Rocky Lionmouth

I think he widespread definition of it equates it with death, or at least the spiritual and psychological "splodie head, nothing left" variety of it, instantaneous and immediate. Boom! Sounds pretty dangerous and permanent to me tbh, and im no big fan of permanence mind you. Are we talking "end station" or a deep insight about oneself? I've been fond of the idea that enlightenment is pretty much a realisation of the structure of ones mind, whats going on there with the perciever, the deciever, the informant and scientist, the bigot, the fool and all those weird and ill-quilted rags, or slightly defected legos if you will. It wont do much, one will just be fundamentally aware and ever so constantly reminded that what habitually thinks of itself as an entity or individual is playing a joke on itself while desperately trying to survive and function. Kinda like the old "chop wood, carry water" thing, you know? Just because one "got" it in a deeper sense it doesnt mean one stops pooping more or less regularly or being bored or having lousy days or catching head colds. Or does it? You tell me Getting a grip on things and putting the work in to slowly (key strategy for me, rushing always leads to Answers and quick fixes) just play the hand you have and at the same time unify the pieces to a whole wich has a center and a radius potentially spanning nigh on infinity, now thats a new horizon and the rest of a lifetime to enjoy getting frustrated over. Mastering oneself without controlling oneself and all that. Not saying i have, im still at a stage of becoming friends and i get reminded a lot and often about how ridiculus it all is. I meditate (often but not regularly), i mco, i kung fu qigong and tai chi because i need a structure to help my mind just forget and go, but its contrived and basically all fancy wrapping paper on something i keep re-gifting myself all the time. Probably im just spouting horsemanure to most, but if enlightenment happens, the light switch is turned on. You see where it was dark. Nothing says it stays on permanently, being of a more taoist view i think its all a game of balance, gaining enlightenment and losing it again and on and on until the pendulums movements get less and less wide. I think it was Oshos book on the TTC that got me in on this in the first place.

I thought Xuan Tian Sheng Di (Emperor of the northern/dark/mysterious heavens) aka Xuan Wu aka Pak Tai was one of the Winds (south is Pheonix, west is White Tiger, and east is the blue/azure Dragon), northern wind/direction represented by the snake and tortoise, but maybe the dragons symbolize him also? The snake and tortoise were originally his intestines and stomach, wich he cut out and washed in a river to cleanse himself of all the filth and meat he had eaten. He had just passed Kuan Yins test of mercy and wanted to atone, the stunt killed him and he was raised to immortailty, but had to hunt down and subdue his guts and stomach who had by then turned to a snake demon and a tortoise demon. He kicked their asses basically and subdued them to serve him, also as a means of transportation. After that and then some he was promoted to No. 1 Heavenly General, he currently holds this position still. I've pieced this together so im probably not correct on the details everywhere but the legend is reported in its entire state in "Journey to the North" apparently, hard to find book, still digging. Black dragons are water and yin so related to Xuan Wu but maybe more under his dominion, but hey there seem to be different traditions for everything so why not this? Not discrediting anyone, just adding. I always felt close the snake and tortoise myself, even though i've always dug the southern styles and ideas and my pai is under Guan Gongs protection, he's top dog in our book. But im a viking of the north so it evens out.

I really like this idea, purifying the intention, its a bit like making a force clear in push hands or tao lu in kung fu. As a general guideline i think its doable, but a guy like me - who tends to become stupid and literal about every two months and following six to eight weeks - might end up in "if all you have is a hammer, all problems will look like nails to you"-land somewhere along the path. Just butting in two cents here

Marble, im not even done with standing around comfortably, you're mad lucky! Cap'n, i dont wanna be a taoist anymore, i wanna be a superhero.

I never even heard of people aquiring magical powers from taoist practices before i came on here, i found taoism as an attractive vision of humanity and the world when i was in my teens and grew up in a catholic context that never ever suited me. Now, about fifteen years later, i claim no supernatural powers and however cool it would be, it sounds like a nuisance and a further complication of life. I do practice qigong and taiji and kung fu because its a fun way to know myself and invest in the future of my body and mind. I consider qi not a supernatural thing but rather a refined skill. Same with sensing it, improving it and using it in a more focused way. I always thought immortality and magic and such were metaphorical and allegorical in the texts, even humoristic at times, ways to describe something by not pointing at it directly. I have had some weird and epic visions and experiences during meditation and in the land between sleeping and waking, but a zen-man once andvised me to not listen more to the flashy stuff screaming once in a while than heeding to the grey everyday whispers, it kinda stuck.

