mjjbecker

Whatever.

Eunoch, What I wrote was not based on speculation, but on direct communication with Kostas, the author of said book, and from direct experience. It is also based on things said by John Chang that I heard in person, not relayed second hand. Of course you are entitled to your opinions on various things, and I respect that. I would say my experience would tally with some, but not with others. There is no point in repeating things over and over. However, you cite a lot of conjecture, and have forgotten even some of what that claimed (the student who made quick progress-it was level 3, not level 4). As far as I am aware, I am the only student of Kostas who has commented much on forums. Sean Denty has gotten most of his information from David Verdesi, and as far as I am aware, only had a passing aqaintance with Kostas. I believe SD is sincere in his search, along with many others, so this is no criticism of him. Much of what has been said about the Mo pai training is either wrong, and/or based on insufficient information. Yes, there is some good information out there in public. It is for people to find what works for them and to go from there.

I am inclined to agree with all of this. The destined part applies to 'finding' the right teacher also though surely, if a student is destined to have a teacher? There is no 'one way'.

You are very welcome and I agree. There are other high level teachers in the public arena now, perhaps most notably Wang Liping. There are disciples of his teaching in both the US and Europe. This provides a golden opportunity for interested parties to do something, rather than just speculate. It would be nice to see some threads about 'Opening the Dragon Gate' and the information in that instead.

1. Last I heard, which is going back several years now, is no. That does not mean that no student is, or is not, capable. As far as I know, no-one has taken up the mantle. Things, as I understand, are very closed door now, so we aren't likely to get any answers. 2. It isn't 'daoist'. The school does, despite the comments made by someone here, originate from Mo Tzu. The practices do have similarities with more than one school (hardly surprising). I won't add to that (because I am not allowed to-I took an oath not to discuss the details). 3. Don't know. I think to answer this one would have to be deeply intimate with different schools and methods. Perhaps Wang Liping, given the depth of knowledge within his lineage, might be able to answer this question if he wanted to. Outside someone of his level, they would be speculating. People are entitled to speculate, but it must be remembered that it is only that in the end-speculation. 4. The Magus of Java is not a 'bible' and certain points within it were deliberately obfuscated (I know this for a fact. 'Why' is not for me to say). One point about there being one successor per generation is correct. That means, to use Hollywood parlance, 'there can be only one'. Why? Haven't a clue, but it seems to be the way of the school. Another point though, about this being a mountain practice, I have made before. Progress needs seclusion. Again, not unusual as it is the case with other traditions. Modern MP practitioners lead modern lives, which is going to make progress rather difficult. It must be remembered that for a person to actually complete level one is rare, never mind anything beyond this. For all we know, The Magus of Java could be mostly fiction. Who did what, how and when is something we have no direct experience of. So, this discussion is based on zero direct knowledge. No one here has attained 'level 4'. No one met Liao sijo. No one met this 'warlord'. No one witnessed the destruction of the village, nor has anyone provided any documentation to prove it actually happened. So, all in all just a lot of blind speculation. Something worth remembering. @ Neichuan, 'Chi Kung' or qigong, is simply a modern all encompassing term for the various different practices. This is a historically documented fact. The term was adopted by the PRC in the late 1940's. There are neigong systems labelled as qigong-something which happened when several famous teachers published books on their methods in Chinese. Regarding 'virtue', a lack of it may not restrict someones ability to do neigong. That does not mean that said practitioners are 'released' from the consequences of their actions. They may have 'escaped' rebirth, but they will not have escaped answering for their actions. I'm not speculating here. The significance of virtue is very, very real. I emphasise this for the benefit of those reading this, and also for the benefit of innocents who may be hurt as a result of misconceived beliefs. EVERYONE answers for their actions. John Chang stopped doing treatments for good reason (the details of which are no one else's business). He has held back his own progression in order to help many people. It would be nice if people didn't attack the reputation of a good man, given most have had little or no direct contact with the man. If people don't know the truth from direct sources, they don't know the truth. Leave the man be.

