, interacting with surroundings of both psychological, spiritual and physical nature. But i do believe that karma is a practical word today. And in cause, effect and and the notion that there are greater forces at work than the 1=1 thing, especially for people doing good things. Causality in life has random outfalls. Some people have illustrious fine good karma and life and people keep slugging them and suckerpunching them anyway, almost like irony. Lets not fall to the temptation that we can see all logical steps and development all the time, inwant to know and organize all the time, but i try to refrain, out of respect for Lao Tzu, Zhuang Zi and Socrates. Dont spend a life being good for karmas sake, its a waste of time. Goodness itself is a terrible and fickle mistress who is secretly in cahoots with badness, they're both out to crush you under their heels. Btw Immanuel Kant was the antichrist.

I know nothing of Liu I-Ming but he seems like a popular fellow judging from the wikipedia article (mostly read the section about his works and teachings), is he the guy Hos quote however resonates with me. No control is the chance to feel whatever is going on, and no restriction is a good way to accept and live according to ones nature. Hard to reach that emptyness though. I feel like a cliche but the whole "the dharma is not the dharma" and the namable Tao isnt the real one, could it be that all those artificial exercises give openings to study the unadulterated thing?

Indeed. Its a positive outlook, its saddening that the old knowledge is fading to give rise to a void who will then be filled with that knowledge again. It seems like a human energy waste, but then again, putting energy into rediscovering things is aways gainful. Perhaps the knowledge is going from heaven to earth and the bond has yet to be reformed in the new state of things. Obstructions are like libraries if you go slow enough. If i were Ting i would chase those three moochers out of my vinegar stash, they didnt even deign to use a spoon! Who painted it?

Lets discuss this one again, might as well update it and give it a twist. When you say Taoist, what do you mean?

Are we throwing gasoline on each others fires Taomeow? I think we're reading similar stories. Mine's called "As above commands, so below lives." The symbols are there, i've seen them. It's not even a question about the morals involved, wether this or that is satanic as so many conspiracists argue, its about the fact that as you say, people are held down by all means available. All means of education are controlled everywhere because maintaining power is priority 1 through 10, later we'll look at human progress and endeavor through the lens of "how much of that cake is in it for me." and it's allowed out, watered down, broken in its core and sold as a commodity. There are so many tai chi and yoga classes where an empty gift wrap is all they have. Why? What turned a tool for self cultivation into a commodity? Because people who are relaxed and know themselves even a little are more likely to walk away from an abusive situation. Why practice? So you can reduce your stress, change nothing in your life and be more productive. It's like "eat your vitamins". I remember Ken Cohen talking about why soldiers stand at attention with their knees locked and spines arched: you cant walk away like that. Its a position of unresistance. Should you stand the same but with your knees and pelvis relaxed it's a whole different story. You're going to be in a position to call BS on your superiors, your field of vision will be better. My god am i derailing this into a black hole...

Figures, i had to open my yap at superpowers and here come the cavalry making me go back on it No but really, if a power can be developed and used so that it helps the people and also helps you along the Way, then money is green and so are pastures and traffic lights. I will not stand in the way of furthering the welfare and prosperity of the community, especially those less fortunate than the average fortunate person, wether by special powers or not. Feed the poor, help your neighbour, stay the aliens invading us, everybody has their straw to add to the mound. I dont mean to discredit or ridicule, i get mildly crabby when great spiritual leaders and their claimed powers come in play because the world's still a meatgrinder to most and those with the obvious powers (spiritual, military or economical) are oblivious or need everybody to abide by a few conditions like "stop being gay", "stop being muslim", "stop being of a certain ethnicity". People are under the heel all the time and the pay for their patience is poop in their face and an agonizing slow death. Cant be right. Lets all get superpowers now and knock some sense in world leaders. Willpower ourselves to their breakfast tables and have a chat. Overcrowd them telepathically and say "if you dont feed and house and care for all your homeless immediately we're all going to take turns sining annoying songs in your head for weks". As you can all glimpse, i'd be a pretty awesome world leader, im ready for the coronation when you are. Ps. Dont give me superpowers, i couldnt handle them.

Even the bad guys with all their grandiose schemes and awesome outfits have sad, lonely lives and their plans constantly get messed up because of other people with superpowers.

I thought Taoist Mystical Practices (hereafter TMP for short) were supposed to help you gain the power to be fully united with the Tao in your own living days and thereby being able to enjoy happyness and a long fulfilling life without constraining your own nature? Happy side effects probably include an efficient economy of energy and a healthier more long-lasting body. No but honestly, besides making cool party-tricks, what would you want superpowers for? Look at all the stories about people with superpowers, their personal lives suck without exception. Their closest friends might not even be privy to these powers because it'd freak them out. And they end up having to make impossible choices with disastrous consequences and they most often dont get paid anything else than with scorn, alienation and resentment.