Mco is a favourite of mine, i do it whenever i can and feel like it. Here i was thinking there was one place to put it, aka the wind position according to the above illustrations, wich is where my tounge ends up most of the time since i first heard about it. I've tried not keeping it there during practices, and still felt the two points connect, a little less perhaps. So now theres at least three new ones to try, thanks for sharing this!

I gots a bunch of books to recommend at least: Liaozhai Zhiyi or "Stories from a Chinese Studio" is a pretty awesome collection of "weird tales" from around 1700 or thereabouts, there are a few about old monks, exorcists and fox spirits. Theres one legend about a Shaolin monk who was weak and his kung fu was so bad that other monks poked fun at him when he practiced. No matter how hard he worked his development was terribly slow. One day, in frustration and anger, he threw himself at one of the Vajrapani (manifestation of Buddhas strong power, weilder of the lightning bolt, patron spirit and defender of Shaolin) statues guarding the halls and prayed for divine aid. That same night Vajrapani came to him in his dreams and offered him a bowl of raw meat and tendons and when the monk refused Vajrapani manhandled him and force-fed him the forbidden food, laughing. The next day he felt strong and powerful and when he other monks came to make fun of his kung fu he started running around the room and proceeded to run on the walls next. All the monks were of course awed and terrified at this and the monk later on became known for his martial skill and his strong body. Im not telling it right but its reported in a book by a prof. Shahar about the history of Shaolin. Interesting book and quite a few references of old Shaolin stories about the monks, Vajrapani defending the temple against bandits. Also, check out Bandits of the Marsh or The Water Margin, epic tale of hero-bandits based on some historical records from around the 12th century in China also, authorship is unclear but most theories puts its creation during the Ming Dynasty. Also: Journey To The West, its kinda longa nd repetitive but its about the Monkey King, most of it is pretty cool!

Im too lazy to go find a new barber to cut my hair after some kind of misunderstanding between me and my old barber so headgear is everyday right now, to keep that flimsy wimsy crap out me eyes. Usually its neat and classic with a touch of 50-s, no hair haing over my face, but now i look like an 80s action manga character with bedhead.

Not a single clue what that means, but it looks insightful in its geometry. Sadly the Tibetan stuff just never found my soil fertile, go figure!

I think it must be the hat, a taoist priest full regalia robe outdresses any fancy wizard or egyptian sorcerer any time. Might be the guy, but my money is on the hat. I think i can relate to the Mikado-fiasco a little bit: Saw a chan monk in my hood a few years back, european guy, in his "casual" robage and pilot shades. I almost stumbled on some overground roots looking around for cameras and film crew. I guess no one told him they werent shooting that day... Now clergy-wise, catholic non-monastic padres have this weird thing with high edges and a pompom (EDIT: a "biretta") that is sheer genious. And thats saying something, i mean catholic priesthood has some wicked hat game going on. Pope has a triple crowned mitre (!) and monsignores rock a crossover between a sheperds straw hat and a fancy bowler.

Genious, i've been wondering wich one should go over wich, thanks! Oh, yes. There's an incredible array of headwear in chinese history and they go for the vacuum-bag style. What happened to the boxy looking little things? The Guan Gong style headwrap? Nono, vacuum-bags all around! Tibetan lama hats at least go full circle, pimpalicious!

Tin Foil Taoism, does that refer to the exquisite top knot cover i made this morning to keep the confucians out?

