Rocky Lionmouth

I’d like to offer the following in relation to a yin yang relationship between thinking and feeling: I think feelings have a very Yang way about coming into my world of perceptions, they arise out of nothing and can be very dominant and loud while soon reaching a zenith and receding and dissipating. Thinking on the other hand, for me at least, arises very Yin-like. Input is sorted (messy and loud incoming) and thoughts start to follow, they recieve the input and filter it and start to adapt to contain sensory and theoretical knowledge. They then solidify gradually (slower than emotions) and reach their depth of scrutiny whereby an yang response of emotive characteristic urges upon me an action or position to take. I know the categorization pitfall, i’m not saying they’re one or the other, but when i manage to observe their process and interplay the rationality is yielding, inviting and collecting inwards while emotivity moves in an more expressive, judging way, feelings have a tendency to be dominant even when they are mixed. And they follow one another, as for their nascent order i thinks a bit of the old ”hen/egg came first sitch” but receptivity comes first as far as senosry input goes for me. Xin is a beautiful concept, i had a major bump from the descriptions in this thread guys, thank you. Would anyone dare elaborate further implications of the meaning of ”open your heart”? Being happy is definetly accurate, but i believe this also relates to an intent, yi right? Would you say yi is of the xin somehow? Whats the common theory say in classical daoist teachings about the relation between xin and yi?

Indeed Bindi, the first and second paragraph is much how i view it as well. As for which what is which i was merely pointing out that both Water and Fire are referred to as specific ingredients very often in the texts, i have a w.i.p. idea of what those two are, even if they arent always the same exactly. I think Heaven and Earth are less specific but much more inclusive once they’re achieved and worked with, but i speculate. I do believe Water and Fire to be descriptions of two states or ”places” and a certain statements regarding a mechanism. But this i glean only from trying to observe the two trigrams as illustrations for these things in a person, i might be off course for not interpreting from a perspective of the bigrams first. We all know the single line principles, the bigrammatic line combos are so vast and abstract but yet clarify something about the principles and how they move. Questions abound: do the lines stack from bottom up or vice versa? I think Form and Li (this was discussed in a few months ago but i forgot to jot it down, i’m probably messing the terminology up) might shed light here but who knows really? Bottom-Upwards is one thing, one process, while Top-Downward is a whole different pair of pants. I know it holds true for building houses and studying kung fu, both directions being working with different methods, goals and results (not always the desired or expected ones) and i do believe the trigrams can represent a human being in a way, but what exactly does this say about Water and Fire in the alchemical context? We know from Liu YiMings writings among others that symbols only serve for us to grasp the message, to forget them once we have understood what they mean for their appearance is only one of convenience, and they don’t even do that good of a job illustrating whats being talked about. So, which is what and what are they? I have an inkling, had many actually but the latest one has been a pretty solid working material for a few years now, i wont go into details because it’d be tantamount to teaching and Heaven forbid i do that until i get it right, and even then would it be advisable to propagate it? Idk, but probably it spells more trouble than i’d like having, got just enough as it is already

HAAA i had forgotten this! Classic Marbs indeed! I was torn wether to put a LOLface response or a tearful one but the laugh outshone the grief, which he’d shurely be both surley and teasy about. Thanks for the reminder Kyoji, i needed that!

It is a pretty clear explanation, alas it does not state how to do it a d what is which.

Reverse breathing in meditation is fine, just remember not to force or push. As soon as something other than your belly moves because of your technique then you’re forcing. Do bear in mind that whatever you practice will change over time as you gain experience and continuity. But before you can even say you’ve given this stuff a try go at it for a few years. Celibacy is great because it ups your frustration, gets you mad and irritable which makes concentrating and releasing and all that harder. But it’s not for everyone and unless you accept whatever it brings then don’t do it. Regarding feeling ”nothing”: thats ok, just feel that nothing, what if you were feeling pain instead?

Help with what? Thats a destination to name. You’re not supposed to feel something, you’re supposed to feel. See what comes from there. Warmth, tingling and all that stuff is just initial stuff, never mind that. Just do your thing and keep at it. Never force and always figure out how to ground. If you develop a LDT you can circulate and research all you want, just ground it and let it rest where it’s supposed to. If you want a destination to go to, get a teacher. You can go at the basics alone and you will make mistakes and you will discover things, with pr without a teacher,

Abdominal breathing is ”regular” in cases of meditation and qigong, imo. The thing with what you describe is that it takes a long time and neither vegetarianism or celibacy has any guarantees as far as developing something along the lines of what you’re hoping for. The only thing to do is to keep the work up and let it build over time. You won’t feel the actual qi, forget about that. Just keep doing your exercises and don’t focus too hard on your Dan Ti, let awareness rest there, do some light exercise, stretching and qigong also, that should move things along a little over the coming six months.