http://www.kalarippayatt.co.uk/2010/index.php

I think there is some talking at cross purposes. No one is saying the classics are bad. What we are saying is that: 1. They are very difficult to translate correctly. 2. Without direct experience of the practices mentioned, one cannot appreciate the actual meanings. 3. Very few people have that direct experience, and it seems non of the translators. Esoteric texts were written as an aide memoire for students under direct instruction by teachers who had completed the level of training being written about. This was a practice used widely, and can still be encountered in some of the Japanese koryu. However, the descriptions were deliberately vague, so as to prevent outsiders from being able to get anything useful should they aquire these texts. Look at some of the opinions of koryu instructors regarding various translations of 'A Book of Five Rings'. These opinions vary between contempt and derision. Why? Because anyone not intimate with the correct application of Japanese swordwork has not a hope of graping the correct meaning of what is being said. This applies across the board. First must come experience. From this experience one gains the realisation that allows them to understand the texts. FWIW, Michael Lomax has one of the best lineages in such things most people are likely to find. Not only that, by being able to start the one true seed, he can do something the vast majority of qigong instructors cannot do. Those that can are usually very particular about who they help. If ML was Chinese, chose to use arcane language, and did the silk robes thing, people would be kicking his door down for instruction. Far too many value appearance over substance. Their loss.

It's called a relevent opinion based on direct experience. That is something I realise you know little to nothing about.

Absolutely. But there will always be a lot of 'opinion', especially from people who have no direct experience of things and have never spent any meaningful time in China/Asia/'at the source'. Oh well. Unfortunately, the translations are inaccurate at times, the translators lacking direct experience of what they are trying to describe. Add to that most Chinese people also lack the direct experience, so outside of direct instruction from someone who knows...

Unfortunately there already is. Prostitution is rife here. There is nothing subtle about it's promotion either. There are young women-and men-doing this to pay their way through university. There are those from the countryside working in 'massage parlours' and KTV fronts. It is not a great place to be poor and lacking in connections-but look at the US of A, the Kennedy's or the Bush's, and you can find nepotism and cronyism anywhere. You'll also find students doing the same to pay for their educations. Aside from that, having lived in China for several years now, I can say that most parents I've observed-rich or poor-are very affectionate towards their children-be they male or female. Like any country, China isn't perfect. However, it isn't the hole that many in the West seem intent on portraying it as. Everywhere has it's work cut out, particularly the financially and spiritually bankrupt Western nations. As for the 'Book of Songs', while there is some resurgence in interest in the traditional culture here, people are more concerned with practical things. Go into a bookshop here and take a look in the business and investment sections-which are huge in the large shops. Every notable Western author translated, along with books by local experts. One final point. Teaching in a college I get to observe 18-21 year olds day in, day out. The young ladies are certainly not downtrodden, dressed in rags and under the thumbs of their boyfriends. There is no lack of women in senior positions within the staff either. Perfect? No, but not worse than what I've seen in the West.(The educational standards are another matter, but that is for a different thread).

It's all been discussed to death more than once. What Trunk said. There are mistakes in some of Chia's books. There are a lot of stories regarding people injuring themselves using practices from these books (and I've noticed this over a period of more than ten years). I have seen and tried some of his stuff, and I know that was wrong (not just from the personal experience of practice, but also comparing it to direct instruction from an authentic lineage holding instructor). You want good instruction? Really, I would say a teacher is strongly recommended. The KAP course by Santiago would be one recommendation-and can be done online. Go and see Michael Lomax and do 'Stillness Movement' neigong. Using the search function and reading these teachers comments will show you why I recommend them (particularly Michael Lomax's comments regarding 'retention'). I suspect saving up the money and attending a seminar by either would be well worth the effort. If you want books and such like, Spring Forest, Chu's Nei Kung and Eternal Spring are good. There are DVD's also. Build your qi and your health. Find a nice person if you haven't already and get laid when the mood takes you both. And smile. Enjoy life. This fixation on retention really is beyond me...