I've been thinking a lot over these past few years about how easy it is to say bad is bad and i dont want that, pertaining to for instance behaviour and thought patterns, lazyness, dark aspects of my psychology such as depressions and becoming absorbed in gloomy ideas about life and the world. Early on i got stuck in the idea of saintly behaviour, suppressing aspects of oneself and censoring negative emotions and experiences, wich of course turns out is a very unhealthy way of positioning oneself in relationship to oneself and others. I was yanging it basically, thinking i was cultivating a balance between light and darkness - what a stupid thing right? Forceful violence made upon myself by me. Nowadays i entertain a broader idea of wholeness, oneness even, slowly coming to accept my negative sides and others negative sides as something good, enjoyable even. Getting angry, harboring darkness and negative thinking, as long as i dont hold on to it, as it is fleeting, empty, not something to judge but to observe and accept as a small part of a complex whole. Basicallly percieving my weaknesses and flaws as useful things, information about now, a counterbalance to all the "good" shit i seem to do. Im not being my best or worst me but just me. But how to reconcile this with all the practices explained as things to do to "better oneself"? Reading and listening to some people that share my interests i hear so much that falls into the category of stiffly holding on to both goodness and happyness like its the truth about life and the deepest of mysteries, while a lot of it ends up as repression of fantastically useful parts of us. What happened to the balance? Whats with the happy pill panacea? I love me a boring day being grumpy, it passes and the day before or after will be different. Expecting eternal bliss to be a constant state of mind doesnt mean you'll be smiling 24/7, not to me. Follow the tao and balance ensues. Follow good and bad and negativity are going to be screaming so hard for attention not because they are distractions (not more than goodness at least) but because one is neglecting aspects of oneself and denying them space they cannot vacate, a space no one has any valid business to edit or censor. Im not talking about meditation here, im talking about daily life and following the Tao in every breath, because all else is violent madness. These are all parts of my nature, the nature of everything. Resistance is futile, embracing the muck with the gold seems like the only viable option. Emotions are empty, thoughts are empty, i am empty, but this does not mean life does not affect me on some levels. All things are impermanent and everything is ever changing, ever churning motion, ever grinding towards entropy and yet continuing. What are your thoughts on this and the "negative"?

+1, total keeper! Deci, ever so kindly i thank you, i forget noticing the delusions and external is positive, that part is so easy to forget! Yay! "Take care, step by step, slowly to follow the way, never mind and you can relax" my grandmaster said a few months ago. Also a keeper. Yes, the having the judgements is the problem and regaling them the reins of the whole cart is no way to live, not even surviving. The tricky part is when emotions come in and strenghten a judgement, being essentially arising and recessing and like thoughts come from nowhere. Thats where its easy to get overpowered by strenght in numbers, a clear clue to knowing my mind is yet fragmented. On a good day i know that what thoughts and emotions are adding information about me and life, leaving the useless as is - is easier. Happy i can add to the sum on here, or detract, you know About the honesty i just feel there are situations enough everyday that entice me to rein in and not share, not speak about what seems important and how i feel about it. If people dont pick up on it i drop it, but its always worth trying for a "real" subject and be "real" about it (absolute terms used for illustrative purposes). Its frustrating how many people spend so much energy on speaking halfway, speaking not about their experiences and hiccups. Tears are good imo wish i could shed them more but alas i was raised in the old school, but the needyness seem sad. Maybe its society and the stress, or is it a polarisation that calls for each student to accquire a mental and spiritual swiss army knife? Youre a Grandmaster, at first glance without knowing to well your situation it sounds like a good indicator that they come to you. Well spoken about maintaining the practice, also a keeper!

Mmm, Taomeow is most def a source of good stuff, very interesting! Id like to suggest the following questions: Whats your current routine or focus in practicing, if you dont mind? What annoys you the most about Taoism? What was the hardest part to get, or most crucial threshold for you as a beginner? What is the hard part of continuing and advancing in your practices?

Mmm my kind of homework! Nice!

I know right, felt kinda good to put it down like that It seems funny because the allegory or model still might stand in group dynamics as well as in a line of succession. I've got to broaden and deepen this ananlysis, thanks for reminding me

Nice nurturing description Crane! History always was in the hands of the conquerors, or at least those who had wit to spread the right propaganda. As i've understood it the five ministers need to be strong in themselves to not get bullied by their once removed colleague and raise their subordinate strong and well behaved. Being too stern will also stifle a subordinate and in the long run do them harm and leave them weakened, incapable of leading their own subordinate. The right amount of nurturing leadership, control and independence (to ward off rebellious behaviour) keeps the whole kingdom happy.