Word, that makes plentiful sense. As far as i’ve understood emotion and connection are huge factors in daoist healing and buddhist healing also. Very cool that you managed to create the space in the lady to heal the boy, her love and compassion for him is a great source vis a vis their connection, you’ve obviously got some mad chops to understand these things, lucky for the boy!

I think you’re right, you were panicking, needed a solution and the idea came and you tried it unimpeded by such things as usually get sorted out of possibility when your judging mind has the time to put their opinion in, sounds like it belongs in the ”wei wu wei” category of things. SoD, i don’t know why you’re tearing up on what i said but i assure you no malice or ill was intended. We good?

Mani, thanks for that, brilliant horse technique.

Reception inside the blue cupboard is very poor.

Seem to be the general rule with enough exceptions to confirm it right?

I love you Tin Hat Cat.

Whats wrong with apples and/or pears? Aren’t they more similar than not? If you cut them, do they not separate just like eachother? No. They are indivisible in their pearshapedness.

There are Daoist Sleep Skills i’ve been told about in private, i’ve been working on the basic prerequisites for a few years now (progress is slow even for a diligent student and i have trouble maintainingconsistency of effort) and i know some of them are related to maintaining full awareness during sleep (which i think is not lucid dreaming) and to use it to contemplate and develop thoughts and ideas. It’s been hinted at that dreaming matters and is important also, perhaps for divination purposes or cultivation of a certain state or energy but these are only my own speculations. I don’t think awareness and dreams are to be intermingled however. It seems as tough the methods are highly organized and strict but that it’s very esoteric in that the student can be given clues and indirect pointers to study, but must pass the first ”gate” on their own, i think the right frame of mind and ”location” to reach first isn’t something you can teach by explaining. Describe the direction and outline the spot where the student is supposed to show up, if they cant get there pursuing it further isn’t even possible. Not a test, just a ”either you got it or you don’t” sort of thing... again, i speculate, dont heed this if you have instructions that speak against my words.

Feeling confident or not is unrelated to wether or not it is justified or rational to feel a certain way or another. If you believe something then you do, this belief might change over time and it will deepen and balance in relation to your world perception, especially if you are a smart person. Allow your beliefs to be tested, question them and explore, find out and develop. Argumentation for or against something is just another way to do that. If someone whom you think is smarter than you and seems more knowledgeable has input you find valuable or horrible on your beliefs you can allow this to become part of your testing and evaluating sure, but there’s no way they’re proving you wrong or dismantling your belief. You could basically ask the exact opposite of your question also and it would still be valid. Argumentational logic, rethoric, pathos and ethos, credibility and so on are strategies and tactics used in interpersonal situations. But they don’t really affect an individual unless that individual allows and even willingly implements it. Subconsciously, consciously or not. It’s a pretty huge gift to someone to allow them to dictate what happens inside you and how that should be done. Dont give it frivolously.

Hard Qi Gong isn’t just for martial artists though, just running a low intensity version of those exercises with the gradual building up will yield results physically, energetically and on a mental and spiritual level as well, if done right with someone who has trained successfully in internal work too. But yes, tendon and connective tissue work is an absolute prerequisite or else it will only be destructive. Yi Jin Jing or Luohan Gong (i do believe their goal is the same) will also give good results on body, blood, jing and qi, which in itself gives a certain degreeof clarity of spirit and mind. Lots of people disregard these exercises as they’re often treated as lowly ji ben gong or beginners stuff... many legit non-standardized or diluted martial arts have them and even though it’s freely and casually taught to newbies it’s like hiding gems in plain sight, those exercises are way deep and beneficial. They do wonders for the blood and help transport waste away by means of lymph circulation as well.

There’s a practice i sorta know that is jokingly called bone massage, it helps strenghten the bones and sets marrow to work which in turn yields fresh and healthy blood iirc. Only way i’ve encountered it is through what is commonly mistaken as ”conditioning” exercises such as iron palm, iron arm, iron shirt, iron body etc. It hurts pretty much at first but after some time there’s a shift or transformation in the tissues subjected to the process. Of course its not just ”massage”, there’s also loosening exercises, dit da jow (depending on school and teacher), rest, eating and of course real, regular massage. Iron Rings Kung Fu training (a set of iron rings worn around the wrists) and ”body tapping/slapping” are also related to this or can yield similar effect. I don’t recommend (at all) doing this unless you have a teacher to show you and monitor your initial progress, doing it right is easy when you’ve figured it out but the figuring out takes time and costs pain and swelling and has a high risk of injury. Consider yourself warned.