Oh yes. Hatsumi of the Bujinkan summed it up best when he said 'keep going'. Sometimes it is all you can do amidst the pain, doubts and barriers that will appear. Kostas once observed that it took either a profound love of God or deep hatred to keep going with this kind of training. I think you simply have to be compelled from within. That it is part of you to keep going, keep doing, simply because you can't do anything else.

Pull your abdomen in-it will lift your testicles, unless you have a hernia (hense the old medical test of 'coughing' while the doctor touched the scrotum). If health is your primary aim then ditch the Mantak Chia stuff. Why? Because some of the practices really need an instructor to guide you. Otherwise, you run the risk of wasting your time or even causing injury to yourself. If I remember correctly the books do state that an instructor is needed. The Spring Forest Fundamentals course would be a good alternative: http://springforestqigong.com/instructional_tools.htm Or, the Eternal Spring qigong course: http://www.chutaichi.com/onlinestore/eternalspringdvd.html

No, but your ego seems pricked by the comment. You might want to try and follow your own interpretation of the sage's advice and attempt to look dispassionately and without taking sides. Look at what is being said, rather than look at it as a 'challenge' to your ego. For the record, the observation is based on what people with some level of attainment have said. Nowhere do I state I have, or have not, reached some meaningful level. That you react in the way you do-seeing different viewpoints as a challenge-suggests you are finding it difficult to follow the advice laid out in this text. So we come back to the issue of experience vs book learning and the example I mentioned earlier of Wang Liping. One can read and intellectualise all one wants. It is not the same, or equal to, attaining real understanding-attainment-of the wisdom contained within. Reading and books alone will not do the job. Both Western and Eastern schools followed the practice of initiation, direct instruction and secret spoken guidance. The texts produced by such schools provide little insight if a person has not had the guidance and managed to get to the level where they can truly understand and appreciate the teachings. This applies to works such as 'The Book of Five Rings' or 'The Art of War' also. They may have sold millions of copies, but the vast majority of reads simply aren't grasping what the author was saying. Or, to give a more contemporary example, millions of people bought Stephen Hawkin's book 'A Brief History of Time', but perhaps a mere handful truly grasp what he was saying in the book at his level. Not to say they may not have gained some useful insight, but their level of understanding is on a very different level. The enthusiastic amateur may believe differently though. A true story. There was an eminent professor of physics sitting on a plane reading Hawkin's book. The person sitting next to him noticed this and, having read the book, asked if the professor was enjoying it. The professor responded that it was interesting but that he was having difficulty understanding a certain point. The other person then happily decided to explain this point to the professor, oblivious to the fact of who he was talking to. Also oblivious to the fact his grasp of the subject was nowhere near the level of the person he was trying to explain this to. The advice of impartiality and being dispassionate is fundamental in learning. Why? Because it allows one to let go of attachment to viewpoints and the emotions that go with them. If learning and understanding is a fluid process, being attached to a viewpoint will hinder that learning. If we are attached and emotional, we end up burning and torturing people because they disagree with our knowing the world is flat. We shy away from travelling beyond 28 miles per hour because everyone knows you will suffocate if you go faster than this. We kill someone in a fight because they said some small thing that did not matter, but was clearly a challenge to our status within the pack. So, I maintain this is not the same as 'not giving a shit'. You are free to disagree. I presumed you posted your comments because you did indeed want a discussion. Such things can't always be circle jerks. Here of all places people like to express their viewpoints. That is all they are though. Viewpoints. No need to become attached to them, and if we find we have a particularly strong response to one, then it may be a good opportunity to examine ourselves and ask why. While I may not agree with you, I do respect the fact you are here, and so like others here, myself included, you are actually seeking some insight into life. Be well and keep going. The more heated the debate, the more potential for getting something useful from it.