Its there, just outside the corner of your eye, behind the hissing tinnitus and the feeling of the bloods rythm in whatever bodypart is currently resonating it. Outside of our field of perception in the literal sense. It cannot be seen, cannot be heard, cannot be named and so on... Ever mocking. Maybe its where the Hum comes from?

Ok this is ot and i know it but i thought it could be interesting as a tangent to the discussion here. Have you guys seen SlowFlo and the other weirdness floating around the web? There's like a whole subgenre of litterature that describes a christian seekers fall and redemption. Main issue: martial arts and qigong wich are of course, Satanic Practices (duh!) that lead to possession and adolation of Satan in the shape of Nature. Sorry for derail but some of it is prime time entertainment.

To me it would be, but never say never, some people might consider it a minor feat or even fundamental

I was always under the impression that taoism left room for incorporating whatever suits and is practical to the taoist. I was a taoist long before i left catholicism and while having abandoned what is imo an endless and forcibly sad funeral of a pretty sharp and spiritually connected person where two other pretty hateful dudes have hogged the microphone for ever (Paul and Peter), theres nothing to say beyond doubt that "this guy has no place withint his context and never should he have it". Is it traditional? Nope. Is it advisable on a broad level? Maybe not but thats so far beside the point it doesnt even matter, the personal context is fundamental and absolute in matters of faith and choosing how to express it. If you can happily do Big J and the Supreme Ultimate together good on you! More really is more sometimes. A fung shui master i know says "no mixing of deities on the altar" because its disrespectful to all the deities present, i buy that, to each their own and give to God whats Gods and Guan Gong whats his. But climbing high horses isnt a good way to gain knowledge or your peers ear, at least not among taoists. There is always a valid point about the industry of selling teachings promising, but everybody has got to eat and no one forced anyone to buy something. If the material is dissapointing take it up with the author, ask for your money back or whatever. If a certain practice didnt give you superpowers maybe a wider angle of perspective is needed? Ps. If a practice unexpectedly DID give you superpowers, would you please share and make it short and extremely simplified?

I dont get that a lot but i get it from people who are close to me lately, nice! I was thinking along similar lines, there's some outside stuff seeping in, and i guess my reaction is one of allergy, guess i have a tendency to internalize and figure the problem is mine, but then again i was raised catholic... I do appreciate the implication of being a cat, i get that a lot and being an admirer and friend of felines in general i take it as a compliment, and the analogy applies, the being and operational mindset is valid and to me desirable in some ways, but then im not a cat so the needs and formulations will differ of course. I need to ponder the confusions, its always a good thing checking the barometer once in a while, but its also important to recognize confusion as a passing thing and resolve it pragmatically along the way. Less effort, less energy wasted and whatnot. Agreed, conflict is important and unavoidable, smoothness in conflict and resolution is one of my goals, appropriate applying of energy to resolve and move on. My relationship to what is contrived as negative is becoming more useful to me, im conflicted and its helpful at this point. Not many judge me negatively and when they discover im a person capable of pettyness and anger they act surprised the weirdos, but mostly im alone with external judgements in my head. I keep collecting them lfor some stupid reason it seems, work in progress and all that.

Agreed, i still consider harmony a balancing act, balance tends to sound static or permanent when anyone who has balanced an umbrella or a spear on their chin knows it is far from a static exercise I like the utility thing myself, flexible and still clear in its purpose and as you say it doesnt assign value for others.

And here i rewrote it a bit to clarify, making everything even less coherent, sorry Exactly what i was thinking also, good or bad are maybe not useless but irrelevant at most stages. I want o drive the point further but i guess im loosing steam now, but the main topic i wanted to talk about was the daily life, the pitfalls of passing judgement on oneself and assigning values and qualities, all that stuff people do to themselves all the time. For instance: Someone very wise to relationships once told me relationships (broad sense, not just life partners) are 65% unsolvable conflicts, those conflicts are thresholds and springboards, at least to me, because i view them as the game of yin and yang, the cycle of elements. But this also causes trouble, because sometimes its not good to apply those ideas to something, applying an abstract model that has perhaps some relevance but also very much makes the situation or phase of the relationship into something it isnt. Thats something i struggle with, just because it can be applied it doesnt mean its analogue. If i had to sum it up further id say im taking the long way to advocate formlessness in mind, guess im looking for acknowledgement, maybe just making a fuss while stating the obvious