What? I don’t think @Taoist Texts is that hard to get, usually writes quite clearly.

I think we could round up a few Bums more and see how far that would get us... Lets not forget that it’ll take quite some time and lets also remember to hire someone who isn’t going by the cheapest rate, i think translation from classical chinese is one of those ”you get what you pay for”-things. I’d jump on that.

Working class dialect is not born out of laziness, thats just not very owlducated or intowligent as a statement.

I like me a Red Panda no matter what. The other important stuff has already been said.

Sounds pretty ugly to be honest, bit of a macho group behavior if it’s either shut up or put down. I recognize the behavior though, seems that sort of stuff happens everywhere and as per usual those that scream the loudest gain attention and so there’s a positive feedback loop for them. Also there is a strong collective bond in always agreeing and i guess a superficial acknowledgement and false security? Lets not forget the promising allure and the treacherous fragility of Easy, Clear Answers About What Is Right, people seem to love those even if they end up diggin holes where they stand... Staying silent can be very frustrating also. If your group is one you intend to hold on to i’d advise being ahead of political reinforcement sessions and instead open up discussions wider by starting them. See what happens, you’d not be speaking against, you’d be inviting them to join and debate. It takes time for people to change but with perseverance they’ll trust eachother soon enough. Right now they identify with their opinions and reasoning, thats a tough one to break out of. Try it and practice shutting those discussions out and doing a breathing exercise or something inward when they start echoing. But do not be afraid to speak up if they often pile on to someone, especially if it ends up being the same people time after time, or perhaps lead by example? Idk if it helps but there’s a lot of advice you didn’t ask for, sorry mate

For me a political take with springboard in Daoist thought and ethic results as a utalitarian one, often with a strong leaning toward liberty oriented socialism or (a socially conscious and respectfully organized form of) anarchism: frugality in resource use, fairness and charitable orientation towards the people, the leading should be humble, disinterested and with the sustainability of a simple and fulfilling life where norms consist of openness, healthy skepticism, contributing and enjoying a freedom to organize collectively and individually as is fitting the situation. Equality, human rights, freedom from persecution and freedom of thought and speech are pretty big for me, as well as public benefit such as schools, infrastructure, healthcare and respect. ZZ and DDJ advise wisely on political matters, leading and abstract doctrine i think. I seldom discuss politics even if (and because of) my strong feelings for it. I can become so angry and distraught from discussing politics when ideology gets in the way of allowing individuals to be themselves without fear or repression and to enjoy the possibility of not having to struggle unnecessarily with what are basic requirements of survival. Why the anger? Because it infuriates me when someone tries to argue political logic or rethoric and simultaneously disrespecting the core rights of fellow human beings without realizing it. Thats what ideology does when its importance is inflated over the wellbeing of human beings and it’s so easy for a comfortable person to talk about broken eggs, justified inequality and other imbecillic formulations in defense of injustice and oppression. Most people i know consider me to hold no political passion, knowledge or insight because i rarely speak my mind unless someone isn’t already saying what i consider important. If my conversational partners werent so busy speaking and representing they would hear where i speak from but ploitical conversation is seldom a listening exercise as much as it is a testing, prodding and sharpening of battle skills. Or as i call it: a waste of friggin time. Often i piss people off by arguing details in definitions and asking about the implications of their words, nuancing and exploring. Most people want to talk points and importance, repeat their belief and touch base with others to see where they stand, which i think is ludicrous: we know whats important and trying to tie others together by discussion and simple reasoning would be far more productive in my opinion, so often i end up being the mediator between two people who argue because of their inability to listen. I think deprogramming of self and taking stock of what is important to ones own nature before anything else. Acting justly based on ones own principles and standars in daily situations, treating others like you wish society would treat them and generally not pandering or proselytizing while doing it. Genuine meetings before plugs. As how to stay out of the drama it is simple: keep your silence until you know if its a political discussion or an excuse to vent frustration, anxiety and fear. Unless others are willing to take a step back and consider things from more than the perspective of their own favourite opinions and why they are right, you take two steps back and let the bickering run its course, it has purpose for them but for you it will not be beneficial at all, only draining. Conflict is good, it is part of a harmonizing process and it keeps the dynamic from stagnating. Observe the yin and yang, figure out your political dao and follow it body, heart and mind. Or dont bother. Thats my opinion

I gotta say it Hands: righteous indignation don’t look good on anyone no matter on whose mandate their duty is bound. If you are a man of duty respect another who might hold the exact same conviction and dedication as you do. Taking it out on Kar3n, who holds rank by induction here whilst IN here, thats your face getting lost. Remember what you said to me about heart and faith? Yeah, thats the one.