I would recommend the purchase-or at least the use online-of a good English dictionary. The Cambridge one is a good choice. Why? Because there seems to be some confusion over the English definitions here, never mind the Chinese ones. Since when does not taking sides and making decisions not based on emotions equal 'not giving a shit'? Apathy, perhaps does, but I don't recall any mention of the good sage being apathetic. Here is what you wrote, with the words impartial and dispassionate replaced by their meanings in plain and simple language: The universe is not influenced by emotions It regards all things without favoring one or another The sage is also not influenced by emotions He regards all people without favoring one or another Regardless of translation though, I don't believe anyone can truly 'get' what these writings mean without a high level of attainment. There is a reference to such things on Ken's Longmen Pai blog, where Wang Liping's interpretation was somewhat at a different level to the learned, but non-attained, scholars. Or to put it another way:

I think we pretty much agree on most things. By all means have a dig at those who justify it (though they are usually the least likely to take on board useful advice). I always find that generalisations are an unwise-and limited-viewpoint though. It is also dogmatic behaviour in action. I'd rather see each person and situation for what it is. As for the need to control and dominate, that is the primate in us, rather than the rational. Think of it as the 'angry chimp' syndrome. We get to observe a lot of it around here at times.

I played some video footage of 'Barracuda', along with other Heart tracks like 'Magic Man' for some of my students a while back. One of them commented on Friday how much they liked the songs. I've always liked the songs, and for all the greatness of LZ, I couldn't sit and watch Jimmy, Robert and co all day like I could the Wilson sisters...

Indeed. Is that not the measure of science? Experimentation. Many different energy workers throughout the ages were undoubtedly scientists. They tested hypotheses and observed the outcomes. Neither. Dogmatic thinking within both has been the problem. Dogmatic thinking in any field of endeavour or study is detrimental.

http://www.amazon.com/Lords-Finance-Bankers-Broke-World/dp/0143116800/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272281986&sr=1-1 A good book, well worth reading.

http://www.whfoods.org/ http://drfuhrman.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Sedona-Method-Happiness-Emotional-Well-Being/dp/0971933413/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272076166&sr=8-1

For anyone seeking 'powers', I recommend the '5 whys' exercise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Whys Try and be honest with yourself. The answers may not be what you want to see, but they will be invaluable if you allow them to be. As far as John Chang goes, I think I am the only person who has posted here that has actually met him (please correct me if I am wrong) and spent time around the man. That said, I don't feel qualified to say what his intentions were/are, or to pass judgement on him. It is a shame that so many seek to form opinions based on no direct personal experience of the man. That goes for the nay sayers as well as the yay sayers. The 'demonstrations' do of course look like they are 'set-up'. That is because they are edited video clips. People can, and will, chose to believe what they want, based on their own personal experience. Experience is the thing here, and it really therefore matters little what anyone else says or claims. Non of that matters though. Finding your own place and purpose in life does. In a nutshell, try to understand 'to what purpose do I seek these things?' Finding the correct purpose for you and peace of mind matter. 'Powers' and such like are simply static. Why are you seeking to concentrate on the static at the expense of the music?

The different catagories probably apply to most people at various times. It's part of being human. The 'problem' though isn't the post, the person posting but being attached to a particular world view and following the perfectly natural 'angry chimp' response (hardwired into all of us). Attachment. Let go of the attachment to a post/thread. Goodbye problem. The world/people are what they are. Refusing to accept this (I'm not saying be apathetic or defeatist-just accept things how they are, even while trying to change/improve them) will lead to the various emotional responses. This isn't good or bad, it just is. Any Marcus Aurelius fans? The Meditations are well worth reading if you haven't already. This quote seems very apt here though: His comments about man and our response to our fellow humans are very appropriate also. Copies of his work can be downloaded for free online. I'll just add one more quote here: Lofty words but worth aspiring to, for me anyhow. In the meantime, how to cope? Read the 'offending' post, maybe even compose a response to let out the emotional build-up, then repeat the following mantra enough times to release: Ah fuck it Fuck it Fuck it Fuck it Fuck it ... The power symbol, ! , may also be used if need be. Once the emotional charge has been released, (particularly any urge to verbally smite the offending inferior intellect- i.e. once you've managed to get the fuck over your own sense of self importance) decide if it is worth replying or not. Often it is better just to delete it and move on. More than words though, find that method of practice that allows you to let go and just 'be'. What use are any 'powers'-qi, magic, intellect or otherwise-without the gift of peace of mind anyway?